Advocacy & Safety - Is it more dangerous to ride on the road or to hug a bear?

I just watched an interesting film called Grizzly Man (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/). I started a thread about it in books and movies (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=163757) but I soon realized that there is a relationship between this film and cycling.

In the documentary, Tim Treadwell lives with bears in Alaska for 15 seasons before he is eventually eaten by one of them. It is a very stirring film, that really caused me to think about the relationship between real danger and perceived danger.

Many people were interviewed in the film and said he got what he deserved. I pretty much agree, because I think living with Bears and walking among them is very dangerous. But I never lived with them for 15 years. So what do I know?

I also know a lot of people that don't ride and consider cycling very dangerous. Some are even in my own family. It is scary to watch people simplify a person's death by saying they got what they deserved. Sure it seems like Tim Treadwell deserved to be eaten by bears to you and me. However we didn't spend thousands and thousands of harmless hours with the bears either.

Much like spending thousands of hours on a bike before a motorist takes what used to be your safe and healthy acivity and turns it into something that appears foolish and dangerous. It just takes the one incident and your legacy can be tarnished forever. Like i stated in the other thread, it is very scary to think of people speaking publicly (or privately for that matter) about you and saying you got what you deserved because you were being foolish.

I know that most people wouldn't say this about a cyclist, but don't kid yourself. I bet you can think of someone right now that would probably say that about you if you were killed. I can think of a few in my own family that might. For some reason, the thought of that is far more frightening than the thought of being killed.

In many ways they are similar. Bears and cars are both so much bigger than you are that if they want to hurt you then you have little chance.

BUT:

I have never heard of a motorist deciding (rightly or wrongly) that a cyclist was a danger to her cub (child) and taking action on it.

YET:

It does seem that somes a motorist decides that cyclists are invading their turf and taking action on it.

There is one other thing that is rather similar, but not exact. With bears it can depend a lot on the kind of bear. Fooling with Grizzlys is just stupid. They take down Elks for food. A man would make a nice snack. The kind of bears in the lower 48 are entirely different. It might be rather similar as to the kind of roads one rides. I sure would consider riding in the main lanes of a freeway dangerous (a nice wide shoulder is a different story).

Perhaps one could even consider the drivers in different parts of the U.S. differetn kinds of bears. Some fairly safe, others pretty dangerous.

I think the statistics of people who ride on the road and live is much better than the people who live among bears and live. At least the statistics I have seen say that on average cycling is a safe activity.

Several years ago I went to Laramie WY with a friend to see Tim Treadwell talk about the bears he was studying. It was an interesting talk, he seemed a bit eccentric, but he felt very passionate about the bears, perhaps similiar to the way some of us cyclists feel about our sport..... maybe he tought the risks he took were worth it to him.

Maybe this explains why bears only ride bicycles in tents on ropes high above the ground.

Maybe this question should have been a poll.

So far, when bears see me coming they run.

Cars don't usually see me coming.

The kind of bears in the lower 48 are entirely different.
The black bears found in California (Yosemite), Oregon, etc. are relatively harmless, but the browns/grizzlies in Wyoming (Yellowstone) and Montana (Glacier) have been known to "snack" on humans all too often.

The black bears found in California (Yosemite), Oregon, etc. are relatively harmless, but the browns/grizzlies in Wyoming (Yellowstone) and Montana (Glacier) have been known to "snack" on humans all too often.

Sorry, my bad, forgot about the grizzly population in Montana. Also agree on the relatively. Actually on the one hand I've seen black bears put up with quite a lot from humans. On the other I've also seen their strength. If you get a black bear angry you are apt to die or at least be hurt very badly.

I think this is a question of education and experience. I've hiked in Grizzly country in Alaska, but I was prepared and didn't go hiking towards the one grizzly I did see. Same as when most of us ride, stay out of the door zones, don't aggravate aggressive drivers, etc. A better analogy to hugging a bear would be riding on an urban interstate. Though I think the OP is right that many folks would consider riding in any traffic analogous to poking a bear and that we will all eventually get what is coming to us. It's pretty sad.

Heard a talk at my advocacy group's agm by a Tierra del Fuego - Alaska rider. Leaving aside the headwind for the first 1000 miles, he was advised to make a noise while travelling thro' bear country in the mountains so that they would hear him and move away.

Didn't quite work when he was doing about 45/50mph down off the Rockies and found a grizzly mother bear and cub(s) in front of him as he rounded a bend. Decided not to make a noise and zipped through the group. Said he left brick-shaped objects behind him for next few hundred yards

Living among bears is just like practicing vehicular cycling. Sure, you take all the precautions and behave in what you think is a safe and predictable way but all it takes is one miscalculation by either you or a driver and only then you realise just what the difference is between a 150 - 300lb human body on a bike at 15 - 25 mph, and a 2500 - 3000 lb vehichle at 45+ mph, but then it's too late.

Maybe this explains why bears only ride bicycles in tents on ropes high above the ground.


:lol: it must be !!

From what I read Tim Treadwell had more in common with daredevils than scientists. To make a bike analogy, he's like a kid riding his bmx off a roof. I would much rather be compared to any of the nameless but non-eaten bear researchers that take proper safety precautions.

From what I read Tim Treadwell had more in common with daredevils than scientists. To make a bike analogy, he's like a kid riding his bmx off a roof. I would much rather be compared to any of the nameless but non-eaten bear researchers that take proper safety precautions.

Good reply.

I think the statistics of people who ride on the road and live is much better than the people who live among bears and live. At least the statistics I have seen say that on average cycling is a safe activity.

I think a sample size of one for the "people living with bears" poll is a bit low.

I mean, 15 years seems like a good amount of time out there without getting killed. And it just so happens that the average is now 15 years. So if the average person plays with bears, they could statistically expect to spend an accumulated 15 years doing so before getting killed. Nothing to worry about, right?

Grizzly Man, a Werner Herzog film, i think. What if Aguirre had to deal with bears :) (did he?)

I try to stay out of the bear zone!

I've run into two bear so far while bicycling, a black bear this year out in the way-backwoods of the Olympic peninsula, and a big brown sow in Montana once... I just started whoopin and hollering to clear the track. They've been less trouble than traffic for me personally so far.

There have actually been bear sightings in Iowa in recent years...mountain lions, too. I reckon the hogs outta watch out.

How about hugging a bear in traffic?

I think a sample size of one for the "people living with bears" poll is a bit low.

I mean, 15 years seems like a good amount of time out there without getting killed. And it just so happens that the average is now 15 years. So if the average person plays with bears, they could statistically expect to spend an accumulated 15 years doing so before getting killed. Nothing to worry about, right?

Yeah, I guess 100% of people who lived with bears in our study died doesn't sound as impressive if you say there was only 1 person in the study.

Personally I have a lot more experience cycling than living with bears so I guess my "gut" feeling is cycling is safer as cycling actually gives you a health benefit. I suppose living with bears could give you a health benefit to come too think of it depending on how fast you could run. :)

It's more dangerous to hug a bear riding in the road.

Was the bear taking the whole lane? Bears have rights too!!

Was he a VBC? (vehicular bear cyclist) not to be confused with a bare vehicular cyclist. That sounds dangerous too. :)

I suppose living with bears could give you a health benefit to come too think of it depending on how fast you could run. :)

Reminds me of the two guys that were camping in Yosemite one time. A huge Grizzly came rolling into their camp with hardly any warning. One of the guys immediately reached into his tent and pulled out his tennis shoes. The other guy said, "what the hell are you doing? You can't outrun that bear." He looked up and said, " I don't have to. All I have to do is outrun you!"

Here's what we do with bears in WI. A friend of mine shot this in Sept., her first bear 535 Lb

There have actually been bear sightings in Iowa in recent years...mountain lions, too. I reckon the hogs outta watch out.

The real deal Lions will be returning to Iowa City but not until Nov 8, 2008. Mark that date down; the Lions will be looking to feast on Iowa Hawks.

Here's what we do with bears in WI. A friend of mine shot this in Sept., her first bear 535 Lb
Was there supposed to be a picture or was this a polar bear? In which case hunting at the zoo can get you in big trouble :):):).

Was there supposed to be a picture or was this a polar bear? In which case hunting at the zoo can get you in big trouble :):):).

It wouldn't let me post a html doc. so I had to send it from home from work try again.

I heard that if you're hiking (or biking) in grizzly country, that you should attach numerous tiny bells to your clothing, so the bears will hear you coming.

I've also heard that you should be on the alert for grizzly bear signs along the trail, such as pawprints, trees where they have sharpened their claws, or poop. Grizzly bear poop is easy to identify: it has lots of tiny bells in it.






:)

I don't know the full story but the summary I heard was that Treadwell was eaten by a bear that had joined the group and was not used to him. I guess this can be a good analogy to road cycling too. Sometimes the most dangerous drivers on the road are simply dangerous for cyclists not because they're malicious but simply because they're not used to dealing with having cyclists on the road. The interesting thing is that this also holds true for cycling with cyclists and is why a new person attempting to join a foreign paceline is often viewed with suspicion. The uncertainty factour lends itself to producing a dangerous situation.

On yesterday's ride down the east side of Lake Washington in the greater Seattle area, I scoped a SUV sitting on the side of the road. I always keep a close eye on this type of vehicle, watching for driver cues as to what they are going to do- and saw the driver & passsenger were pouring over a B&W field manual with big sketches of bears in it- I theorize they were on the job and checking out suburban bears or a scavenger bear's habitat.

I think bicyclists run an increasing chance of running into bears in suburbia that encroaches wilderness areas. Bear are showing up for the scavenge like racoons' overgrown country cousins. I've only run into them out in the sticks, but bears like subdivisions and garbage cans.

When asked if it is more dangerous to ride on the road or hug a bear, I would have to say that it's difficult to answer the question by comparing the two by their risks.

Granted, there are numerous hazards and risks while riding on the road. After some of the incidents I've encountered with some of them, I'm lucky to be alive and uninjured.

However, spending time or encountering bears also carries the possibility of injury or death. Once, while having stopped along the road outside the backwoods town of New Vineyard, ME, a baby black bear came out of the woods, crossed the road, and disappeared into the woods again. Shortly thereafter, its mother appeared and followed in the same direction. Either she didn't notice me and/or didn't pick up my scent.

On another long ride, however, another man was attacked and injured by a full grown black bear at a rest stop near a section of woods.

So my point is this: I don't think it's more dangerous to be riding the roads and get run down by someone driving a car than it is to spend time around bears and get attacked.

When I first saw the thread title, I was sure this thread was intended as a parody of the "safer on the freeway, or by bike?" thread.

Both titles reminded me of pseudo-joke my friends and I used to tell to see whether someone was genuinely cool: "Is it faster to Chicago, or by train?"

We'd all laugh. If the new person laughed along with us, we knew they were just a kiss***. Cool people always said "huh?" or "I don't get it" or something.

Anyway in my opinion, it's probably safer on a bike, than hugging a bear or driving on the freeway. And it's probably faster by train.
:rofl:

I think the stats show that one is more likely to be shot by a (untrained, careless, drunk) bear/deer 'hunter' in brown/black bear areas than be killed by a bear itself. The best safety gear in bear country is not a weapon, but orange clothes.

Al

I think bicyclists run an increasing chance of running into bears in suburbia that encroaches wilderness areas. Bear are showing up for the scavenge like racoons' overgrown country cousins. I've only run into them out in the sticks, but bears like subdivisions and garbage cans.

They also like beer (http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2004-08-18-beer-bear_x.htm). Last year, they tried to lure a bear that was spotted in my neighbourhood by placing Krispy Kreme donuts in the trap-cage.

They also like beer (http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2004-08-18-beer-bear_x.htm). Last year, they tried to lure a bear that was spotted in my neighbourhood by placing Krispy Kreme donuts in the trap-cage.
Warning! Stereotype being posted:

What kind of "bears" were the donuts meant to lure?

Warning! Stereotype being posted:

What kind of "bears" were the donuts meant to lure?

:roflmao:

I think the stats show that one is more likely to be shot by a (untrained, careless, drunk) bear/deer 'hunter' in brown/black bear areas than be killed by a bear itself. The best safety gear in bear country is not a weapon, but orange clothes.

Al


that's probably the truth, although it's still pretty slim.

Three hunters died and 10 others suffered injuries as a result of hunting accidents during the nine-day gun deer hunt. This is WI 2005 with 642,000 license sold. Most were self inflicted

and the last time an individual was mauled by a bear in Wisconsin was....?

and the last time an individual was mauled by a bear in Wisconsin was....?


August 1999 http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/ce/news/rbnews/1999/990813co.htm

I spend many hours walking the woods grouse hunting or sitting deer hunting in bear country here and have in fact seen more wolves than bear in these travels. I might add have been attacked by neither.