I live car free and ...

[Helmet Head]

I'm just curious about the basic demographics of car-free folks.

Please respond to this poll only if you live car-free.

[Cadd]

One of your choice should be "poor". There are lots of poor people who cycle because they have to due to their financial situation. I guess if they're poor, they won't have internet access and can't post on BF.....errrrr, I guess you can ignore my post. I'm car-free 20 - 25 days out of the month, so does that count?

[pedex]

define "poor"-------pretty relative isnt it?

[Cadd]

To me poor = living on foodstamps. If you have a job, you're not poor.

[Helmet Head]

What I assume "living car free" means that you don't own a car and don't use one for day-to-day life. If you rent one for vacations or during business trips, that's different. But for your own day-to-day life, if you ever use a car to get to work, take your kids to school, go out, visit (local) friends, get to class, go shopping, etc., you're not living "car free" as far as I'm concerned.

[smurfy]

HH,

I think I'm now car-free. Yes, we DO own a car, but it got totalled last spring and is sitting our garage wrecked and is not currently registered, but can still be driven. Right rear wheel is at an angle (it got hit broadside) so I don't want to drive it like that anyway unless an emergency comes up. I think I'm in car "purgatory"! :D

[timmhaan]

no offense to anyone, but how can anyone consider themselves "car free" if they own a car? i agree there are varying degrees of car usuage, and i applaud anyone who strives to drive less, but if you own one then you own one.

[Platy]

Don't own a car, widower, 1 adult son living with me, semiretired (no job, occasional consulting), not a student.

[weed eater]

My partner and I are car free since '03. No kids (yet), but, as I tell my parents...we're working on it. We moved to Portland in October because it seemed like a place where living car free and raising kids would be not just feasible but pleasant. There are numerous car-free families here (we've even met some of them! hi todd!) and, well, actually, Portland rules.

We both work at home, which helps a lot, and which is by design.

I realized yesterday that I have been angling to live car-free for pretty much my entire adult life. More consciously and successfully in the past several years, but there's always been an aspect of my decision-making that has kept me close to my work, and in urban areas where I can do most/all things with bikes or transit. So, in other words, it took about 16 years of planning for me to finally make the break. Would have happened faster if I'd had a partner who was into it, earlier on. But I think about all that time, and all that gradual planning, in contrast to so many of the stories I read in the press about people who impulsively try to quit driving, even though they live 20 miles from a grocery store and have never ridden a bike for anything but recreation. Anyone reading this who is trying to make the change, just remember, it takes a lot of time and adjustment, and the more gradually you do it, the better prepared and happier you will be.

We went to rent a giant dehumidifier this morning with our bike trailer. I get an immense amount of pleasure from hauling this stuff around on my own power. It's probably similar to what people get from snowboarding, and rock climbing, and stuff. It's a challenge, it's exciting, and you have to be careful and engage your skill and intellect. Seems like we get enough action for our daily lives that we don't have a desire to go "out into the wilderness" very much. Also, there's all that driving involved.

[Roody]

One of your choice should be "poor". There are lots of poor people who cycle because they have to due to their financial situation. I guess if they're poor, they won't have internet access and can't post on BF.....errrrr, I guess you can ignore my post. I'm car-free 20 - 25 days out of the month, so does that count?
A lot of people who don't own computers access the internet for free at the library. I do the same, even though I am by no means "poor."

[Roody]

What I assume "living car free" means that you don't own a car and don't use one for day-to-day life. If you rent one for vacations or during business trips, that's different. But for your own day-to-day life, if you ever use a car to get to work, take your kids to school, go out, visit (local) friends, get to class, go shopping, etc., you're not living "car free" as far as I'm concerned.
I trust you HH, so I gladly answered the poll, but I'm curious. What's your purpose here?

[Cadd]

Roody, I hope I didn't offend you. My post certainly wasn't meant to offend anyone. I didn't mean that no internet access = poor automatically. I was trying to say that a lot of people cannot afford an automobile, and their only form of transportation is by bike (or public transportation if available).

[Mtn Mike]

A lot of people in my area are car-free because they're poor. Some ride bikes, some walk, and some ride the bus. What’s the difference? Given that this is bikeforums.net, and given the demographic typical on this forum, I am guessing that most people reading this forum are interested in being car free for reasons other than simply being too poor to own a car. Almost definitely, those people DO NOT CARE about this forum. I am guessing the top two reasons people here are car-free are 1)because they like to bike, and 2)because they like being car free (not because they have to be). I could be wrong, but this whole discussion about poor people seems beyond the point.

edit...also, I find the results of the poll interesting because it almost proves my point above. In my experience, most people who are too poor to own cars are usually single parents with too many kids, or the unemployed (or unemployable). Being car-free makes more sense for single working people (like myself), and students, but not as many of us practice this in the real world outside of bikeforums.net .

[becnal]

Interesting poll. I'm eager to see the results. I hope a large number of people participate.

[2wheeledsoul]

Car free and always have been. I've never wanted a car, and wouldn't take it if it was given to me. I'm frugal like Scrooge, and work like a dog. I'm sick of bad air. Corperate greed, oil gluttony, and terrorism piss me off royally - and yes, the three are linked; the gas junkies have no idea of the true cost of their addiction.

I urge all lurkers to make the change. Kick the gas habit, break the chains of car slavery, and don't buy the terrorists any more ammo. It's not as hard as you think.

[closetbiker]

I didn't vote in the poll because I do own a car but I am interested in the demographics of the ones that are car free.

I agree there should be a choice for "too poor to afford a car" and that there are many who are car free that don't have a computer or take part in bikeforums.net.

I try to do as many errands on the bike as possible, but outside of my commuting, I only do about 1 bike errand a week. I attribute this to having a family. It isn't suprising to me that the large majority of car free people don't have families. Just about every errand I do in my car, I do with a family member, and many of the car trips I make involve a long distance or heavy load that would make it undesirable to do on a bike.

At least I've managed to reduce my driving by 25% due to bike commuting, and I almost never am in a single occupant vehicle. :)

[jamesdenver]

To me poor = living on foodstamps. If you have a job, you're not poor.

100% wrong. many families have 4-5 jobs between parents and are barely hovering above the poverty line with no savings and a thread away from financial ruin

yes some of this is caused by poor life choices, but often situations arise from health problems, (lack of insurance), layoffs, and once your treading water, especially with kids, it's extremely hard to keep your head above.

read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" or "The Working Poor"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0375408908/002-7060009-8545620?v=glance&n=283155

[2wheeledsoul]

It isn't suprising to me that the large majority of car free people don't have families.

I mark it down to the "40-yr-old virgin" syndrome. You can be rolling in cash, crap diamonds, and have gold chains hanging on you like Mr. T, and all the ladies see is a loser on the bike. Between biolegy and consumerist brainwashing, they just don't get it. My exs never did. Oh well, their loss.

[Dimkick]

I had a car once...that didn't go too well...Then I bought a moped off line, that got 700 some miles to it and died...it is time for a bike I thought...yes, a bike...like a good horse for his master!

I am 21 in 4 days, a student, who will ride a bike everywhere I go...hopefully I can get a new, good one..a road bike. I am planning a x-country trip across the states one way, and fly the other.
Anyone want to buy my moped?

[Mtn Mike]

I mark it down to the "40-yr-old virgin" syndrome. You can be rolling in cash, crap diamonds, and have gold chains hanging on you like Mr. T, and all the ladies see is a loser on the bike. Between biolegy and consumerist brainwashing, they just don't get it. My exs never did. Oh well, their loss.

Ahhm, I don't think being car free will make any of us "40 year old virgins" I think you have the logic in reverse...It's just easier to be car free without a family. Family people generally have more responsibilities as far as travel goes....i.e, hauling the kids to school, buying daipers, emergency Dr.s apts for kids,...

[closetbiker]

..It's just easier to be car free without a family. Family people generally have more responsibilities as far as travel goes....i.e, hauling the kids to school, buying daipers, emergency Dr.s apts for kids,...

That's the way I see it. As a matter of fact, a big part my motivation to ride my bike to work over 20 years ago was that my new born daughter was very sick and my wife needed the car to be at the hospital with her (along with my 3 year old son). I took the bike to work because it was better for everybody. Bike commuting was the silver lining in the cloud. We have never needed a second car.

[Cadd]

100% wrong.[/url]
You're 100% wrong! Read my post again.....the key word is "To me". To me, Strawberry icecream is disgusting. To me, green is ulgy. To me, 150lbs is fat. To me, going 12mph is fast. Remember the key word is "to me". It's my opinion. Opinions can't be wrong.

Btw, I read The Working Poor. But thanks for the recommendation. After reading that, I immediately read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad", "Who moved my cheese" & other various financial advice books to inspire me.

[Fillanzea]

A lot of people in my area are car-free because they're poor. Some ride bikes, some walk, and some ride the bus. What’s the difference? Given that this is bikeforums.net, and given the demographic typical on this forum, I am guessing that most people reading this forum are interested in being car free for reasons other than simply being too poor to own a car. Almost definitely, those people DO NOT CARE about this forum. I am guessing the top two reasons people here are car-free are 1)because they like to bike, and 2)because they like being car free (not because they have to be). I could be wrong, but this whole discussion about poor people seems beyond the point.

edit...also, I find the results of the poll interesting because it almost proves my point above. In my experience, most people who are too poor to own cars are usually single parents with too many kids, or the unemployed (or unemployable). Being car-free makes more sense for single working people (like myself), and students, but not as many of us practice this in the real world outside of bikeforums.net .

I don't think you can draw that sharp a line between people who are car-free because they're poor and people who are car-free because they like cycling or for ideological reasons. I think it's more complicated than that.

Personally, I can't afford a car, and that's kind of a drag. It means I haven't been to my church in a couple months--it has only evening services, and with two broken bones this year, I'm nervous to ride in the dark. There's only one movie theater in a five-mile radius, so I usually take the bus for two hours if there's a movie I really want to see. I am really, really weak, so I don't have the range of movement that stronger car-free people have; three or four miles is just about my limit for daily travel. So I don't get to go to the mall as often as I like, or to a good bookstore, and forget about it if I need to buy a microwave or a vacuum cleaner. And I hate walking to the laundromat. I look like a very poor dork, carrying my clothes across the highway.
But, at the same time, I like being car-free in that I can't imagine that those inconveniences above are justification for me to spend 5 or 6 thousand dollars a year in buying and maintaining a car. For that kind of money, I could get a piano or a decent bike or a new bookcase or a new computer. And I agree with a lot of car-free people ideologically; cars are unpleasant, and I hate that urban design in a lot of places makes it hard to live car-free. I probably will stay car-free if I can manage it even if my financial situation does improve--but I'm likely to move to someplace where I can go to the megaplex or Borders on a Saturday or Sunday, or the temptation to buy a car will be too strong. ;)

[2wheeledsoul]

Family people generally have more responsibilities as far as travel goes....i.e, hauling the kids to school, buying daipers, emergency Dr.s apts for kids,...

When you put it that way, I can almost agree with you. However...
- WTF is wrong with kids taking the bus? Most schools run a bus service.
- What, you can't stuff a pack of huggies or two in the panniers?
- Dial 911. The doctors come to you! Ahh, the magic of modern communications.

Parenting is only overly complicated when you make it so. Use the grey stuff under your helmet, and you can make just about anything work. :D

[BenyBen]

I voted "none of the above" since I am not married, but I have been living with the lady of my life for 8 years now, and in about 2 months I will be a father.

Up until now my initial choice of being car free stands, and because I have been carless forever, I am allready making choices and decisions based on that fact. I think that being carfree with kids is undesirable only if you create situations that make it so. Of course I could be wrong and I'll know in a couple of years no doubt. But, as a kid my family was car-free, and no problems couldn't be solved without a little ingenuity...

A lot of it has to do with attitude. Things that look like chores to other people end up becoming a fun part of your day to those used to it.

[af895]

Unmarried, no kids.

I support myself through contract work - aviation consulting & graphic design.

I'm looking for a 9-5er but doubt I'd get another car if I got such a job as we have public transit from heaven here and I can borrow the roomie's car in emergencies.

Unlimited bus use costs what insurance on the car cost without any maintenance, fuel etc.
I'd rather put the money into other things, like bicycle related gear. :)
A lot of people I know locally don't have cars for exactly those reasons.

[Mtn Mike]

When you put it that way, I can almost agree with you. However...
- WTF is wrong with kids taking the bus? Most schools run a bus service.
- What, you can't stuff a pack of huggies or two in the panniers?
- Dial 911. The doctors come to you! Ahh, the magic of modern communications.

Parenting is only overly complicated when you make it so. Use the grey stuff under your helmet, and you can make just about anything work. :D

I'm not saying that it is impossible to be car free with kids. My point was that it is a lot easier to be car free without kids.

[2wheeledsoul]

I'm not saying that it is impossible to be car free with kids. My point was that it is a lot easier to be car free without kids.
I get the point, Mike.
Easy... it all has to be easy, instant, must have it now. No wonder your average American is over 20% overweight, stressed out, burned out, rushing around and tripping over themselves trying to do a million things at once, while being damned helpless, reliant on a polluting hunk of steel, dependant on the flammable product made from dead dinosaurs, and looking for the goverment to hold their wussy little hands. :rolleyes:
How in the world did ppl raise kids before the invention of the eternal confusion engine? I seriously doubt parents were such lazy wimps then, or else the human race would've been as dead as dinosaurs well before the curse of the car.

Thank you.

[Mtn Mike]

I get the point, Mike.
Easy... it all has to be easy, instant, must have it now. No wonder your average American is over 20% overweight, stressed out, burned out, rushing around and tripping over themselves trying to do a million things at once, while being damned helpless, reliant on a polluting hunk of steel, dependant on the flammable product made from dead dinosaurs, and looking for the goverment to hold their wussy little hands. :rolleyes:
How in the world did ppl raise kids before the invention of the eternal confusion engine? I seriously doubt parents were such lazy wimps then, or else the human race would be as dead as dinosaurs well before the curse of the car.

Thank you.

LOL at your rant. All true of course. The path of least resistance, the American Way.

[af895]

2wheeledsoul,

Prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine, neighborhoods were planned so you COULD get around by foot, bicycle, horse, whatever.

I'm a Canadian who's lived in Europe and the US and travelled to 30+ countries to date.
The US (I've seen these states so far: NJ, NY, PA, MA, RI, FL and OH), by far, has some of the worst, car-centric, UNbike-friendly urban planning on the planet.

Saying "Americans are fat and lazy" because they depend on cars is dismissive and avoids dealing with the root of the problem.

Have you seen the film "The End of Suburbia"? You should.

[SteveFox]

you forgot to put single, non parent, self employed, teaching himself his school...

steve

[2wheeledsoul]

2wheeledsoul,

Prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine, neighborhoods were planned so you COULD get around by foot, bicycle, horse, whatever.

I'm a Canadian who's lived in Europe and the US and travelled to 30+ countries to date.
The US (I've seen these states so far: NJ, NY, PA, MA, RI, FL and OH), by far, has some of the worst, car-centric, UNbike-friendly urban planning on the planet.

Saying "Americans are fat and lazy" because they depend on cars is dismissive and avoids dealing with the root of the problem.

Have you seen the film "The End of Suburbia"? You should.
You're not telling me anything I don't know, friend. I live and bike in one of those poorly planned, gashappy, speedhappy, cellphonehappy, head-up-the-ass, has a long way to go to be bike friendly urban sprawls.
Your average blue-collar motoring moron American is fat and lazy. They'de rather cram big macs into their maw from the driver's seat of a Ford Exploiter and complain about it, than actually do anything about it. Tell them that you biked five miles to work in bumper to bumper hellish traffic, in the rain and cold and all, and feel like a superman for it, and they think you're crazy. Very few of them have the balls to travel by bike, they think it's too hard. Then they get all indignant, pissed off, and self-centered superior because you on your bike dares to get on their road. And don't get me started on the antibike hate campagns on Clear Channel radio stations, and in several papers across the country.

That's the root of the problem, friend.

[SteveFox]

whoa...this is what the car regime wants...they want us fellow environmentally freindly few to rip eachother apart in forums so that its job is easier...we need to stick together if we mean to do anything about the car regime. lol...

steve

[2wheeledsoul]

whoa...this is what the car regime wants...they want us fellow environmentally freindly few to rip eachother apart in forums so that its job is easier...we need to stick together if we mean to do anything about the car regime. lol...

steve
You're absolutely right.
Sorry for the rants, I tend to be brutally honest. You can tell, huh? :p

[af895]

whoa...this is what the car regime wants...they want us fellow environmentally freindly few to rip eachother apart in forums so that its job is easier...we need to stick together if we mean to do anything about the car regime. lol...

steve

Uh oh! Big-Oil is on to us. Steve here is from Alberta, the most oil rich province in Canada.
Just bustin' you up Steve. ;) Point taken.

I actually live in a reasonably well-planned city. In any given neighbourhood, we have groceries, libraries, schools etc within a reasonable walk from houses, let alone a bike ride. In another thread, the topic of regionality comes up in context of urban planning, mass-transit and cycle-friendliness.

My frustration isn't directed at 2wheeledsoul or anyone else here. I have friends in the US that I have enormous respect for. I find Americans to be a resourceful people and I expect the average American wants to do "the right thing" but they're dealing with a system corrupted by a fortune-seeking few. It's been corrupted to a point where "the right thing" isn't even plainly obvious, and that's just sad.

In context of the Big Mac, look at Europe. McDonalds isn't even allowed to display their golden arches in many places because it's considered an afront to the senses - ruinous to the historical aesthetic of 1,000 year old cities. Not so in America where corporate interests trump all.

I hope it gets sorted out but I think it'll get a lot worse before it gets better, for many people. :\

[2wheeledsoul]

I actually live in a reasonably well-planned city. In any given neighbourhood, we have groceries, libraries, schools etc within a reasonable walk from houses, let alone a bike ride. In another thread, the topic of regionality comes up in context of urban planning, mass-transit and cycle-friendliness.


Dude, I'm jealous. Goes to show that your city planner actually has a brain, and isn't bought off by corperate interest lobbyest *******s.

You've made a lot of sense in that post. Thanx. :)

[Fillanzea]

There are many people besides those who have the physical capability to bike five or six miles, when their school/work/groceries/shops are located at five or six or more miles from their residences.

There are old people, young people, people with chronic illnesses and disabilities (fibromyalgia and other chronic pain, athsma, fractures, sprains), people with infants to carry, people who are simply located at the far end of the spectrum of natural physical ability, et cetera.

The average <i>anyone</i>, Canadian, American, whatever, is pretty lazy, and will take the path of least resistance. So I think one does have to take into account the role of urban design in making car-free living a lot harder than it has to be--it's just not realistic to expect people to spend a half hour being rained on for their convictions or sense of superiority when they have a much easier, socially sanctioned alternative.

[Helmet Head]

I trust you HH, so I gladly answered the poll, but I'm curious. What's your purpose here?
As usual, I am looking for some data (however unscientific this self-selection is) to support or refute a theory. I don't want to skew the poll results by revealing what that theory is, at least while it's still active, but you're free to guess!
:)

[2wheeledsoul]

As usual, I am looking for some data (however unscientific this self-selection is) to support or refute a theory. I don't want to skew the poll results by revealing what that theory is, at least while it's still active, but you're free to guess!
:)
Cool! I'm interested in the theory, and what you come up with. but I can wait, I won't bug you about it. :)

[Helmet Head]

There are many people besides those who have the physical capability to bike five or six miles, when their school/work/groceries/shops are located at five or six or more miles from their residences.

There are old people, young people, people with chronic illnesses and disabilities (fibromyalgia and other chronic pain, athsma, fractures, sprains), people with infants to carry, people who are simply located at the far end of the spectrum of natural physical ability, et cetera.

The average <i>anyone</i>, Canadian, American, whatever, is pretty lazy, and will take the path of least resistance. So I think one does have to take into account the role of urban design in making car-free living a lot harder than it has to be--it's just not realistic to expect people to spend a half hour being rained on for their convictions or sense of superiority when they have a much easier, socially sanctioned alternative.
In addition to just being lazy - which is something very difficult to change through advocacy - others are discouraged about cycling because they live more than 5 or 6 miles from any regular destinations (work, shopping, school, entertainment, medical care, friends). But I believe the biggest factor that keeps at least the non-lazy folks from cycling who live within 5-6 miles of regular destinations is their belief that riding in traffic is an unreasonable risk. This is a factor I believe advocacy can address, and I spend a lot of time explaining how in the Safety and Advocacy forum. If you're interested, please check it out.

[pakole]

I don't think you can draw that sharp a line between people who are car-free because they're poor and people who are car-free because they like cycling or for ideological reasons. I think it's more complicated than that.

Personally, I can't afford a car, and that's kind of a drag. It means I haven't been to my church in a couple months--it has only evening services, and with two broken bones this year, I'm nervous to ride in the dark. There's only one movie theater in a five-mile radius, so I usually take the bus for two hours if there's a movie I really want to see. I am really, really weak, so I don't have the range of movement that stronger car-free people have; three or four miles is just about my limit for daily travel. So I don't get to go to the mall as often as I like, or to a good bookstore, and forget about it if I need to buy a microwave or a vacuum cleaner. And I hate walking to the laundromat. I look like a very poor dork, carrying my clothes across the highway.
But, at the same time, I like being car-free in that I can't imagine that those inconveniences above are justification for me to spend 5 or 6 thousand dollars a year in buying and maintaining a car. For that kind of money, I could get a piano or a decent bike or a new bookcase or a new computer. And I agree with a lot of car-free people ideologically; cars are unpleasant, and I hate that urban design in a lot of places makes it hard to live car-free. I probably will stay car-free if I can manage it even if my financial situation does improve--but I'm likely to move to someplace where I can go to the megaplex or Borders on a Saturday or Sunday, or the temptation to buy a car will be too strong. ;)
My question is why does it matter in reference to the poll. The poll ask about thw individual and their status: employment, realtions, and children. Everything else does not need to be include. Why stop at those who are car-free because theya re poor, but also those whoa re car-free to help the environment, or those that want to fight the man. Please keep comment on topic.

[karmical]

I voted "none of the above" since I am not married, but I have been living with the lady of my life for 8 years now, and in about 2 months I will be a father.

Up until now my initial choice of being car free stands, and because I have been carless forever, I am allready making choices and decisions based on that fact. I think that being carfree with kids is undesirable only if you create situations that make it so. Of course I could be wrong and I'll know in a couple of years no doubt. But, as a kid my family was car-free, and no problems couldn't be solved without a little ingenuity...

A lot of it has to do with attitude. Things that look like chores to other people end up becoming a fun part of your day to those used to it.


another "none of the above here" living with my "life partner" ha- but have a baby on the way this summer. so far the lady has been getting around by bike and public transportation on the days shes been to sick to ride, but there is going to come the point where i'm not going to want her riding her bike, or being around disgusting freaks on the bus and light rail, nor do i want to subject my newborn child to the filth of living in the city, so some choices are going to have to be made.

not to hijack this thread but how are you planning on getting your newborn out and about?

[closetbiker]

Family people generally have more responsibilities as far as travel goes....i.e, hauling the kids to school, buying daipers, emergency Dr.s apts for kids,...

When you put it that way, I can almost agree with you. However...
- WTF is wrong with kids taking the bus? Most schools run a bus service.
- What, you can't stuff a pack of huggies or two in the panniers?
- Dial 911. The doctors come to you! Ahh, the magic of modern communications.

Parenting is only overly complicated when you make it so. Use the grey stuff under your helmet, and you can make just about anything work. :D

Overly complicated? Ever tried taking 2, squirming preschool kids on a walk to the bus stop with all the stuff you need for them? Get on the bus as well? It's an adventure that takes at least twice as long and is three times a tough as a drive. A pack or 2 of huggies in the panniers? What, you going to take 3 trips a day to the store? How much time is in a day? And when was the last time a doctor made house calls?

Neccesity is the mother of invention, and if you don't have a car, you can make do and survive without one, but having one makes lots of things easier and lets you manage a whole lot more than you could before.

Once my kids got older I thought of selling the car but if I added up the cost of bus passes for all the family and the difference in price shopping closer to home and the odd cab, it was cheaper to drive my beater the little that I needed it for.

[Orikal]

.......or "The Working Poor"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0375408908/002-7060009-8545620?v=glance&n=283155

Excellent book. Eye-openeing, and worth every penny. Highly recommended.

[Cyclepath]

Good read. Amazon however is a bloated, Republican-owned corporation. You can buy it & others through independent bookstores at http://abebooks.com

[weed eater]

Good read. Amazon however is a bloated, Republican-owned corporation. You can buy it & others through independent bookstores at http://abebooks.com

or through http://www.powells.com

[weed eater]

I agree with this sentiment entirely--urban planning is HUGE, and affects our car-free existences most profoundly. We don't talk about it much here, at least not directly, but it's urban planning/design (or the lack thereof) that has made the US such a lousy place for humans -- and such a great place for cars.

I received something of a crash course in urban planning due to a lot of work I was doing over the past five years. One thing I learned is that a lot of things we think of as "just there" are the result of either good or bad planning; most good planning did not happen by accident, and most bad did not happen by accident either. Once you gain a consciousness of the way planning works, the role it plays in our lives becomes more and more evident.

An example: I learned that there is a lot of theory about block sizes. Small block sizes are good for street life and humans; large block sizes are good for cars, and bad for street life and humans. I was able to compare my real-life experiences in Oakland, CA (big, weirdly shaped blocks) against POrtland, OR (extra-small, evenly gridded blocks) and found that, for a panoply of reasons, it really is true. You can find concrete reasoning to back it up, but the fact is that small blocks just feel different. They're easier to navigate as a newcomer, they slow cars down, and they encourage street life, walking, and human interaction. It can sound a bit crazy, but it's true.

James Howard Kunstler's recent book, THe Long Emergency, is getting a lot of press lately, but for a great redux of (sub)urban planning, read his earlier book, The Geography of Nowhere. It's an excellent and easy-to-understand treatise on urban planning, and it's nice that he's definitely on our side of the coin.

There are also some new films that look into this, and of course tons of books, some directed at professionals and others directed at the layman. However you care to go about gathering your information, I encourage all of us car-freebies to look into urban planning and to learn more about it. It's a powerful tool, and the more we know about it, the more we can have a positive effect on the future.

regards

Patrick

There are many people besides those who have the physical capability to bike five or six miles, when their school/work/groceries/shops are located at five or six or more miles from their residences.

There are old people, young people, people with chronic illnesses and disabilities (fibromyalgia and other chronic pain, athsma, fractures, sprains), people with infants to carry, people who are simply located at the far end of the spectrum of natural physical ability, et cetera.

The average <i>anyone</i>, Canadian, American, whatever, is pretty lazy, and will take the path of least resistance. So I think one does have to take into account the role of urban design in making car-free living a lot harder than it has to be--it's just not realistic to expect people to spend a half hour being rained on for their convictions or sense of superiority when they have a much easier, socially sanctioned alternative.

[weed eater]

hey karmical--benyben has another thread goin' on about the cartage of newborns

see http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=163053



another "none of the above here" living with my "life partner" ha- but have a baby on the way this summer. so far the lady has been getting around by bike and public transportation on the days shes been to sick to ride, but there is going to come the point where i'm not going to want her riding her bike, or being around disgusting freaks on the bus and light rail, nor do i want to subject my newborn child to the filth of living in the city, so some choices are going to have to be made.

not to hijack this thread but how are you planning on getting your newborn out and about?

[BenyBen]

another "none of the above here" living with my "life partner" ha- but have a baby on the way this summer. so far the lady has been getting around by bike and public transportation on the days shes been to sick to ride, but there is going to come the point where i'm not going to want her riding her bike, or being around disgusting freaks on the bus and light rail, nor do i want to subject my newborn child to the filth of living in the city, so some choices are going to have to be made.

not to hijack this thread but how are you planning on getting your newborn out and about?

Hmmm.. Perhpas your city isn't too great. but I live on the montreal island, and while it's polluted, the thick suburbia surrounding it isn't much better. And if I want to live out of the city, then I'll have to spend time and money into a car. Time and money I can spend in better areas (such as the baby).

To get the kid arround, I'll use lots of walking and public transit (there really arren't many discusting freaks in public transit). When summer comes I might do the bike trailer thing with a baby car seat in there. If not, I have everything I need within a 30 minutes walk distance, and 10-15 by bus.

[oystercatcher]

Never a better argument for spacing births so that you have only 1 infant to care of. Additionally the parent with kids in the car is more distracted and hence a greater hazard on the road.
I am not sure about how appropriate on this forum the topic of motor assisted bicycles is but for those needing the assist it is an option.