Classic & Vintage - need help restoring an old brooks saddle

has anyone had any success in restoring an old leather saddle. mine is hard and feels like plastic. i think it was left out in the rain and sun for 20-30 years, are there any techniques, tips etc. there are no deep cracks, just surface cracks and the brass is in good shape. i read someone soaked a saddle in leather treatment (not sure which type)

thanks

Proofide.

You don't want to soak it in proofide. Apply it, ok, soak, no.

I have brought back a couple of saddles from situations that sound similar to yours. I got a restorant from a shop that specializes in leather goods. I applied it once a day for about a week, and now I have nice, firm, yet not stiff saddles.

proofide - cool i will look for it, off hand any local stores carry it like wall mart

Proofide is a product you're likely to find only where Brooks saddles are sold. "Tannery", or Mink Oil ought to work as well, or better for bringing your saddle back. Once it gets back, proofide is great for keeping it in condition.

Neatsfoot oil is commonly used on saddlery and reccomended for restoration of fine leathers. It is derived from natural animal protiens (fat around cows ankles, gross)not synthetics or petroleum. It's easy to find, I ggogles it:

http://www.dellsleatherworks.com/neatsfootoil.htm

I like neatfoot oil, too, and have used it exclusively on my Brooks for occasional conditioning. For restoring a Brooks, I can see how it would be good for softening things up.....as for regular maintenance with neatsfoot oil, lots of folks (including Brooks, I think) will tell you Proofhide only. But the neatfoot oil keeps mine somewhat water resistant, and I love the luster it has after a good polishing with the stuff-

I 4th the Needsfoot approach.

thanks for the tip. i'll head off and pick up some neatsfoot oil. that actually sounds like a winner. i will report back after

thanks

Note that there are two types of "neatsfoot oil". The stuff I've used is the natural, water-soluble stuff. You don't want the fake, petroleum-based stuff. Once the saddle is restored and supple again, you can use Proofhide to make the top water-resistant.

Neatsfoot oil and Proofide are both good. Sno-Seal is better. My work boots have proven it to me all my life. Also, before Hi-Tech Mountaineering boots arrived, real climbers used leather. I sold my 'classic' Raichles to a local restaraunt. :roflmao: Sno-Seal was best and I still use it. You can get it any place that sells boots for about $5 a jar.

Heat the saddle in a warm oven (low setting about 180f) and slather it up good - several times. You'll be amazed. Totally waterproof and will buff up nicely. It's mostly bees wax with some other stuff to help it penetrate and soften a little.

you mean sno-seal vs the neatsfoot or proofide or neatsfoot first then follow up w/ proofide or sno-seal (this one seems more of a sealer vs restorer)

Brooks only recomends Proofide. Anything else they do not recommend.
You don't want to over soften the leather because... when you go to adjust the tightening nut under the frame, because it is too loose, the leather will pull and stretch right out of the rivet holes. I even saw a case where the nose ripped right off because of over softening.
Please go to the Brooks Website.

I've got to agree with the voice of caution: Brooks knows their own leather, and I have seen saddles ruined from applications of things other than Proofide. I did it myself, once. The only neetsfoot oil I ever saw was petroleum-solvent based, and I would NOT suggest that unless you want to SOFTEN the leather. Since the leather on a Brooks (and other of these type) saddle is a tensioned load-bearing component, I think you need be very careful about over-softening and weakening it. Of course everybody has their favorite method of "breaking in" a new Brooks (baseball bat), but you also are breaking down the fibers of the leather when you do this...it's a compromise between comfort and strength/durability. When the saddle has aged from wetting/drying and hot sun, the leather fibers are by definition weakened, and after a point there's no bringing them back with anything you can apply. I do NOT recommend Sno-Seal cause IIFC it contains silicone, that's a never-return path once applied. I am interested to learn about the possible "all natural" versions of neetsfoot oil, if it's true it might be closer to the formulation of Proofide which is a trade secret but known to contain animal fat (tallow most likely). If you need a "mink-oil" type waterproofer look for real mink oil made from minks, not one with synthetics or silicone in it. Some people swear by soaking a dried out Brooks in extra virgin olive oil, but other people call them F*&^in' crazy...

thats interesting. i'm glad to hear all the opinions. whats the purpose of the screw at the front? why would a saddle have to be tensioned? does it stretch and weaken in the center? i'll check out the proofide at the website. as for the extra virgin olive oil, that actually may have some merrit. it contains essential fatty acids and i give it to my german shepherd occasionnaly when his coat gets to dry. i also consume alot of olive oil and i'm 35 and dont look a day over 40

The Olive oil is great for cooking, and my GSD really likes it
over her food (infrequently) but for a Brooks no way.
I think that it would become rancid after a while and well, stink worse
than normal (not that I go sniffing bicycle saddles).
I bought an old Brooks that was dry, not cracked still had the
finished look on the surface. what I did was gently heat the saddle
(hairdryer) apply the proofide heat with blow dryer to facilitate the
oil/wax being absorbed. repeated daily for a few days and then slathered
it on thickly on the underside (do this once a year for waterproofing).
as for the tensioning screw, I've not needed to use it yet, but when you
do go easy, 1/4 turn (90 degrees) once every few years unless you've saturated
the saddle and it's sagging badly.

Marty

This is a compilation of Brooks reconditioning responses
I got from Classic Rendezvous list when I asked the same
question.
Note the response from Bill Laine (Wallingford bikes)
probably the biggest Brooks distributor in the US.



I've faced this problem recently with a couple dried out saddles, one
Wrights and one Brooks, and got them both into reasonable shape. Here's
what I did, at least; I won't claim it's the ultimate, but it worked for
me.

1. Often, as the leather dries, it shrinks, and the sides of the saddle
splay out. You can fix this by wetting the leather slightly and gently
clamping it in the desired shape. It must dry thoroughly (a couple of
days) before releasing the clamps. If you need to touch up any gouges
with leather paint, do it now also.

2. Oil the underside of the saddle with a fair amount of good leather
oil, Neetsfoot or baseball glove oil.

3. Oil the top less heavily, but give it plenty of time to soak in.
Leave it in a room of normal warmth (i.e., not in the garage in winter!)
for a few hours. It's amazing how well the fine surface cracks will close.

4. Use your judgement as to how much oiling to do. It depends on how dry
the leather is, and how it responds to oiling. Be careful not to use too
much, or you will have a greasy tush after each ride!


Marty,

Early in 2003 I bought a used Brooks on E-Bay. I have a total of 6
Brooks (7 if you count the one I broke in a crash that's hanging on the
wall). The one I got from the guy on E-Bay was horrible. For some reason
he had it wrapped in saran wrap. It appeared to have been exposed to
water at some point. It was cracked and hard as a rock. I was not happy,
since it didn't look like it could be salvaged.

Here's what I did. I drenched it in Red Wing Boot oil (probably neats
foot) and set it out in the hot sun to absorb the oil. I did this
several times until it started to soften just a bit. I applied the oil
with a brush for each application. Then I went to Proofide. Again, two
or three applications and hot sun exposure to warm the leather to
encourage absorption. Then I put the saddle on the bike I use on
training rollers and rode it. Every 4 or 5 rides I applied Proofide.
Slowly the saddle stared to soften. But of course, the cracks never got
any better. After about 600 miles or so of riding I retired it because
the cracks were rough and started to hurt. It's in much better shape now
than when I got it. I may try at some point to carefully trim down the
rough edges of the cracks and use it again. As with any leather, at some
point of abuse it just completely breaks down. Brooks saddles will take
more abuse than most, so if your saddle isn't cracked you should be able
to rejuvenate it. As for myself, I decided I'd go back to breaking my
own in from brand new. That consists of some careful applications of
Proofide and riding, riding, riding. I have one right now that is
reaching perfection, it's on my mountain bike. Another is close behind,
it's on my roller bike. And two that are still like riding chunks of
wood. One of those is a beautiful honey colored Team Pro that's on my
fixed gear bike. Rode it 25 miles yesterday and can still feel the pain.
I've been trying the trick posted on the list of hitting the saddle with
a hammer on this one. Only I don't use a ball-peen hammer as
recommended. I cover the saddle with a towel and hit it with a large
rubber mallet, using the side of the mallet instead of the flat surface.

I got my wife a women's Team Pro for Christmas. That one is going to
have to be worked on before I install it on her Holdsworth.

Hope this isn't too much information :)


Marty,
as I've advised before (on Dec.24 see archives under "Brooks saddles"):


"Richard,
As I have advised before: www.leatherique.com
As recommended by The Ferrari Club of America. "Rejuvenator Oil. It
works.
Used by me on my 67' Ferrari and Brooks that are old and too hard. Use
sparingly."
Use profide after as a sealer to keep out unwanted H2O that will dry out
your saddle even more. Your just moisturizing the saddle and then sealing
it in and the water out.


Hi Marty

For a saddle like you describe I would just use repeated Proofide
treatments. Little and often.

If a saddle is really bad off I use Nivea cream on it. (skin care, drug store)

Regards

Bill Laine
Wallingford Bicycle Parts
888 731 3537

I've had lots of luck with bringing back several dozen dried out and
abused saddles over the years. Much of what applies to restoring
tack applies to bicycle leather.

Some important considerations have been ignored in this discussion
but if you'll check the archive you'll find they've been deal with
more than once before.

-----DIRT AND SALT (SWEAT) Must FIRST be removed from the leather.
compressed air>dry brush>damp cloth>damp cloth w/leather
cleaner-condition>
soaking wet cloth (in that order) Do not use saddle soap!!!
SADDLE SOAP SUCKS the life out of leather.

-----LIMITED application of oil!
I've not used Rejuvenator Oil but leather upholstery differs considerably
from saddle leather in suppleness. It probably fine but just don't over
apply.
TOO much oil will over-soften a good saddle.
Apply the oil thinly (LEXOL is excellent) while the leather is still wet
after
cleaning and only on a saddle that was extremely dry.
Otherwise just use Proofide--it does soften the saddle as radically.

-----Tie the saddle into the proper shape while it is still damp.
Allow it to dry slowly....no hair dryers!

-----After the saddle has dried for a week or so a coat of carnuba furniture
wax
will make it look a might newer and protect it longer. Parade shoe wax
will do as well and will also cover scuffs.

I use a Dremel small brush and tooth paste to polish the rivets.
Carry a shower cap in your tour bag. Muddy weather is the
natural enemy of leather saddles.

onbike_1939 has lots of experience with conditioning Brooks saddles and has posted his method in Reviving Old Brooks Saddle (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1308749&postcount=5) , using Hydrophane Leather Dressing (http://tinyurl.com/8pv8b) (in a current eBay auction) . Here's an excerpt:

. . . I've conditioned many Brooks saddles over the years, so many I've lost count and am aware of the many other methods used but I do know this one will not damage the saddle in any way and will in fact prolong the saddle's life in that it will not dry out and eventually crack. Beware that Brooks frown on any other method of breaking-in and will regard it as breaching the warranty. They recommend nothing other than applying Proofhide which does nothing to aid the breaking-in process but merely acts as a temporary waterproofing for the top surface. That said I treat all my own saddles, all are supremely comfortable from day one and the oldest is thirty-five years old.
I use Hydrophane, a leather dressing used for waterproofing and softening horses tack. It is not comparable to neatsfoot oil and other like products, which I would not recommend. . . .

walmart is not a local store

You dragged this thread up after a month for political commentary? Dude -- get a life.

As long as the thread is dragged up, it's worth noting that Brooks has an economic interest in recommending only their own product (proofide). It does work well, and it's what I use, and using anything else voids the warranty, but lots of experienced Brooks-saddle riders use other products. Rivendell, one of the kings of recommending Brooks saddles to everyone, uses and recomends Obenauf's Leather Preservative (http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/saddles_accessories/31243.html).

I was given a Brooks Pro Select saddle from a co-worker who said he hated it. The tin of Proofide he gave me was almost gone. He slathered so much Proofide on it that it the sides of it were ruined and I had to butcher it. I guess he thought that the Proofide would soften it.

When people buy these saddles the bike shops need to educate the cycling public on the care of them.

According to the makers of Sno-seal it does not contain silicone.

http://www.atsko.com/snoseal.html

Also, though people swear by Proofide, the sno-seal is formulated to not soften leather too much so that it stretches too much and it has few animal fats which are smelly and go rancid.

It seems to me that Sno-seal would be better for maintaining the seat. As for bringing one back form the dead I don't know. But I would consider Lexol followed by Proofide or Sno-seal or something similar.

...I applied it once a day for about a week, and now I have nice, firm, yet not stiff saddles.

Whew! I thought you were gonna say 'stools' for a second there. :eek: