Winter Cycling - Holy crap! Are studs really that much slower?

Been out of regular cycling for about a month due to injuries, though I thought I was keeping in shape with 10M spins a couple times a week. Did a run this am, about 20 F, for 16M, my normal commute distance. First long ride with studs on both tires, on pavement. though the route is a little more difficult than normal, trip took 40 mins. longer than usual :eek: Are studs that much slower, or have I just been out of it for too long. My butt was dragging... thx. Scott

Avg speed on single speed Mnt bike, street tire, in summer:24K/hr
Avg with studded tire in winter:17K/hr

Avg speed on single speed Mnt bike, street tire, in summer:24K/hr
Avg with studded tire in winter:17K/hr
I'm going to have to take that as a yes!! :)

Yes studs slow you down a LOT! I have about a 7 mile ride (one way), in the summer I can do it in 25mins, winter 45mins to an hour. IT SUCKS, but with the studs you fall less, and can get thoght all that snow and ice.

If you have been off for about a month, it's a little of each, not just one.

I'm with 2many on this one. Studs do slow you down, but you lose your bike conditioning disconcertingly fast. You'll get some of that lost speed back soon enough.

The studs are also frequently wider with lower psi than the tires used during the rest of the year. So when you consider weight, width, lower psi, aggressive treads (which slow you down) and lack of conditioning, you can get a much slower commute.

Of course, you don't end up having to spend hours at the emergency room and months in physical therapy because your front tire collapsed on black ice. So it kind of evens out.

Been out of regular cycling for about a month due to injuries, though I thought I was keeping in shape with 10M spins a couple times a week. Did a run this am, about 20 F, for 16M, my normal commute distance. First long ride with studs on both tires, on pavement. though the route is a little more difficult than normal, trip took 40 mins. longer than usual :eek: Are studs that much slower, or have I just been out of it for too long. My butt was dragging... thx. Scott

Resistance training ....

Yes, they have a LOT more drag because they actually grab and HOLD the surfaces you are riding on. Just think if it as a little resistance training and know that when you get back on your normal rubber, you'll feel great.

Now if it would just FREEZE around here so I can use my Nokians.

bullethead -- last week my trips were completely snow and ice clear with dry pavement most of the way. Over several days of testing I found I lost about 2 mph from what I could manage on my normal commuter tires. On the mud and dirt sections I ride the drag is even greater since the tread really grabs the ground -- in big gloppy chunks most of the time. As everyone else has said the first time you use them on black ice or other smooth ice surface, you'll be happy to live with the drag for the increased stability and maneuverability.

I think the studded tires slow me down too.

But what's really slow is no studs on a slippery road! You will slow to walking speed, or even sometimes actually walk with the bike. :eek:

My commute in summer is 14 minutes hammering. In winter it goes up to 17 minutes. Besides the tires there are other factors:

Cold air is denser so you have more wind resistance.
Winter clothes are bulkier for more drag.
The weight of your gear is greater.
Windier conditions in general.
Your physical condition may be less than optimal for lower horsepower.


Remember if the roads are dry to pump your tires up to the maximum psi. Let some air out if you need more traction.

I think the studded tires slow me down too.

But what's really slow is no studs on a slippery road! You will slow to walking speed, or even sometimes actually walk with the bike. :eek:

My commute in summer is 14 minutes hammering. In winter it goes up to 17 minutes. Besides the tires there are other factors:

Cold air is denser so you have more wind resistance.
Winter clothes are bulkier for more drag.
The weight of your gear is greater.
Windier conditions in general.
Your physical condition may be less than optimal for lower horsepower.


Remember if the roads are dry to pump your tires up to the maximum psi. Let some air out if you need more traction.

What he said.... :) +1

Yes studs slow you down a LOT! I have about a 7 mile ride (one way), in the summer I can do it in 25mins, winter 45mins to an hour. IT SUCKS, but with the studs you fall less, and can get thoght all that snow and ice.

Same length commute, same time differental between my road tires and my Nashbar studs.

My nokians don't slow me down all that much in the winter. Maybe a few KPH.

But then, I tend to run pointlessly massive tires in the summer, too.

What he said.... :) +1


+2

I will add it’s not only the resistance of the studs or weight of just the tire on ice/snow but also the outer rotational weight of the studs on your tire. The more weight on the outer part of the wheel = slower. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

+2

I will add it’s not only the resistance of the studs or weight of just the tire on ice/snow but also the outer rotational weight of the studs on your tire. The more weight on the outer part of the wheel = slower. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?
I think you're right. Road racers say wheel weight is the most important factor in speed and performance.

BTW, I said my summer commute time is 14 minutes and winter time is 17 minutes. Well, I'm proud to announce that I did it last night in 14:40. I sure was nice and warm when got home!

Comparing the tire weights between my light summer knobbies and my studs there is over a full POUND PER TIRE difference. All rotational weight. Over my 5.2 mile commute I've added about 4-6 minutes with these things. OTOH, I figure this should pay some nice dividends when the road season gets back in full swing.

+2

I will add it’s not only the resistance of the studs or weight of just the tire on ice/snow but also the outer rotational weight of the studs on your tire. The more weight on the outer part of the wheel = slower. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

I'm skeptical about that. Seems to me that rotational wieght will affect acceleration and hill climbing, not steady speed...

I'm skeptical about that. Seems to me that rotational wieght will affect acceleration and hill climbing, not steady speed...

I agree. But alas, the reults speak for themselves. Tread pattern is the real X-factor here. My studs have about the most aggressive lugs I've ever seen. These things suck so much energy I should they'd be hot at the end of a ride!

I'm skeptical about that. Seems to me that rotational wieght will affect acceleration and hill climbing, not steady speed...

work = mass x velocity

It has to have an effect, but there are so many other things coming into play it's hard to isolate one thing. If the weight of the different types of tires is close, other factors may be making more of a difference.

Take two 700x20 tires place them around one arm and spin them like a hula hoop for a while.

Then take two huge knobbies, place them around one arm and spin them like a hula hoop for a while.

You won't have any more questions.

You took tread design, tire pressure, rolling resistance, bearings, and aerodynamics (mostly) out of the picture.

You can notice the difference between much closer sizes but it's not so incredibly obvious. The 700x 20's can go for a long time, The big knobbies, will wear you out shortly.

I think the studded tires slow me down too.

But what's really slow is no studs on a slippery road! You will slow to walking speed, or even sometimes actually walk with the bike. :eek:

My commute in summer is 14 minutes hammering. In winter it goes up to 17 minutes. Besides the tires there are other factors:

Cold air is denser so you have more wind resistance.
Winter clothes are bulkier for more drag.
The weight of your gear is greater.
Windier conditions in general.
Your physical condition may be less than optimal for lower horsepower.


Remember if the roads are dry to pump your tires up to the maximum psi. Let some air out if you need more traction.

If I remember, the next time I get dressed for a 25 degree ride I'm going to weigh all the clothes I will be wearing and what I wear when it is hot. I would not be surprised if there is way over a 5 lb difference, maybe even 10 lbs.

In addition to what you listed, it takes more power to flex a few layers of tights, than nothing on your legs.

I've ridden a few centuries on studded tires, and they are not that slow.

I've been commuting with my winter beater, an unsuspended GT mountain bike with Nashbar 26" studs and full slush shield fenders. It feels like I am running on the beach in loose sand. 5 mile commute down to 11-12 MPH. Since winters over in WI and the roads are clear I got swithed back to my all weather beater, an early 90's steel raleigh cross(?) bike with 700 x 37 commuter tires. Popped back up to 14-15 MPH. It was 30 F so still am wearing lots of clothes. Sooo then I think ...... must be bike weight. Got out the scale and guess what? They are within a pound of 38# each! The raleigh must be gaspipe! Studded tires may be neccessary but they ain't fun.

Bent

On the bright side, if one gets used to studded tires, then you build up that much more endurance (or so I would imagine).

Of course you will SLOW down with studs...

The whole reason ya put them on is the weather conditions.

Riding with Studs on dry pavement can be fun at times, NOT, can be slick@!

Tis only natural to SLOW down. Course putting on knobbies will slow you down, but knobbies with Studs? Makes slooooooooow when you hear those Rice Crispies

Of course you will SLOW down with studs...

The whole reason ya put them on is the weather conditions.

Riding with Studs on dry pavement can be fun at times, NOT, can be slick@!

Tis only natural to SLOW down. Course putting on knobbies will slow you down, but knobbies with Studs? Makes slooooooooow when you hear those Rice Crispies

zzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZ

here he comes!! :)

zzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZ

here he comes!! :)

:roflmao:

Makes it sound like I am fast asleep... ha ha ha... "Snap...Crackle...POP!"

if you need to use studded tires you probably shouldn't be going really fast anyway

Actually, the reason I use studded tires is so that I can go really fast.

If I was afraid of losing it in every corner, I'd go a lot slower.

And what fun would that be?

all i know when i corner too hard on the studs they loose it. i run the nokian 160's though

my nokians really slow me down until I get used to them. Resistance training is right. But, way better than riding the bus to work, that's for sure.

Power requirement increase, approx...
Bulkier clothing: 10-30%
Greater rolling resistance: 10-20%
Denser air: 5-10%
Greater mass: 0-10%
More rotational mass in tyres: 0-0.1% :)

Those are the physical factors that can slow you down.

Add to that what Roody said about your general condition deteriorating during the "low" season. That's not true for everyone, but surely for most of us.

The windier argument, though, isn't true in general. It could very well be for a specific location, but not everywhere. Where I live, the windiest time of the year is October-November (storms are frequent and persistent), and the least windy is right about now. Almost no wind at all the past week. No wind at all for two days. Doesn't happen in the summer, other than once every couple of years. In the summer, there's an almost constant breeze here. 3-5 m/s (6-10 mph) most days is typical for June-September.

Power requirement increase, approx...
Bulkier clothing: 10-30%
Greater rolling resistance: 10-20%
Denser air: 5-10%
Greater mass: 0-10%


Point. Today it was sunny and 10C here, I took the bike with the Nokians out and logged 25km on pavement. It suddenly didn't seem as slow, barely any different from XC off-road tires. There are a lot of reasons that we're slower in the winter, and studs are only one of them.

+2

I will add it’s not only the resistance of the studs or weight of just the tire on ice/snow but also the outer rotational weight of the studs on your tire. The more weight on the outer part of the wheel = slower. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Well, it's slower acceleration. As long as you keep the tires at the same speed, you are only fighting resistance, no the moment of inertia.

I would come down on the "it's not slower" side. It's just harder to speed up and break (but just marginally).

We finally got snow, and of course it's melting like crazy, but will freeze up tonight. I will take my studded tires out for the first time tomorrow. I practiced today, but only in the now and slush. I'm kinda nervous, and kinda excited, too. I expect to go slow, and will be giving myself plenty of extra time to get to work.

got a good dose of snow today. Slapped studs on the front of my MB. Tooled around the neighborhood for a while. Good clean fun, with no need to worry about speed today :)

I'm skeptical about that. Seems to me that rotational wieght will affect acceleration and hill climbing, not steady speed...

Actually, any physicist should be able to tell you that rotational weight, (as compared to non-rotating weight) will affect acceleration more but will not affect hill climbing.

You're increasing kinetic energy twice as much by rolling forward and spinning your tires, but by rolling uphill, heavy tires are not increasing their potential energy* any more than heavy... handlebars, for example.

I ride to school with something like 10 lbs of books these days and I definitely notice that my acceleration is a little slower from that. :)

*"i'm in a high place and would get going fast if i was dropped energy"

Thanks everyone for clearing up the rotational weight problem. I knew it had some effect but how much I didn’t know.

My studded tires really came in handy today! It was a slower commute (icy ruts will do that), but I don't care. I did it! 14 miles, 19F, lots of ice! Whoopee!

My studded tires really came in handy today! It was a slower commute (icy ruts will do that), but I don't care. I did it! 14 miles, 19F, lots of ice! Whoopee!

Congrats - that's really cool.

I suppose there is something to this question. I'm a stud. I'm also pretty slow.

i find that my studded tires are slower also. how ever cold temp. is more factor ifind grease in my hubs -25c and colder drag but snow -15or colder offer good grip less resistance snow at around -5cor warmer i find is harder to pedal in.

Wow, studs certainly are slower! I put some slicks on for the first time since thanksgiving day because i am commuting tommorow and its 40 degrees out there. It feels like a whole new bike

probably more the 40 degrees than the studs..

Homemade studs are slower still since I have a skinnier tire inside the studded tire. This adds another two pounds to the weight besides the weight of the studs. My winter bike is sluggish on pavement but still fun to ride on actual ice!

work = mass x velocity

It has to have an effect, but there are so many other things coming into play it's hard to isolate one thing. If the weight of the different types of tires is close, other factors may be making more of a difference.


Gak. work != mass x velocity
work = force * distance
power = force * speed
note: bold represents vectors and * represents scalar product. if you don't know what that means just ignore it and assumes normal multiplication.