You couldn't be more wrong. I know first hand what saturated fats can do. Over the past 3 years I've been getting blood panels every 3 months and have tracked what I've eaten as I've altered my diet. As saturated fat was reduced from my diet, my LDL went down. If you think my carbs are out of control, I only eat complex carbohydrates (fruits, vegetables). If you look at my previous post you'll see the dramatic change I made in my cholesterol numbers by almost eliminating saturated fats from my diet.

Have you been tracking your blood lipids?

We could all strip down to our underwear and fight it out with Wiffle Bats on Public Access Television. Think of the ratings!

We could all strip down to our underwear and fight it out with Wiffle Bats on Public Access Television. Think of the ratings!

Hmmmm. Perhaps we should move this over to the "chains and whips" forum. :p

You couldn't be more wrong. I know first hand what saturated fats can do. Over the past 3 years I've been getting blood panels every 3 months and have tracked what I've eaten as I've altered my diet. As saturated fat was reduced from my diet, my LDL went down. If you think my carbs are out of control, I only eat complex carbohydrates (fruits, vegetables). If you look at my previous post you'll see the dramatic change I made in my cholesterol numbers by almost eliminating saturated fats from my diet.

Have you been tracking your blood lipids?


sounds like you werent controling your carbs when you were eating the sat. fats, a high fat low carb diet does not worsen LDL to any significant degree, and dramatically improves HDL, triglycerides, blood sugar, etc. this has been well established in study after study after study.

yes, I've tracked mine and my results fit nicely within the previous statement.

sounds like you werent controling your carbs when you were eating the sat. fats, a high fat low carb diet does not worsen LDL to any significant degree, and dramatically improves HDL, triglycerides, blood sugar, etc. this has been well established in study after study after study.

yes, I've tracked mine and my results fit nicely within the previous statement.

In fact, I was on Atkins prior to my chest pain. I was following the program religiously (much as I am following what I do right now). The Atkins program almost killed me. Here's something to chew on...

http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/47/Closing_Off_His_Heart_To_the_Atkins_Diet.htm

I'm not the guy mentioned in the link, but its pretty close to what happened to me, with the exception that I caught it before any coronary damage occured.

The problem for some people is not whether they can get to a goal, it's how well they get there. There are many ways to lose weight. Some are better than others. More carbs (greater than 30%) would allow for better performance during exercise/training. The weight would likely come off quicker in the long run, he might enjoy his exercise more because of being able to perfom better along the way, and be generally more fit. Would you rather exercise at low intensity for 10 hours a week or exercise with some higher intensities for about 3-4 hours of that total time? This is even more important if time available for exercise is under 10 hours per week.

personally, I plan to work up to where I exercise at semi-low intensity a few days a week, higher intensity the other days, and including sprints. minium 12 hours per week, i.e. two hours a day, 6 days a week. oh yeah, add in some strengh training a couple of days a week as well.

perhaps some more carbs could give me a performance boost (and I'm still waiting for just one study showing me this is even a possibilty...) I dont really care.

btw, I would guess that I've been eating a diet of 70% fat and very little carbs (whatever you get from normal sized servings of brocolli, squash, eggplant, and a few bits of fruit, etc.) since christmas. every day this week I did an hour on the stairmaster in the morning and an hour in the pool in the evening, and everyday I've felt like I had more in the tank when I stopped. Yesterday I even did a few sprints to see if my arms would fall off as predicted here (not true - I did fine! maybe slower than a sugar eater, but who cares?)

In fact, I was on Atkins prior to my chest pain. I was following the program religiously (much as I am following what I do right now). The Atkins program almost killed me. Here's something to chew on...

http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/47/Closing_Off_His_Heart_To_the_Atkins_Diet.htm

I'm not the guy mentioned in the link, but its pretty close to what happened to me, with the exception that I caught it before any coronary damage occured.


thanks for the link from the radical animal rights folks, that adds a lot to the convesation....

you must be a mutant if what you're saying is remotely true.

thanks for the link from the radical animal rights folks, that adds a lot to the convesation....

you must be a mutant if what you're saying is remotely true.

100% true. You can talk about what you have read. I can talk about what I experienced. I hope you never have to do the same.

In fact, I was on Atkins prior to my chest pain. I was following the program religiously (much as I am following what I do right now). The Atkins program almost killed me. Here's something to chew on...

http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/47/Closing_Off_His_Heart_To_the_Atkins_Diet.htm

I'm not the guy mentioned in the link, but its pretty close to what happened to me, with the exception that I caught it before any coronary damage occured.

I'm glad you're not mr. Gorran, allied as he is with PETA/PCRM...

anyway, how does one square your story and Mr. Gorran with the mountain of evidence pointing in the opposite direction?

http://www.advance.uconn.edu/2006/060123/06012310.htm

Low-carbohydrate diets reduce heart disease risk, researcher finds

by Janice Palmer - January 23, 2006


The most popular method in the United States for losing weight – low-carbohydrate diets – can reduce a person’s risk of developing heart disease, according to a study conducted by a UConn researcher.

Jeff Volek, an assistant professor of kinesiology, reviewed more than a dozen clinical trials conducted since 2003 and examined low-carb diets and related risk factors for cardiovascular disease.

His findings were published last year in the Journal of Nutrition, the official publication of the American Society for Nutritional Sciences.

Volek’s analysis found that very low-carb diets outperform low-fat diets in lowering triglyceride (fat in the blood) and increasing HDL (good cholesterol).

“This type of replication across studies performed at different institutions is rare, and it shows how robust and consistent the favorable effects of a low-carbohydrate diet really are,” says Volek, a registered dietitian and a member of the UConn Human Performance Laboratory in the Neag School of Education.

During the last five years, Volek has published more than 10 of his own scientific studies specifically examining various aspects of low-carb diets and their connection to heart disease.

Although a portion of his previous research has been funded by the Dr. Robert C. Atkins Foundation, the studies he reviewed for this project were sponsored by a variety of federal and private sources.

According to Volek, recent research studies provide “impressive evidence” that the potential adverse effects of saturated fat on risk for heart disease are only observed when carbohydrates are present in moderate to large amounts. The reason for this, he explains, is that the body processes saturated fat completely differently on a low-carbohydrate diet.

“It simply doesn’t have the same harmful effect,” he says.

Jeff Volek, left, an assistant professor of kinesiology, has published a study of low-carb diets and related factors for cardiovascular disease, based on a review of more than a dozen clinical trials.
Photo by Peter Morenus
The studies Volek reviewed show that low-carbohydrate diets not only improve triglycerides and HDL cholesterol, but also several other risk factors that lead to metabolic syndrome – a condition that puts an estimated 25 percent of adult Americans at a three-fold risk for cardiovascular disease.

His own research, along with those he reviewed, indicates that a low-carbohydrate diet improves all aspects of metabolic syndrome, while a high-carbohydrate diet, even if it’s very low in fat, exacerbates this disorder – unless the person loses significant amounts of weight or increases his or her activity level.

“Low-carbohydrate diets improve metabolic syndrome independent of weight loss and physical activity,” he says.

These scientifically proven facts about low-carb diets have been slow to reach health practitioners or have been ignored, according to Volek.

Yet there have been a number of new studies and papers that continue to have consistent findings. With this in mind, he was inspired to conduct his review study with the goal of better organizing the scientific evidence in a way that might more fully inform health practitioners.

Says Volek, “We hope to encourage health practitioners to at least consider low-carb diets as an option, rather than casually dismissing them.”

100% true. You can talk about what you have read. I can talk about what I experienced. I hope you never have to do the same.

can you tell me how you did atkins? what did you eat? for how long? what were you eating before then and for how long?

Wiffle bats!
Wiffle bats!

Strip off you shirt and pants,
And settle this like men
With Wiffle bats!

can you tell me how you did atkins? what did you eat? for how long? what were you eating before then and for how long?

A typical day would have been bacon and eggs for breakfast, Chicken breast salad with cheese and lettuce with olive oil dressing for lunch, and pan fried steak with spinach and sour cream for dinner, and a snack which could be a couple slices of ham. I was on it for about a year and was into the OWL phase when the chest pain occured. I don't remember the exact numbers I was taking in since its been a few years but, trust me, it was spot on. Prior to that I might eat dry cereal with milk for breakfast, a chicken sandwich and fries for lunch and some meat dish with veggies. I just ate too much of it. I've never had much of a sweet tooth, so candy has never really been an issue.

A typical day would have been bacon and eggs for breakfast, Chicken breast salad with cheese and lettuce with olive oil dressing for lunch, and pan fried steak with spinach and sour cream for dinner, and a snack which could be a couple slices of ham. I was on it for about a year and was into the OWL phase when the chest pain occured. I don't remember the exact numbers I was taking in since its been a few years but, trust me, it was spot on. Prior to that I might eat dry cereal with milk for breakfast, a chicken sandwich and fries for lunch and some meat dish with veggies. I just ate too much of it. I've never had much of a sweet tooth, so candy has never really been an issue.

gee, do you think your heart condition might have something to do with your pre-atkins diet?

gee, do you think your heart condition might have something to do with your pre-atkins diet?

No. I consulted with my doctor prior to starting Atkins. He gave me a physical, including a blood panel which showed relatively normal results. It was when I went into the ER that my numbers were dangerously out of range.

LOL....

Be careful before picking sides in this wiffle bat competition.... remember where all this started from... I am 6'3" and about 265 lbs.... I may be on a low carb diet, but I will still take even Lance Armsrong on in that challenge!!!!!

LOL

:D

No. I consulted with my doctor prior to starting Atkins. He gave me a physical, including a blood panel which showed relatively normal results. It was when I went into the ER that my numbers were dangerously out of range.

well, if you're telling the truth (and I have my doubts - annonymous internet poster, links to radical animal rights site to support his argument??? hmmmm), and if sat. fat really is the problem, you are rare indivdual. very rare.

and btw, the blood panel before atkins is meaningless. to know if you had blockages, that is. I'm no doctor but I think it takes a long time to build up a heart blockage like you described. a long time of eating things like french fries (high carb cooked in transfat, yummy!). so to blame sat. fat is still a stretch.

anyway, glad you're doing better and still amoung us!

well, if you're telling the truth (and I have my doubts - annonymous internet poster, links to radical animal rights site to support his argument??? hmmmm), and if sat. fat really is the problem, you are rare indivdual. very rare.

and btw, the blood panel before atkins is meaningless. to know if you had blockages, that is. I'm no doctor but I think it takes a long time to build up a heart blockage like you described. a long time of eating things like french fries (high carb cooked in transfat, yummy!). so to blame sat. fat is still a stretch.

anyway, glad you're doing better and still amoung us!

No doubt what I was eating prior contributed to the condition. But after a year on Atkins, it pushed it over the edge (I was riding a bike from the start and had the coronary event after a year on Atkins).

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the imaging that is being done each August is now showing the artery is passing a greater volume of blood. According to my cardiologist, this is the result of the level of plaque decreasing on the artery walls, and he attributes it to the diet I am on now, and the high level of activity I engage in (riding and gym training typically gets my HRM to 80% - 90% MHR).

No doubt what I was eating prior contributed to the condition. But after a year on Atkins, it pushed it over the edge (I was riding a bike from the start and had the coronary event after a year on Atkins).

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the imaging that is being done each August is now showing the artery is passing a greater volume of blood. According to my cardiologist, this is the result of the level of plaque decreasing on the artery walls, and he attributes it to the diet I am on now, and the high level of activity I engage in (riding and gym training typically gets my HRM to 80% - 90% MHR).

obviously I take issue with blaming atkins for pushing it over the edge. for one thing sounds like you could have been eating too much processed meats - bacon and ham every day is possibly not such a great idea, depending on your take on nitrites...

I have no doubt your new diet and especially the exercise get the credit for fixing your problem. but unless you are a rare case of someone who is sensiitive for some reason to sat. fat, and you just might be, I think you are unfairly fixing the blame. btw, ask your doctor how much time he's spent studying nutrition. he's just going along with the pc herd, blaming fats when the science points in the opposite direction.

obviously I take issue with blaming atkins for pushing it over the edge. for one thing sounds like you could have been eating too much processed meats - bacon and ham every day is possibly not such a great idea, depending on your take on nitrites...

I have no doubt your new diet and especially the exercise get the credit for fixing your problem. but unless you are a rare case of someone who is sensiitive for some reason to sat. fat, and you just might be, I think you are unfairly fixing the blame. btw, ask your doctor how much time he's spent studying nutrition. he's just going along with the pc herd, blaming fats when the science points in the opposite direction.

Bacon and ham was an example, not the rule. I ate a variety of foods on Atkins.

The overwhelming consensus in the scientific community concurs with what I'm doing regarding diet including the American Medical Association, the American Heart Association and others. You may consider myself an exception, however, most people don't follow through on a weight loss plan, so you won't find a whole lot of people that have lost weight and kept it off, regardless of the weight loss plan they choose. I'm an exception in that its rare that someone actually looses weight and keeps it off. But as far as physiology is concerned, I'm probably pretty typical.

Bacon and ham was an example, not the rule. I ate a variety of foods on Atkins.

The overwhelming consensus in the scientific community concurs with what I'm doing regarding diet including the American Medical Association, the American Heart Association and others.

only because they continue to ignore the actual scientific evidence... which by the way, continues to pile up, sooner or later they'll have to face the reality.


But as far as physiology is concerned, I'm probably pretty typical.

not if you are actually sensitve to saturated fat in while controling carbs, you're not. this isnt even debatable, the studies are out there and pretty much irrefutable. but I suspect something else is going on in your case...

only because they continue to ignore the actual scientific evidence... which by the way, continues to pile up, sooner or later they'll have to face the reality.




not if you are actually sensitve to saturated fat in while controling carbs, you're not. this isnt even debatable, the studies are out there and pretty much irrefutable. but I suspect something else is going on in your case...

You may have hit the answer a few messages ago. I must be a mutant.

You may have hit the answer a few messages ago. I must be a mutant.

Well I sure don wanna be like some mutant ridin' his little bike all over the place.

Please pass the deep-fried pork skins and let me take my nap.

too bad warren can't put down the donuts long enough to back up his arguments with even one bonafide study...

In fact, I was on Atkins prior to my chest pain. I was following the program religiously (much as I am following what I do right now). The Atkins program almost killed me. Here's something to chew on...

http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/47/Closing_Off_His_Heart_To_the_Atkins_Diet.htm

I'm not the guy mentioned in the link, but its pretty close to what happened to me, with the exception that I caught it before any coronary damage occured.

I'm a big fan of high fat diets although I should make a disclosure. A couple of years ago I was having serious issues with my liver and when your liver is at its limit THEN fat consumption can be undesirable. Not for long term though. Your liver NEEDS fat for fuel but in my case when it was seriously stressed from heavy duty mercury detoxification I had to be careful.

Now to be totaly honest though it was PROCCESSED vegetable oils that were the worst to deal with and so I had to give up on eating out. A little beef tallow, extra virgin olive oil or virgin coconut oil was OK in moderation but I still had to take it easy.

So, cause and effect. I don't doubt you when you say you had issues with a high fat diet that lead to heart issues but what was the real cause. A stressed liver DOES have implications for the heart and if you had started to detoxify heavy metals through the Atkins diet then that would have had heart implications too. I have in the past assocciated some chest pain with the times I knew I was detoxing mercury. It's a common situation.

Chlorella is a powerful natural food that helps many to detoxify safely and sauerkraut is know to be of assistance too.

And on a last note, quality is everything. MY high fat diet is full of organic animal foods. Most of them raw so infact I am getting vitC from my animal foods.

Regards, Anthony

I am really surprised that no one in this discussion (especially the lo-carb diet followers) has brought up the concept of thermogenesis (aka the metabolic advantage) that is beginning to question the idea that the "a calorie is a calorie" idea might not be entirely true. Any proponents out there? Anyone done any research? Found studies?

I am really surprised that no one in this discussion (especially the lo-carb diet followers) has brought up the concept of thermogenesis (aka the metabolic advantage) that is beginning to question the idea that the "a calorie is a calorie" idea might not be entirely true. Any proponents out there? Anyone done any research? Found studies?

I never brought that up, because, from my experience, it's a dubious notion.. I'm more inclined to believe the reason low carb diets work to the degree that they do is because you naturally end up eating less calories than any other type of diet. The fat, or perahps the protein, satisfies your hunger, and you end up pushing away the plate sooner, and those sugary confectionaries (let's just call them donuts, ok, w?) don't appeal at all. there may be some slight "metabolic advantage," but I dont think it counts for all that much. I think Dr. A was reaching a bit on this point.

just my opionion tho.

but wait, I thought a low carb diet causes you to lose muscle and makes it impossible to exercise more than a short while (someone keeps mentioning 5 hour bike rides). I'm not much on worshipping hollywood idols, but when you look at his results and especially who he's banging, it's hard to argue...



http://www.shapefit.com/brad-pitt-diet-secrets.html

Brad Pitt Diet Secrets - Learn Hollywood Weight Loss Tips!

In order for Brad Pitt to get ready for the role in the movie Troy, He nixed cigarettes and sharply cut back on beer and chips, although he did allow himself the occasional treat: McFlurry shakes from McDonald's, "though it was more for a little taste of home, you know, a little Americana."

Brad used a low-carb, high-protein diet during the training for his role. Physically, Pitt prepared for the role with a year of intense training. "The first three months were daunting and not fun at all." His days included two to three hours in the gym, two additional hours of sword work and four high-protein, low-carb meals. As a result, he gained about 10 pounds of brawn.

In order to get that muscular and shredded look for the movie "Fight Club", Brad used this intense workout routine below for amazing results:

Monday - Chest
3 - 25 push ups
3 - nautilus press 45,55,65
3 - nautilus incline press 55,65,70
3 - pec deck machine 40,45,50

Tuesday - Back
3 - 5 pull ups
3 - seated rows 75,80,85
3 - lat pull downs 85,90,95
3 - t bar rows 50,55,60

Wednesday - Shoulders
3 - arnold press 35,35,35
3 - laterals 15,15,15
3 - front raises 10,10,10

Thursday - Biceps & Triceps
3 - nautilus curl machine 20,25,30
3 - ez curls cable 30,35,40
3 - hammer curls 15,20,25
3 - push downs 50,55,60

Friday
Treadmill 45 minutes 65-75% MHR

Sat/Sun off

Reps Range From 20

-30 reps on all exercises

keep in mind pitt was on this diet for the specific goal of looking a certain way for a relatively brief period of time. Look at any bodybuilder, they go to a very low carb diet as they are cutting for a contest, always running at the edge of ketosis. It gets them the results that they need for one night of competition, but in the long run it's not healthy and it's not sustainable.

I didn't bother reading this whole thread after the first two pages when the staggering amounts of misinformation turned me off, but I will say that there is a place for low carb diets (namely making a rapid body composition change in order to achieve a certain look for a relatively brief period of time). Not as a lifestyle change however, or as a healthy, long-term sustainable plan.

I dont know what a low carb diet is.. And think that its a rediculous use of the word.. People throw it out like the bann of all carbs is going to be the savor of the world..Yet have no idea of what I carb is..Theres a secretary at work who thinks that she is on a low carb diet who eats a big salad with cut vegatables every day for lunch along with some chicken or tuna on it.. No carbs for me she says.I tell her that 90% of her lunch are carbs.. No she says.This is low carb no bread!! No potatoes!! She has a peice of fruit mid morning and mid afternoon normally an apple or orange, low carb she says, no donuts or bagels for me.. Now shes eating sensibly and telling everyone that she lost weight on a low carb diet so whos to argue, but she could have just as well gotten that diet from a low fat high carb book as from a low carb high protein book..
Ive seen others on the so called low carb high fat high protein diet put a pound or more of processed cold cuts in front of themselves and feast away, glorious in their self discipline of putting no bread around it..Nice fresh Italian bread vs processed cold cuts, me Id rather eat the bread with a little salad..
One thing though does strike me in reading these threads and talking to some to some on the Atkins diet and the tone taken is that I can see some of the high protein crowd at a party with the good Reverend Jim Jones saying yes Reverend steak for breakfast, lunch, and dinner is great it can not harm us and the coolaid was great and Ill pass it along..

I dont know what a low carb diet is.. And think that its a rediculous use of the word.. People throw it out like the bann of all carbs is going to be the savor of the world..

This is exactly why this thread is never going to die... every day or two someone will read through some of it and get all fired up... then make them selves look foolish with a reply.

Here is a classic case of someone talking trash about low carb dieting, when in the very first sentance they admit that they don't know what a low carb diet is... Obviously he does not have a clue, he uses the term low carbs then refers to "the ban of all carbs" Then he talks negatively about a coworker trying to loose weight... making fun because she eats salads on her low carb diet....

I think we have a winner!!!!

Mike

Holy cow! The world is round!!!

Where is the Bonk???

Today I destroyed my solo ride distance record.... today my fat a__ peddled 77 miles!!! it took me 4hours and 32 minutes. (with one 15 minute break in the middle) I could have gone for 80... or possibly even 85 but it started getting dark out. While the last 10 miles or so were not the most enjoyable, I still felt great at the end of the ride... got a tiny bit dehydrated at the end (was out of water for the last 10 miles)...

It is an amazing thing when my body is running off a bottomless pit of fat on my body...

"You can't do an endourance sport like distance cycling on a low carb, high fat diet."

Yeah... Right.

Mike

Oh yeah, my average was 16.8mph, and i had at least a 10mph head wind for half of the ride.

Hey Mike,..I did not make fun of her attempt at weight loss, only her belief that she is not eating carbohydrates.Thats what her salad and fruits are, mostly carbohydrates.And its exactly what she would probably be eating on a so called low fat diet...So I dont know what a low fat diet nor a low carb are as both appear the same sometimes..!!You no carb fanatics cant seem to fathom that!!Hence the reference to Jim Jones and coolaid.. And you walked right into it!! Attempt at a little humour, so lighten up.Talk about winners.You take the cake, or is that steak..

I could care less what you eat.. Have steak for morning noon and night, make sure the dinner steak is at least 24 ounces...Top it off with mid night snack of a couple of eggs.. According to Freddy theres no evidence it will do you any harm.Im not making fun.. You can be the poster child one way or the other.. Stay on it for a year or so to give it a good chance to work one way or the other....If your healthy in a year than Freddy would be proven right.. If not well you drank the coolaid..

Hey Mike,..I did not make fun of her attempt at weight loss, only her belief that she is not eating carbohydrates.Thats what her salad and fruits are, mostly carbohydrates.And its exactly what she would probably be eating on a so called low fat diet...So I dont know what a low fat diet nor a low carb are as both appear the same sometimes..!!You no carb fanatics cant seem to fathom that!!Hence the reference to Jim Jones and coolaid.. And you walked right into it!! Attempt at a little humour, so lighten up.Talk about winners.You take the cake, or is that steak..

I could care less what you eat.. Have steak for morning noon and night, make sure the dinner steak is at least 24 ounces...Top it off with mid night snack of a couple of eggs.. According to Freddy theres no evidence it will do you any harm.Im not making fun.. You can be the poster child one way or the other.. Stay on it for a year or so to give it a good chance to work one way or the other....If your healthy in a year than Freddy would be proven right.. If not well you drank the coolaid..


You still have no clue... you think that your coworker does not know she is eating carbs with the salad? No carb fanatcs? you have issues dude...

LOL!

Mike

Holy cow! The world is round!!!

Where is the Bonk???

Today I destroyed my solo ride distance record.... today my fat a__ peddled 77 miles!!! it took me 4hours and 32 minutes. (with one 15 minute break in the middle) I could have gone for 80... or possibly even 85 but it started getting dark out. While the last 10 miles or so were not the most enjoyable, I still felt great at the end of the ride... got a tiny bit dehydrated at the end (was out of water for the last 10 miles)...

It is an amazing thing when my body is running off a bottomless pit of fat on my body...

"You can't do an endourance sport like distance cycling on a low carb, high fat diet."

Yeah... Right.

Mike

Oh yeah, my average was 16.8mph, and i had at least a 10mph head wind for half of the ride.

I've done that ride IN HILLS with a higher average speed on a leisurely day in less time. There's your bonk. ;)

Koffee

OK I have been keeping track of all the foods that I eat in my attempt to reach a healthy weight; carbs is one of the categories I have been looking at. I am curious what low carb really means. I believe that you guys have not eliminated all carbs, but allow for some. On average how many grams of carbs does one restrict themselves to be considred on a low carb diet. I am not looking for exact science or accuracy just a general ball park figure of what low carb means to the people who use low carb as a way of life, or just as a way to lose some extra fat.
Thank you

Interesting journal article from the European Heart Journal (1997) 18, 18-22,
'The low fat/low cholesterol diet is ineffective' http://www.omen.com/corr.html

First, that's a pretty old paper. It's been a long time since that article was written, and there have been advances in the field of nutrition.

Second... duh (to the article)! They didn't mention anything about exercise. You can modestly decrease LDL by restricting saturated fat, but if you haven't done anything to raise HDL, you're still going to be at risk for cardiac problems. Just because you lower one component (LDL), doesn't mean the other (HDL) will increase. The key here is exercise- how much and how high an intensity? It's difficult to even deal with this article, since there are very good articles out there (and studies) that study the effect of diet and exercise on LDL and HDL.

Koffee

I feel like today was about spot on to where I want to be, maybe a few more calories in total.
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=tekhna&Year=2006&Month=0&Day=28
I know the total eaten is less than expended, but I really think that "lifestyle" calorie count is generous. Maybe I am a little high on the carbs, but I already had a ton of protein today, and to come anywhere near the calorie totals I might need, that would mean a lot of really fatty food if I were to cut carbs.

How bout Harvard? People trust them dont they?
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/index.html

Good reading, complete with the so called needed studies.

eh, as we all know, there are a bazillion studies and journal articles to support anything. Here's a brand newey which sums up all the misconceptions concerning cholesterol: http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/colpo.pdf

OK I have been keeping track of all the foods that I eat in my attempt to reach a healthy weight; carbs is one of the categories I have been looking at. I am curious what low carb really means. I believe that you guys have not eliminated all carbs, but allow for some. On average how many grams of carbs does one restrict themselves to be considred on a low carb diet. I am not looking for exact science or accuracy just a general ball park figure of what low carb means to the people who use low carb as a way of life, or just as a way to lose some extra fat.
Thank you

For me low carb doesn't mean counting anything. To me it means cutting out the starches and grains but still eating "vegetable" vegetables and I eat a little fruit like blueberries, grapefruit and some dates or other dried fruit on big rides.

I just don't miss bread at all except maybe the sheer convenience factor because its everywhere but I realy don't enjoy it. Potato's are gone. I mean potato crisps are just C*** anyway. Now if someone par boiled them, sliced them moderately and cooked them in goose fat then maybe I would be in! They can be nice baked in thin slices and layered with cheese.

I'm always cooking meat with onions, garlic, mushrooms and serving with sauerkraut. Cauliflower, brochilli, zuchinni, mushrooms, onions ect are nice cooked in real bone stocks. Dark leafy salad greens with avocado and dressed with extra virgin olive oil.

Realy there are lots of ways to enjoy vegetables and still be considered "low carb". Enjoy a little more fat from butter and olive oil, don't be obssesive about trimming meat of its fat and consume protein moderately.

One of my all time favorite foods, chicken liver pate has a large onion and garlic in the recipe at least.

Regards, Anthony

I've done that ride IN HILLS with a higher average speed on a leisurely day in less time. There's your bonk. ;)

Koffee

Yeah, its still not a "bonk" though. Not the way you high carb fueled riders experience it. I've cerainly got tired on a ride and run out of "GO" but I've never experienced what you people talk about as a bonk except when I worked once for 12 hours overnight without eating and I'd been up for over16 hours. I bonked at the end of that experience.

Regards, Anthony

I've done that ride IN HILLS with a higher average speed on a leisurely day in less time. There's your bonk. ;)

Koffee

Koffee... so what are you trying to say? Are you suggesting that my ride was a "bonk" because you weigh half as much as me and are in much better shape, and can do the ride faster? I guess your idea of a bonk is much different than mine.

My idea of a bonk is when you reach the point of physical exhaustion... To the point where you just have to stop... you can't ride even a few more miles.... you are literally about to fall over. In the beginning of the month you claimed (as a certified intuitionalist...LMAO) that I could not do a low carb diet without bonking on a longer ride. Well I am here to say that once again a certified intuitionalist was proven WRONG

Thanks anyways,

Mike

OK I have been keeping track of all the foods that I eat in my attempt to reach a healthy weight; carbs is one of the categories I have been looking at. I am curious what low carb really means. I believe that you guys have not eliminated all carbs, but allow for some. On average how many grams of carbs does one restrict themselves to be considred on a low carb diet.

Good question... we have been debating on this subject for a month, but still probably 75% of the people have no idea what low carb dieters actually eat!

First, I do not count carbs. There are however certain carb sources that I simply will not eat on the diet... Some examples of these are regular soda, bread, pasta, milk, rice, cereal, tomato sauce, pancakes, fruit,

I eat at least 3 meals a day. often I will eat 4. Each meal I eat some kind of meat with some kind of vegetable.

examples....

Breakfast... coffee (no pun intended :D )... I always have my NORMAL coffee. I pretty much always eat an omlet for breakfast. I believe I can eat them for the rest of my life and not get sick of them. they are my favorite food!!!!!!! usually 4 eggs with all kinds of good stuff mixed in... real butter, sausage, green pepper, red pepper, yellow pepper, jalapeno, onion, cheese, lots and lots of sauted mushrooms, bacon, and of course TOBASCO!!!

Lunch... tuna fish mixed with real mayonase, onions, celery and a nice side salad with normal ranch, italion, vinigerett, ceasar salad dressings.

or another favorite is baked chicken breast with side of brockly and cauliflour.

or another favorite is whatever fish I have in the fridge (I am an avid fisherman) served however I want it with my choice of veggie. I prefer frying my fish more than anything in my deep fat fryer.

or leftovers from the previous nights dinner with a side of fresh vegetables.

Dinner... Dinner is so much fun!!! I will always have some kind of meat at the main part of the meal with a side dish of either brockley or salad. You name it, I will eat it for dinner meat wise... some of my favorites are Steak (with a real butter, onion, mushroom sauce on top) My famous rotiseree rost, deep fried buffalo wings (I can't stop eating these things lately), any fish i have in the fridge, dear, pork chops, ribs, MEAT!!!!

Snack I don't eat many snacks on this diet because generally speaking except for meal times I simply am not hungry!!!!! but when I am, I usually eat some cheese, or a whole cucumber dipped in my favorite salad dressing, or any meat leftovers from another meal.

I can drink all of the diet soda I want. However, I have always been a big water drinker so at least 75% of my drinks in a day are water. And I do drink plenty.... I probably averatge 12 - 8oz cups a day.

In general I experiment with different spices and peppers on most of my meats. I do not use any BBQ sauces, or ketchups, or things like that.


This my friends is an average low carb diet. I suspect that there are many people out there that are absolutely against the idea of low carb dieting because they do not realize that they themselves are already on a low carb diet!!!!!!


Mike

PS. Just running through some numbers in my head, going by how many carbs are in my peppers, onions, brockley, salad, mushrooms, cauliflower, cucumber, and some of my other normal daily foods, I would say my carb count is somewhere around 40-50 carbs per day. (again this varies greatly and is only a guess at this point.)

This my friends is an average low carb diet. I suspect that there are many people out there that are absolutely against the idea of low carb dieting because they do not realize that they themselves are already on a low carb diet!!!!!!

Mike, do you really think that the people in this thread who are disapproving of the "low carb" concept are themselves eating deep-fried meat at every meal and no vegetables to speak of? I can't help but point out that even mrfreddy acknowledges the damage done by trans fats -- which proliferate in your deep fat fryer, especially if you reuse the oil. :(

Do you know what a well-rounded, vegetable-based diet of 55-60% carbo looks like? Or are you in your turn assuming that everyone who eats "high carb" is gorging on Wonder bread and donuts?

Akarius, the Atkins diet Induction phase is what most people think of when they say "low carb". This is strictly limited to no more than 20 grams of carbohydrate per day -- less than 80 calories. While the Atkins plan does have phases in which the carb count is slowly raised to mitigate the rate of weight loss, many people fail to move beyond Induction. This is for many reasons: Atkins says in New Diet Revolution that it's OK not to move beyond Induction, and he says it leads to quicker weight loss; it's easier to get "practically no" carbo than to carefully count net grams to determine your personal optimum level; and because people are frequently "falling off the wagon", after which you must begin again at Induction.

Mike, do you turn the faucet off while you are brushing your teeth? Just curious.

Mike, do you really think that the people in this thread who are disapproving of the "low carb" concept are themselves eating deep-fried meat at every meal and no vegetables to speak of?

It amazes me how some of you are so tied up in your emotions on this subject that you can not even read and comprehend an entry... In my posting giving some examples of what I eat, what exactly led you to believe that I eat deep fried meat at every meal? What in the world led you to believe that there are "no vegetables to speak of?"

If you have a reading disability, I appologize in advance.

Mike

It amazes me how some of you are so tied up in your emotions on this subject that you can not even read and comprehend an entry... In my posting giving some examples of what I eat, what exactly led you to believe that I eat deep fried meat at every meal? What in the world led you to believe that there are "no vegetables to speak of?"

OK, "deep fried meat at every meal" was hyperbole, but only because *meat* at every meal, including deep fried fish as your favorite lunch, and deep fried buffalo wings as your favorite dinner, completely overwhelmed me. :( I didn't realize how much of a paradigm shift I'd undergone in the last few years. The thought of eating like that is incredible to me, it just is. I mean jaw-dropping.

I understand that you're making an effort in order to consume your bell peppers, your broccoli, and your salad. I respect that you are doing this in order to be more healthful. But...I have grown to expect that each meal will be based around a fruit or a vegetable, and I've been known to have dinners incorporating a pound of cooked greens, a cup of legumes, AND four cups or more of tossed salad. In comparison, your side dishes just don't seem like much.

If I stretch, I can imagine a lot of people on the Standard American Diet eating like that, plus a lot of potatoes and pizza dough and white fluffy burger buns, maybe even fewer veggies, and you're right -- you're probably doing a little better than they. But you've implied that many people who don't think "low carb" is healthy, yet eat like you do and think *that's* healthy. I find it very, very hard to believe, *particularly* of the population of this cycling training board.

The thought of eating like that is incredible to me, it just is. I mean jaw-dropping.

I understand that you're making an effort in order to consume your bell peppers, your broccoli, and your salad. I respect that you are doing this in order to be more healthful. But...I have grown to expect that each meal will be based around a fruit or a vegetable, and I've been known to have dinners incorporating a pound of cooked greens, a cup of legumes, AND four cups or more of tossed salad. In comparison, your side dishes just don't seem like much.

... yet eat like you do and think *that's* healthy. I find it very, very hard to believe, *particularly* of the population of this cycling training board.


holy fiber batman, talk about jaw dropping, that's almost 500 grams of carbs in one meal alone.... have you heard of insulin? have you had your blood sugar checked? I worry about you...

Well its your body, you can do to it what ever you please. But if your trying to lose weight, and increase exercise, with a target result of becoming healthier than you are today.......I'd rethink or research more the deep fried parts :)

I'm not a fan of "deep frying" myself. Refined vegetable oils with there damaged/hydrogenated/transfats are realy bad news and I'm an advocate of animal fats anyway. Not refined vegetable oils. Maybe you could find yourself some beef tallow for the deep fryer and use in moderation but gently shallow frying in butter/ghee or lard is tastier anyway as well as being healthier.

Regards, Anthony