Mountain Biking - Hydraulic disc brakes, or mechanical???

I am getting a Santa Cruz Juliana built and need to decide on the components. I currently have mechanical disk breaks on my Cannondale, upgraded from rim. The mechanical disks are MUCH better than the rim brakes were. My bike guy is suggesting I go with the hydraulic. Anyone have any opinion on mechanical vs. hydraulic? Is hydraulic worth the extra cost and are they hard to maintain? Thanks, Michelle

Typo in the header, Dammit! :eek: :rolleyes:

I started out long ago with Avid mechanicals, and they were a big step up from the v-brakes. On my most recent MTB, I run the Shimano XT hyd. They are the bees knees IMHO. I'm a XC guy, so I don't use my brakes that much, but in temps from -20C to +30C, sand, snow, slime, etc. I've had no trouble at all. The mechanicals still have a cable in there, so when that gets grimy, performance suffers. Just my $0.02...

Do you have the intergrated brake/shifters? That's another option. Not sure about them though. I ride in all kinds of envoriments: dry, mud, snow, whatever, so performance consistancy is a good point. Thank!

^^^ Yup, I'm fully integrated. Those rascals work like the dickens for XC [note that my definiton of XC means anything that doesn't involve hucking, a chairlift or shuttling].

The mechanicals still have a cable in there, so when that gets grimy, performance suffers. Just my $0.02...

same happens with hydros, if they feel a little "spongy" you got to bleed them.

i just did the switch. mostly becasue i fell in love with the feel of hydro levers while at my lbs.

hydraulic. they are not hard to maintain. it will be good practice for you to learn how to bleed something anyhow. might come in handy on something else one day.

I'm in love with my Avid Juicy 7 hydro brakes.

No really...I love...these...brakes. The difference between the Juicy 7s and my old Hayes Soles (also Hydro) is hard to put into words, the Avid's are so much better. Shop around, you should be able to get a good deal on them as MSRP is pretty heavily inflated.

Typo in the header, Dammit! :eek: :rolleyes:

There were two, but who's counting? :D

There were two, but who's counting? :D


Double Dammit!! :D That's my publik skool edumacashun four u.

I'm happy with my Avid mechanicals. I'm not a pro and I'm not at the point where I feel I need the best.

I'd go for hydros. My bike came with Avid Juicy 7s and I also thought it'd be a hassle to bleed them etc.... For one, they don't need bleeding very often.... and secondly, it's actually very very simple to bleed them. Just buy the bleed kit and off you go!

If you're happy with mechanicals, why bother switching? I'll just point out a few practical things:

With mechanical discs, you get to choose any lever you want. And if you have a bad stack and break a lever, they're dirt cheap. You can also store your bike upside down for as long as you want. When your wheel is off, you don't need to worry about some yahoo squeezing your lever and locking the pads together. A replacement brake line costs about $3.

Hydraulics provide better modulation. Multi-piston designs can provide more stopping power, but how much do you need? We use Avid mechanicals with XT 203mm rotors on our tandem. They stop us just fine. I'm not opposed to hydraulics, as we have a set of Magura brakes for our tandem. I just haven't gotten around to ordering the braided lines.

I like Mechanicals, they stop you, take a little longer but they get the job done. Hydros are kinda wierd to me cuase I hit the lever and I fly off my seat. Might just be becuase I am not used to such a sudden stop.

Sounds like crappy brakes to me. Both of whatever ones you're referring to.

I am getting a Santa Cruz Juliana built and need to decide on the components. I currently have mechanical disk breaks on my Cannondale, upgraded from rim. The mechanical disks are MUCH better than the rim brakes were. My bike guy is suggesting I go with the hydraulic. Anyone have any opinion on mechanical vs. hydraulic? Is hydraulic worth the extra cost and are they hard to maintain? Thanks, Michelle

Depends on what riding you are intending to do. By the sound of it, i don't think you really need the hydraulics, but its up to you. If you are looking for mechanicals, go with the best ones out there... Avid BB7s.

I am getting a Santa Cruz Juliana built and need to decide on the components. I currently have mechanical disk breaks on my Cannondale, upgraded from rim. The mechanical disks are MUCH better than the rim brakes were. My bike guy is suggesting I go with the hydraulic. Anyone have any opinion on mechanical vs. hydraulic? Is hydraulic worth the extra cost and are they hard to maintain? Thanks, Michelle


if your budget supports it, go hydro. if not, mecahnical. i just recently swapped from a paul love lever/avid bb7 setup on two bikes, to avid juicy-5 setups on both. i now *much* prefer the hydros. that said, i've not really tried other hydros. the juicy's are quite nice though, and were dead simple to setup and bleed (had to shorten the lines on one set) with the juicy bleed kit. worth it, in my opinion.

if mechs: avid bb7 paired up with some decent levers and a good quality stainless cable setup, with full housing runs.

caveat: the cost of doing the above isn't too much less than a decent set up hydros anyhow........

Standard answer reposted yet again
The Avid BB7 is sufficient for what 95% of the riders here do on a regular basis.
I have never been disappointed with the braking power or modulation of these brakes. Smoothness and control are simply functions of lever choice and cable selection. With the right selection they can even rival hydraulics.
Pair them up with a set of Avid levers (such as the FR-5 which is specifically designed for the Ball Bearing Disc or one of the Speed Dial series for extra tuning options) and a set of Dry Cables and you're golden.
In terms of ease of maintenance the Avids are second to NONE. The adjustment knobs give you superior "no tool" tunablilty. as a bonus cable brakes are also easier to work on in terms of "in the field" repairs owing to the fact that you can easily get a replacement cable and / or lever at any Mom and Pop bike shop (heck you could go to K-mart and get parts that would work to get you back on the trail that day.)

Who wants to mess with brake fluid in the boonies?

Standard answer reposted yet again
The Avid BB7 is sufficient for what 95% of the riders here do on a regular basis.
I have never been disappointed with the braking power or modulation of these brakes. Smoothness and control are simply functions of lever choice and cable selection. With the right selection they can even rival hydraulics.
Pair them up with a set of Avid levers (such as the FR-5 which is specifically designed for the Ball Bearing Disc or one of the Speed Dial series for extra tuning options) and a set of Dry Cables and you're golden.
In terms of ease of maintenance the Avids are second to NONE. The adjustment knobs give you superior "no tool" tunablilty. as a bonus cable brakes are also easier to work on in terms of "in the field" repairs owing to the fact that you can easily get a replacement cable and / or lever at any Mom and Pop bike shop (heck you could go to K-mart and get parts that would work to get you back on the trail that day.)

Who wants to mess with brake fluid in the boonies?

I would think if you have kevlar and braided hoses you wouldn't have too.

Yeah,

hydraulics are good if your hands are small or you want extra stopping power really quickly if your, let's say, trailing or going cross country. Although they have the fluid in them, I think it's worth the little extra maintinence for the braking power and I've got small hands.

I recently got my Hayes HFX-9 Cabon hydros and they are amazing. I rode 50 miles yesterday, quite often through foot-deep mud and they were great. There was a bit of rubbing at the end of the ride but I was told that it was normal for disc brakes (I ended up taking out the pads and pushing the pistons back manually and now they run smoother than before). After that I rode my friend's stumpy with Avid rims brakes and flew past the turn is was trying to make...HUGE DIFFERENCE. My vote goes to the hydros!

that was everything i used to think about my avid mechs.

......until i swapped them out for a set of avid juicy-5 brakes. ;)

yeah, the mechs work just fine, and aren't problematic at all. in fact, i had both my sets of mechs (two bikes worth) set up very nicely with full housing runs, and paul love levers. they felt great! and worked great. and i sold them for nearly enough to pay for the new juicy setup. if you are on a budget, mechs can save a bit of cash, but that margin of cahs difference seems to grow narrower every season.

the juicys feel even better. better modulation, still super easy to setup and maintain (if anything, i've had less trouble setting the juicys up; and that is saying alot, as the mechs are pretty d@mn easy to set up).

i've not noticed any increase or decrease in power. (kept the same rotor sizes) and i have yet to have any trouble with them.

if you do something while riding to pull apart some hydro hose (this used to be the main reason i didn't want to switch), you very likely would have messed up a cable system as well. i've yet to see anyone actually mess up a hydro line, and i've been riding with plenty of people using hydros for a long time. so long as you run your hoses properly, not too short and not too long, should be a non-issue.

Is hydraulic worth the extra cost and are they hard to maintain?

Yes and no.

Around here the price diffference between the BB7 and juicy5 is not-so-much. Given that you ride in Alaska (?) I'd take the plunge and go full-hydro. I've found they work a little better than cable-disks at low temperatures, and in the muck.

Avid Bb7's, like Raiyn said, are the best choice.

I have some Hayes mechs before. They were fine. Worked without a problem. I upgraded to some Hayes-9 carbons because I tried my friends out and loved them.

Like i said, nothing wrong with the mechs. But the hydros are sooooo much better. Smoother, easier to stop, basically maintenance free. It's more of a pain if you want to trim the line, for sure. But the riding experience is definitely much improved.

hayes 9 or el camino for xc. your wont be sorry. \m/\m/- do your research first though check out the sitez.

I've found they work a little better than cable-disks at low temperatures, and in the muck.
There should be no difference in performance due to temperature when it comes to cable discs. This is especially true if a system like Dry-Cables is used.

Oh, forget the confusion. Do it Flintstone style.

There should be no difference in performance due to temperature when it comes to cable discs. This is especially true if a system like Dry-Cables is used.


but "should be" and what happens in reality sometimes bear no relationship to one another. i ride in the cold a fair bit, and find the hydros work better all around.

you're from florida. have you ridden hydros and cables in much below freezing wheather? i have, and the hydros performed better. even with fully covered and sealed cables on the mech system. when it's that cold/wet, you can still get a bit of sticking at the lever and caliper ends of the system from water and trail gunk that gets thrown up onto the system.

still think the avid mechs are a great brake, but now that i've swapped for a decent set of hydros, there is no comparison. hydros kick ass. i'd not go back to cable unless i was on an extremely tight budget to build a bike.

You guys are all great, I love the different viewpoints. I do know my mech disks don't work at well in the cold either, bike guy put a lube on them to help performance in the cold and to help seal up the ends to keep the guck out. I think I'm leaning towards hydro, don't really want to do the flintstone thing - HA!

you're from florida. :rolleyes:Why does everyone always say that?
No, I LIVE in Florida, I'm FROM Minnesota. (Read a profile sometime) You assume that I've never lived anywhere else. Unfortunately you're not the first to assume this incorrectly either. I lived for over half my life in Northeastern Minnesota before moving here and ridden in conditions as cold as -50 BEFORE the wind chill (For the record: Not fun I don't recommend it)

. when it's that cold/wet, you can still get a bit of sticking at the lever and caliper ends of the system from water and trail gunk that gets thrown up onto the system. You'd have the same issues with a hydro system as the levers still have a hinge pivot and the pistons can get gunk in them just as easily as a mechanical; which in practice, is not enough to bother either system. On the other hand the viscosity in hydraulic fluid does change with temperature and all hydraulic fluids have a range in which they best operate.
You like them and that's fine for you, but to suggest that weather would degrade the performance of a mechanical brake to any degree more than a hydro simply isn't true. With a good cable system potential problems are mitigated to the point of almost being a total non-issue. Now with a conventional cable system (bare unlubed cables & unlined housing) I'd agree. However, with a sealed system such as I suggested you'd be fine regardless of the weather

wow. touchy, much? i guess i should have inserted a smiley in my previous post...... perhaps i should have written things differently; i wasn't assuming that you'd led your whole life in florida.
reread what i've written. it's based on my experience, not anyone elses. the OP asked for reccomendations and opinions, and i'm giving mine. my post wasn't meant to be attacking you or whatever you percieve it to have been.

in my experience, yes, hydros work better than mech in cold. i've run fully sealed cables. in the cold, i'll stick with hydro, based on *my* experience. i found the external moving parts of the mechs to be the parts that grunged up the works. my mechs were pretty simple to keep running optimally, my hydros have proven to me to be even more so.

blanket statements (which i see alot of concerning all sorts of things on this forum) and assumptions from either side of the mechanical vs. hydro fence do no one any good. and yes, i'm including myself in that.
i still stick with my statement of what should be and what happens in reality are not always the same thing.

The little cable-pull arm on the BB7s I was using has frozen a couple of times. No such arm and no such issue with either Hayes Mags or Juicy5s.

my XT hydro discs have been a lot better than my Deore mech discs for cold weather commuting- the mech discs became very sluggish at colder temperatures - could have been a cable issue or the cable-pull-arm I don't know.

There are a whole bunch of other people in the commuter section that use Avid mechs exclusively year round with no cold weather issues. It's a matter of preperation

Preparation is key to any extreme weather riding.

There are a whole bunch of other people in the commuter section that use Avid mechs exclusively year round with no cold weather issues. It's a matter of preperation

Okay, so now if I want to run these incredible cable brakes, I need to get a particular type of cable (which is not available at your average mom & pop shop) and do preparation to ensure they work properly in colder temperatures? You made it sound so simple before - now I'm starting to become disenchanted.

Okay, so now if I want to run these incredible cable brakes, I need to get a particular type of cable (which is not available at your average mom & pop shop) and do preparation to ensure they work properly in colder temperatures? You made it sound so simple before - now I'm starting to become disenchanted.
I'm not sure if you're just pulling my leg here, but I'll play along.

The cables can be ordered by any shop (tell them they're like Gore-Ride On's and they SHOULD understand) , if for some reason you need to run a different cable they will work FINE with the teflon sheath, and the only other real prep you need to do is drip a little Boeshield (works great) or similar product where the lever hinges and at the area that the caliper arm swings through. This will keep moisture from adhereing to the surface. DO BE CAREFUL NOT TO GET ANY OF THE LUBRICANT ON THE PADS / ROTORS

You have to prepare yourself to ride in lousy weather, your bike is no different

I'm not pulling your leg, I honestly wonder at what point cable brakes stop being the cats meow for you?

And I just checked BTI and QBP, no mention of Dry-Cables that I can find.

I'm not pulling your leg, I honestly wonder at what point cable brakes stop being the cats meow for you?

And I just checked BTI and QBP, no mention of Dry-Cables that I can find.

They stop being the cat's meow when I can fix hydros with parts from Kmart when the bike shop's closed. I've said a million times before: Avid mechanicals are adequate for what 95% of what the people here really ride

Any shop (heck anybody reading this) can order Dry Cables (http://www.drycables.com/html/products___ordering.html) from their website. They even offer wholesale pricing to shops / distributors. You can't tell me that you've never done business directly with a company before.

I guess I'm just one of the 5% who need hydraulics, although I don't understand how you derived that number. I can, however, say with absolutely equal certainty that 95% of people with hydros will never go back to mechanicals. Further, I would go on to state that 95% of people with mechanicals will never break a cable or housing and need to go to Kmart to find parts. Combine that with the performance advantages of hydros and the playing field starts to level slightly. Which is all I'm after, after all.

Further, I would go on to state that 95% of people with mechanicals will never break a cable or housing and need to go to Kmart to find parts. Combine that with the performance advantages of hydros and the playing field starts to level slightly. Which is all I'm after, after all.
I guess I'm in that 5% then, because I've had to. Also what happens if you break a lever? I can go to any shop anywhere and use any V-brake lever on the market and be back riding that day while you have to order replacement parts. There isn't enough of a performance advantage to get me to switch over, if they're good enough to be rated for tandems they're good enough for me to ride with

I guess I'm just one of the 5% who need hydraulics, although I don't understand how you derived that number. I can, however, say with absolutely equal certainty that 95% of people with hydros will never go back to mechanicals. Further, I would go on to state that 95% of people with mechanicals will never break a cable or housing and need to go to Kmart to find parts. Combine that with the performance advantages of hydros and the playing field starts to level slightly. Which is all I'm after, after all.

Agree on most points there. I'm not really worried about a broken cable on the tandem, but I will switch to hydros with braided lines at some point. Too many times, people get caught up on the financial aspect. Price is not an issue for many of us. And if something is broken and the bike shop is closed, oh well. I've still got a stack of other bikes to ride, or I can drive to another shop. At least in SoCal, there were several shops open on Sunday.

I've said a million times before: Avid mechanicals are adequate for what 95% of what the people here really ride




aaaaaand that is the key. yeah, they are adequate; h#ll, i loved mine - never had any real problems with them. but the Juicy setup has the same power, with less lever pressure required to get it (kept the same rotor sizes). and boatloads more modulation, yes, even when using Speed Dial levers with the mechs. i so much prefer the feel at the lever on the Juicys compared to the BB7 it isn't even a contest. after swapping one bike, and riding it for a week in sedona, i swapped the other bike over about a week later. again, this is all coming from someone who until about three months ago thought the same as you do.

spare parts? not a big deal. i do the same thing i did with my mechs. i have a spare set of hoses and fittings in my parts bin. and so long as you have hydros that are pretty common such as Hayes or Avid stuff, it isn't that freakin' hard to find spare lever blades if you mess one up. it's a non-issue for me. in over 12 years of offroad riding, i've bent a few levers, but never broken one.

it's all opinion anyhow. the OP is going to buy whatever he ends up finding suitable for his riding and budget. *just as the rest of us have done.* i'm not trying to change your mind, 'cause i can tell it won't happen, just stating my opinions. stick to your mechs; if they work for you , that is all that matters.

(FWIW and IMO, i've found gore cables to be cr@p in the past. the hot setup for my mechs was full length kevlar braided housing with sealed end caps, stainless braided cables, and then sealing up the housing cap/housing junctures with heat shrink tubing. cables pulled by Paul Components LoveLevers; never liked the Speed Dial feature on the Avid levers when i had them. smooooooooth.) where i had problems woud be getting gunk in the caliper actuation arm, and gunk making the pad adjust dials stick. now, got my levers and pad contact set on the Juicys. no messing with that stuff any more; self adjusting pads are a nice thing.

There are a whole bunch of other people in the commuter section that use Avid mechs exclusively year round with no cold weather issues. It's a matter of preperation

Indeed. There are also a lot who ride on brakeless fixies they built from 1950s-era french road bikes with gigantic brooks saddles and slick tires in the snow. There are also some that ride only $50 wal-mart bikes in the winter to avoid getting salt on their main rides. I consider both of these courses of action a bit hazardous, but whatever floats their boat.

Sorry man, I think the BB7s are an amazing brake, and cables are indeed easier to service on the road. But once I've used hydraulic brakes I'll forever endorse them.

I know hydros are better. I have old XTR integrated trigger shifter brake/shifter pods that have v-brake cables and work very well. I want to throw these on a new race frame I'm building up. To upgrade to hydros I'd have to basically get all new shifters/brakes/etc. Should I just buy the Avid mechanicals and new cables or invest almost $1000 in a whole new set up? What I'm asking is, is there that much of a difference that would warrant that kind of investment? This is for a XC race bike and I'm not that wealthy.

I know hydros are better. I have old XTR integrated trigger shifter brake/shifter pods that have v-brake cables and work very well. I want to throw these on a new race frame I'm building up. To upgrade to hydros I'd have to basically get all new shifters/brakes/etc. Should I just buy the Avid mechanicals and new cables or invest almost $1000 in a whole new set up? What I'm asking is, is there that much of a difference that would warrant that kind of investment? This is for a XC race bike and I'm not that wealthy.
how are you figuring 1000?