Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - skidding and skipping

So I'm not much of a fixed trickster, just a basic rider. And I know the basic approach one's supposed to take when skidding. But I've not been able to accomplish the feat, and I recently began wondering if maybe I wasn't quite getting it. Are you supposed to actually put your weight over the front wheel? Is that the one skidding? Or are you putting your weight forward and forcing down the back wheel? Or is it a combination of both. Every time I've tried, I get my groin forward, but the bars start wobbling like crazy. Just trying to get a better picture of the physics of it...

And what about skipping? How exactly do you lift the rear wheel? Do you have to actually throw your head forward? Hands on the flats, tops of the drops, or does is not matter?

http://amybolger.com/kindaspecial/image/8.jpg

Whee!

Wait until it rains, or find a grassy park or sandy bit of land or something. Just ride and lock the pedals when they get to 3 and 9 o'clock (push down on your trailing foot, pull up on your leading). You'll skid a bit, and then you'll know what it feels like, from which point you can mess around. It works differently for different people, but the longest skids usually do come from a position similar to the one pictured above.

Also, if you change your gearing (bigger cog), you may find it easier to lock the wheels.

you could try searching too. That helps a lot.

skidding for distance is different than skidding to stop.
for distance you want most of your weight way forward, so the the rear wheel is barely touching the ground.

skidding to stop you want the the most weight possible over the rear wheel (and skipping will stop you faster than skidding).

yea...I like to keep my weight as far BaCk as possible....more important is using your whole body to push on that back pedal and pull up on that front


forward leaning skids are actually not very fun to me at all


speaking of 'tricks' though...I just today got the hang of trackstanding with the front tire canted toward the opposite side than my forward foot (despite being able to no-hand trackstand pretty well)...was a very awkward feeling at first, but I just had to get used to continuing to leaning my weight toward the direction of the wheel cant with the opposite foot forward

I never learned to skip. How do you do the endo? Do you just wait until 3 and 9 and then jump from the back?

(I like my brake)

try it with out hands. thats how i learned.

i dunno, i thought they were pretty easy things to learn. ummm...one thing that helped me a lot was to try to lock up the wheel BEFORE the pedals got to 3 and 9. then, by the time i started pulling up in front/pushing down in back, the pedals were in the 3 and 9 position, instead of past.

unweight the rear wheel to skip, lean forward to skid a distance (but not to stop quickly).

that's about all i know. it's weirdly intuitive for me. so i wish i could help more.

I never learned to skip. How do you do the endo? Do you just wait until 3 and 9 and then jump from the back?

(I like my brake)


skipping is arguably the most fun of all...

I wouldn't consider an 'endo' involved...you release your weight from the bike and then pull up on your pedals to pick the back of the bike up...
sometimes it feels as if I just leave my leg stiff so that the rear wheel throws me up just a bit instead of me 'jumping', and then 'stick it to the ground' and then allow the wheel to turn again

skipping is arguably the most fun of all...

And skidding/skipping on the Michelin Eriliums is the icing...ZZZZZZZZZIPPPPP!

go to tompkins.i just left and there are some nice little ice patches to skid on.

IMO

Skidding = Fun and for showing off
Skipping = Practical for stopping

unweight the rear wheel to skip, lean forward to skid a distance (but not to stop quickly).

that's about all i know. it's weirdly intuitive for me. so i wish i could help more.

Unfortunately, that's my problem: it's not intuitive for me at all. I didn't learn to ride a bike until I was 11, and didn't really do it at all until a few years ago (I'm in my early 30s.) These kinds of things are harder for a body to learn at my age, and the consequences of messing up are far more painful. I tried taking up skateboarding at age 22, and that ended in a painful lesson in the necessity of knowing how to stop and just how painful road rash can be when mixed with T-shirt cotton.

Thanks for the tips. I've read many of the posts previously, my question was specifically about my weight, which I've never read much about. Next time I'll make use of the very useful BF search engine and look for something like "skipping skidding weight distribution or maybe locking the legs/pedals how to lift the back wheel," etc.

That was sarcasm: if you think it's a dumb question, there's really no requirement to answer. As genericdude's additional question indicates, one person asking doesn't indicate that only one person can't get it. [Just because you've figured this out for yourself doesn't mean that it comes naturally to everyone. So many fixie riders talk about the 'tude that they get from the 'scene' and then they go and make some snide remark themselves.]
As someone who's seen the pics/videos and real-life skids of many people, and tried on some (not a lot) of occasions to skid without success, I thought I maybe wasn't getting some subtlety--like a weight shift.

Two more questions: some form of clips/straps/clipless pedals necessary for skipping? And...anyone know if lighter riders more subject to wobbly skidding than heavier riders? (I'm on the lighter side.) Or is it more a question of leg strength/stiffness?

I'm pretty skinny and I don't have many problems with wobbly handlebars, tho if my weights a little of center my back wheel slips to the side. You just have to have good balance.

If you havent seen the site: http://www.63xc.com/gregg/101_1.htm
check it out. It was really helpful to me when I was first riding fixed.

and while not necessary per se, I really recommend getting some clips and straps. Though you should learn how to skid without them, in case you need to stop suddenly before you've gotten both your feet in the pedals.

Two more questions: some form of clips/straps/clipless pedals necessary for skipping? And...anyone know if lighter riders more subject to wobbly skidding than heavier riders? (I'm on the lighter side.) Or is it more a question of leg strength/stiffness?[/QUOTE]

yes, clips and straps are key. wait till your pedals are at 9-3 and push down with your back foot, at the same time lift up on your straps with your front foot. this will cause you to skid a little. worry about all the leaning forward stuff later.

Thanks for the help and info everyone. I think I'm going to work on skipping first, because all I really care about is stopping, not styling :).

i do the motions at 12-6. never really figured it out until it was wet outside. and have clipless or straps.

I remember throwing around the term "commit" a lot when trying to assist people in more intimidating tricks... so I know it's annoying... But all I can really suggest is go faster, lean farther forward... and commit.
Once you get the hang of less functional (leaning forward) skids you will learn the rest in succession.

The rain will really help you too.

I only suggested the search because your question, regardless or your age, weight, or how it's distributed, is asked on the form at least once or twice a week. I posted the pic of the extreme skid because its the easiest way to learn to break the rear wheel and get a feel for what you're trying to accomplish.

Oh.. my other suggestion is don't run breaks.
But that's just me.

It encourages you to use what you learn... rely on it...know what I'm saying?

When I was learning I used bullhorns and I put the brake all the way at the end of the bulhorn, on the underside of the bar. That way I had to reach for it if I wanted to use it. Weaned myself off it pretty quick. Bullhorns are good to learn skids on, just cuz it makes it easy to get your weight way forward.

I learned to skip first, then once coming down the Willy Bridge I wanted to start slowing down, and I had just been riding with some fellas who were skidding to slow down, so I just went for it based on what I had seen others doing, and right then and there I started skidding...after you do it once you get the hang pretty quickly.

And yeah, bullhorns seem like they would be easier, especially narrow ones like I'm using.

all I really care about is stopping, not styling :).


Ah,...the lack of curve is antithetical to the aesthetic to me.
:p

Unfortunately, that's my problem: it's not intuitive for me at all. I didn't learn to ride a bike until I was 11, and didn't really do it at all until a few years ago (I'm in my early 30s.) These kinds of things are harder for a body to learn at my age, and the consequences of messing up are far more painful. I tried taking up skateboarding at age 22, and that ended in a painful lesson in the necessity of knowing how to stop and just how painful road rash can be when mixed with T-shirt cotton.

Thanks for the tips. I've read many of the posts previously, my question was specifically about my weight, which I've never read much about. Next time I'll make use of the very useful BF search engine and look for something like "skipping skidding weight distribution or maybe locking the legs/pedals how to lift the back wheel," etc.

That was sarcasm: if you think it's a dumb question, there's really no requirement to answer. As genericdude's additional question indicates, one person asking doesn't indicate that only one person can't get it. [Just because you've figured this out for yourself doesn't mean that it comes naturally to everyone. So many fixie riders talk about the 'tude that they get from the 'scene' and then they go and make some snide remark themselves.]
As someone who's seen the pics/videos and real-life skids of many people, and tried on some (not a lot) of occasions to skid without success, I thought I maybe wasn't getting some subtlety--like a weight shift.

Two more questions: some form of clips/straps/clipless pedals necessary for skipping? And...anyone know if lighter riders more subject to wobbly skidding than heavier riders? (I'm on the lighter side.) Or is it more a question of leg strength/stiffness?


you know, one thing i notice is that i start out by violently backpedaling, just to get the initial reverse force into the rear wheel, and i start this before the pedals are level. then i all but lock my knees, just push down reallly hard on the rear pedal with all my weight. you still have to pull up in front, though.

maybe that helps more? you mentioned locking the legs and that sparked some thought there.

Two more questions: some form of clips/straps/clipless pedals necessary for skipping? And...anyone know if lighter riders more subject to wobbly skidding than heavier riders? (I'm on the lighter side.) Or is it more a question of leg strength/stiffness?

i'm way too light for my height and while that causes problems when riding on windy days, it doesn't affect the difficulty of skidding or skipping. i use clipless pedals. i couldn't really skid well or back pedal with significant stopping force until my legs strengthened and got used to the feel of a fixed drivetrain, but skipping was never a problem. i'd just go along at a medium pace and pop forward and up out of the saddle while pulling both calves and knees up a bit. that would get the back wheel to lift. then i figured out how to get comfortable locking my legs on the way back down and lifting my calves and knees again to pop the wheel up again, etc.

why don't you just clip into yr pedals with the bike in a corner of yr house with the front tire against the wall it's perpendicular to and keep the other wall within leaning distance to brace an elbow to. lean against the elbow-bracing wall, stand up and practice popping up the rear wheel (just barely off the ground is fine). when you feel comfortabe with that and commit the action to muscle memory, try it outside while riding. you should get it instantly.

how are clipless for you? i prefer clipless, but i've always been told that i need clips and straps for riding fixed.

For me, skidding isn't as much about stiffening the back leg as it is wedging my hip (the one connected to the back leg) against the bars. That way, it comes down to either breaking the bars, bending my leg, or breaking that rear tire loose (skidding). Thus far, it's always been the last one. :)

how are clipless for you? i prefer clipless, but i've always been told that i need clips and straps for riding fixed.
Bull****. There are preferences, and I remember there being a fairly heated argument about how "dangerous" it was to ride clipless, but for the most part, a LOT of people manage to ride fixed clipless. I like it a lot.

i love clipless, but you have to be mindful about checking the cleats every few weeks if you have SPD compatible mountain shoes that are comfortable enough to walk around in. the crash last week that put me on my face (http://www.visitordesign.com/chin.jpg) had a lot to do with worn out cleats that released when i put a lot of sudden backward torque on them. i had actually noticed that my foot was releasing for about two weeks and just kept procrastinating because i was "too busy finishing projects."

in general, with using my riding shoes as my sneakers, crank bros cleats last me about 3 months. when i looked at the shape that my cleats were in after i crashed, i was pretty pissed at myself for not taking better care of my equipment. i'm pretty sure i would have avoided that trip to the ER entirely had i been able to skip or skid without my cleat releasing as it did.

so, clipless are great, but don't neglect those cleats...

so, clipless are great, but don't neglect those cleats...
Agreed. There are good clipless pedals, and there are bad. The same is true with toe clips and straps. I use SPD presently, and they are great.

"balls on the stem" is all you need to know about skidding.

Bull****. There are preferences, and I remember there being a fairly heated argument about how "dangerous" it was to ride clipless, but for the most part, a LOT of people manage to ride fixed clipless. I like it a lot.

The heated argument (and some good information on clipless vs. clips and straps) can be found here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=161027

i'm way too light for my height and while that causes problems when riding on windy days, it doesn't affect the difficulty of skidding or skipping. i use clipless pedals. i couldn't really skid well or back pedal with significant stopping force until my legs strengthened and got used to the feel of a fixed drivetrain, but skipping was never a problem. i'd just go along at a medium pace and pop forward and up out of the saddle while pulling both calves and knees up a bit. that would get the back wheel to lift. then i figured out how to get comfortable locking my legs on the way back down and lifting my calves and knees again to pop the wheel up again, etc.

why don't you just clip into yr pedals with the bike in a corner of yr house with the front tire against the wall it's perpendicular to and keep the other wall within leaning distance to brace an elbow to. lean against the elbow-bracing wall, stand up and practice popping up the rear wheel (just barely off the ground is fine). when you feel comfortabe with that and commit the action to muscle memory, try it outside while riding. you should get it instantly.

Thanks for the tips, visitordesign. A helpful description and helpful exercise you suggest. I'll try it. I'm beginning to think that the main reason I'm not getting it is a lack of leg muscle development. I've read many posts before, and I know the whole, throw your nards to the stem, lean forward, commit, plus the pics, but still felt like I wasn't tuned into the actual physical motion. This thread's helped me understand what I need to do. Considering my bum knee, I'm definitely going to hold off on trying to skid until I can rehabilitate it more. But the skipping I think I'll be able to figure out.

The heated argument (and some good information on clipless vs. clips and straps) can be found here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=161027


thanks...

so basically what i got from that thread is that there is no real answer to the clip and strap/clipless question except whatever works for you, which is most likely to be clips and straps. but isn't necessarily, but may be.

thanks...

so basically what i got from that thread is that there is no real answer to the clip and strap/clipless question except whatever works for you, which is most likely to be clips and straps. but isn't necessarily, but may be.

Yes everyone should ride what they want according to the thread.
I still think everyone riding a handbrakeless fixed wheel bicycle on the street should be using clips and good quality straps. :)

Just think about the release mechanics of each system and pick whatever feels safer.

exactly, but perhaps i'll resurrect that thread to carry on this discussion, rather than continue the thread jack. apologies to the OP.

How do people in Texas learn to skid? There is no rain.

The rain thing is no joke. I was scared to death of skidding, until one day I was riding in the rain and it just happened. For the rest of the ride I just started skidding into every red light. Your muscles have their own memory, and once you feel a skid you will know how to do it again.

regarding clips/no clips/clipless: whatever you ride with now is what you should learn with. You use slightly different muscles with all three, and once you have your muscles toned and well trained you will be able to do the tricks. If you don't know how to install/maintain/clip out/clip in/adjust/have a powerful stroke with whatever you use, then it is a problem of ignorance and not some inherent problem with the technology.

give it some time and have some fun with it. commit when your gonna skid and you will be golden. weight has noithing to do with the wobblyness of your skid i weigh 135 and run some steap gearing. you'll get the hang of it. you got the flat land of nyc to help you. grass is also always slippery you dont have to wait for it to rain or anything. it is also alot more forgiving if you fall. good luck