Professional Cycling For the Fans - What bikes have won the tdf

Here's my guess. If Merckx was 30 years old again, riding on a Reynolds 531 frame and fork, six speed freewheel, toe clips, and straps, friction downtube shifters...he would win the 2006 Tour de France. He would win because he would be the strongest rider in the race. The fact he was on the most comfortable frame in the race would help him, and he would be aided by "old school" components that are more reliable than STI...but he would win because Merckx, at age thirty, was a far stronger rider than any of the current crop.

The marketing boys would like every forty year old dentist in America to think that a fifteen pound bike with ten cogs and STI shifting is "faster" than the bikes that Merckx rode...and they also hope the dentist will fork over $3,000 to fuel that fantasy. But, only legs are fast...bikes are only what you sit on while you pedal.

No way. Think of it this way, Would a 6 pounds overweight Eddy Merckx win the TDF today? Power to weight ratio is everything, and the margins are too close for even a Merckx or an Armstrong to climb fast enough to win the TDF on a 21 lb bike when the competition is on a 14.98lb bike.

No way. Think of it this way, Would a 6 pounds overweight Eddy Merckx win the TDF today? Power to weight ratio is everything, and the margins are too close for even a Merckx or an Armstrong to climb fast enough to win the TDF on a 21 lb bike when the competition is on a 14.98lb bike.

While I agree with the conclusion I have to wonder about the 'margins'. The winning margins were quite a bit LOWER in the Tour in the years leading up to Eddy. (Average of about 2 1/2 minutes per year for the 7 years before 69). Then came Eddy and he won by 17 and kept winning by about 10. When Eddy did the Giro Vuelta Double and Ocana won the Tour in 73 his margin was in the 10 minute level.

Why? Because both these guys attacked and blew the field to pieces. Note it had risks. The year Ocana chrashed out of the Tour he was leading because Eddy blew things apart and had nothing left when Ocana countered.

Perhaps todays small margins are more a result of careful marking, low risk racing rather than a greater balance between cyclists.

In 1986 on a LOOK with La Vie Claire and in 1990 on a Greg Lemond branded bike. Does anybody know who manufactured that 1990 GL model?

I believe that Craig Calfee made LeMond branded carbon bikes that year. I've noticed that Calfee's have a TdF reference on the seat tube.

To the best of my knowledge, since I began following the Tour back in 1987, here's a listing of the winning bikes, though as can be the case, a bike with one manufacturer's label might have been made by another manufacturer.

1986: Greg Lemond - Look
1987: Stephan Roche - Carrera
1988: Pedro Delgado - Pinarello (TVT)
1989: Greg Lemond - Bottechia
1990: Greg Lemond - CarbonFrames (Calfree?)
1991-1995: Miguel Indurain - Pinarello
1996: Bjarne Riis - Pinarello
1997: Jan Ullrich - Pinarello
1998: Marco Pantani - Bianchi
1999-2005: Lance Armstrong - Trek (Lightspeed in '99 labeled as "Trek"?)

... pretty much the SAME bike: a bike with Reynolds 531 frame, Reynolds 531 fork, Campy hubs, Campy changers. The differences year to year were only details, such as the bars and stem (usually Cinelli) and the brakes (several companies competed with Campy on brakes).



Didn't a lot of great bikes in that era use Columbus tubing or did Columbus emerge later?

Didn't a lot of great bikes in that era use Columbus tubing or did Columbus emerge later?

OK - I should have read all the posts before replying. This has been mentioned several times. My bad.

I must be going blind or daft,

How about Colnago. Their bikes have probably won just about any race worth winning.

Eddy Merckx left Peugeot in the late 60s because they gave him the business about riding Italian frames painted up like Peugeots. All the fans wanted to know why EM's "PX-10" was full Campy. He rode De Rosas and Colnagos. The first "Eddy Merckx" bikes that EM himself rode were De Rosas and/or Colnagos.

You can buy an identical frame and components that are used by any pro cycling team. Yes, there are a few one off customs made for top bill riders, but those are an exception rather then a rule.

Am I mistaken, or did you make a claim in your first sentence and refute it in your second? Surely, SURELY, Lance, Jan, Ivan, etc. have access to some unobtainium bits for at least a season or so before the hoi-polloi can get its capitalistic mitts on them.

You can buy an identical frame and components that are used by any pro cycling team. Yes, there are a few one off customs made for top bill riders, but those are an exception rather then a rule.

See http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/news/03-09

Where can I get one?

HigherGround -- DuraAce came out in the late 70s. It remained a campy copy well into the 80s.

What a great thread! My own thoughts are that the "mind" may be as important as the "engine" with the bike only carrying the two. For example, nearly everyone (including LA) says that Jan is the most gifted rider. But LA beat him every year. Difference - attitude. The only thing they do NOT say is that the difference is the bike. Addditionally, I personally believe that Eddy at top conditioning could beat anybody at any time on any equipment (unless, of course, a spectator intentionally knocked him off his bike). They didn't call him "The Cannibal" for nothing. :D

I thought I saw a picture of Greg lemond on a huffy.sorry but I guess I will have to find that pic again.

Unfortunately firms like Huffy really didn't make high end bikes - as much as sponsor teams. So that 'Huffy' Lemond was riding could have been anything from a Litespeed to a Pinarello. Realistically no way to tell. You could ask Greg, he'd probably remember who made the bikes he rode during his career...

It also surprised the hell out of me that no Dura Ace equipped bike won the Tour de France until Lance's first win in 1999. That's really astonishing. I've been riding high end bikes with D.A. since the late 1980's.

They're winning Tours now, eh? It's good stuff.

I think the title should be "What bikes have been ridden to wins in the TdF?" My bike never goes anywhere unless someone is pedaling it.

I think the title should be "What bikes have been ridden to wins in the TdF?" My bike never goes anywhere unless someone is pedaling it.

It is amazing how effective the marketing is.

It is amazing how effective the marketing is.
Looked at your stable. Man bikes as fashion! Cool :D

While which bicycle WINS the Tour de France does not influence me - which bikes are RIDDEN in the Tour does. Cannondale gained major traction with me with its sponsorship of pro UCI teams over the past decade, rightly or wrongly. I think that's similar with other amateur competitive riders. Very much so. I see this all around me in the local peloton here in the NYC area.

Cannondale lost its deal to provide bikes to the Lampre squad - and are now suppling the US Healthnet team - arguably the top US pro team. But that will NOT get them the notoriety that sells the high end bikes nearly as much as another team riding in UCI events in Europe. Which is a shame because the Six13 will remain the best damn racing bike I've ever ridden whether it's winning L Alp D'Huez or the Sea Otter Classic. But it's Tour de France TV coverage and press photos that impact the bike weenie consciousness - and I don't see that changing. I don't follow domestic pro racing too much - and nobody I know really does....

I'll tell you what the next bike to win the Tour is: Cervelo. :)

While which bicycle WINS the Tour de France does not influence me - which bikes are RIDDEN in the Tour does. Cannondale gained major traction with me with its sponsorship of pro UCI teams over the past decade, rightly or wrongly. I think that's similar with other amateur competitive riders. Very much so. I see this all around me in the local peloton here in the NYC area.

Cannondale lost its deal to provide bikes to the Lampre squad - and are now suppling the US Healthnet team - arguably the top US pro team. But that will NOT get them the notoriety that sells the high end bikes nearly as much as another team riding in UCI events in Europe. Which is a shame because the Six13 will remain the best damn racing bike I've ever ridden whether it's winning L Alp D'Huez or the Sea Otter Classic. But it's Tour de France TV coverage and press photos that impact the bike weenie consciousness - and I don't see that changing. I don't follow domestic pro racing too much - and nobody I know really does....
Cannondale is the bike supplier to Barloworld, a South African based Continential squad. Their best known rider is 2003 World Champion Igor Astroloza. Their kits look almost idnetical to the old Saeco team.

it would sure be nice to see some Tarmacs higher up on the podium, such a nice bike.

FYI - to add to the list. I believe Ocana won one on an original Motobecane.

Here's my guess. If Merckx was 30 years old again, riding on a Reynolds 531 frame and fork, six speed freewheel, toe clips, and straps, friction downtube shifters...he would win the 2006 Tour de France. He would win because he would be the strongest rider in the race. The fact he was on the most comfortable frame in the race would help him, and he would be aided by "old school" components that are more reliable than STI...but he would win because Merckx, at age thirty, was a far stronger rider than any of the current crop.

The marketing boys would like every forty year old dentist in America to think that a fifteen pound bike with ten cogs and STI shifting is "faster" than the bikes that Merckx rode...and they also hope the dentist will fork over $3,000 to fuel that fantasy. But, only legs are fast...bikes are only what you sit on while you pedal.

As much as I hate agreeing with you, this is pretty much spot on. Granted, STI makes it easier to respond to things such as attacks and shifting in a sprint, but I guess if you're Eddy and way out in front already, it doesn't really matter much :)

In the sixty years period since thousands of young Americans gave their lives to liberate France, and thereby make the "modern" Tour de France possible, a short list of bike "brands" have dominated the Tour:


- Gitane 9 wins

- Pinarello 7 wins

- Trek 7 wins

- Merckx 5 wins

- Peugeot 3 wins


Regardless of the "decal" on the bike, the great majority of bikes that won the Tour between WWII and around 1985 were the SAME bike: a custom-made bike with Reynolds 531 tubes and a Campy drivetrain. The "name" on the bike was the name of the sponsor...but most of the bikes winning the Tour were not identical to the bikes that the sponsoring "brand" was selling in the neighborhood bike shops.

However, Peugeot did win with bikes that were VERY similar to its "production" bikes. The bikes used in Peugeot's wins may have been "hand-made", rather than factory-made, but had essentially the same tubes and components used on models sold through Peugeot dealers.

And, what did 9 Tour De France wins do for Gitane's sales in the USA? Well, it has been more than 20 years since I last saw a Gitane on the streets of Houston.

add 1 win for Motobecane in the 1973 Tour. Of course Eddie skipped that year.

Let's not forget that a Cannondale won the Giro in 2004. Either a CAAD8 or a Six13 (maybe the former?).

Like it matters.

It's the MOTOR you weenies. I like that nifty Lance model. Very reliable and good for LOTS of miles : ).

add 1 win for Motobecane in the 1973 Tour. Of course Eddie skipped that year.

But a pretty solid win. Last time anyone won the tour by more than 15 minutes!

Yeah, Louis Ocana was a total bad a$$. He was taking it to Eddie big time in '71 too but crashed out before it was over.

Western Flyer

what about time trials. i hope no one is saying that lance on his ttx would lose to merckx on his reynolds 531.

additionally i think that merckx vs armstrong on identical bikes would be merckx, but lance with modern technology against merckx with the old would result in and armstrong victory. nutrition, coaching, and bike technology are all against merckx no matter how awesome he was.

I thought I saw a picture of Greg lemond on a huffy.sorry but I guess I will have to find that pic again.sorry I missed this post. This huffy?

I assume this is the Coors Classic -- or whatever it was called -- judging by the sponsor on the number

http://vmartin.bigpondhosting.com/photos/lemond_glasses.jpg

Lance also competed on a bike branded as a Caloi. .i've got a pic of that, too, but he obviously didn't win the Tour on one

http://vmartin.bigpondhosting.com/photos/armstrong_steel.jpghttp://grahamwatson.com/dublin/lance/images/image23.jpg

Anyone post a pic of this? Indurain's 1993 Pinarello

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_93_10.jpghttp://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_93_11.jpg

http://grahamwatson.com/dublin/lemond/images/image20.jpg

there are some great old pics here

http://www.theracingbicycle.com/Modern_era_TdF_Autographs.html

No bicycle ever won the TdF. BICYCLISTS have, though. Put Lance on any other rider's (properly fit) bike and he still crushes the field through personal and team strength.

Huffy. Right. Don't forget Western Auto and K-Mart.



Here is a question I have not seen nor could I find.
What bicycles have won the tdf?I know that the last 7 were Treks and there was one Huffy but what others?
Do any of you know?I wouldn't even know how to find out.
Rick G

Western Flyer


Hey, Chief.... I think Western Flyer was a sled, not a bike. It would probably not been a good time trial machine.

No bicycle ever won the TdF. BICYCLISTS have, though. Put Lance on any other rider's (properly fit) bike and he still crushes the field through personal and team strength.

Huffy. Right. Don't forget Western Auto and K-Mart.

So on a differetn bike he would have crushed the field? Just which of his wins were crushing to start with? Good solid wins, very Anquetil like, but hardly crushing.

Jan's secret:
http://www.theracingbicycle.com/images/Big_Jan.bmp

[QUOTE=alanbikehouston]In the sixty years period since thousands of young Americans gave their lives to liberate France, and thereby make the "modern" Tour de France possible, a short list of bike "brands" have dominated the Tour:


- Gitane 9 wins

- Pinarello 7 wins

- Trek 7 wins

- Merckx 5 wins

- Peugeot 3 wins


QUOTE]

i was just going to ask that alanhouston.and as i guessed my favorite bike leads the way. nothing better than those blue and yellow gitanes of the eighties:)

- Gitane 9 wins

- Pinarello 7 wins

- Trek 7 wins

- Merckx 5 wins

- Peugeot 3 wins


Okay, please tell me if I'm calculating the Gitane riding winners correctly:


Anquetil '63 & '64 [Helyett in 57, 61, 62]...
Van Impe... '76,
Hinault... '78 '79 '81 '82 [Look in 85]...
Fignon '83 & '84

~ Thanks

I can't imagine that to be true. In the early 70s there were only a couple of frame builders starting to try working with titanium. And those first attempts, like the Teledyne Titan, were not very good.

SS

This brings back some memories... I started racing in 1972 and avidly absorbed all this stuff. They were just starting to experiment with titianium and carbon fiber in those days. Ocana did ride a titanium frame in some of the Tour's climbing stages built by a company called Speedwell (probably with Motobecane decals). Eddy Merckx remarked that titanium bikes were actually too light to use on the descents. I had a chance to ride a Speedwell and I understand what he meant - the bike handled like a wet noodle. The guy that had bought it broke it shortly thereafter. There were two North American bikes made of then-exotic materials that went into production. One was the Teledyne Titan, used by Ron Skarin and the North Hollywood Wheelmen. The other was the carbon fiber Graftek, used by John Howard and Wayne Stetina. Both these bikes also had a habit of breaking in normal use. The problem with the original Ti bikes was that they were made of pure titanium, not the aluminum/vanadium alloys they're using now.

Back in 1967, Eddy Merckx rode on the Peugeot team with Tom Simpson (before he died on Ventoux in that year's Tour). I once saw a picture of the two of them racing together. Both bikes were painted the same Peugeot white with black trim, but Siimpson's bike had the rough Nervex lugs and Mafac brakes, while Merckx's "Peugeot" had nicely-filed Italian spearpoint lugs and Campag sidepulls. I had understood that his Peugeots were actually built by Masi. When Merckx rode his first Tour in 1969, he was riding for Faema (like Saeco, a manufacturer of espresso machines) and had his own branded bikes built by de Rosa or Colnago.

- Luis

"... I had understood that his Peugeots were actually built by Masi. When Merckx rode his first Tour in 1969, he was riding for Faema (like Saeco, a manufacturer of espresso machines) and had his own branded bikes built by de Rosa or Colnago.

- Luis"

Not sure about the Masi/Peugeot connection. But Eddy definitely had many early bikes made by framebuilder Ernesto Colnago. Later, 1973, Eddy asked his friend Ugo DeRosa to be the official framebuilder for his entire Molteni team. I've seen later photos of Ugo and Eddy on the Belgian site where DeRosa was advising him about setting up his new Merckx bike factory. ~ Nice friends to have on your side.