Whats a safe amount of creatine to use?

[EJ123]

I never liked the idea of it but in an energy drink I am drinking now it has 50mg of it. Im only 15 but is it bad to have it, or whats a non-dangerous amount to have?

[free_pizza]

I never liked the idea of it but in an energy drink I am drinking now it has 50mg of it. Im only 15 but is it bad to have it, or whats a non-dangerous amount to have?
i wouldnt be touching that stuff at your age.

[EJ123]

hm. Ok no more of that then. I guess regular monster will do:)

Nice quick response=p

[Jason222]

Don't drink energy drinks.

[EJ123]

I dont usually. Maybe 1 or 2 a week, or if I am super tired.

[WarrenG]

I never liked the idea of it but in an energy drink I am drinking now it has 50mg of it. Im only 15 but is it bad to have it, or whats a non-dangerous amount to have?


50mg? That's just enough so they can put it on the label. One serving of meat contains approximately 10 to 15 TIMES that amount. Your body makes about 1000mg of creatine each day.

[akarius]

Don't drink energy drinks.

What is the reason not too?

[EJ123]

50mg? That's just enough so they can put it on the label. One serving of meat contains approximately 10 to 15 TIMES that amount. Your body makes about 1000mg of creatine each day.

Wow never knew that. thanks dude.

[MadMan2k]

If you're tired, it's because you don't have proper nutrition, or you're not getting enough sleep, or god forbid it's because you actually expended some energy that day..

Energy drinks are pointless.

And is the bold terminal font because you have so much 'energy' from drinking that crap?

[EJ123]

Are you shutting me?

[akarius]

50mg? That's just enough so they can put it on the label. One serving of meat contains approximately 10 to 15 TIMES that amount. Your body makes about 1000mg of creatine each day.

I have heard that meat contains alot or creatine but that creatine is very sensitive to the heat that is used to cook meat. Most of the creatine in meat is destrotyed by cooking. I do not know if this is true though.

[mx_599]

I never liked the idea of it but in an energy drink I am drinking now it has 50mg of it. Im only 15 but is it bad to have it, or whats a non-dangerous amount to have?
just know this, as an exercise physiologist i will tell you that nearly all supplements DO NOT work. vitamins are fine...not talking about them. creatine is one of the very few to show positive results, but not in all individuals.

as the other poster said...50mg is nothing. but it is something for them to put on the label and charge more for.

agreed with the age thing. no 15 yr old should take stuff like that. will it hurt you?? most likely not. there are no long term studies on creatine safety. so why use it...

again, save your money. the only things that really work are banned. with good reason

[mx_599]

Don't drink energy drinks.
which ones are you refering to??

as far as "gatorade" type drinks (general rules):
1) only really need if you know your activity bout will be longer than 60 minutes...under that water is fine with something to eat post workout

2) cut in half with water if you do use it

energy drinks with caffeine:

1) caffeine has been shown to provide some benefits, primarily in aerobic exercise

2) are they safe? most likely yes! but i don't know if you have a heart problem and shouldn't have it...i am talking in general

3) as long as the carbonation doesn't bother you

4) if you're going to have one, i recommend RED BULL. out of all the ones i have looked at, this is the only brand i could find that does not contain High Fructose Corn Syrup. it would be best to avoid HFCS if you can.

[EJ123]

Monster doesnt have it either:) But it does have sucrose

[mx_599]

Monster doesnt have it either:) But it does have sucrose
are you sure??? last time i checked they did. i will look again next time i see it.

there are thoughts that HFCS are a major health concern among sedentary people...especially ones your age. if you're on this forum, you're probably active. HFCS are not a concern to those burning it off. although i do believe the other "sugars" are metabolized "better" than HFCS anyhow.

[pacemaker]

Sucrose/High fructose corn syrup (HFCS), same sugar but from different sources, HFCS comes from corn, obviously. Sucrose comes from cane or beets, both are a combination of fructose and glucose. Chemically they are the same.

[mx_599]

Sucrose/High fructose corn syrup (HFCS), same sugar but from different sources, HFCS comes from corn, obviously. Sucrose comes from cane or beets, both are a combination of fructose and glucose. Chemically they are the same.
...metabolized differently

[pacemaker]

Read mx 599's post, this stuff does not work, especially for strains. Creatine has one function in the body and that is to bind with phosphorus to form creatine-phosphate. This chemical donates phosphorus to ADP (adenosine di-phosphate) to form ATP ( adenosine tri-phosphate). ATP is used for immediate high energy needs of short bursts of energy (<10 sec), such as in sprinting. It has absolutely nothing to do with recovery from exercise! Eating extra amounts of creatine will increase muscle creatine but that doesnt mean your ability to sprint longer will be increased since you will still have the same levels of ADP.

[mx_599]

let me correct myself here and cover my *****. it seems as though pacemaker knows his biochem. :D

my info on HFCS is probably a couple years old. i thought i remember reading a connection with triglycerides and fructose. that it is more favorable to this pathway or something. (this is for sedentary people...it goes out the door for all you lance armstrongs!)
i could very well be wrong and don't have time to research this. there is a little more fructose in HFCS than sucrose though. maybe that is where i am getting my info. it might not be significant though. fructose does elicit different insulin response than glucose.

f**k this...what it boils down to is kids drinking too much soda and playing too many video games :p

solution?

more soda vending machines in cafeterias

[pacemaker]

No, your on the right track with regard to the fructose/triglyceride connection. Fructose is more easily converted to glycerol than glucose, which forms the basis for the attachment of fatty acids which results in increases in Trig levels in the blood. bad for sedentary and active people alike. Not sure about fructose quantities in HFCS vs Sucrose. I think Fructose is added to the corn syrup to give it the same chemical structure as cane sugar. It IS metabolized the same way however. Bottom line-eat less of either and more complex CHO's.

[mx_599]

No, your on the right track with regard to the fructose/triglyceride connection. Fructose is more easily converted to glycerol than glucose, which forms the basis for the attachment of fatty acids which results in increases in Trig levels in the blood. bad for sedentary and active people alike. Not sure about fructose quantities in HFCS vs Sucrose. I think Fructose is added to the corn syrup to give it the same chemical structure as cane sugar. It IS metabolized the same way however. Bottom line-eat less of either and more complex CHO's.
what is metabolized the same?? glucose and fructose evoke different insulin responses for one. do you mean sucrose vs HFCS? if you do, this would depend on the ration of fructose in HFCS. if it is more prevalent, then that would lead me to believe that HFCS is metabolized differently than sucrose with respect to the [fructose].

do you think that an acute increase in triglycerides is bad in an active person? i was just thinking from the perspective that it wouldn't even have a chance to cause harm before FFA is used as a substrate in beta oxidation :p

what is your edu background?

[WarrenG]

Read mx 599's post, this stuff does not work, especially for strains. Creatine has one function in the body and that is to bind with phosphorus to form creatine-phosphate. This chemical donates phosphorus to ADP (adenosine di-phosphate) to form ATP ( adenosine tri-phosphate). ATP is used for immediate high energy needs of short bursts of energy (<10 sec), such as in sprinting. It has absolutely nothing to do with recovery from exercise! Eating extra amounts of creatine will increase muscle creatine but that doesnt mean your ability to sprint longer will be increased since you will still have the same levels of ADP.

Uh, ATP is used for virtually all energy needs of any length-not just short sprints. Creatine will be used mainly for those short efforts, but also plays a part in efforts up to around a minute. Since creatine stores are somewhat limited in muscle, having some extra around can in fact extend the amount of time one can sprint at a given power, but probably more important is its ability to increase the power of those sprints. Creatine supplemention can also enhance the recovery process between efforts relying heavily on creatine (resynthesis of phosphocreatine (PCr).

Here is a pretty nice explanation of the PCr to ATP process.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/muscle6.htm


As for how creatine could help with strains? Magic powers? :D

[mx_599]

Uh, ATP is used for virtually all energy needs of any length-not just short sprints. Creatine will be used mainly for those short efforts, but also plays a part in efforts up to around a minute. Since creatine stores are somewhat limited in muscle, having some extra around can in fact extend the amount of time one can sprint at a given power, but probably more important is its ability to increase the power of those sprints.
i am not sure that is totally accurate either. this is why i don't get involved in this forum. there are always people who will know more than me :D if the creatine/ATP/whatever isn't immediately available, as in literally close proximity to the to the myosin heads of thick filaments...i am not sure that having any "extra" around in the body is usefull for immediate performance. for the same reasoning, i am not so sure that it will give a more forceful contraction either. i do not really know the kinectics of creatine storage and potential delivery to working muscles...so please don't attack me. ;)

Creatine supplemention can also enhance the recovery process between efforts relying heavily on creatine (resynthesis of phosphocreatine (PCr).

was this a reliable source?

[pacemaker]

I think its accurate in that you can train the CP/ATP system just like you would train your anaerobic and aerobic systems to be more effecient. We generally do interval training to train the latter two systems so it would seem you could train your CP/ATP system by using the same principles. General guidelines for intervals are 2:1 rest:work ratio for anaerobic and 1:1 for aerobic; Katch & McArdle suggest 3:1 for CP meaning sprint 10sec, rest 30 sec. Where I disagree is that more dietary creatine will enhance your CP system alone, it seems ADP availability would be a rate limiting factor. Warren is right in that ATP provides energy for all muscle contractions; the formation of ATP is the near end product of fat, protein and carb metabolism regardless of the metabolic system ( CP, anaero, aero ) being tapped.

Funny how these threads can go on and on.

Lyric: Running up That Hill, Kate Bush, Album- Hounds of Love, ~1984 (She makes me wish I was Peter Gabriel)

[WarrenG]

i am not sure that is totally accurate either. this is why i don't get involved in this forum. there are always people who will know more than me :D if the creatine/ATP/whatever isn't immediately available, as in literally close proximity to the to the myosin heads of thick filaments...i am not sure that having any "extra" around in the body is usefull for immediate performance. for the same reasoning, i am not so sure that it will give a more forceful contraction either. i do not really know the kinectics of creatine storage and potential delivery to working muscles...so please don't attack me. ;)


was this a reliable source?

All of what I said has been confirmed with studies you can find on PUBMED. Search on " creatine sprint" or "creatine supplementation", etc. Whe you find one good article try using the link called "related articles".

[mx_599]

Lyric: Running up That Hill, Kate Bush, Album- Hounds of Love, ~1984 (She makes me wish I was Peter Gabriel)

is she with peter gabriel? i didn't know that

[WarrenG]

I think its accurate in that you can train the CP/ATP system just like you would train your anaerobic and aerobic systems to be more effecient. We generally do interval training to train the latter two systems so it would seem you could train your CP/ATP system by using the same principles. General guidelines for intervals are 2:1 rest:work ratio for anaerobic and 1:1 for aerobic; Katch & McArdle suggest 3:1 for CP meaning sprint 10sec, rest 30 sec. Where I disagree is that more dietary creatine will enhance your CP system alone, it seems ADP availability would be a rate limiting factor. Warren is right in that ATP provides energy for all muscle contractions; the formation of ATP is the near end product of fat, protein and carb metabolism regardless of the metabolic system ( CP, anaero, aero ) being tapped.

Funny how these threads can go on and on.

And maybe the threads end up more useful than just talking about 50mg of creatine.
:)

Here are a few links about creatine loading and its effects. I'm too lazy now to revisit them to weed out the less relevant ones. :)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9839847&query_hl=12&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10063812&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9124295&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12043832&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum


I have to disagree with you about your ratios for intervals. CP intervals would normally require 1-3' of recovery because it takes that long to resynthesize the PCr. If you only rest 30" you'll be relying fairly heavily on other energy systems, which is fine if that's what you intend.

Aerobic intervals, well these can be 4-30 minutes long and the recovery period doesn't really need to be longer than 3-5' to restore most, if not all of the relevant physiological factors, execept accumulated fatigue. If you were talking about "micro intervals" (aerobic varieties) e.g. 30" on/30" off, then yes, they will have a work/recovery ratio near 1:1 but then there will be a rest period between blocks (3-10' each)) that will typically be 4-6+ minutes.

Anaerobic intervals... a very broad term depending on how much training emphasis you want to place on the anaerobic energy systems vs. the aerobic energy systems. An interval at maximum effort for about one minute long will get approximately 40% of the required energy from the aerobic system. For an interval like this the recovery would probably be 4-5 minutes. If you do an interval of around 20-30" max effort you will need a recovery ratio closer to 3-4 minutes. 6:1 to 8:1 are fairly common ratios for intervals intended to stress (primarily) the anaerobic system. If the recovery periods are shorter than these examples then the subsequent intervals will become mostly fueled by the aerobic system, which can be part of what you intend, or not.

[mx_599]

arrggghhh...you guys are frying my mind! thanks for all the links warren...i need to study my ***** off now for my biochem exam tomorrow, physiology exam on wed, and immunology final exam the following monday...why am i even here????

[WarrenG]

arrggghhh...you guys are frying my mind! thanks for all the links warren...i need to study my ***** off now for my biochem exam tomorrow, physiology exam on wed, and immunology final exam the following monday...why am i even here????

If there's an essay question about creatine you'll be ready!

[pacemaker]

For the metabolizing ?, I was refering to sucrose and HFCS; once broken down to fructose and glucose they follow separate pathways as you mentioned earlier. As far as elevated TG's being bad for both active and inactive, I was refering to chronic rather than an acute hypertriglyceridemia. In acute terms your right. I guess my point was that exercise w/ poor diet can still lead to problems. Look at Jim Fix; he wrote the definative book on runnig back in the late 70's or early 80's ( not sure when). He was a great runner, but he had a crappy diet; died from CAD in his mid forty's. Also , hope I dont come off as attacking you or anyone else, theres none intended. Just trying to be helpful. And... as far as the chem of HFCS and sucrose goes they are very similar. HFCS can range from 42-55% fructose with the rest glucose, sucrose is 50/50 fructose/glucose. No real diff in insulin response. (Had to look that up)

MY edu: BS Nutrition & Dietetics, MS Sports Nutrition. I primarily do Nutrition Support now, it pays the bills better than Sports nutrition. I have some athlete clients but its only a side business and the hourly rate is much less than Nutrition Support.

What about the Lyric Quiz? Did I get it right, wasn't too sure about the song title.

[pacemaker]

I think my mind is frying as well. :eek: Wasn't this thread originally about a sports drink with creatine in it? I think the 15 yo who posted the original got more info than he could process. Enjoyed the bantor folks, I need this kind of discussion every once in a while to keep sharp. Football is calling though.

[mx_599]

What about the Lyric Quiz? Did I get it right, wasn't too sure about the song title.
you got it! i have seen it listed as "running up that hill (make a deal with god)"

[meridebikes]

I never liked the idea of it but in an energy drink I am drinking now it has 50mg of it. Im only 15 but is it bad to have it, or whats a non-dangerous amount to have?

dont start worrying too young, just drink the stuff, whatever doesnt kill you only makes you stronger

[WarrenG]

well... tell that to the strain that i had in my back for several months from using a messenger bag.... i kept taking time off to let it heal, the i'd lift again, with light weight and good form and it came back every time.... then i got pissed, started taking this crap, and kept lifting... the strain went away.


i've also read stuff about it reducing cramping and strains.

Where exactly did you read that?

[vbclown]

I never liked the idea of it but in an energy drink I am drinking now it has 50mg of it. Im only 15 but is it bad to have it, or whats a non-dangerous amount to have?

BTW EJ, congratulations on being wise enough at 15, to be cautious about magic fitness pills. A lot of us 35+ year olds could use your judgement.

[EJ123]

lol wow this is interesting. I think all lay off it for a while.

[FatguyRacer]

i wouldnt be touching that stuff at your age.

I wouldnt be touching that stuff at anybodys age.

[WarrenG]

"Fatguyracer"

Your picture looks like you might know Grant. I raced with him at Indy last year. Good guy!

[FatguyRacer]

"Fatguyracer"

Your picture looks like you might know Grant. I raced with him at Indy last year. Good guy!

I know of him. I just joined TSV this year after being on Bike Doctor for a jillion years. He's never hard to spot in a D20 race. He's the only guy i've ever seen do crits with a disc wheel. I would aspire to be as fast as he is on his recovery days. Dude can ride.