Folding Bikes - Folding Novice - First Folder

Hi,

I apologize in advance if I am violating any protocols.

Am about to buy a folding bike and welcome the wisdom of all you knowledgeable folding bikers. :)

I am considering a Dahon Boardwalk-7 or a Dahon Speed-8. I plan to get it assembled and backed up at my local cyclery. I already have a normal mountain bike [great for normal mountains :rolleyes: ]...

So why get another bike? I live on California Central Coast [Monterey]. I would love to be able to bike in other cool places, like West Cliff [Santa Cruz], but my big bike [Ruby] won't fit in my new beetle.

1. So what do you think is the better bike? and...

2. Should I also be considering another make of folder [like DownTube]?

My budget is $300 [give or take fifty cents].

Thanks,

Vickie

Hi,

. . .

Am about to buy a folding bike and welcome the wisdom of all you knowledgeable folding bikers. :)

I am considering a Dahon Boardwalk-7 or a Dahon Speed-8. I plan to get it assembled and backed up at my local cyclery.
. . .
1. So what do you think is the better bike? and...

2. Should I also be considering another make of folder [like DownTube]?

My budget is $300 [give or take fifty cents]. . .


If you can stretch your budget to between $400 and $500 I recommend the Speed P8, for the adjustable handlebar height, which may help you get a better fit, depending on your size. The Boardwalk is probably also a very good bike, but even the 2006 version still seems to have the fixed height bars.

I've never seen a Downtube. With all the good press they get around here, I suppose I'd better give them the benefit of the doubt.

There are plenty of other good brands, but not for anywhere near $300, unless you're looking at used bikes.

You can't really go wrong with either i would say. But as always i am going to cast my vote for Downtube (sorry for the Broken Record thing) for all the many (and i think pretty good) reasons i have written in my other posts. No point repeating them again. But an additional consideration may be that in your budget the Downtube is pretty much the only bike with (dual) suspension, and considering you currently ride a MTB this may be a real consideration.. Although i don't know if your MTB has any suspension or if you do any offroading.

Lastly i think Downtube has just updated their webpage and added the 2006 models which is lighter and a little better too (and a lot cheaper too?!.. looks like, but memory fails me).

Thanks, Da Fri Mon and Evil Priest. ;)

Lots of stuff to consider. I ride fast, but on nice surfaces. I have seen guys doing cass-cou truicks on bikes and it scares heck out of me. So I probably won't stress any bike. FWIW, my current mountain bike has a front shock but nothing in back. Works for me. But as I say, I'm not a rough rider.

Thanks guys,

Vickie

Are there any external (to posters here) reviews on Downtubes. I read a lot of superlatives on this forum but cant find stuff elsewhere.

Where are DT's made? Does DT design them or do they buy the designs from China for example. Info on the site is limited.

Yes, very good idea about some independant reviews.

Yan submitted his bikes (last years models i think) to ROADBIKEREVIEW and
http://www.consumerreview.com, recently i believe, i just checked and there are no reviews yet. On the Downtube site there is a lot of info regarding the design of the bikes (All Yan's doing if i understand it correctly, makes sense too considering his background) not too sure where they are made but i would guess in Asia.

Perhaps Yan will chime in, though it might be better to repeat your Questions in the Downtube thread, that way all the Q & A will in be one place.

Vicki, the suspension thing, the Downtube with only the front suspension is really cheap, especially last years model. But no matter what brand you get, good luck with your decision, i'd be curious to hear what you get and how you like it.

Are there any external (to posters here) reviews on Downtubes. I read a lot of superlatives on this forum but cant find stuff elsewhere.

Where are DT's made? Does DT design them or do they buy the designs from China for example. Info on the site is limited.
Downtube's are made in China, designed and tested in the US. Roadbikereview.com should have some writeups soon.

Thanks,
Yan

thx yan. i meant external as in mags, journals, online zines and mags etc

thx yan. i meant external as in mags, journals, online zines and mags etc

None yet, however I met with a writer from Adventure Cyclist about a month ago.....I hope we get written up :)

I expect we will have several writeups in the near future.

Thanks,
Yan

@Vickienator - First off, love the matrushka! Second, welcome to the folder forum. A lot of info here. The Dahon is a good choice as I have a Boardwalk and I also have a Downtube (and a bunch of other folders). For the same price as the Dahon Boardwalk, you can get a nicely equipped Downtube (DT) with your choice of either full suspension or just front either of which is NOT an option on the Boardwalk.

I think you get more for the money you want to spend if you buy a Downtube. If you want to spend more you then the upper end Dahons are a better bet or I'd start to look at a Swift but for the $300 range the DT is tought to beat. In the $300-400 range they are very tough to beat. I bought 2 of them but I am not blind to their weaknesses. I am pretty unbiased as I have 3 Dahons, 1 Bike Friday, 2 Downtubes and a Swift. To some extent you get what you pay for but you can easily overpay and not get much more for the money.

Depending on how you ride there are some new DT's coming out such as a lightweight version and one with an internal hub. These might be of interest as well. Until the DT came along, Dahon pretty much had the $300 market in a lock. Competition is good for all of us and Yan of DT is a great guy to work with. Any issues I've had were promptly addressed.

Another plus of the DT vs. Dahon Boardwalk is that the handlebar is height adjustable. I had to buy an accessory handlebar stem so it would be height adjustable. Depending on your size this might be important (if you are tall or short). Pedals are better on the DT. More gears on the DT and better components. It isn't a fair comarison in many ways. DT also comes with a bike bag, Dahon is an option. The list goes on.

Either one will be great for what you most likely want to do but at this price point the DT is definitely the better value!

I will surely keep you apprised. This is a great forum! :)

Vickie

Hi WaveShreader,

I used the matrushka once in a PowerPoint on encapsulation. Made the point; also makes a nice icon, plus two of my girlfriends are Russian.

I am certainly going to give DownTube a serious look. Both DT & Dahon look like excellent bikes.

Thanks for the feedback.

<Vickie trudges off to do her homework>

Vickie

@Vickenator - I have a huge collection of matrushkas some classical but also more modern such as the Bill Clinton/Monica period. They sold a ton of them when I was in Moscow. I buy the latest politically incorrect ones each time I go back.

Please don't say those dirty words such as encapsulation, it reminds me too much of the 7 layer OSI model. The matrushka is a good analogy and I actually used it while trying to explain that the OSI mode to some friends in Russia. Homework is the other dirty word. I've been up to about 2-3AM each night studying for a major certification. I don't want to see any more textbooks for a LONG time!

Anyway good luck with whatever you purchase. Tough to go wrong with either one. They make great commuter bikes. I've used mine in Europe quite a bit as well as Russia. Actually I take my better folders but even the low end ones are great.

Hopefully we don't distract you too much from your homework. :)

WaveShreader,

Would'nt want to be in Russia right now. Brrrr!

Where I went to school, people were very serious. I took every opportunity to loosen things up a bit. Was a developer, but now do other things. Ironically, school changed it all, notwithstanding its ostensible focus on technology. Life is strange.

I recall late nights only too well. Have been out for two years and savor the freedom. :)

Good luck with your cert.

Vickie

Others are more into what comes along (i.e. components and accessories) with the bike. I tend to focus more on the basic bike-the frame and the basic important items (the drivetrain and position or the angle of the rear dropouts) found on bikes I like to use and to own. Then I change or modify (customize) the bike to what I want rather than worrying about what a group of people appear to want that bike designers are forced to appease.

For the 300 dollars that define your budget, Vickie, I would concentrate on the bike's frame (aluminum or steel) and upgrade as your need, wants and parts wear happens along. Downtube is a alumimun frame and the Dahon Boardwalk is a steel frame. Each has it's good and bad points. If one of the components is stopping you from considering that particular bike, this usually is easily corrected by subsituting another part-like a adjusting stem instead of a fixed stem in the case of the Boardwalk. It costs a few dollars that you could spend now or later as finances permit.

I myself have only steel frames on all my bikes (a Dahon Boardwalk, a vintage Phillips, and a Brompton), since I believe in steel and avoid aluminum at all costs. I prefer a clean uncluttered feel on my bikes so I do not have alot of accessories on any of the bikes unless I feel I need it. But to each his/her own.

Just let us know what you decide to purchase and Welcome to the world of folders!

To me "standard" components is a plus. I hate when companies use one-off (unique) parts that only work on THEIR bikes. That is what I like about DT. If a hub breaks, I can get a standard one not a special Brompton or Dahon one. So if Brompton or Dahon is out of business (not likely but could happen) I am not left with a POS if I can't find that special part.

As for frames I love aluminum. Maybe because my background is in aerospace and affordable aircraft are made of aluminum and then more "esoteric" materials. I love titanium and carbon fiber but too expensive in limited production runs. So if weight is a factor (and on a folder it is to me) aluminum is usually superior to steel IF they engineer it properly. Now will aluminum last a super long time in a bicycle frame vs. steel probably not but I don't plan on keeping this bike for 50 years. Technology marches on and I will upgrade at some point. So whether the frame will last 30,60 or 90 years is a moot point to me. If I am still riding in 60 years I'll not be worrying about the frame type that is for sure!

Currently my bike collection is 70/30 (steel/aluminum). If don't tweak the frame on a DT then most anyone less than Shaq probably won't.

It appears that Vickie has a price point in mind and doesn't want to exceed it. Some people like to tinker with their bikes and upgrade and some don't have the skills. If she just wants an appliance and not a work in progress (like buying a Harley) then the DT is a much better way to go and is easily uprgradeable. I did by a Boardwalk and then I had to buy the adjustable stem, and then this part, and that part and soon I had a lot of money in a cheap bike. I would have been better off buying a different model in some respects as now I have a bunch of parts I'll never use and no one else would want.

So when I ordered my Swift, I ordered all the custom stuff I wanted up front which saved me a ton of money and kept me from having a bunch of old parts I'll never need. It cost me more initially to do this but it saved me a lot in the long run. I like to tinker but I don't have much time to do it so it saved time as well.

Hi all,

I must add some important info.

I am mechanically ungifted. I don't ever want to have to take it apart. I just want to ride it <Vickie pouts>.

What matters to me:

1. It must fold;
2. It must be within shooting range of my budget [see footnote-1];
3. It must be cute [see footnote-2];
4. It must be light [like under 30#];
5. I would like a half-dozen gears or more;
6. Nice comfortable seat.

Footnotes: 1 - For reference, I got my mountain bike at Costco for $165 and love it!
2 - I know cute matters to all you guys too! <Vickie ducks>
Giatex is darling, but even collapsed it won't fit into Buttercup's trunk.

Thank you all for your expert input & feedback. I am bouncing between DownTube and Dahon. From what I hear, I can't really make a huge mistake with either. :)

Take care,

Vickie

Hi,

I apologize in advance if I am violating any protocols.

Am about to buy a folding bike and welcome the wisdom of all you knowledgeable folding bikers. :)

I am considering a Dahon Boardwalk-7 or a Dahon Speed-8. I plan to get it assembled and backed up at my local cyclery. I already have a normal mountain bike [great for normal mountains :rolleyes: ]...

So why get another bike? I live on California Central Coast [Monterey]. I would love to be able to bike in other cool places, like West Cliff [Santa Cruz], but my big bike [Ruby] won't fit in my new beetle.

1. So what do you think is the better bike? and...

2. Should I also be considering another make of folder [like DownTube]?

My budget is $300 [give or take fifty cents].

Thanks,

Vickie

Hey Vic! are you ever in SF? or more specifically Marin? if so, I have Downtubes and Dahons and a Swift sitting in my shop.. You would be welcome to test them out and get an idea of what you're in for.. My first guess is that you'd want something that is really easy to manipulate in and out of your car, in addition to being cute of course... I've got a couple of Helios P8's where the handle post folds 'in' (as in 'inside of the folded halves) and makes for a smaller fold and hence much easier to get in and out of tight trunks.. errr boots.. errr ... you know what I mean... I take my folders with me frequently in an Alfa convertible with a smallish trunk... the Dahons (with the handle posts folding to the inside) are a much easier package to deal with.. the P8 also have 8 speeds, are relatively lightweight, comfortable and are finished in a sexy brushed aluminum.. nice bikes.. anyway, offer's open.

Bruce

Ha ha Vickie, don't tell me you have a yellow beetle you named "Buttercup". My wife has a yellow beetle too and that is her pet name for it (Her?)

Rik

Hi Bruce,

SF is a beautiful drive up Highway 1 [as you know]. I get up there from time to time. Next time I do - if I haven't already done what must be done foldingBikeWise - I shall take you up on your kind offer. There's nothing as good as a test drive. :) And Marin isn't that much further.

Can you ID your shop for me so I can find it if/when I go up there?

My email is Seahorse@Redshift.com

Thanks,

Vickie

Hey Rik,

How did you guess my beetle's color?!?! ;)

Sounds like your wife and I share the same sense of aesthetics. I love my beetle! Bet she does too.

Vickie

CUTE?! CUTE?!! You Say?! I don't doooo 'cute',..... ;)

No seriously i think almost all stock folders have a certain cuteness to them because of the smaller wheels. From what i hear you would probably be best off with an Aluminium bike (lifting in and out of trunk) that is ready to go from day one with a minimum of alterations. I agree with all the points made above concerning materials (i too make exceptions for folders to be used for multi mode transportation = lifting) as wel as the points about standardization. Even if one is not a tinkerer,.. components will inevitably wear out at some point and hence need replacement, so for me standardization is a Big pro, possibly even a deal breaker or maker.

If there was a Strida with gears in your price range that might have been an interesting alternative too.

As for a very comfy saddle, IMO pretty much every folder in your price range has a decent saddle at best. Unless your rides are never longer than 30 to 60 minutes i'd really not count on the standard saddle being adequate if you plan to ride your bike for some years. This is one of the components that manufacturers can save money and weight on and they usually do. This is not a bad thing i think, just how it usually is. I personally feel that upgrading your saddle (if you know what you like and/or have your sitbones measured) is always worth it if you ride any significant amount.

Hey Rik,

How did you guess my beetle's color?!?! ;)

Sounds like your wife and I share the same sense of aesthetics. I love my beetle! Bet she does too.

Vickie

I have a black Beetle that I love. both bikes will go pretty well in the trunk area. I think it is easier though with the DT because if needed I can lower the handlebar down. Biggest PITA is the Beetle's high liftover height. I also like the fact that the DT has folding pedals on both sides. The Beetle/bike combo is great for commuting and allows me to get better parking places and then still commute as needed.

All of you stop talking about Hwy 1. I am original from So Cal and living here in this frozen tundra can really be a drag in the winter. At least today I got a chance to ride for about 10 miles today even though it was below freezing. Today I rode the DT since it lends itself more to bad roads than some of my other folders.

Buy the bike you won't have to tinker with. That way you can use the bike not work on it!

Evil Pries: DownTube is aluminum. Sounds light enough. But Dahon says it's "Chromaloy." What the heck is that? And which [if either] resists dings and wear better?

WaveShreader: Great comparable experience [your beetle]! If our beetles were in proximity, they would be a bumble bee.

I am happy to hear about the fit. I am original So Cal too [born in LA]. Where are you now? Why don't you return to Shangri-la? It was in the sixties today here. :)

Vickie

Evil Pries: DownTube is aluminum. Sounds light enough. But Dahon says it's "Chromaloy." What the heck is that? And which [if either] resists dings and wear better?

WaveShreader: Great comparable experience [your beetle]! If our beetles were in proximity, they would be a bumble bee.

I am happy to hear about the fit. I am original So Cal too [born in LA]. Where are you now? Why don't you return to Shangri-la? It was in the sixties today here. :)

Vickie

@Vickenator - As for the question about Chromaloy, did you mean chromoly steel? That is a high strengthy type of steel. It is very strong and can way less than aluminum in some applications but for light weight I still favor aluminum over steel.

For your next comment about the beetles; LMAO. I can't stop laughing about the bumblebee comment. I was born in Santa Monica. Now I am stuck in Minnesnowtah. Everyone talks funny here. I still love So Cal. Today we had a heat wave and tonight it actually went up to 37!!!! Wooo hooo! I am going out and going skinny dipping in this tropical heat wave.

I may relocated back to Cali someday but not in the near future. I am sort of tied to the job market here but...if I get a job I have gone to 5 interviews for already I could live almost anywhere in the world. So here's crossing my fingers, toes, eyes, etc.

A Chromo steel frame is usually 5 to 30% (rough estimate) heavier than a comparable Alu. On the upside they tend to be more durable (hotly debated on these threads) and a lot of people (including myself) think they can be more comfortable (though comfort depends on many factors!) Aluminium is fine and strong/resistent enough if it is designed well. Unless you are sure you are going to batter your bike are that you want to keep it for more than 10 or 20 years Alu is probably fine.

All of you stop talking about Hwy 1. I am original from So Cal and living here in this frozen tundra can really be a drag in the winter. At least today I got a chance to ride for about 10 miles today even though it was below freezing. Today I rode the DT since it lends itself more to bad roads than some of my other folders.


Wav, would you rather I talk about riding in shorts and a tank-top yesterday?? or the Chameleon project?? haha..

Bruce

To me "standard" components is a plus. I hate when companies use one-off (unique) parts that only work on THEIR bikes. That is what I like about DT. If a hub breaks, I can get a standard one not a special Brompton or Dahon one. So if Brompton or Dahon is out of business (not likely but could happen) I am not left with a POS if I can't find that special part.

As for frames I love aluminum. Maybe because my background is in aerospace and affordable aircraft are made of aluminum and then more "esoteric" materials. I love titanium and carbon fiber but too expensive in limited production runs. So if weight is a factor (and on a folder it is to me) aluminum is usually superior to steel IF they engineer it properly. Now will aluminum last a super long time in a bicycle frame vs. steel probably not but I don't plan on keeping this bike for 50 years. Technology marches on and I will upgrade at some point. So whether the frame will last 30,60 or 90 years is a moot point to me. If I am still riding in 60 years I'll not be worrying about the frame type that is for sure!

Currently my bike collection is 70/30 (steel/aluminum). If don't tweak the frame on a DT then most anyone less than Shaq probably won't.

It appears that Vickie has a price point in mind and doesn't want to exceed it. Some people like to tinker with their bikes and upgrade and some don't have the skills. If she just wants an appliance and not a work in progress (like buying a Harley) then the DT is a much better way to go and is easily uprgradeable. I did by a Boardwalk and then I had to buy the adjustable stem, and then this part, and that part and soon I had a lot of money in a cheap bike. I would have been better off buying a different model in some respects as now I have a bunch of parts I'll never use and no one else would want.

So when I ordered my Swift, I ordered all the custom stuff I wanted up front which saved me a ton of money and kept me from having a bunch of old parts I'll never need. It cost me more initially to do this but it saved me a lot in the long run. I like to tinker but I don't have much time to do it so it saved time as well.

I just want to clarify my own backround. I am the most non-mechanical person in the world. I was in the Social Sciences when I was in college and working world afterwards. The major modifications were done in a LBS mostly on the Dahon S1 to convert in into a three speed since Dahon seems quicker to push the Vitesse or some other aluminum frame model on people-and not offer a simple steel frame with horizontal rear dropouts bikes to the US market at the time of my bike's purchase. The exotic materials don't move me like my mechanical engineer sister who goes for that sort of thing. The other 2 bikes were stripped down to basic components and accessories only to save weight, cost, and eliminate clutter and dangling derailleurs (and deter would be thieves). I have used aluminum framed bikes on occaision. They are fine for people who want to change bikes like they change clothes or life partners here in the US. Steel frames offer me the choice of modification-none to cold setting the dropouts to accept a new rear hub-without losing the other things that attracted me to that particular bike in the first place.

Remember: Steel is flexible and forgiving-Aluminium is not. (My sister is fuming as I write this!)

Hi,

I guess that by "Chromoly" they mean the steel alloy. I am not hard on anything I own, so whatever bike I get will look like new five years from now. Yah, I wax my bike. Bikes like that, just like they appreciate being spoken to kindly, apologized to when it's rainy and you can't take them out for a spin. Hey, bikes have feelings too. But we all know that. ;)

Vickie

I am glad we all have choices. I come from an aerospace background and aluminum is almost always used because it is light and strong and MUCH cheaper than titanium or carbon fiber. Just as there are alloys of steel such as cromoly, there are equally superior variants of aluminum. You pay your money and take your choice.

One thing I like about aluminum is can often dampen vibrations without any noticable flexing. My concern is if you make a frame too rigid (some would argue you never can) that ride quality can suffer. I personally like the little bit of adsorbtion that aluminum provides. Plus I can weld aluminum so repairs aren't an issue for me if needed combine that with I won't have most any bike more than 5-10 years and the lifespan of an aluminum frame (if shorter) won't really matter. So for me I'll take the weight savings up front thank you especially since it is on the heaviest part of the entire bike. What kind of rims do you have on your bike? Steel? Cromo? Aluminum?

@Vikckienator - my bikes, cars, motorcycles, boats and trucks all have feelings too. It is a shame more people don't understand it. My ex said she wanted to me to take care of her like my vehicles. I said "I do dear and an extra bonus is you don't have to sleep in the garage and I serve you breakfast in bed." ;)