Touring - Ortlieb -- front or rear panniers a better investment?

Hello there. I have a Gardin touring bike from Toronto which I love and am looking forward to doing my first loaded tours this spring. The first two are only a few days each, and then a week-long one later in May. No tent or stove required for any of them, so it will mostly be clothing and a few tools that I will bring along.

I already have an inexpensive pair of non-waterproof (rear) panniers, and have decided to invest in some Ortlieb panniers because of the constant rain in the UK where I will be touring.

My question is, should I buy *front* Ortlieb panniers [25 litres, £57-76], and put the bulk of the weight up front? I have researched this and everyone seems to agree that putting 40% of the weight up front is a good idea. I can always throw any stray items that I don't mind getting wet into my current panniers.

Or, should I buy *rear* Ortlieb panniers [40 litres, £71-103] because they are more versatile and will hold more? Will they fit on a front rack?

I don't have a front rack yet but I have brazeons so can fit whichever rack suits.

I should note: I don't see a tent in my future, or a primus stove. ;)

Lolly,

I don't know if your considering the rolltop or the classic style Ortleibs.

I use Orts. I think putting either rolltop or classic back panniers on a front low rider rack would be a lot of mass and weight attached to the fork. Those things are HUGE!

But you could do it, I suppose. They might work pretty good on a highmount front rack.

But the smaller front orts are still pretty big. They also work great as rear panniers if you have any 26" bikes or use a bike that doesn't have long seatstays. I use the small ones as shopping bags on my 26" urban commando ride.

In small front Ortleibs I can pack my sleeping bag, tent, sleeping pad, first aid kit, and assorted small stuff, they have suprising capacity.

The small ones are more versatile in my opinion.

I have the Ortlieb Sport Packer Plus, front and rear.
I've used the large rear panniers for commuting, groceries, etc.

I've done some short weekend stayovers at friends and carried my sleeping bag, clothes, and some road food in the fronts, mounted on the rear rack. (with my handlebar bag)

The rear panniers are huge!

You might like the smaller front panniers, esp. if you don't need a tent and cooking gear. It will also force you to make decisions about what you are carrying... I'm constantly amazed at how much stuff I carry and never use... and I try to eliminate things each time I do it...

I agree with Beko I would get the front rollers they are a good size and are adequate for two and 3 day tours, Besides once you use them on a rainy tour you will throw away the others and buy a rear set. BTW a lot of people tour with just rear panniers(including my self ocassionaly) and they get along just fine without any weight on the front.

The small ones are more versatile in my opinion.

Thanks Bek! That is helpful. I am thinking of getting the ones with a lid. I don't have a 26" bike -- these will only be used on my Gardin.

Maybe the 30L Sportpacker Plus is a good compromise?

I agree with Beko I would get the front rollers they are a good size and are adequate for two and 3 day tours, Besides once you use them on a rainy tour you will throw away the others and buy a rear set. BTW a lot of people tour with just rear panniers(including my self ocassionaly) and they get along just fine without any weight on the front.

Thanks velonomad. I am thinking of these as my *main* panniers, and my inclination is to get smaller rather than larger ones so that I don't carry more than I really need. Sportpacker 30 litre ones seem sensible?

I didn't see your post bmike!


I have the Ortlieb Sport Packer Plus, front and rear.

You are pleased with them then?


You might like the smaller front panniers, esp. if you don't need a tent and cooking gear. It will also force you to make decisions about what you are carrying... I'm constantly amazed at how much stuff I carry and never use... and I try to eliminate things each time I do it...

Thanks, I think that is what I am hoping for to. It is too easy to bring a lot of stuff and then regret it as it slows you down.

I mean, just because I *can* carry both front and rear panniers doesn't mean I necessarily want to.

I didn't see your post bmike!
You are pleased with them then?


Very happy. Waterproof, great quality.
I ordered the small ones first, and as soon as I took them out of the box I was on the phone ordering the large ones.

The small ones stay on my commuter / tourer. I've used them for work stuff and for going to the co-op for groceries, as well as overnighters to friends, or when I can ride somewhere and not drive.


I also have an Ortlieb handlebar bag. I like the quality and capacity of all their products that I own. My handlebar bag carries my digicam, and it has been through downpours without so much as a drop on the inside. Same with the Sport Packer Plus...

The panniers are one compartment, with a small mesh pouch on the outside. I feel this gives alot of options in what and how you pack. Some like pockets, I like the flexibility of the big pouch.

Ortlieb does make accessory small pouches to add to any of their panniers, and I've thought about buying 2 of those - one to use for my tool kit and things, the other for small stuff I want to get at.

That's really helpful bmike. I am nearly certain the Sport Packers will be the ones for me.

That's really helpful bmike. I am nearly certain the Sport Packers will be the ones for me.

Here's a pic, for scale: (mounted on the rear, with bags fully "open" in the vert direction to unload - they pack smaller depending on how tight you pull everything)


http://www.mikebeganyi.com/weblog/images/bike-office.jpg

Thanks bmike. It helps to see how they look on a bike!

I have calculated the cost/litre of storage capacity. The Sport Packer Plus are £2.53 per litre, whereas the Bike Packer Plus are only £2.13. (£76 vs £86 for SP vs BP -- they are on offer right now, and the BP are marked down more substantially than the SP). . . . Decisions, decisions!

I like that the Sport Packer can go on the front rack, in the event I go mad and decide I want to add a [bigger] set of [rear] panniers.

I haven't seen a Sportpacker in person but they look fine to me, 30 liters is a good size and will hold a lot.

The only reason that I would not buy the Sportpacker for my own use is that I also tour off road and the mesh pockets will snag on brush and briars.

I haven't seen a Sportpacker in person but they look fine to me, 30 liters is a good size and will hold a lot.

The only reason that I would not buy the Sportpacker for my own use is that I also tour off road and the mesh pockets will snag on brush and briars.

The mesh is really tight to the bag, not droopy, etc.

Thanks bmike. It helps to see how they look on a bike!

I have calculated the cost/litre of storage capacity. The Sport Packer Plus are £2.53 per litre, whereas the Bike Packer Plus are only £2.13. (£76 vs £86 for SP vs BP -- they are on offer right now, and the BP are marked down more substantially than the SP). . . . Decisions, decisions!

I like that the Sport Packer can go on the front rack, in the event I go mad and decide I want to add a [bigger] set of [rear] panniers.

I need to clarify.
I have the black, Sport Packer Plus for the front.


http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/images/large/SportPackerPlus.gif

I have the black, Bike Packer Pus for the rear.


http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/images/large/BikePackerPlus.gif

Thanks bmike. I figured that was what you meant. :)

I used to use my front paniers as rear bags all the time. But I got heel strikes quite a bit because of the square shape. I didn't change it around because even though they were contoured I never thought the larger paniers would have better clearance, but they did. So, check out heel clearance before you do that.

If it was me I would buy the big ones and put them on the rear. All the theory about weight distribution shouldn't make any difference with the amount of gear you are hauling. Having weight only on the front of the bike certainly affects handling worse for me than having weight on the back. It is also more dangerous if you get a snag or a bag flies off, which an Otlieb shouldn't.

I don't know why you would need to buy small bags to keep the gear reasonable, just say no to excess weight, you are the one who will have to carry it, isn't that incentive enough? What I do fear about the small bags is having the space to hold bulky light items like jackets, towels, sweaters. Depends on what you like to carry.

I don't know why you would need to buy small bags to keep the gear reasonable, just say no to excess weight, you are the one who will have to carry it, isn't that incentive enough?


I know - self discipline... but if there's room in a bag, I tend to fill it! I'm more selective while packing, and grocery shopping, etc. when I use the small bags.

If I mounted the larges bags for going to work I'd bring my desk home everynight! :D

Thanks Bek! That is helpful. I am thinking of getting the ones with a lid. I don't have a 26" bike -- these will only be used on my Gardin.

Maybe the 30L Sportpacker Plus is a good compromise?

I'd suggest going with the smaller ones also. If you aren't going to camp or cook food, smaller is better.

I might suggest a bit higher fraction of weight on your front wheel however. 60% on the front is what I use and I find the bike handles better that way. If you get everything into the front bags, carry only those on a lowrider. My wife has done this for many tours and never had a problem with handling. I do the same when I use panniers while commuting. The weight on the front wheel dampens the steering a bit but it still handles well. Try it at home before you set out by loading bags with rice and beans and going for a spin.

Thanks very much for the suggestions.

I hadn't considered heel strikes, but I wouldn't think that with the Sport Packer that would be a problem?

As for carrying bulky light items, I don't really have a lot. All the stuff I would potentially take is geared toward compressing into a small size and not being bulky.

I only did one loaded tour with the (non-waterproof) panniers and I wasn't crazy about how "top-heavy" the bike felt. They were 25L panniers and weren't stuffed full. The much-higher centre of gravity was a bit unnerving. I got use to it, but I am not crazy about it.

The idea of carrying my stuff low and in the front is very appealing because of this.

Did I mention I fell three times in the first ten minutes the first time I rode with loaded panniers? :«

Thanks very much for the suggestions.

I hadn't considered heel strikes, but I wouldn't think that with the Sport Packer that would be a problem?



I doubt it, but it depends on your bike and chainstay length.
I have a Trek 520, and mount the Sport Packers and the Bike Packers to the rack that came from the factory. No problems for me... even with the large ones loaded up.

A low rider front rack is the way to go for carrying things up front.

Got to agree with the general tread. But that cos we all ride right. Go as small as possible and get the weight forward. May seam counter intuative but front paniers and low riders are the way to go.

Just to put a spanner in the works. if you can get the weight low, really low go for a big wedge behind the seat. Also ortoleeb. As in my mate this year touring in Italy.

Sorry wanted to attach a photo but could not get it to work. This is a really neat bag though. Keeps the profile low.

Got to agree with the general tread. But that cos we all ride right. Go as small as possible and get the weight forward. May seam counter intuative but front paniers and low riders are the way to go.

Just to put a spanner in the works. if you can get the weight low, really low go for a big wedge behind the seat. Also ortoleeb. As in my mate this year touring in Italy.

Sorry wanted to attach a photo but could not get it to work. This is a really neat bag though. Keeps the profile low.

I've been considering getting a large Ortlieb seat pack for long solo rides and Brevet's.
I just can't find any pictures comparing the 3 sizes and how they mount on the saddle.

I usually overstuff the expandable wedge I have, but it's not waterproof, and bounces around quite a bit.

I've been considering getting a large Ortlieb seat pack for long solo rides and Brevet's.
I just can't find any pictures comparing the 3 sizes and how they mount on the saddle.

I usually overstuff the expandable wedge I have, but it's not waterproof, and bounces around quite a bit.

Try this link:

Otrlieb USA (http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/prod-39.htm) and then hit click to enlarge. It's not a bad photo of the bag in situ.

for bmike -- a few better photos:

Large Ortlieb saddle bag (http://www.tour-magazin.de/to/tour_artikel/pspic/bildserieFP/23/satteltasc416ea44a0aef3.jpg)

Great stuff on this page, scroll down to "Ortlieb-Satteltaschen" and there are two good photos:

German touring site (http://www.birdy-freunde.de/mybirdy/gepaeck.html)

Hope that helps!

Do many people put rear Ortlieb panniers on the front, besides this guy?

Cindie and Tim's bikes (http://www.downtheroad.org/images/DSC00h005.JPG)

Would it be very unweildy? They are 10 litres bigger than the 30 litre ones I am considering.