Advocacy & Safety - Sometimes there is nothing you can do (close call)

I normally ride vehicularly, take the lane when I need to etc. However, yesterday I had a close call that showed that sometimes there is nothing you can do.

I was riding down a road at about 27MPH (its a slight downhill) in the middle of the lane. I had given the car ahead of me lots of space. He slows down and has his left indicator blinking (the road is wide enough that two cars can travel abreast, in fact, it almost has a turning lane) and moves all the way to the left. He has left a space wide enough for a car or a truck to safely pass on his right. I continue straight and right before I pass him on the right he decides to take a RIGHT!. He guns it and goes straight and veers right into my path. It seems that he was intending to pull into a parking lot on the left until he saw a parking spot a bit ahead to the right.

Here I am moving at 27MPH. By the time I realized what this knuckle-head was pulling I had two choices

1. Grab a handful of brake and hope to stop. However, by virtue of how fast he had cut me off there was no such chance of me stopping before he sideswipes me.

2. keep going and swerve right and hope to squeak by the idiot and the parked cars on the right.

I passed him with about 1 inch between my handlebar and his mirror. I was also a couple of inches from the parked cars on the right. I was yelling bloody murder but it wouldn't have helped. He actually almost clipped my rear wheel.

I kept going but I was tempted to loop round and go berserk on him for almost killing me. No matter how much you prepare and watch out, you will always find the driver who does something so boneheadedly stupid that there is almost no way you could prepare for it.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Congratulations on still being alive! :)

I kept going but I was tempted to loop round and go berserk on him for almost killing me. No matter how much you prepare and watch out, you will always find the driver who does something so boneheadedly stupid that there is almost no way you could prepare for it.

Like the pizza guy that ran the red just in front of me last spring... I had no idea he was there as he was in his far right lane and I could not see him through the other cars that were patiently waiting at the light...

It is amazing what goes through your mind when that stuff happens...

You didn't stop, but if I were you, I would have... I would have read that driver the riot act.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Congratulations on still being alive! :)

Thanks :)

It freaked me out. I even got scared more later when I thought of exactly what would have happened had my left handlebar clipped his right mirror and I'd lost control.

Like the pizza guy that ran the red just in front of me last spring... I had no idea he was there as he was in his far right lane and I could not see him through the other cars that were patiently waiting at the light...

It is amazing what goes through your mind when that stuff happens...

You didn't stop, but if I were you, I would have... I would have read that driver the riot act.

I know. I should have stopped but my problem is that I was so full of adrenaline that if the driver had given me lip I don't know how I would have reacted. However, I could have looped back and taken the number plate.

An audi did that to me once. He ended up with a big dent in his rear wing & passenger door, plus me lying across his rear window... Me? Bit of red paint on the left pedal. Tip: If you're going get hit by a car, make it one with good aerodynamics... :-D

I almost got creamed by a crap-for-brains in a black Mazda that decided to go right from the left lane at an intersection the other week. Then there was the ditz that backed into a parking space from another, then pulled out and backed into it again. Or the dimwits that cut off busses and light rail, when not slamming right into them. I lost count of meatheads that floor it and blow past me too close as I signal for a left turn, or at stop signs...
God must love idiots. He gave us too damn many. :rolleyes:

No matter how much you prepare and watch out, you will always find the driver who does something so boneheadedly stupid that there is almost no way you could prepare for it.

That's why you always plan for Murphy - plan for the other guy doing the stupidest thing possible, then you are prepared to deal with it when he does, rather than being surprised. When a car is stopped in the roadway ahead of me, I always slow down and watch him close, I don't care which way his signals are indicating...and I do the same when I am driving.

You really should have stopped, and let him know that you are a rational and sensible person, who happens to be on a bike. For all you know, he may think you're one of those ss/fixie guys getting cheap thrills dodging cars. Best to stop, open your wallet, and show him a picture of your wife and kids, then remind him that he's not the only one on the damn road.

Close call indeed. I'm glad you're okay. My only suggestion is to always apply extra vigilance, and brakes, when passing on the right. However, from this armchair, it's hard to say how much, if any, slowing down might have helped in this case.

That's why you always plan for Murphy - plan for the other guy doing the stupidest thing possible, then you are prepared to deal with it when he does, rather than being surprised. When a car is stopped in the roadway ahead of me, I always slow down and watch him close, I don't care which way his signals are indicating...and I do the same when I am driving.

Word. :rolleyes:

I don't think motorists really expect cyclists to be passing them. They seem to indicate this often by their behavior. Sometimes its as if they don't even know we're there.

Thanks for the reminder!

There is something you could have done to avoid this accident. As stupid and unpredictable as the motorist's behavior was, it is illegal to pass cars on the right. Aside from this dummy's actions, drivers coming from cross streets farther down the road will see this car stopped in the only travel lane, and will assume no cars will be approaching and it is safe for them to pull out. They won't be able to see you behind the stopped car until you pop around him going 30mph.

I know it sucks to slow down when you're going so fast, but you should never pass a running car on the right.

I know it sucks to slow down when you're going so fast, but you should never pass a running car on the right.

Except that the guy in the car behind me probably hasn't read his driver's handbook lately. I've nearly been hit from behind by a car wedging through under similar circumstances.

I wouldn't have stopped either.

Except that the guy in the car behind me probably hasn't read his driver's handbook lately. I've nearly been hit from behind by a car wedging through under similar circumstances.

I wouldn't have stopped either.

tough situation, I hadn't considered that. I still think you'd be safer stopped close to the car front than you would be zipping past stopped cars. I've seen way too many morons turn against their own signal. Maybe passing the car would be OK, but not at 27 mph.

And then of course there are the morons that make right turns from left lanes... pretty hard to predict that as whole lanes are involved. I have only seen this once in about 10 years... so it probably doesn't happen often...

After all the years of being parked on, turned on, doors opened on and being told.... "I'm sorry, I didn't see you.." I've come to the conclusion that when I ride I am invisible despite the day light, colours I wear or the lights I ride with. We are vehicular ninjas. I don't watch signals...the MOST EXPENSIVE OPTION on the car obviously as sooo many ppl didn't buy them. I watch the front wheels and the head of the driver, after riding in traffic for almost 20 years I know he's gonna turn almost before he does. You can't always stop for every ahole. He signals left, that is his signal. You go right and then he changes his mind with no signal, his fault your fault whatever.... just be prepared. Yell scream scratch and hit. Knock the damned mirror off his car. No sense letting his mirror take you down, remove it from the equation with a swat or an elbow. Then deal with the aftermath later.

It's not easy to get killed by a car.... If you get popped by the side you aren't dead. Mashed and bashed maybe but not dead. I've gone around corners with my hands on the roof of the ignorant drivers car while riding....again I'm sorry I didn't see you in my passenger window as I look in the opposite direction for my turn.

I don't get freaked until the six inch rule is broken. I've pushed many a drifting car away with a polite knuckle knock on the windows or sheetmetal. Seriously, like knocking a door, just a tap tap. I know this doesn't apply here. What applies here is high speed handing skills. being able to carve and lean around sudden obstacles, and keeping your head about you. Remember you are alone out there, but at this point you'd have to drop your car out of the sky to get me I think.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Congratulations on still being alive! :)

Amen!

I have no patience for these idiots anymore, I would have gone bezerk on him, even if it would have landed me in jail.

Some people do not deserve to drive.

jw

it is illegal to pass cars on the right.
Not everywhere, and certainly not in CA. I don't know about MA. I'm pretty sure it is legal to pass a car turning left on the right just about everywhere.

But like I said before, passing on the right is a time to be extra vigilant and to slow down.

After all the years of being parked on, turned on, doors opened on and being told.... "I'm sorry, I didn't see you.." I've come to the conclusion that when I ride I am invisible despite the day light, colours I wear or the lights I ride with. We are vehicular ninjas. I don't watch signals...the MOST EXPENSIVE OPTION on the car obviously as sooo many ppl didn't buy them. I watch the front wheels and the head of the driver, after riding in traffic for almost 20 years I know he's gonna turn almost before he does. You can't always stop for every ahole. He signals left, that is his signal. You go right and then he changes his mind with no signal, his fault your fault whatever.... just be prepared. Yell scream scratch and hit. Knock the damned mirror off his car. No sense letting his mirror take you down, remove it from the equation with a swat or an elbow. Then deal with the aftermath later.

It's not easy to get killed by a car.... If you get popped by the side you aren't dead. Mashed and bashed maybe but not dead. I've gone around corners with my hands on the roof of the ignorant drivers car while riding....again I'm sorry I didn't see you in my passenger window as I look in the opposite direction for my turn.

I don't get freaked until the six inch rule is broken. I've pushed many a drifting car away with a polite knuckle knock on the windows or sheetmetal. Seriously, like knocking a door, just a tap tap. I know this doesn't apply here. What applies here is high speed handing skills. being able to carve and lean around sudden obstacles, and keeping your head about you. Remember you are alone out there, but at this point you'd have to drop your car out of the sky to get me I think.


After years and years of cycling, this "invisible ninja" method was what I had come to accept as my cycling method... I called it casper mode, as no matter what I did, some folks still couldn't see me.

Now the thing that bothers me the most is the speed at which roads are being pushed. At 25MPH and even 35MPH I could probably survive a brush aside incident... but roads are being pushed to 45, 55 and even 65MPH... and at those speeds I am more likely to become road kill and I don't like it. And even the roads marked at 35MPH are being driven at 40+...

This and the inconsiderate nature of some drivers is just making the roads "not fun."

Yeah they can be navigated and ridden... but it just isn't much fun just trying to just "stay alive." Frogger anyone?

27 is pretty fast. at that speed, in traffic, you have a very small amount of time to correct a situation. even if you slam the brakes, you'll be skidding for a good distance.

i've had too many instances like this and they scare the crap out of me. after i finally got hit i changed the way i ride. i rarely crank the speed when i'm in the city, it's just not worth it. glad you're safe though!

You really should have stopped, and let him know that you are a rational and sensible person, who happens to be on a bike. For all you know, he may think you're one of those ss/fixie guys getting cheap thrills dodging cars. Best to stop, open your wallet, and show him a picture of your wife and kids, then remind him that he's not the only one on the damn road.

'fixie guys' are rational, sensible people too...

sometimes with the occasional family as well

You really should have stopped, and let him know that you are a rational and sensible person, who happens to be on a bike. For all you know, he may think you're one of those ss/fixie guys getting cheap thrills dodging cars. Best to stop, open your wallet, and show him a picture of your wife and kids, then remind him that he's not the only one on the damn road.
Yup, I'm on a fix and don't have a wife or kids (or a husband for that matter) and my wallet is pretty much empty. Tell him to hit me instead.

For all you know, he may think you're one of those ss/fixie guys getting cheap thrills dodging cars.
and you are a moderator why???

Thanks for the stereotyping. Can't wait to see what you have in store for us "ss/fg" folks in your next appearance!
Yeah, cheap thrills. Like making sweeping generalizations about other riders. How awesome you must be. I hope we can all learn from your observations.

and dodging cars isn't "cheap thrills"...it's trying not to become roadkill while still making time. because i dodge traffic, i get places in one piece and faster than most people in cars can.

those damn fixie guys :rolleyes:

i agree with traffic jammer. totally. ninja riding. that's how i think of that "cheap thrill". you can't trust cars, so don't try. just have your eyes open and use your ears as eyes on the back of your head, know the little signals, go quick, but not too fast to control your vehicle, and dodge--cuz sometimes it is dodge or get hit.

Yup, I'm on a fix and don't have a wife or kids (or a husband for that matter) and my wallet is pretty much empty. Tell him to hit me instead.

You were sounding pretty interesting until you mentioned the wallet thing. :eek:

Funny thing, I ran into an almost identical situation tonight. I am crossing an intersection through a green light in the left lane, two cars ahead of me. The right lane ends within 300 ft of the intersection, so most traffic in that lane usually turn right, except for the occassional idiot who wants to get ahead of traffic by a few cars. Anyway, the first car ahead of me stops not even a car length past the intersection to turn left into a gas station. The car behind her stops as well, leaving me kind of hanging in the intersection with the light changing. So I look to my right rear, nobody coming up on the right, so I move into the right lane to pass, since oncoming traffic isn't going to let the first car turn for a bit and the second car seems content to wait. Of course I am watching the car directly ahead of me, in case he swerves right to pass too, but he doesn't. Ironically, I was thinking about the OP as I am passing the car directly to my front when, sure enough, the car waiting to make a left suddenly makes a hard right from the left lane she was sitting in to go into the gas station on the opposite corner, left blinker still on! I was able to slow enough and cut back left behind her, so I was never really in any danger, but I had to laugh...she sure enough did the stupidest thing possible. If I had been impatient and just hauled butt around the right, I might have got clipped.

There is something you could have done to avoid this accident. As stupid and unpredictable as the motorist's behavior was, it is illegal to pass cars on the right. Aside from this dummy's actions, drivers coming from cross streets farther down the road will see this car stopped in the only travel lane, and will assume no cars will be approaching and it is safe for them to pull out. They won't be able to see you behind the stopped car until you pop around him going 30mph.

I know it sucks to slow down when you're going so fast, but you should never pass a running car on the right.

This road was pretty wide (2 cars can fit side by side without even factoring it the white line and then the 2 foot space to the parked cars and he was in what is essentially a turning lane, leaving the lane going straight empty (I see cars driving down this road two abreast). Thats why he caught me by suprise, he pretty much swerved out of the turning lane, crossed one car width, crossed the other and then over the white lane trying to get to that parking spot. What I did is what a driver behind me would have done too.

oh, my two cents--if there's no cop around, screw the laws. sometimes it's safer to break them, and what matters is not getting killed by some latte-drinking hippo in a denali.

And then of course there are the morons that make right turns from left lanes... pretty hard to predict that as whole lanes are involved. I have only seen this once in about 10 years... so it probably doesn't happen often...
Come to Boston, you will see it much more often. Especially the dimwits who indicate right, swerve right and then swing round (they wanted to make a U-Turn). I never pass someone who indicates going right until I am sure that yes, they are not making a U-Turn.

I actually am more prepared for that than I am with someone turning left and then changing their mind and swerving right.

This road was pretty wide (2 cars can fit side by side without even factoring it the white line and then the 2 foot space to the parked cars and he was in what is essentially a turning lane, leaving the lane going straight empty (I see cars driving down this road two abreast). Thats why he caught me by suprise, he pretty much swerved out of the turning lane, crossed one car width, crossed the other and then over the white lane trying to get to that parking spot. What I did is what a driver behind me would have done too.

Yeah I hear ya, but as both a driver or a cyclist I still would not trust the guy waiting to turn and would have slowed down. Like ole Ronnie Reagan said - 'trust, but verify'! :)

Yup, I'm on a fix and don't have a wife or kids (or a husband for that matter) and my wallet is pretty much empty. Tell him to hit me instead.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Yeah I hear ya, but as both a driver or a cyclist I still would not trust the guy waiting to turn and would have slowed down. Like ole Ronnie Reagan said - 'trust, but verify'! :)

Yup, learnt my lesson on that one.

'fixie guys' are rational, sensible people too...

sometimes with the occasional family as well

Didn't say they weren't. But by not stopping, he leaves the clueless motorist to form his own opinion. So how does that motorist know if the guy he almost hit was merely taking evasive action, or playing a game of "Chicken" with traffic? And maybe the motorist would think twice about making a move like that if he realized that he almost killed a husband and father. But feel free to turn it around any way you like. It's a free world. Just don't look to me for any kind of apology.



Yup, I'm on a fix and don't have a wife or kids (or a husband for that matter) and my wallet is pretty much empty. Tell him to hit me instead.

I guess I missed the part where I suggested or implied that. My point was that baiskeli was commuting, he was not out dodging cars for fun.



']and you are a moderator why???

Thanks for the stereotyping. Can't wait to see what you have in store for us "ss/fg" folks in your next appearance!
Yeah, cheap thrills. Like making sweeping generalizations about other riders. How awesome you must be. I hope we can all learn from your observations.

Please explain your question. And why aren't you a moderator? I'm not trying to paint everyone in SS/FG with the same brush, but you've made that assumption. As far as the cheap thrills, you are correct. I'm sure the videos of the SS/FG guys cutting in and out of traffic, running lights and stop signs between beer stops, I'm sure that's not just about cheap thrills. So one word for you: Whatever.



and dodging cars isn't "cheap thrills"...it's trying not to become roadkill while still making time. because i dodge traffic, i get places in one piece and faster than most people in cars can.

those damn fixie guys :rolleyes:

i agree with traffic jammer. totally. ninja riding. that's how i think of that "cheap thrill". you can't trust cars, so don't try. just have your eyes open and use your ears as eyes on the back of your head, know the little signals, go quick, but not too fast to control your vehicle, and dodge--cuz sometimes it is dodge or get hit.

Right. And what is the public perception of cyclists in NYC? The guys that aren't making those videos for "cheap thrills" have done wonders for the image of cyclists everywhere.

And why aren't you a moderator?
:beer: :roflmao:

hippo in a denali.

Simply classic, but I agree with you totally on the laws thing. It boils down to me surviving and doing what I need to do to live and see tomorrow.

You were sounding pretty interesting until you mentioned the wallet thing. :eek:


Her wallets just empty 'cause she spends it all on bikes and booze.

Well, that went away pretty quick-like.

Well, that went away pretty quick-like.

Indeed. Looks like you could use a review of the user guidelines. You don't have to like me, but you have to respect Joe's rules.

You really should have stopped, and let him know that you are a rational and sensible person, who happens to be on a bike. For all you know, he may think you're one of those ss/fixie guys getting cheap thrills dodging cars. Best to stop, open your wallet, and show him a picture of your wife and kids, then remind him that he's not the only one on the damn road.

Putting aside the presumption that fixed gear riders are irresponsible, and unlikely to reproduce, I think it's asking a lot of someone who nearly got killed by an oblivious driver to stop and try and make nice like Mr. Rogers. Even if you CAN put aside your anger long enough to do it it's not neccessarily advisable.

You never know who you might be talking to. Lots of car drivers are stressed out and agressive. They see a bike they didn't know existed a moment ago whiz by an inch off their inside fender, they are likely to be angry instead of concerned, and yes some may even be violent towards the cyclist. Pulling out your wallet to show them pictures of your grandkids might not persuade them not to bludgeon you with the nearest blunt object.

'fixie guys' are rational, sensible people too...

sometimes with the occasional family as well

+1. I've got the pictures in my wallet to prove it, also.

Putting aside the presumption that fixed gear riders are irresponsible, and unlikely to reproduce, I think it's asking a lot of someone who nearly got killed by an oblivious driver to stop and try and make nice like Mr. Rogers. Even if you CAN put aside your anger long enough to do it it's not neccessarily advisable.

You never know who you might be talking to. Lots of car drivers are stressed out and agressive. They see a bike they didn't know existed a moment ago whiz by an inch off their inside fender, they are likely to be angry instead of concerned, and yes some may even be violent towards the cyclist. Pulling out your wallet to show them pictures of your grandkids might not persuade them not to bludgeon you with the nearest blunt object.

Not my presumption, so let's get that out of the way. I was merely making a suggestion about educating a motorist that was oblivious to a cyclist. If you want to be critical of that advice, you are more than welcome to do so, as it's only fair. I can have my opinion, and you can have yours. But it's not my fault that some members here have a huge chip on their collective shoulders. Perhaps we need a "Trackies" forum to separate the wheat from the chaff?

This thread will only end up unanimous satisfaction.



Baiskali, good to hear your ok. Almost the worst part can be thinking about the difference 4-6 inches could have made in that whole life/limb bit.


re: SS/FG, the bikes are still just tools, like all machines. I've seen equal amounts of folks do habitually dumb **** on comfort bikes, road bikes, bmx bikes (who only have a decade+ on the FG crowd as far as videos go), recumbent trikes (har), to say nothing of actual cars (see OP). We may be the most visible and most recent, and a lot of the punk rock overlap certainly doesn't help, but I can say that most of the FG riders I know spend pretty much every second on their machine near hyper-alert. Which, while we're speaking in generalizations, does FAR more for one's and others' safety than any helmet ever will. Even the physics of it--I can pretty much guarantee a semi-skilled fixed rider with a front brake can stop faster in wet conditions than most any road cyclist. We essentially have ABS, 100% of the time.


I mean, think about it. We have the oppurtunity to raise a LOT of kids with incredible spin and a second-nature of watching and planning much further ahead than any other group of cyclists I'm aware of. Sure a lot of them are rebellious, but guess what? Most of us are early 20s. It happens, we'll grow out of it.


Curious, do most road bikers see FG riders like this, irresponsible, reckless, etc?

i don't know, expatriate...

your fabulously informed insight into SS/FG riders in NYC (while the OP lives in MA) and the way that our antics affect the psyche of motorists has what to do with what?

had you spent 15 minutes riding around NYC, you'd quickly notice that roadies trecking to central park in traffic on their custom carbon de rosa kings, chinese food delivery guys on duct-taped mountain bikes, kids on BMXs and SS/FG riders all ride in pretty similar fashions. in fact... add moms with carrier seats to that list.

people in NYC ride the way we do for a number of reasons. we ride fast to keep pace with traffic. we roll through lights to increase our visibility on the road by removing cars from the equation. we ride outside of bike lanes and in the center lanes of traffic because bike lanes are riddled with idling cars, potholes and doors that unexpectedly open while outermost lanes are occupied by drivers who can't decide where or when they want to turn. we dodge cars because there are few other digestible options. i've seen videos of roadies taking far riskier chances in NYC than SS/FG riders.

while your ignorance is entertaining and gives us something to post about until it bores us, it's still ignorance. it also had little to do with the OP's post which is why it's so easy for us to see as you throwing down some sort of holier than thou, self-righteous gauntlet.

+1. I've got the pictures in my wallet to prove it, also.

I had them same pics in my wallet when I bought it! :D

But it's not my fault that some members here have a huge chip on their collective shoulders.

How come I always get carried around on people's shoulders? Am I some kind of hero? :rolleyes:

I wonder if there's any relationship between such incidents & the lack of enforcement of traffic laws. In my town the cops are almost never seen on the streets, which may have something to with the fact that i've had more close calls here in one year than i had in 30 years riding in Connecticut (& Conn. is pretty bad).


There is of course no use here of the video cameras used in some countries to nail carborne criminals. Not even 4 way stops at bad intersections, & no speed bumps.

Why should drivers care if there are virtually no consequences for bad driving? Should we be lobbying for more enforcement & stiffer penalties against reckless drivers?

i don't know, expatriate...

your fabulously informed insight into SS/FG riders in NYC (while the OP lives in MA) and the way that our antics affect the psyche of motorists has what to do with what?

had you spent 15 minutes riding around NYC, you'd quickly notice that roadies trecking to central park in traffic on their custom carbon de rosa kings, chinese food delivery guys on duct-taped mountain bikes, kids on BMXs and SS/FG riders all ride in pretty similar fashions. in fact... add moms with carrier seats to that list.

people in NYC ride the way we do for a number of reasons. we ride fast to keep pace with traffic. we roll through lights to increase our visibility on the road by removing cars from the equation. we ride outside of bike lanes and in the center lanes of traffic because bike lanes are riddled with idling cars, potholes and doors that unexpectedly open while outermost lanes are occupied by drivers who can't decide where or when they want to turn. we dodge cars because there are few other digestible options. i've seen videos of roadies taking far riskier chances in NYC than SS/FG riders.

while your ignorance is entertaining and gives us something to post about until it bores us, it's still ignorance. it also had little to do with the OP's post which is why it's so easy for us to see as you throwing down some sort of holier than thou, self-righteous gauntlet.

I find your use of the word "Ignorance" to be highly ironic. Thank you for such wonderful insight.

I mean, think about it. We have the oppurtunity to raise a LOT of kids with incredible spin and a second-nature of watching and planning much further ahead than any other group of cyclists I'm aware of. Sure a lot of them are rebellious, but guess what? Most of us are early 20s. It happens, we'll grow out of it.


Curious, do most road bikers see FG riders like this, irresponsible, reckless, etc?

Curious, do you think some of us have been cycling all these years without having basic survival skills like planning for Murphy?

I think you all take the razzing too darn serious...every group gets dissed by the others, it's part of BF, but in the end we are all cyclists. Fixie & SS riders are not the only ones who catch it about their stereotypes - all roadies are arrogant poseurs, all commuters are car-free counter-culture types or DUI convicts, all BMXers are 10 yrs old with no sense and no fear, all 'bent riders are old wussies with roids, and all MTBers are just plain strange. Lighten up, have fun and remember, some of us didn't become OLD cyclists by not knowing how to ride and by not having a sense of humor - especially about ourselves. :)

I find your use of the word "Ignorance" to be highly ironic. Thank you for such wonderful insight.

it's ignorant to assume that SS/FG riders are the only ones riding in the manner i've described--particularly since i explain in the preceeding paragraph that it's simply not the case.

if you find that ironic, that ignorance runs deeper than i'd previously suspected.

Expat, I think its a fair question. Do you have any experience watching people on bikes in NYC, such that you would label FG riders significantly more reckless than any other group?

Since that really is the key factor for whether "ignorant" is an accurate term or not.