Road Cycling - Motobecane Immortal Force

Is there anyone out there that has an Immortal Force by Motobecane that can give a full review?? I love the way this bike looks, but I want to see if the ride is as nice as the looks? :)

Is there anyone out there that has an Immortal Force by Motobecane that can give a full review?? I love the way this bike looks, but I want to see if the ride is as nice as the looks? :)

Phoenix is a city with a Cycle Spectrum store. They are part of the BikesDirect conglomeration that puts the Motobecane name on bikes they import from Asia. So, you can go to your local Cycle Spectrum and "test drive" a Motobecane. If you buy from Cycle Spectrum instead of BikesDirect, you will be able to insist that your bike is correctly assembled and fitted before you accept delivery.

There is another thread on "Road Cycling" started by someone who was unhappy with a bike purchased "mail order" from BikesDirect. You should read his posts carefully before buying by mail order..a company that does not answer the phone, and picks and choses which e-mails to respond to is not the best place to buy a bike.

Thanks for the info. I have already been to the bikesdirect store here in Phoenix. This bike looks very nice, and from a parking lot test, feels very nice. I would like to hear a little bit from someone that has actually beaten the bike up a little. I am interested in stiffness, climbing, ride, etc????? Any help? I saw a thread on here by a guy named bayareawheeler, he posted some nice pictures of his new Immortal Force that struck a lot of interest, but I can not find a review for this bike? :)

HELP Please, I am really interested in buying a Immortal Force?? Anybody????? Please Help????? Have any of you seen a review for this bike at another web site?

roadbikereview.com and do a search here. i recall someone picking up the white version. later.

I've never seen the Motobecane in person, but the photos look very similar to bargain carbon bikes from Pedal Force and Supergo. Both of those have been getting good reviews (for the price).

I've never seen the Motobecane in person, but the photos look very similar to bargain carbon bikes from Pedal Force and Supergo. Both of those have been getting good reviews (for the price).


It is completely different from the Pedal Force or Supergo bikes. In fact, if you weren't blind you could see a massive difference in terms of geometry and architecture.
These Immortal Forces are Garneau frames.
They are supposed to be pretty nice bikes.

Tekhna, do you know anything else about this bike? I did ride the supergo carbon bike last year, but was not impressed while climbing a tiny hill. The bottom bracket has a lot of flex. The Motobecane had a large amount of carbon re-enforcing in the bottom bracket area. It seem to have a very very stiff ride, anyways it was just a parking lot ride (can not tell much from that.) I liked the bike, but I want to learn more!

It is a Garneau. Unfortunately I don't think a lot of people have experience with either....

i know there has been ton of speculation that the frame is a garneau..but other than "they look exactly alike, and both are made in Taiwan" what are the facts behind this stated "fact"?

Betcha anything if you look up the frame specs and geometry they're identical....

Ok.. still total speculation.. lots of bikes out there with identical geometry... correlation does not prove causation, this is the same disservice done by those who claim PF bikes are the same as Litespeeds, or whatever. I know it is conventional wisdom that the Motobecane Team SL’s are the same frame as the Fuji SL,, it isn’t. I bought a MB from bikesdirect, stripped it down for parts and compared the frame to a Fuji frame at my LBS, the fit and finish on the Fuji were far superior, especially the welds. I just think it is pure speculation that the Immortal force is a Garneau, and to make the statement that it “is a Garneau” does a disservice to someone who is getting ready to drop a large chunk of cash. I know that the “it is a Fuji” argument contributed significantly to my buying the MB SL, and while in the end the components were worth the price of the bike, I would not repeat the process again.

They are pretty dam close!!! The Garneau 6.1 is almost a dead ringer for the Immortal force. Wow what a price difference too! Oh well I will keep looking for a review! Thanks :D

Ok.. still total speculation.. lots of bikes out there with identical geometry... correlation does not prove causation, this is the same disservice done by those who claim PF bikes are the same as Litespeeds, or whatever. I know it is conventional wisdom that the Motobecane Team SL’s are the same frame as the Fuji SL,, it isn’t. I bought a MB from bikesdirect, stripped it down for parts and compared the frame to a Fuji frame at my LBS, the fit and finish on the Fuji were far superior, especially the welds. I just think it is pure speculation that the Immortal force is a Garneau, and to make the statement that it “is a Garneau” does a disservice to someone who is getting ready to drop a large chunk of cash. I know that the “it is a Fuji” argument contributed significantly to my buying the MB SL, and while in the end the components were worth the price of the bike, I would not repeat the process again.

I think you misunderstand. Garneau doesn't make frames any more than bikesdirect.com does. They go to Taiwan and buy a frame and put their paint and decals on it. Same is true of Litespeed. Litespeed makes titanium frames, not CF. When they want CF they go to Taiwan and buy a frame. I think you're having a problem with the fact that the bike "manufacturer" doesn't manufacture the frame (or the bike for that matter.) In my opinion the decals on the frame have virtually no meaning any longer. Even $4000 Colnago frames are made in Taiwan. Don't let it hang you up. They're just bike frames and they do the job regardless of whose name is on the down tube. I have a hard time understanding the passion with which people defend bike brands in this day and age.

Ok.. still total speculation.. lots of bikes out there with identical geometry... correlation does not prove causation, this is the same disservice done by those who claim PF bikes are the same as Litespeeds, or whatever. I know it is conventional wisdom that the Motobecane Team SL’s are the same frame as the Fuji SL,, it isn’t. I bought a MB from bikesdirect, stripped it down for parts and compared the frame to a Fuji frame at my LBS, the fit and finish on the Fuji were far superior, especially the welds. I just think it is pure speculation that the Immortal force is a Garneau, and to make the statement that it “is a Garneau” does a disservice to someone who is getting ready to drop a large chunk of cash. I know that the “it is a Fuji” argument contributed significantly to my buying the MB SL, and while in the end the components were worth the price of the bike, I would not repeat the process again.

My Le Champ SL had the same frame geometry, weight, and even components as the Fuji Team SL. It even had the same "XFusion" label on the seat stays with the same graphics. I've heard several people mention that Fuji and the Moto frames come out of the same factory and are actually both made by Kinesis.

now as far as the Ganeau's... who knows for sure but they're a spot on ringer for each other. I wouldn't be suprised if they both come from the same sub-contractor at some point...

I think you misunderstand. Garneau doesn't make frames any more than bikesdirect.com does. They go to Taiwan and buy a frame and put their paint and decals on it. Same is true of Litespeed. Litespeed makes titanium frames, not CF. When they want CF they go to Taiwan and buy a frame. I think you're having a problem with the fact that the bike "manufacturer" doesn't manufacture the frame (or the bike for that matter.) In my opinion the decals on the frame have virtually no meaning any longer. Even $4000 Colnago frames are made in Taiwan. Don't let it hang you up. They're just bike frames and they do the job regardless of whose name is on the down tube. I have a hard time understanding the passion with which people defend bike brands in this day and age.

Yes I am a complete moron and I thought that Mr. Litespeed was slaving away in his garage hand laying carbon fiber; I know exactly how outsourcing works... I just see no substantive proof that any Moto is an exact copy of any higher priced frame, and remember I own one. Even if the Moto IF and Garneau are made in the exact same factory, and look exactly the same, I would still question if they were made with the same CF, the same layers or the same epoxy. The Immortal Force may be a great bike,, stiff as a 2x4 on climbs and as soft as the feathers on a ducks ass on rough roads, but to buy a bike because it "looks just like a Garneau" or "I heard they came out of the same factory" is simply irresponsible. Quite honestly the OP has a more valid opinion on this than any of us long time Moto posters because apparently he has ridden an IF in Phoenix. Of course Im the guy who buys Advil instead of vons ibuprophen. You are suggesting someone spend 2k on a bike because, if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, well it must be a duck. I believe that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it might just be an immitation duck built of lower quality bits that will break under my large ass and send me sprawling across the pavement.. of course the next question would be,,why was he riding that duck.

Not trying to convince you to go one way or the other, but try to think from the manufacturer's prespective. Once you've set up everything to produce a certain carbon fiber bike, you want to produce any many same ones as possible to reduce your cost using the economy of scale. You don't have to do anything different other than the paint job.

Wow, this just like the other thread. I am engineer in semi-conductor, and I know about out sourcing. I have to agree with the statement form mayukawa, it is just simple econ. I really like the bike, and I for one will not buy a bike just for the name. There is several bikes out there that are dead ringers. The most important things are to make sure the bike is safe, make sure the bike fits your type of riding, and make sure that you ride it, other than that we buy off opinions and instincts. That is what I was looking for when I posted. Here is a little known fact about a Famous watch manufacture. "Rolex" was having troubles with a company in china that was making knock offs of there watches, They were crafted so well that Rolex bought there plant and there people to build watches for Rolex! True no bull! My Ex-wife used to work for them! PS if you would have bought a watch from the china company before it was bought by Rolex you would have only paid $250 to $300 dollars for the same watch that is now going to cost several thousands. If you are interested here is a link to almost the same discussion .

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=49722

My Fuji team is indeed made by Kinesis with Easton Taperwall tubing. For what its worth, it says made in the USA on it also.

Yes, five or ten different bike brands could buy a frame made in the same factory. That does not mean the frames are "identical". Each company may have negotiated different prices, required different quality standards, and have different standards for testing prior to delivery to customers.

For example, Easton requires that each and every carbon handlebar with the Easton name be individually tested to stress levels far beyond those seen in everyday cycling. Another company might not be quite so picky, especially if they could obtain handlebars for a substantial discount.

I was talking with a guy whose wife buys clothing for one of America's largest sporting goods chains. She will "spec" a shirt to have a certain grade and weight of cotton. Specify the type of thread to be used in seams and the number of stitches per inch. And, the suppliers will send her "proto-types" that match the specifications precisely.

The problem: after the chain begins receiving the shirts in lots of ten thousand, customer complaints start coming in. Sleeves coming loose. Excessive shrinkage. She inspects the returned shirts...surprise, surprise, they don't meet "spec" for materials or workmanship.

Her chain does not charge the sort of prices that the "fancy" stores do, so they can not inspect each and every shirt that arrives in the warehouse. They rely on their customers to find the defects, and to return the shirts that have problems.

Yet, that SAME factory might very well be turning out "perfect" shirts for Saks 5th Avenue, or another customer that has the ability to carefully monitor the quality of each shirt before it is put on sale. Their "proto-types" proved they have the ability to meet spec when they want to...

If I were buying a ten dollar shirt, I'd be willing to take a risk of it being junk, and having to get a refund. But, if I were going to risk both $1,000 and MY LIFE on a carbon frame bike, I'd rather buy a Trek and take advantage of their quality control systems before the sale, and their warranty support after the sale. Sure, any frame from any company might fail...but I want to get the odds stacked in my favor.

Yes, five or ten different bike brands could buy a frame made in the same factory. That does not mean the frames are "identical". Each company may have negotiated different prices, required different quality standards, and have different standards for testing prior to delivery to customers.

For example, Easton requires that each and every carbon handlebar with the Easton name be individually tested to stress levels far beyond those seen in everyday cycling. Another company might not be quite so picky, especially if they could obtain handlebars for a substantial discount.

I was talking with a guy whose wife buys clothing for one of America's largest sporting goods chains. She will "spec" a shirt to have a certain grade and weight of cotton. Specify the type of thread to be used in seams and the number of stitches per inch. And, the suppliers will send her "proto-types" that match the specifications precisely.

The problem: after the chain begins receiving the shirts in lots of ten thousand, customer complaints start coming in. Sleeves coming loose. Excessive shrinkage. She inspects the returned shirts...surprise, surprise, they don't meet "spec" for materials or workmanship.

Her chain does not charge the sort of prices that the "fancy" stores do, so they can not inspect each and every shirt that arrives in the warehouse. They rely on their customers to find the defects, and to return the shirts that have problems.

Yet, that SAME factory might very well be turning out "perfect" shirts for Saks 5th Avenue, or another customer that has the ability to carefully monitor the quality of each shirt before it is put on sale. Their "proto-types" proved they have the ability to meet spec when they want to...

If I were buying a ten dollar shirt, I'd be willing to take a risk of it being junk, and having to get a refund. But, if I were going to risk both $1,000 and MY LIFE on a carbon frame bike, I'd rather buy a Trek and take advantage of their quality control systems before the sale, and their warranty support after the sale. Sure, any frame from any company might fail...but I want to get the odds stacked in my favor.

My god you get tiresome.

Guys. Bike frames are all like, for the most part regardless of brand or price. sure, there are minor differences in geometry and, hence, handling but they are minor. Bike manufacturers make frames to suit the largest segment of buyers (whatever that may be) and the results work out to be pretty similar. They will all serve as competent frames. If you can prove to me that a $4000 Colnago frame does a more competent job of doing its job than a host of other frames, I'll take back everything I've said. I don't think I'll have to.

I don't guess that two frames are alike. I put them side by and side and see for myself. There aren't any guesses. We all know the great majority of the price of a Colnago is the name on the downtube. Colnago doesn't know anything the rest of the industry doesn't know. They don't have some secret knowledge unavailable to the rest of the world. They have a successful brand and you need to pay a lot to wear it on your down tube.

So what difference does it make that the Fuji Team SL and the Moto Le Champion frame are the same (and they are?) None. It just means that Fuji has more overhead than bikesdirect.com and has to get higher prices. Since they have a successful brand they can get higher prices and it all works for them. It even allows them to have a special relationship with bikesdirect.com so that the latter company can use last year's frames for a bargain price and allow Fuji to make a few bucks on obselete designs (or paint jobs.)

But that doesn't make the frames better or worse or even different. It makes the marketing better and different. Obviously the marketing works on some members of the forum.

They are pretty dam close!!! The Garneau 6.1 is almost a dead ringer for the Immortal force. Wow what a price difference too! Oh well I will keep looking for a review! Thanks :D

Here's my Garneau... it's the same frame as the Moto. LG rep figured the frame was made by Ideal in Taiwan.

http://www.foosoftware.com/photo/bike/LG6.1_day2.jpg

I'll give you a mini review of the frame only:

Geometry is "euro". Relaxed angles and long top tube. That's great since I'm a bit of a weird fit (short legs, long torso).

It's a great handling bike. The first real ride after I built it was a 5200 ft climb in WA state. Before the decent I told my riding partner that I was going to take it easy since I wasn't familiar with the bike's handling. Well after three corners I was passing other riders inside, outside, anyside at 50+ km/h. I think I maxed 70 km/h and the bike was stable.

From the bikesdirect site it looks like a different fork than my bike's full carbon fork so some of my observations might not compare perfectly.

Ride quality is good... it's quite stiff laterally yet comfortable on rough roads.

The bad: It's heavy (frame:1440g). Head tube, seat cluster and BB are aluminum units wrapped into the CF structure. The BB has a lot of material... it's really stiff but heavy. Build quality was a bit dodgy on my first frame... seat tube looked like it was reamed with a rusty screwdriver and eventually the seat post pinch section delaminated. LG shipped me a new frame and that one was perfect.

So... it's not a super-exotic piece of perfection but it's not crap either. Why did I choose it? LG is my club team sponsor and the price was right! I'm happy enough with the frame that I see no reason to upgrade for 2006 and I'll probably race it for one more season.

...These Immortal Forces are Garneau frames...

Did you:

a. Confirm your assertation that these are absolutely identical frames with a Garneau executive?

or

b. Just engage in what engineers sometimes call "W.A.G. analysis"?

Did you:

a. Confirm your assertation that these are absolutely identical frames with a Garneau executive?

or

b. Just engage in what engineers sometimes call "W.A.G. analysis"?

Same bike dude.

Here is a little known fact about a Famous watch manufacture. "Rolex" was having troubles with a company in china that was making knock offs of there watches, They were crafted so well that Rolex bought there plant and there people to build watches for Rolex! True no bull! My Ex-wife used to work for them! PS if you would have bought a watch from the china company before it was bought by Rolex you would have only paid $250 to $300 dollars for the same watch that is now going to cost several thousands.


This is pure BS. Go make this statement on a watch discussion forum like timezone.com and see what kind of response you get.

I believe that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it might just be an immitation duck built of lower quality bits that will break under my large ass and send me sprawling across the pavement.. of course the next question would be,,why was he riding that duck.

Just want to throw out something I was thinking about last night. To me it sounds like you (and now Alan) are saying essentially that by purchasing and riding a Motobecane you are risking your life by buying a potentially dangerous product. To my mind, isn't that borderline liabel/slander? You might want to ease up a little.

As far as I know there have been no defects with any Motobecane product that has caused injury.
The only potential defect was the American Classic wheel issue that had the recall. That affected several manufacturers, not just Motobecane. To their credit, Motobecane was pro-active in notifying their customers about the recall, and fixed their remaining bikes in inventory before shipping them out.

You guys are implying that Motobecane is selling an inferior product that is hazardous because of how it was produced, but there is zero evidence supporting this and some to the contrary actually. I'm trying to be as objective as possible here. I like my Moto but I'm not going to say its right for everyone. Might want to tone it down a little....

i've got my own little conspiracy theory about the motobecane frame thing (be it the Fuji-like SL or the Garneau-like Immortal Force or any other...): bikesdirect buys factory 'seconds' frames that did not pass muster with fuji and puts the motobecane decal on them.... these frames (so goes the conspiracy theory) are not fatally flawed, but they have some minor defect or cosmetic blemish that fuji won't accept...

and speaking of the immortal force, WHERE IS BAYAREAWHEELER'S RIDE REPORT???

Here's my Garneau... it's the same frame as the Moto. LG rep figured the frame was made by Ideal in Taiwan.

http://www.foosoftware.com/photo/bike/LG6.1_day2.jpg

I'll give you a mini review of the frame only:

Geometry is "euro". Relaxed angles and long top tube. That's great since I'm a bit of a weird fit (short legs, long torso).

It's a great handling bike. The first real ride after I built it was a 5200 ft climb in WA state. Before the decent I told my riding partner that I was going to take it easy since I wasn't familiar with the bike's handling. Well after three corners I was passing other riders inside, outside, anyside at 50+ km/h. I think I maxed 70 km/h and the bike was stable.

From the bikesdirect site it looks like a different fork than my bike's full carbon fork so some of my observations might not compare perfectly.

Ride quality is good... it's quite stiff laterally yet comfortable on rough roads.

The bad: It's heavy (frame:1440g). Head tube, seat cluster and BB are aluminum units wrapped into the CF structure. The BB has a lot of material... it's really stiff but heavy. Build quality was a bit dodgy on my first frame... seat tube looked like it was reamed with a rusty screwdriver and eventually the seat post pinch section delaminated. LG shipped me a new frame and that one was perfect.

So... it's not a super-exotic piece of perfection but it's not crap either. Why did I choose it? LG is my club team sponsor and the price was right! I'm happy enough with the frame that I see no reason to upgrade for 2006 and I'll probably race it for one more season.

Excellent. A good objective review based on experience and not opinions. The bike looks super and sounds like it performs with excellence. There is no reason on earth to apologize for it. I wish all the posts in the forum were as high in quality as yours.

Did you:

a. Confirm your assertation that these are absolutely identical frames with a Garneau executive?

or

b. Just engage in what engineers sometimes call "W.A.G. analysis"?

Out of curiosity, how would a Garneau executive know where bikesdirect buys their frames?

Excellent. A good objective review based on experience and not opinions. The bike looks super and sounds like it performs with excellence. There is no reason on earth to apologize for it. I wish all the posts in the forum were as high in quality as yours.

Ditto

i've got my own little conspiracy theory about the motobecane frame thing (be it the Fuji-like SL or the Garneau-like Immortal Force or any other...): bikesdirect buys factory 'seconds' frames that did not pass muster with fuji and puts the motobecane decal on them.... these frames (so goes the conspiracy theory) are not fatally flawed, but they have some minor defect or cosmetic blemish that fuji won't accept......
and here's some evidence to support and contradict the theory:

1. my moto le champ sl came out of the box with a ding on the head tube that would not have occurred in shipping, and the bb shell needed some more machining...

2. my moto le champ team came out of the box in perfect condition....

and if i recall enough history accurately, lee harvey oswald would have been the only assassin of a major world political leader who DENIED doing it...

btw - its nice to know the bike is stiff. I suspected as much because of the extra material at the bb and seat post cluster, but nice to have it confirmed. Too bad about the weight though. My opinion on a weight weenie bike is that its best to start with a light frame. Oh well - weight and stiffness and strength do always seem to be at odds with each other. Better to have a stiff/strong ride - besides, I think the bikesdirect bike comes in at just over 16 pounds w/o pedals. That's not too bad. ;)

...Oh well - weight and stiffness and strength do always seem to be at odds with each other. Better to have a stiff/strong ride - besides, I think the bikesdirect bike comes in at just over 16 pounds w/o pedals. That's not too bad. ;)
sounds like someone is building a case for buying a new bike... ;)

sounds like someone is building a case for buying a new bike... ;)

Stop it!

I have a $1500 tax return coming soon and its already tempting enough!

ravenmore what bikes are you looking at?

F1_fan, thanks for the review. I have heard from a few forums that these frames are indeed the same. Your bike looks awesome, and your review was exactly what I was looking for! I am a bit bigger than the average rider, so my main concern is stiffness in the bottom bracket area, and the stiffness in the back triangle area. It sounds like you are pretty happy with the bike other than the weight; is that a true statement?

ravenmore what bikes are you looking at?

Oh I'm looking at a few different things actually. Right now I'm most likely leaning towards buying a nice set of wheels for my existing Le Champ. Most likely candidate are some Topolino's, although I'm also considering Rolf Elans, Rolf Vigors, and the American Classic 420's. If I go that route I'll have some money left over to get a new lighter bottom bracket, and carbon seatpost. Of course I could go crazy and spend it all on either the Easton Tempest II Carbon's or the Topo Carbon tubbies. Both wheelsets are about $1500. (someone stop me before I do that please.....) ;)

IF I buy a new bike I might consider the Immortal Force. I've been drooling over that bike for months now. Just a really sharp looking bike.

Of course another thought is a mountain bike...... uuuugh, so many choices, so finite $$$. ;)

fyi I think it was F1_fan who did the Garneau review....

I believe that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it might just be an immitation duck built of lower quality bits that will break under my large ass and send me sprawling across the pavement.. of course the next question would be,,why was he riding that duck.

So what is it with you and ducks? That's quite a fetish :D

It sounds like you are pretty happy with the bike other than the weight; is that a true statement?

Yes. If I didn't like it, I'd sell it and get a new bike on this year's team deal... that's not going to happen :)

As far as the weight... I'm just being picky because I know I'm giving up 3/4 lb in the frame compared to other CF frames. That said, there's very little flex when sprinting up hills so IMO, that 3/4 lb is in the right places. The bike is 19 lb as pictured (that's ready to ride). It would be 18 lbs with lighter wheels (I've got Shimano 550 on there now for training).

Sorry you are right. It was f1_fan!

Hi. I have an Immortal Force. 56c in black. It came as promised and I assembled it myself. The wheels were true and the only thing amiss was that they did not provide enough carbon spacers to adjust the headset appropriately. I emailed them and though they claimed I "must be doing something wrong" (which ticked me a little since not having enough spacers is something any idiot could figure out) they did send me five black aluminum spacers and threw in a set of tire levers. Nice touch. The paint seems fine and the bike came with black handlebar tape not red as shown but they included redtape but I didn't feel like retaping.

Before I talk about the bike let me give you some perspective on my ride. I am 52 years old and have been riding the same bike since 1970. It is a Falcon, steel Reynolds 531 that has had some mods over the years: campy velox replaced with nouvo record in the back and veloce in the front. Brooks b-17 replaced with specialized cut-out seat (no more numb nuts), sew ups replaced with clinchers and mavics and campy hubs and center weinnemans repalced with side dia-compes, campy cotterless crank and a six hub in the back. Thirty-five years on the same clunker and I loved it. Me and the bike were one. Every ride made me feel 16 again. I even had it repainted by Toby of HotTubes in Worcester Mass (he did a nice job and brazed on cable guides and brake guides). I thought I would ride it for the rest of my life. Alas, the center tube began to separate where it connects to the bottom bracket. So I broke down and got intrigued by Bikes Direct site. Yes. the immortal force deal sounded great and the geometry seemed (more or less) like my Falcon. So I said what the hell. I will probably get the Falcon frame fixed but not sure I will really want to ride it again. Once bitten.....

As it is winter here in the east I have not had too many serious rides but the rides I have had have been great (did get a flat tire after only 50 miles of riding so I thought maybe the inner tubes were "old" but who knows). I can't comment about how stiff or not stiff it is. I am not a racer or a climber. I do know that I am giddy at how light the bike is (remember what I had been riding). The road feel is not like steel and a lot more comfortable and it seems a little dull but again I haven't spent alot of time on it and haven't had a whole day on the bike. I have also not pushed it because I have vowed to never lay it down and am being conservative as I learn to ride it (I still reach for the down tube shifters every once and awhile). The brakes and all hardware all work great. The free pedals they provided do not suit me and I have switched over to look (easier to get in and out of and btw if anyone wants to make me an offer on unused pedals they provided -vp with two bolt cleats - let me know - very cheap plus shipping-make an offer).

Net, they provided exactly what they said in the ad. If I had it all to do over, I probably would have preferred a test drive first. But I couldn't find an equally equipped bike in my area for less that 2800 beans plus tax so up to 3000 beans. The immortal force for 1800 all in seemed worth the risk.

So we'll see what spring brings and maybe i'll post again then. I only started reading this forum after i rode the bike. If Ii had read all the direct web to consumer bashing before I probably would not have bought it. But let's get real on economics. Retailers like to get at least 50 points on a product. Manufacturers who maintain a sales force and a distribution system have to make at least 20 points. God bless America and its great someone is going direct. Read Thomas Freidman, the world really is flat. Bicyclists should appreciate that. Ha Ha.

Keep the shiny side up.

Hi. I have an Immortal Force. 56c in black....
thanks for the report. glad it's working out for you. and i think their response to customer emails (when they choose to respond) is defensive by default - i had a similary annoying experience with a minor issue...

umm, do you by any chance have a digital camera? (hint-hint :D )

Yes, please take some pictures!!! black or white???? Would love to see it; they are sweet looking bikes no matter what the color is!

Yes, please take some pictures!!! black or white???? Would love to see it; they are sweet looking bikes no matter what the color is!

For the love of God man - please DON'T. :) I'm trying not to buy anymore bikes.....

For the love of God man - please DON'T. :) I'm trying not to buy anymore bikes.....
translation: 'I really want to buy that bike - please post pics to whet my appetite....'

Do you think a man who has ridden the same steel frame for 35 years has a digital camera?

Do you think a man who has ridden the same steel frame for 35 years has a digital camera?
hilarious! and even funnier since i was gonna make some wisecrack along those lines when i first asked if you had one!