Are the moderators keeping count of how many threads HH has hijacked? This one a classic. HH got his troll in early on this one. And then, like the prototypical troll, he whines about personal attacks. HH's behavior is textbook.

And, again, the mods should probably come through this thread and aggressively delete all posts (including mine) that do not directly discuss the bike rally.The moderators can start with post #8 on page one by Helmet Head and while they're at it, they could warn HH about hijacking threads.

I've deleted most of my posts from this thread. I was unintentionally perpetuating a thread jack that several people created to complain about HH's response to a direct (but off-topic) question.

This thread is an example of how the anti-VC'ers regularly take threads off topic just so that they can take personal swipes at HH or at other people who advocate VC less strongly than HH. Those same people then have the nerve to blame VC (and HH in particular) for their own inability to stay on topic.

If you think part of a post by HH is off topic, don't respond to that part. Let it drop. If you think HH goes off topic too often, put him on your ignore list. If his ideas are as stupid as you say they are, you don't need to rebut them. The fact that you do respond means you think his ideas are persuasive enough to merit rebuttal.

So that I don't further perpetuate the thread jack, this is my last comment in this thread.

Daily commute just went and deleted a lot of his 'defense of HH' posts that JRA and I just responded to, if it looks a little confusing....

I think a 'share the road' campaign implemented by Portland's city hall is far out and right on.

So that I don't further perpetuate the thread jack, this my last comment in this thread.
Good. Why not make it your last posting of your interpretations of what is permissable on any thread. Good Riddance, Mis-ter Chief Justice of Politeness to VC Dogmatists.

Right, sharing dosn't mean I get to take something from someone right when I want it, but when they are done with it.

Share the road means you get to use the road when I am done using it.



I don't mean to nit pick, but I think having the attitude that we are out there competing for space is starting out on the wrong foot.

Football players compete for space. Public right-of-way users only have the right to space that no one has claimed. In other words, my space is mine, until I give it up. Sure, once in a while you have two drivers trying to use the same currently unoccupied space, but, overall, that's a relatively rare situation, (e.g., much more common in parking lots with respect to parking spaces than out on the roadway).

Realizing this, and how it applies to cyclists the same as to any other road users, really, really helps in forming an attitude that makes cycling in traffic much more pleasant, as opposed to viewing it as a competition for space.

Get off it. If you don't like someones posts, put them on ignore or go to a different thread.
I understand exactly what HH was pointing out and it's pertinent to the subject.


The moderators can start with post #8 on page one by Helmet Head and while they're at it, they could warn HH about hijacking threads.

Yeah, that whole thing was my fault and I'm sorry about it, my apologies to Dogbait in particular. I guess I was wary to start a thread on it.


Anyway, as I said before, I'm glad the community here is proactive about cycling. I just wish they'd organize it on a weekend. I think more people would've gone.

Yeah, that whole things was my fault and I'm sorry about it, my apologies to Dogbait in particular. I guess I was wary to start a thread on it.
You don't need to apologize to anyone. I can understand your wariness to post on this Forum. The VC Attack Dogs of Thread Control will snap at any scrap, real or imagined, in order to steer every thread to their liking. Luckily for me, the VC Jack Donkeys brag about ignoring my spot-on retorts to their ignorant jive.

so what is it about Portland that they can pull it together in this way? What is it that they're doing there that we could model after in other parts of the country? I'd like to think Boston could respond in this way but I'm having difficulty imagining it could happen right now. How did the cycling community of Portland get to the point where the city officials are so willing to mediate like this?

Yeah, that whole thing was my fault and I'm sorry about it, my apologies to Dogbait in particular. I guess I was wary to start a thread on it.


Anyway, as I said before, I'm glad the community here is proactive about cycling. I just wish they'd organize it on a weekend. I think more people would've gone.

Nothing was your fault - you had a question. Please don't start thinking 'should I post this?', say what you want, when you want, where you want. If anyone should apologize it is me, since my funning with you set off the thing.

As far as Portland, I thought what Randy did was pretty dumb, but I bet even he never envisioned that the result would be this remarkable thing that is happening. ;)

so what is it about Portland that they can pull it together in this way? What is it that they're doing there that we could model after in other parts of the country? I'd like to think Boston could respond in this way but I'm having difficulty imagining it could happen right now. How did the cycling community of Portland get to the point where the city officials are so willing to mediate like this?

What is it about Portland? It's the people. People who have been advocating for better cycling facitilies and regulations at least since 1977, when I moved there, and probably before. People who are tenacious in their dealings with city officials, who don't back down when the answers they get don't satisfy the question asked. People who are content, for the time being, with small victories because they realize that is what big victories are made of.

Since the '70's, there have been city administrations from the left, right and progressive wings. Some were pro-bike and some were not but they all responded to the squeaky wheels of bike advocates. Some did so as fellow believers and others just to make the noise go away. The result is what Portland has today.... not yet perfect but headed in that direction.

When allies run for election to local office, support them with your time and treasure. If they get elected, remind them how it happened. Remind them whenever you need their help and be willing to not always get it.

Keep your message in front of the larger citizenry by using the local media. Try to present yourselves as reasonable people only interested in having your share of the public pie and no more. Realize that non-biking folk will judge all cyclists by the impression you leave with them and act accordingly.

Any other city can do this by using the same tactics. Start small. As the advocacy group grows, get bigger.... take on larger projects. Work to secure a source of funds and make the politicians spend those funds wisely on bike projects. A huge source of bike funding in Oregon got it's start in 1971 because a state legislator wanted his daughter to have a safe way to ride her bike to school.

Be diligent. Be stubborn. Be tireless. Be respectfully noisy. When the phone stops ringing at city hall, you start losing ground.

Dogbait

I've never felt like there was a problem with the cars in my commuting area. I respect the motorists and I find that they give me respect in return.

Speaking strictly of Portland, I wonder if the general animus (on both sides) has started a silent war which only a city-wide "Share the road" campaign can solve?

HH, you do realize, I hope, that this is just my personal experience and in no way does it mean that most cyclists in Portland and the area feel that way.HH, you do realize, I hope, that this is just my personal experience and in no way does it mean that most cyclists in Portland and the area feel that way.
Just about anything is possible, peregrine.

However, your experience is consistent with what many, many cyclists whose primary riding position is also to the right report.

By "primary riding position is to the right" I'm referring to cyclists who tend to keep to the right side of the lane (or bike lane or shoulder) unless they have a good reason to move further left, as opposed to cyclists whose primary riding position is centerish, who tend to keep a centerish position (usually in the outside lane) unless they have a good reason to keep further to the right. There is a lot of overlap between the two groups, of course. The key difference is what happens during gaps in same-direction faster traffic. But those times are key, because that is when the cyclist is alone on the road and is not "covered" from cross-traffic by other same-direction traffic.

By "centerish position" I mean somewhere between the left and right tire tracks of the lane, inclusive.

Are the moderators keeping count of how many threads HH has hijacked? This one a classic. HH got his troll in early on this one. And then, like the prototypical troll, he whines about personal attacks. HH's behavior is textbook.
Discussions branch. Get over it. Better yet, put me on ignore.


And, again, the mods should probably come through this thread and aggressively delete all posts (including mine) that do not directly discuss the bike rally.
If we can't comment on each other's posts, what's the point of this forum?


The moderators can start with post #8 on page one by Helmet Head and while they're at it, they could warn HH about hijacking threads.
You and I have very different ideas about what constitutes hijacking a thread. Apparently, according to you, any posts that do not address the topic of the OP are hijacks. If so, the vast majority of most posts on this forum are "hijacks", which renders your interpretation pointless and useless.

Congratulations, you're on my ignore list.

Daily Commute... thank you.

All this doesn't make Helmet Head blabbering for over 800 words in one post about his "bike as lane threat" theory any the less obnoxious, uncalled for, and threadjack-ey.

I say again, Helmet Head, what a jerk.

This thread has nothing to do with lane position,

This thread was about a pro bike rally and 'share the road' campaign instituted by Portland city hall. All city fleet vehicles in Portland will now sport 'share the road' stickers.

Far out! I want Seattle to get 'share the road' stickers for their fleet vehicles!

It's a simple solution to one of the things we've talked about a lot: cyclist and motorist education. We should learn from the politicians- people tend to learn in sound bites. Certainly most everybody in Portland will have a little better idea of the rights of cyclists. It won't be perfect and will need to be supplemented with more information and responsible advocacy. They'll need to capitalize on the momentum of what they've created with this "share the road" campaign.

Hopefully, we can all order some of those stickers even if we live in other cities to express our solidarity with the cycling community of Portland.