Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - First Track bike

OKay so I got that Somec Track Frame...now someone just told me that if I put road cranks the bb shell will bust? Everyone who has a track bike...please give me the 411 on anything I need to know different in putting this girl together...I've put together a fixie already...what are the differences I should take note of.

are you kidding? jump the shark already with some downhill Blackspire cranks and apehanger bars.

are you kidding? jump the shark already with some downhill Blackspire cranks and apehanger bars.

Huh?? Hello? Track newbie here...in newbie talk please:)

ok, get some Sugino (RD,XT,75) track cranks, whatever you can afford, or some used track cranks.

i dont know what this bb thing is about, but that thing deserves some nice parts. why do you want to use road cranks?

ok, get some Sugino (RD,XT,75) track cranks, whatever you can afford, or some used track cranks.

about how much do those run?

i dont know what this bb thing is about, but that thing deserves some nice parts.

I'm not gonna go really spendy on it...I just want to get it build and rideable without going bankrupt....I'll upgrade later.

RD below 100, 75s above, XT somewhere between?

sugino 75's run 175. they go down from there.

what is the difference between a track crank and normal road cranks

BCD, chainline spacing, durability, style, cost, certification.

get the Sugino RDs... do it!

I'm not gonna go really spendy on it...I just want to get it build and rideable without going bankrupt....I'll upgrade later.

dude in the long run you will spend more money getting ****ty parts and having to replace them. go all out , but be mndful and in the end the slightly higher better performer will last longer and be better for you. and some minor debt liek that isnt bad. its better to be in debt worry free about your whip rather than close to debt and have something break on you and being way in debt.

XVX

I agree with lumen, you should just take your time and build with quality parts. Now that doesn't mean bling highend parts like phils or DA. You still have the conversion right? if that's still riding fine, then you should take your time and build it up right because the second you put cheap parts on it you'll be thinking of up grading and whatever the cheap parts cost will just be added expense ontop of the quality parts costs. A frame like that deserves decent parts and if you put sugino RDs on it, you might as well have gotten a NYCB frame.

I know it's hard to wait and you want to put it together rightaway but trust me, it's worth the wait so your first ride on the bike will be perfect.

Just the way I feel about these thing...

Also, BB shells on italian track frames are not designed to take the load that road frames are.

Think of it like this: On a road bike, the forces are being absorbed by the extra chainrings and stuff. On a track crank, there is extra material to absorb the extra load (which is why they have a bigger bolt pattern. Bigger pattern = more metal). This is why you need track cranks on a track frame.

Also, you should really take it to the track sometimes so the metal will get a chance to stretch. High speeds allows the metal and the joints to stretch.

If it's too much of a financial burden, you might just want to sell the frame. What size is it?

well I'll just get track cranks then and then just get velocity/formula hubs and dura ace track cog and lockring and it should be fine right?! No matter what I'm not going to build this bike up super costly...

Also, BB shells on italian track frames are not designed to take the load that road frames are.

Think of it like this: On a road bike, the forces are being absorbed by the extra chainrings and stuff. On a track crank, there is extra material to absorb the extra load (which is why they have a bigger bolt pattern. Bigger pattern = more metal). This is why you need track cranks on a track frame.

Also, you should really take it to the track sometimes so the metal will get a chance to stretch. High speeds allows the metal and the joints to stretch.

If it's too much of a financial burden, you might just want to sell the frame. What size is it?

the scientist in me cringes at this statement...I'm not sure what you're trying to say, exactly...but remember newton's laws. "extra material to absorb the extra load" wtf??? "high speeds allows the metal and the joints to stretch"" (double)wtf???

A stiffer crank (such as a track one) is going to transmit more force than a less stiff one (such as a non-DA road) to the bottom bracket. The more metal in the crank, the less it's going to flex and the more it's going to transmit force somewhere else (this is what we want, we want that force transmitted to the rear wheel through the chain.)

man you guys are like totally beating me into this "spend a ton on this bike..it deserves it"...wtf...it's a frame...it's a bike...it's a track bike...who cares if I don't buy all campy or italian stuff. I'm not going to buy super expensive stuff okay. I just need to know what will make this bike go without messing it up...that's all. A simple "no you can't use road cranks on a track bike because...etc..etc..etc" would have been fine. Jesus!

get some sugino 75s. i just got my set in the mail, complete with a 49t sugino chainring for $175. really good deal since the chainrings alone are around $45 and the cranks w/o ring sell for $175 through lots of retailers. they're not the cheapest cranks, but not the most expensive either. but they'll last you from frame to frame. put an 18t cog on the back and you'll have a nice gear ratio for flat and hilly terrain as well as 18 skid spots.

seaden - we're a bunch of bike nerds, what did you expect?

I say spend money on it cuz you've got a bike already from what i gather, and its fun to make something really nice. I took 4 months to collect and assemble my current bike, and i'm glad i did. also, nice parts resell well when you wanna swap them, and bad ones, well... dont. your bottom bracket will not explode to the best of my knowledge. i mean, its an axel, some cups, and some ball bearings... if you wanna build it up cheap take it to a bike co-op or used parts place and just build it up with whatever. Could probably get the whole thing running for 2-300 bucks. It won't be nice, but it'll roll.

the scientist in me cringes at this statement...I'm not sure what you're trying to say, exactly...but remember newton's laws.

I don't exactly remember this newton guy you're talking about. What does he have to do with bikes?

Listen man, I'm a physicist, and I'll tell you, they put that extra material there to absorb the stresses of a fixed gear. A track BB shell is not designed to take those loads, and thus you HAVE TO USE TRACK CRANKS ON A TRACK FRAME.

Now, as for the wheelset, you can get away with formula hubs, but really, track bikes are designed to use tubular tires. See, tubular tires have lower rolling resistance, and track bikes are designed to use them, so the added forces of a tire with a very HIGH rolling resistance (remember, resistance = load = forces), such as a clincher tire designed for the road, will put undue stresses on your fork and rear stays.

Listen man, you can build it however you want, but if you don't want to face plant in the middle of the street because YOU put components the bike was NOT DESIGNED TO USE, that's your decision.

Added benefit of tubulars: Tubular rims can be had for cheap at most bike shops or on ebay.

See, building a track bike doesn't have to be ALL expensive! Imagine if you had to buy a d-ace 9spd group!

I don't exactly remember this newton guy you're talking about. What does he have to do with bikes?

Listen man, I'm a physicist, and I'll tell you, they put that extra material there to absorb the stresses of a fixed gear. A track BB shell is not designed to take those loads, and thus you HAVE TO USE TRACK CRANKS ON A TRACK FRAME.

Now, as for the wheelset, you can get away with formula hubs, but really, track bikes are designed to use tubular tires. See, tubular tires have lower rolling resistance, and track bikes are designed to use them, so the added forces of a tire with a very HIGH rolling resistance (remember, resistance = load = forces), such as a clincher tire designed for the road, will put undue stresses on your fork and rear stays.

Listen man, you can build it however you want, but if you don't want to face plant in the middle of the street because YOU put components the bike was NOT DESIGNED TO USE, that's your decision.

never heard such a complete bullsh!t.

to OP, get sugino RD, or maybe stronglight track cranks. they are cheaper and they'll serve you just fine. And stick to some cheap shimano cartridge BB, and you will be fine. don't forget it's Italian threaded. Oh, and have a mechanic install them properly if possible.

rd crankset is not as stiff (obv) as 75 but also half the price. It will hold up to most of our non gigantic keirin racer legs just fine.

+1 for Stronglight (www.businesscycles.com)

just have fun with the build and don't stress.

BTW. from my experience, lbs will charge you about the same to install you BB as it costs to by the tool and DIY. Just get the tool and learn.

BTW. from my experience, lbs will charge you about the same to install you BB as it costs to by the tool and DIY. Just get the tool and learn.
improper installation of BB could seriously damage the frame. since her knowledge of bike mechanics and terminology is somehow limited, maybe OP should ask someone with experience to show her how to install it first.

agreed

man you guys are like totally beating me into this "spend a ton on this bike..it deserves it"...wtf...it's a frame...it's a bike...it's a track bike...who cares if I don't buy all campy or italian stuff. I'm not going to buy super expensive stuff okay. I just need to know what will make this bike go without messing it up...that's all. A simple "no you can't use road cranks on a track bike because...etc..etc..etc" would have been fine. Jesus!

do you still have the bike pictured in your avatar? if so, why rush to build up the somec
with parts that you're just going end up replacing in the long run.

besides that's the great thing about a track bike, there are hardly any parts to buy, so
why not make sure they are quality.

i just don't understand why you would buy a nice track frame only to build it up with low
quality parts. if you don't really care, then buy a low quality track frame to match those
low quality parts that you want to buy.

...then sell me the somec so i can put some nice nos vintage campy parts on it.

I'm with you Seaden. You don't have to spend a ton t make this a nice bike that you love.

The one thing I would suggest to you that others have: Take your time building this up. Be mindful as you go. ENJOY the process of selecting parts, hunting for bargains and building.

It took me a week to build my first conversion, and it's taking me months to build my Soma. I built the conversion fast, because I wanted to RIDE. I'm taking my time with the currernt project for 2 reasons: I want it to be really nice when I'm done, someting I can be proud of, and I'm also savoring the process of building.

Savor this project. Enjoy the process of building it as much as you will eventually enjoy riding it. Choose the parts that make you happy. Splurge where you feel you need to splurge, but not because some online bike geek says "you can't put road cranks on a track bike!"

Above all SLOW DOWN! 2 days ago you were saying "I think I might get a track frame" then BAM you snap up this Somec! You're very vulnerable to suggestion now. I suggest before you buy anything else you wait till you have the frame in hand. Polish it up with a diaper, and take it to bed with you for a few nights. Let yourself fall in love with it, and then move forward mindfully.

Thems my 4¢

BTW Vomitron is totally full of ****. If you didn't get that yet.

Listen man, I'm a physicist, and I'll tell you, they put that extra material there to absorb the stresses of a fixed gear. A track BB shell is not designed to take those loads, and thus you HAVE TO USE TRACK CRANKS ON A TRACK FRAME.

Now, as for the wheelset, you can get away with formula hubs, but really, track bikes are designed to use tubular tires. See, tubular tires have lower rolling resistance, and track bikes are designed to use them, so the added forces of a tire with a very HIGH rolling resistance (remember, resistance = load = forces), such as a clincher tire designed for the road, will put undue stresses on your fork and rear stays.

Listen man, you can build it however you want, but if you don't want to face plant in the middle of the street because YOU put components the bike was NOT DESIGNED TO USE, that's your decision.
Hehe, you're silly.

Alright, so you say they put extra material in the cranks (I'm assuming, you never really specified, but since you said the BB can't handle the load you must mean it's weak, therefore has less material) to handle the load, but as a physicist you must also know force balancing. That is, if he puts 180 pounds on a track crank that flexes little, or a road crank that flexes more, once the material is done flexing that 180 pounds is still placed directly onto the bottom bracket. Now, it doesn't matter if it is applied in forward motion or rear, as the BB shell doesn't get much torque from the crankset, only the forces.

The frame must then have extra material? Well, no, as track bikes are designed to take very specifically meted forces, not including being ridden roughly on the street, although they can be used for such. And the force a track rider places on the bike is no more than that of the same racer on a road frame, as if they're on the same ratio there is no difference when accelerating except for slightly higher drivetrain resistance on the road bike.

Now, tubulars. They actually have a higher rolling resistance, but the lower weight of both the tubular and tubular-specific rim decreases the rotational inertia of the wheelset, making accelerating, such in track sprints, far easier. However, due to the greater flexes in tubular tires, they have a tiny amount MORE rolling resistance.

So therefore, if you have tubulars on your bike, due to THEIR higher rolling resistance, they must be putting undue stress on YOUR bike, which is liable to fail at any moment apparently! AND you're putting more stress on the BB shell by allowing for less flex in the crank, making a more drastic application of load possible! You better just give your bike(s) to me so they can be safeguarded and made suitable for track application...

[/thinks he knows it all Junior in Mechanical Engineering who hates ignorance rant over]

As for your bike, I'd go with mattface's suggestion. Wait for deals, wait for the right part, don't just throw money at companies until you get something that's ok.

So wait...unless you got an absolute STEAL on that Somec, why are you worried about putting nice parts on it? Most newbies don't just stumble across Somec frames...

She just spent $400 on a frame on impulse, and probably doesn't have much left to buy components.

That's why I say slow down, and move forward mindfully from here on out. Aside from the potential of buying expensive parts on impulse. You also stand a very good chance of buying parts that won't fit if you're not careful. So just take time to consider each part carefully before you buy it. Make sure it will fit with all the other parts you already have. That way you'll have a bike that is perfect wether or not the parts are expensive if they are all good quality, and fit correctly, your bike will work great.

Make sure you buy parts you feel good about, but ignore the fashion police who say you can't ride a Somec with out period Campy components on it. It's your bike no one has to like it but you.

I'm with you Seaden. You don't have to spend a ton t make this a nice bike that you love.

The one thing I would suggest to you that others have: Take your time building this up. Be mindful as you go. ENJOY the process of selecting parts, hunting for bargains and building.

It took me a week to build my first conversion, and it's taking me months to build my Soma. I built the conversion fast, because I wanted to RIDE. I'm taking my time with the currernt project for 2 reasons: I want it to be really nice when I'm done, someting I can be proud of, and I'm also savoring the process of building.

Savor this project. Enjoy the process of building it as much as you will eventually enjoy riding it. Choose the parts that make you happy. Splurge where you feel you need to splurge, but not because some online bike geek says "you can't put road cranks on a track bike!"

Above all SLOW DOWN! 2 days ago you were saying "I think I might get a track frame" then BAM you snap up this Somec! You're very vulnerable to suggestion now. I suggest before you buy anything else you wait till you have the frame in hand. Polish it up with a diaper, and take it to bed with you for a few nights. Let yourself fall in love with it, and then move forward mindfully.

Thems my 4¢

BTW Vomitron is totally full of ****. If you didn't get that yet.
+1. Patience is a virtue. Have fun, enjoy it. Do what thou wilst.

man you guys are like totally beating me into this "spend a ton on this bike..it deserves it"...wtf...it's a frame...it's a bike...it's a track bike...who cares if I don't buy all campy or italian stuff. I'm not going to buy super expensive stuff okay. I just need to know what will make this bike go without messing it up...that's all. A simple "no you can't use road cranks on a track bike because...etc..etc..etc" would have been fine. Jesus!


Calm down lady. No one is telling you to spend bling bucks on the bike, just suggesting that you should take your time and pick your parts carefully. We've all been where you are now and have learned from experience and it tells us that you will sooner or later want to up grade if you get cheaper parts so why waste the money now. And no one is telling you to get campy record or sugino gigas, just that you should get cheap bits. A 75 is a nice in between so are the miche gruppo. We're all excited for you that you have this bike and also want to see you build it up but just wanted to give you some suggestions since we get this a lot from 'newb' and we don't want to see you post a month from now asking what new parts you should upgrade to.

just my .51348513982 cents.

You can use uncooked spaghetti as cranks if you want, they just might not hold up as well. That being said, I've been using a set of Shimano Ultegra 600's without much problem (except my first bottom bracket crapping out of me, but it was old as hell, so ..). If you're going to buy something new, might as well be something really up for the task. If its a hand me down, enjoy using it if its decent quality.

man you guys are like totally beating me into this "spend a ton on this bike..it deserves it"...wtf...it's a frame...it's a bike...it's a track bike...who cares if I don't buy all campy or italian stuff. I'm not going to buy super expensive stuff okay. I just need to know what will make this bike go without messing it up...that's all. A simple "no you can't use road cranks on a track bike because...etc..etc..etc" would have been fine. Jesus!


naw that's exactly what they're not saying. it's best to get a track crankset because you'll have more difficulty getting the right chainline with a road crankset, and it'll irritate you and it makes having a track frame kinda pointless, or at least it'll nullify the advantages of having one over your, is it a motobecane? your conversion anyway.

so folks are suggesting the sugino options because they're cheaper than campy/dura exotica.

and it does make sense, since you have a bike to ride, to buy decent track stuff for the track frame, even if you don't buy everything at once.

from my own experience, upgrading to a solid track drivetrain (miche cranks and hubs w/campy bb—quality, dedicated and economical) was a terrific move.

you will be happy in the long run spending the $200 or so a decent crankset and bb costs, and you won't have to upgrade, ever.

a decent track wheelset can be had relatively cheaply. just be sure to buy a decent cog.

this can be done without spending a lot of money, and you'll appreciate the bike a lot more with the right stuff on it. you'll learn from the bike better too.

yeah i think vomitron needs to spend a minute drawing force diagrams. he may be right about internal stresses on road cranks, i'm not sure seaden or many of us here would ride fast/hard enough to yield, fatigue over long enough time maybe...but as far as the bottom bracket shell, no way would road cranks cause explosions.

who made that infamous line of road doubles made out of plastic explosives? those made my bottom bracket explode. maybe that's what vomitron is talking about.

I can't believe Vomitron is a Physist, and there is NO WAY I would ever take his advice about which bike parts are or aren't likely to fail.

Doesn't anyone else remember THIS? http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=143548&highlight=seatpost

So Vomitron, what seatpost do you think she should use?


As for the seat post, ya'll sound like a bunch of pansies. Have you seen my fscking rear wheel?!? IT'S MADE OF CARBON FIBER, AND HAS BEEN KNOWN TO RANDOMLY EXPLODE.

I obviously have absolutely no regard for my own life.

oh ****!


lol

That was me using non-track parts with a track bike. See what happens?

I'M A PHYSICIST GOD DAMN YOU.

That was me using non-track parts with a track bike. See what happens?

I'M A PHYSICIST GOD DAMN YOU.

Physicist by day, camp counselor by night. MY camp counselor told me never to use track cranks on a road frame, because the extra stiffness would cause the bottom bracket to IMPLODE.

Those damn physicist camp counselors can never agree on anything. I'd much rather hear from a mechanical engineer/waiter.

i'm with the folks who said take your time, and build it up with quality parts.
doesn't mean you have to break the bank buying NOS campy, but since you already have a rideable bike, there's not a HUGE rush to build it (well, other than that you want to ride it RIGHT NOW ;)).

you'll be happier in the long run if you take a little loger and go with higher quality parts.

sorry guys...I know you meant well I just felt a little like I was being pushed to a corner and pointed at.

Anyway I will look around for some quality cranks. My lbs is owned by a japanese racer and I'll bring in the frame for him to give me advice on. Especially what kind of track cranks to buy...the Jis or ISO or whatever. THat is the main part right...good cranks and bb. btw do track bikes take the 1/8 or 3/32 chain and cog?

Dolface! I did see those campy cranks you have on ebay...woah! pretty stuff!

doesn't the frame come with a bb? just checked, it does come with one, a sugino, and since it's raygunner ish, it'll prolly be a good one.

you can run 3/32" or 1/8" on track bikes, doesn't make any functional difference (some folks say they worry about 3/32" chains breaking, but it's not a big issue).

main thing is, since the frame is small, you're gonna want to run 165's to minimize pedal strike and toeverlap.

I can't believe Vomitron is a Physist, and there is NO WAY I would ever take his advice about which bike parts are or aren't likely to fail.

Doesn't anyone else remember THIS? http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=143548&highlight=seatpost

So Vomitron, what seatpost do you think she should use?

Oh, snap! It's like the Willie Horton of the Exploding Bottom Bracket thread '06! Mattface, you Swift Boat Veteran, you!

doesn't the frame come with a bb? just checked, it does come with one, a sugino, and since it's raygunner ish, it'll prolly be a good one.

you can run 3/32" or 1/8" on track bikes, doesn't make any functional difference (some folks say they worry about 3/32" chains breaking, but it's not a big issue).

main thing is, since the frame is small, you're gonna want to run 165's to minimize pedal strike and toeverlap.

where besides ebay and lbs could I find 165mm track cranks?

PS...I wasn't planning on buying anything before I got the frame unless raygunner was planning to sell me some gipemme track cranks.

seaden - im gonna bump a thread for you. look for "useful fixed gear links"

if you want gipemme's (it's spelled 'gipiemme'), ebay and cl are your best bet, since they're not made any more (the company was bought in '89, and now makes mountain bike stuff i think).

although i've come upon this thread somewhat late, i must say that i do not recommend sugino rds at all. they flex a lot. i even noticed the flex before i had ever tried anything else for comparison. rds are road cranks, plain and simple. they were used on the bianchi pista in '05, but are not at all singlespeed or fixed specific. my friend uses my old set on his road bike.

in any case, my point is just that, if you want to buy road cranks and a bottom bracket to get you going for now, i would really advise picking up a pair of older shimano 105 or 600/ultegra road cranks rather than some faux-track crap like the rd. you'll find that the shimanos are substantially stiffer. you will certainly be able to find a nice used set that you can use with a cheap shimano un53/73 107mm sealed bottom bracket for a decent track (42-43mm) chainline. if you go that route, the set will almost certainly have a 42 tooth chainring, which will give you a good starting ratio with a standard 16 tooth cog in the rear. you just take off the larger ring, buy some single stack chainring bolts (since you will only have one ring now) and you're golden. total investment will be about $55-$75 - probably $30-40 for the crankset, another $25-35 for the bottom bracket. this will get you riding, which is what matters.

then, when you decide to pick up sugino 75s (they are the way to go to maximize quality:cost ratio), you will be able to keep the 107mm bottom bracket that you have until you can later afford the proper 109mm sugino bottom bracket (or, alternatively, the shimano dura-ace 109 square taper cartridge.. or, the ultrabling hatta). it will allow you to upgrade when you can afford to, instead of having your frame sitting in the corner for a few more months.