Steps to evaluate free tandem offer

[AD-SLE]

I have a buddy who lives 350 miles away. He picked up a tandem FOC that had some form of a crack in the frame. He took it on three years ago and did nothing with it. I asked of the status and he said it is mine for the taking. Good grief!

Where do I start? He is more into racing and pedaling to win than what is exactly between his legs if you know what I mean. Hence the reason the tandem has not been repaired.

Do I even want to go down this road? Wife runs marathons with great success. Rides with me a little but does not have the 'bug'. Oldest daughter ready to ride but can't last a 30 mile ride. Tandems sound of interest.

First step is to see if the guy can tell me what make and model, captain stand over height, stoker SOH, and the nature of the frame failure with maybe a digital camera shot before I even think of driving up there?

How would you guys start? Or would you view this as a money pit that should be avoided?

[ElRey]

What part of "free" did I miss? If the fit questions get answered correctly, and the pic doesn't looks too bad, get the thing and take it to a frame repair guy for an estimate. If it's too much, are you really out alot? Hey, you even got to see a friend. If it's not bad, then you got a ride for real cheap. When that final knee injury hits, the marathoner may decide she likes it (my own experience).

[TandemGeek]

How would you guys start? Or would you view this as a money pit that should be avoided?

Free of Charge doesn't tell us much about the tandem... So your instincts on collecting more data and photos, not to mention sizing specs. is the right one.

The answer to your question will definitely be drive by the answers to these questions:
- What's the brand/model/frame material?
- Why, where, and how did it crack, e.g., old age, head tube, and fatigue or....??
- How do you intend to use the frame once it's fixed? Cruising bike paths with the kids or racing with two 190lb adults?

For example, if it's an old POS or cheap off-shore steel frame, the cost of a proper repair would probably exceed the value of the frame. However, a simple patch job with a spray can touch-up might be "good enough". If it's a premium quality steel frame with a flawed seat tube a proper repair might still cost less than a new frame. Heck, if it's a Co-Motion a replacement or repair could be covered under warranty.

[zonatandem]

Agree, a quality frame tube that's cracked can be replaced by a competent builder.
If it's a cheapie tandem I'd pass even if it's 'free.'

[mtbcyclist]

First step is to see if the guy can tell me what make and model, captain stand over height, stoker SOH, and the nature of the frame failure with maybe a digital camera shot before I even think of driving up there?

Agree with others have stated. I would also get the top tube length for captian/stoker as well. I would CAREFULLY inspect the entire frame. If it has had failure in one place it might be suspect to have failure in other places depending on the trama the bike went though. In other words if the bike was hit by a car, it would most likely have other failures, where as if it was not but cracked due to faulty tubing, welding yadaa yadda yadda you are most likely OK. (The car thing is just one example.)

[AD-SLE]

Tandem experts:

Here is an update but it is still a bit weak. Tandem is a Burley, he knows our size and the answer to fit is yes it will. No model of Burley was provided so I am still in the dark. Componants are Shimano. Frame is steel. Frame failure is on the stokers rear seat tube. Sadley that is all I got. I am inclinded to make the 700 mile drive to go pick it up.

I realize I am being a wimp and any committed cyclist would jump on a free Burley right? Space, new bike carrier, time, learning, $$$. And, do I want to open Pandora's box? Guess I am a wimp. I just know when I start something I don't do it half *****.

So, based on the update should I go get it? Will you guys help me through the process? Is there a better place for newbies to ask stupid questions? Any other questions I should get covered before I make a 700 mile journey?

Thanks!

[zonatandem]

If your friend is the 'original' owner of the Burley, the tandem frame has a lifetime guarantee (but only to the original owner) which means they will fix it for free (usually) it it is a design/building flaw.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

[ElRey]

You either want to or not.

[TandemGeek]

So, based on the update should I go get it? Will you guys help me through the process? Is there a better place for newbies to ask stupid questions? Any other questions I should get covered before I make a 700 mile journey.!

If you want to figure out if tandeming is something that you might like, make the somewhat shorter drive to Tandems Limited in Birmingham, Alabama (http://www.tandemsltd.com)with your wife and daughter and spend a day test riding several different brand and models of tandems. You'll get the benefit of being taught how to ride a tandem that's fully assembled and problem-free which will go a lot further towards providing a timely answer to the question -- "Is tandeming something we'll enjoy?" Although there will certainly be some pressure to buy, you're certainly not obligated....

It just so happens that next weekend is their annual Customer Appreciation Day / Open House; more info here. (http://www.tandemsltd.com/Sweetheart01.htm)BTW, this is a home-based tandem shop located in subdevelopment on the East side of Birmingham.

Back to the Burley, if after taking a trip to Birmingham you're still interested in the Burley, unless you were going to spend some time with your friend I'd be more inclined to offer him $50 - $100 to box-up and ship the frame to you via UPS, Fed-Ex or via a Greyhound Bus. Given that it's frame only, it can probably be boxed up in a pair of narrow single bike frame boxes and still fall within UPS / Fed-Ex's size constraints.

Just my .02.

[AD-SLE]

Well, I now have a Burley Duet in my garage! But I had little to no time to see exactly what I have after driving 430 miles back yesterday evening. Here is what I did see and perhaps you guys can comment.

Brakes are canterleaver and not the newer linear which may help date it. No drum brake but it appears to have a braze on fitting that I assume is for attaching a drum.Rims are 700 with 23cm tires. RD is Deore, flight deck shifters with STX on top. Hubs were Sansun I think. Rims said Sun. In general after 3 to 5 years of no use it is in need of some TLC.

As for the cracked frame. I am now the third owner but the second owner never rode it. First owner did not know of any crack, he just upgraded and gave the Duet to the second owner to make space to make space for the new one. Guess they were good friends! Second owner found the stoker seat post frozen, had a shop remove it and when he was fitting his own post he noticed some bubbles coming out of the seat tube down near the bottom bracket as he was sliding the post in. Back then he investigated and found a hairline crack in the tube not the lug work. He pointed to the area but I could not see anything. As a result, he never put his wife on the back and it sat for 4 years. I will take a long look over the weekend and report more. Sounds to me like this bike needs to be ridden and if something develops in that area then worry about it. Whole thing seems a bit odd but I have not had much time to look.

Now that I have taken the plunge any words of advice?? I know I may sound like a timid guy. I'm not, I've just learned the hard way. Ask twice, wrench once. Tandems in my mind seem to be pushing the engineering envelope more than a single. As such a little more care should be taken to ensure all is functioning. I can wrench all my singles but tandems are new to me. Perhaps they are more bullet proof than I think. You guys have been there, I'm a tandem NEWBIE! I don't even know anyone in the area that rides one. Time to change that!

Thanks!

[Rincewind8]

...when he was fitting his own post he noticed some bubbles coming out of the seat tube down near the bottom bracket as he was sliding the post in.
I think you should replicate that, to see where the crack is. Maybe just take out the seat tube and put a little pressure in there with an airpump.

If it is really just a small hairline crack, maybe a local welder can fix it?!

[zonatandem]

Tandems are 'more bullet proof' than what you think: they have to be!
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth; nothing wrong with canti brakes and yes the Duet is threaded on both sides of rear hub to accomodate a drum brake and there is a little 'pacman' attachment under the chainstay too.
Check out that seattube issue; Yes, a frame builder can replace it.
Still cheaper than buying a used Duet.

[AD-SLE]

Found some free time to get her all cleaned up Saturday in the very windy 43F temps. One UGLY color but I can't be too fussy! I can't replicate bubbles from crack..I have gone over with magnifying glass and bright light. Rear BB looks rock solid. Front, there is a small bit of rust in weld. But minor IMO. I have many questions but will search all posts first so as to not duplicate.

First: Is it better to post mechanical issues in Tandems or under Bicycle Mechanics?

Assuming this is the right place, question number one. The brakes don't seem to have what I call factory engineering vis-a-vis cable routing and hardware for cable stops.

The front brake. The stem is so low that it forces the cable into a kink. They work but I guess I would have expected a better solution. Could be the stem just needs to be move up and I should replace the housing. And, perhaps the bike in original form did not have STX flight deck shifters? But still, getting the cable to the stem supported (short) cable stop would we awkward. Comments?

Rear brake. Micky mouse cable stop support! See picture. The ALU holder has a much larger hole than the bolt that captures it. I just can't imagine this is factory? They work, yes, but I've seen better fitting on walmart bikes. Any thoughts?

[TandemGeek]

There are a number of different ways to deal with the cantilever brake cable hanger issues. On the front end, you'll need to figure out how high the front stem should be before deciding if you need to get a different hanger -- one that has a drop such as the one depicted about 4/5ths of the way down this Web page on the right: http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/parts/brakes/brakes.html

Again, the key is to get the handlebars and quill stem positioned where it needs to be before you start trying to determine if you really have an interference problem.

On the rear, that's not the worst I've seen and it probably works as well as it needs to. There are other rear brake cable hangers and integrated seatpost clamps available (see same page as above)... but if it works?

[2372ighost]

Thats the factory rear cable stop. My brakes were replaced with Deore XT side pull canti`s with brake boosters, best single improvement I made. Also think about changing the brifter cabling with up to date SIS housing and cables if it wasn`t already changed out. That year bike was in a transition period and might have regular brake housing for the brifters. Mine did.

[AD-SLE]

Thanks! As always, a wealth of knowledge! I will make the brakes a level B priority to get sorted out. My frustration now is I want to ride her and discover the likes and dislikes before I spend money. I had a road bike buddy of mine come over and look it over. Another set of unbiased eyes on the frame crack issue. He confirmed my assesment. Can't see a thing, can't replicate the bubbles. If there is something wrong it is so tiny that it won't compromise the strength of the frame.

We then moved on to the Shimano RSX brake shifters which are not working. Gather they are early generation. They shift up but the smaller inside lever does not engage and therefore you cannot shift down. We did the WD-40 anti gum rutine but no progress. He suggested buying a new set (105s on sale for $150) and don't mess with this this old set.

Of course I continue my reading on this site and see the Shimano STIs get a two thumbs down and Campy is the way to go. Great PDF of mixing Shimano & Campy. But man, I have not even ridden this thing! I am a little gun shy because I don't know what is good or bad. I'll spend the money if it is the right money but I need some counsel.

She has Shimano Deore LX FD & RD sith SIS housing which I assume was an upgrade at some point on an original 7spd on a 48 spoke Sansin hub. Cassete or Freewheel? The cogs say SunTour and I don't think Suntour ever made cassette. And even though I can see splines between hub flange and big sprocket, I assume this is what Sheldon Brown meant when he said SunTour produced "...the first widely distributed freewheels using splined sprockets" So I am making the assumption it is freewheel. Campy shifters, Shimano FR & Dr, Suntour sprockets. Jtek does not have a model for that mix!

Do I enter uncharted territory (for me) and buy the Campy Ergopower brake/shift levers and follow the ShiftMate upgrade process? Or should I remove the Shimano STI set and see if I disassemble, clean and see if I can make them work? My buddy gave them a thumbs down, others here don't seem to like them. I'd hate to buy some 105s only to learn they don't trim well for the FD.

Thanks for the ongoing input!

[TandemGeek]

Spend the least amount possible, cannibalizing where possible, to get the thing in rideable condition; downtube or bar-end shifters or some 2nd hand Shimano 600's, Ultegras or whatever other 8 speed shifters you can get your hands on. Remember, you're just trying to see if you and yours will enjoy riding the tandem and to see what, if any, hidden problems may exist in the frame or other components that won't reveal themselves until you ride it.

There's always plenty of time to upgrade later.

[2372ighost]

I can`t believe both ****ers have failed the same way, gummed up cables will do the same thing. after sitting for so long I would remove the cables from the housing and lubricate. While the cables are out, check freedom of movement of front dr and rear dr

[AD-SLE]

TandemGeek. Good thought but my goodie box is full of 20 year old stuff after a 20 year hiatus from the bike scene. I do have some vintage bar end ratchet shifters but doubt they could handle a tripple. Guess the best bet is to see if I can revive the old STI shifters....then try the bar end shifters and just settle for two chainrings and 6 of the 7 in back, it's mostly flat here in Memphis. Now on to find a post about timing chain tension. Mine seems very tight.

[zonatandem]

Agree with T'geek . . . $pend as little as need be, and ride it a while first. Then if it is to your liking start thinking 'upgrade/replacement' of components that are not to your satisfaction.
Rather than WD-40, a penetrating spray may work better on the brifters . . . spray 'em and leave sit/soak over night. If that fails, your old barcons will do the trick.
Replacing cables/housing or lubricating the heck out of 'em could help shifting.
Also remove/clean/lubricate both chains. Tension adjustment on the Duet is via two allen screws on top of pilot bottom bracket if I recall correctly; loosen the screws then use pin tool to move eccentric to adjust chain tension. After tension adjustment, pedal backwards and check if there are any tight spots in the cross-over chain (chainrings are not perfectly round or worn). Should have a bit of bounce in the center(about 1/2 inch) when chain is in the tightest position.
The setups for front and rear brake hangers are standard for that year bike. Yup, they could be improved a bit as suggested.
Good luck with the Duet!

[rlong]

Found some free time to get her all cleaned up Saturday in the very windy 43F temps. One UGLY color but I can't be too fussy! I can't replicate bubbles from crack..I have gone over with magnifying glass and bright light. Rear BB looks rock solid. Front, there is a small bit of rust in weld. But minor IMO. I have many questions but will search all posts first so as to not duplicate.

First: Is it better to post mechanical issues in Tandems or under Bicycle Mechanics?

Assuming this is the right place, question number one. The brakes don't seem to have what I call factory engineering vis-a-vis cable routing and hardware for cable stops.

The front brake. The stem is so low that it forces the cable into a kink. They work but I guess I would have expected a better solution. Could be the stem just needs to be move up and I should replace the housing. And, perhaps the bike in original form did not have STX flight deck shifters? But still, getting the cable to the stem supported (short) cable stop would we awkward. Comments?

Rear brake. Micky mouse cable stop support! See picture. The ALU holder has a much larger hole than the bolt that captures it. I just can't imagine this is factory? They work, yes, but I've seen better fitting on walmart bikes. Any thoughts?
These are the same hangers I have on my "97" Burley Rock n Roll. However, on mine everything fits tightly. The rear hanger is intended to move about in order to find it's best position. At least it appears so. I agree with Tandem Geek in that your front stem must be positioned correctly first. It appears to be at the absolute bottom and would of course pinch the cable in the present position.

[Old Hammer Boy]

On those brifters, you might want to remove them, place them in a bucket of hot Simple Green/water solution, slosh them around, and let them soak overnight. My LBS told me they do this often with brifters, and it often revives them. Of course, dry and lube after they get de-gunked. Just my $.02.

[AD-SLE]

You folks are most helpful. A bit of a roller coaster here. Hard to have my nice new and shinny Duet just hanging from ropes not ready to ride. I may just dial her into one gear and pedal her around the block but of course I have brifters and cables hanging so I will just have to be patient.

The reported 'crack' has been pushed to the far back burner. Whatever someone thought they saw is so tiny it will not compromise the frame anytime soon. I'll watch, poke and prod but I'm passed that.

Brakes, sounds like my concern is unwarranted. Something to improve upon later but no big deal today.

Shifters are my current focus. I like t'geek and zonatandem's counsel to get her on the road with whatever. I dug out my box of bike junk to find those old Suntour barcons. Found one.....now where is the other one? After a few minutes I drag the whole box inside where things are warmer and go through everything. DANG IT! Second barcon MIA. eBay they are going for $40!! Can someone please kick me hard! Well, 5 moves later I guess I might have an excuse. Now I need to make the rear brifter work following some other fine wisdom. Unlikely both are toast. Up to my mechanical ability to nurse one of them back to life. I have revived MTB thumb shifters with careful application of Liquid Wrench and working of small parts & springs. With a brifter you can only see 45% of the mechanism. May just try the Simple Green soak. And barcons were sounding like such a nice KISS solution!

Thanks, keep the encouragement coming. The wife looks forward to a good work out she tells me!

Lastly, I suspect I will need to order some FD/RD cables as well as brake cables. I assume I need extra long cables not sold by P or N. Local LBS is not my favorite place, they just want to sell bikes and can't imagine anyone would work on their own bike.... I have to order some single Sugino chainring bolts and cables. Best place(s)?

[Rincewind8]

N actually sells tandem cables.

[gregm]

$4.49 ea., brake or derailleur:

http://nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=2439

Another possibility is to use in-line cable separators, as you would use on a bike with S&S couplers.

-Greg

[bigbossman]

The reported 'crack' has been pushed to the far back burner. Whatever someone thought they saw is so tiny it will not compromise the frame anytime soon.

Quick check for hairline cracks that are not visible - swab the area with rubbing alcohol and then wipe clean. If there is a crack the alcohol will seep out and form a thin little wet line on the just wiped dry surface.

[bigbossman]

We then moved on to the Shimano RSX brake shifters which are not working. Gather they are early generation. They shift up but the smaller inside lever does not engage and therefore you cannot shift down

This is symptomatic of a gunked up pawl - almost guaranteed. The return spring has dried grease on it, and is not powerful enough to overcome it and return the pawl to the ratchet teeth.

To fix mine, I popped the "hood" off the top of the brake unit and hosed it out LIBERALLY with WD40. Let it sit for half a day, and then hosed it out with KROIL ( A light penetrating lubricant. This fixed the problem.

[AD-SLE]

Update:

Have collected a 5 spd Shimano SIS/Friction barcon pair. Also the Mirage Ergo levers and missing fasteners, clamps. I plan to use the Ergo's but just for brakes and wait on the J-tech shiftmate solution. Sure it seems silly but I am optimistic the barcons will get me on the road so I can start learning what this tandem thing is all about. So much to learn!! So many mistakes ahead!

Question:

I ordered a derailure and a brake tandem cable from Nashbar. In the catalog is seems the only difference is length. Brake cables have a larger OD than derailure cables. Am I about to get educated?

Lastly, I hope I can get 6 positions out of my SIS 5 speed when in friction mode. Any tips of what to avoid, how to do it right? Any smart rule of thumb on proper length of housing from barcon to stop on downtube?

Thanks again.

[gregm]

I ordered a derailure and a brake tandem cable from Nashbar. In the catalog is seems the only difference is length. Brake cables have a larger OD than derailure cables. Am I about to get educated?

The lever end fittings for brake cables are different from the fittings for derailleur cables. It's not a tandem thing, just a bike thing. :)

-Greg