Living Car Free - How do you deal with tools when going into big stores?

I'm not exactly car free, though I don't own a car of my own. But anyway, at the end of the summer, I did a 60km round trip from the small town I live in to nearest major economic center. I stopped at Walmart to say hi to my Mom, and then look around for a while. When I was leaving, the greeter lady informed me that I was not allowed to have a backpack with me, and that in the future, I should leave it with customer service. However, the thing is that I just don't feel entirely comfortable leaving my tools and supplys in the hands of complete strangers. Granted, it may not be that big of a deal to leave them there, but it still is annoying. (I suspect that it might help if my backpack had a zipper so that they could tape the zippers together with that special Wal-Mart tape, and be able to tell if I had opened it since I came in.) Oddly enough, I was in a mega mall once in Calgary with my backpack (again, on a bike ride with a couple of friends), and none of the stores in that mall I visited seemed to have much of a problem with that.

Anybody else have similar problems in big stores? How do you deal with such problems? Do you use different kinds of storage containers? And what about things like panniers? Do you just leave them on the backs of your bikes (If I had a pannier, I would be very afraid to park my bike and leave it on for fear that some yahoo would come along and steal it)? If you have any other such related storys, feel free to share them.

Yes, I find it strange than they allow hand bags (some larger than any backpack could ever be) and purses, but no backpacks. Annoying.

i freaken hate that. so much, in fact, that i avoid places that make you check a bag before entering. it's basically saying: "we don't trust you enough not to steal".

I've gotten over my paranoia about putting packages in the store office and now even when they don't insist I ask if I can leave my panniers in the office, especially when I'm doing a multi store trip and the panniers are partially loaded.

Does the bag have eyelets or something where you can zip-tie it shut before you check it? That way, you'll know if the bag has been opened if the zip tie is broken or missing. It's not fail-safe, but it deters crimes of opportunity.

I think the "greeter" is more of a theft deterrent than a customer service thing.

What I do is just check the backpack (1) whenever asked or (2) if there's a prominent sign, no big deal. It just means the greeter got told to make people check backpacks.

If a store doesn't have a sign up front stating a bag check policy, I don't just volunteer to hand over my pack unless specifically asked. Whoever you hand it to might not know what they're supposed to do with it.

Bag checking is mostly enforced in downscale places such as dollar stores and those little stores with bars on the windows. Wal Mart, did you say?

What I do is just check the backpack (1) whenever asked or (2) if there's a prominent sign

I don't mind checking my backpack, but I never do it unless specifically asked by a person. Very rare occurrence.

Well, for starters, I just wouldn't go to Wal-Mart, but that's a topic for a different thread. I don't recall ever having been in an establishment that required checking one's bag (at least not while I was carrying one). If I enter a store with my bag, or a bag from another store, I will sometimes ask if it's ok for me to bring it in, or if they would like to hold it while I'm there. They've always politely said that it wouldn't be necessary. It depends on the place - what they sell, how the store is set up, the employees, etc.

I doubt your age helps - you're in high school, right? The fact that you don't frequent the place - maybe have never even been in there - probably doesn't help either. Many store employees, especially at WM where many may be retirees, view anyone under say, 25, as punk kids.

I just walk in.

I don't check my bags. I once got asked to leave my bag. I camly said, "That is fine, I will just need a form of ID and major credit card please"

They let me go, with my bag.

(BTW I'm not car free but I love lurking here)

:-)

i picked up a package from amazon at the post office then cruised over to an auto parts store....the alarm went off when i walked in...this was around xmas time...you should have seen the looks i got from the customers and clerks....it would have been a classic scene in a movie of ben stiller...everybody was like 'xmas brings out some bad folks too'...

i definitely think about my backpack and where i go with my bike....alot of people look at you as derelict

i freaken hate that. so much, in fact, that i avoid places that make you check a bag before entering. it's basically saying: "we don't trust you enough not to steal".

It's basically saying: "we don't have sufficient trust in our security cameras to catch anyone who steals.

To be honest I can't say I've encountered this problem very much outside a few rather tacky department stores (i.e. K-Mart). Even then I usually just walk in with the backpack and nobody bothers me. If it ever became a recurring problem, I'd probably just find somewhere else to shop.

I just walk in.

I don't check my bags. I once got asked to leave my bag. I camly said, "That is fine, I will just need a form of ID and major credit card please"

I like that attitude! I also refuse to leave my bag behind, or have it fastened shut by an employee. If a store can't trust its customers, let them install a theft-prevention system instead of hassling me about it.

I am seldom asked to leave a bag (and its a backpack, not a school bag dammit!), but when I am I inform the employee that unless the store will be responsible for the contents, including full replacement cost with new items, I am not leaving it. That content sometimes includes $2500 or more in photo equipment. And I want a receipt signed by the employee accepting the bag. Never happens, they just roll their eyes at me and waive me through.

I don't think many stores here are still asking to see/secure/kidnap bags. Its very unpopular with the customers.

if i'm asked to hand over MY belonging i just keep walking and invite them to walk with me and shop. when i go in a store i'm quick to be in and out, and usually walking at a quick pace. if someone is yelling SIR SIR in a crowded store, i don't feel obiligated to turn around. i know that's rude, but i'm just getting my tasks done.

i also point out that purses, and strollers contain much more "stuff" than my simple rack trunk or messenger bag that's usually with me.

also on above note, when leaving walgreens with me prescriptions the door alarm always goes off for some reason. in all the times that happens i never linger and turn around and just keep walking. no one has ever followed me out to the parking lot. if they request a receipt i'll be happy to show, but just because a bell goes off doesn't mean i am going to slow down and be "whoopsie daisy how can i help"

*but i never ***** about the store policy to employees or hassle them. it's not their rules, and in the above examples since i walk fast with a purpose, they usually just leave me alone

I think store security people have the peception (true or false, I don't know) that young students do a lot of shoplifting. They ask all customers to check their backpacks so that they can ask the students.

I usually point out that it doesn't make sense to take my backpack, then let (usually) female customers shop with their big handbags. The greeter usually agrees--they would really have to agree, since it makes complete sense. Then they sometimes lt me proceed with my backpack, sometimes they don't. I dont' really think the employees are going to steal anything, I mean you would have to be a tad paranoid to think that, wouldn't you? So, I'll give it up if they continue to insist, but I do make a minor stink about it. Like james, I don't try to make the employee feel bad, especially since they have always been courteous to me.

Something to think about: Do you believe that those security cameras are all real, or that they all work? Some are hoaxes, and many are not hooked to recorders.

Now, the whole issue is a much bigger problem at high security locations like courthouses and federal buildings, where you have to pass through a metal detector. My tools have held me up pretty badly there. Sometimes they tell me to go outside and hide them, especially an all purpose tool that folds like a pocket knife. I have better luck since I started keepin the tools in a little pouch in my backpack, instead of scattered all over.

Now, the whole issue is a much bigger problem at high security locations like courthouses and federal buildings, where you have to pass through a metal detector.

Try taking in pro photo gear! Tools, wires and cables, lead-acid battery pack.... the poor security guards don't even know what they're looking at! That is a different scenario than stores, however. First, I go to a store to spend my money - I expect to be well treated - whereas I go to a secure building to work, so the money is going the other way. Second building security is professional, applies to same rules to everyone (e.g. purses vs. backpacks) and anything they hold will be kept securely. Stores apply arbitrary and often discriminatory rules.

the places i go into that have check in places for packs & bags all have signs posted saying that they are not responsible for anything of value and ask you to remove said items before checking in the bag, if you have a lot of stuff they will let you keep your bag, i have done this more than once.

i generally make a point not to have anything of value when i go to places like that, its really not that hard to do. but in the event i am carrying high value items, i ask to speak to a manager and show them what i'm carrying like video and recording equipement and they let me in with my bag every time i ask.

i even once showed a manager a half pound of marijuana that i had with me, and was let in with my bag, though she was more than a little rattled, and to this day looks at me with a strange look.

Here's a pick of the mentioned backpack. I suppose that its ability to be used for theft could be argued either way. It's more open so even if its tied up, I can still slip stuff in. But by the same token, if its already full of my gear (a 2L waterbottle, a couple of extra pedals just in case, my music, and some tools basically) then it would be easier to check and make sure that I didn't steal anything. But I was only informed of this policy after we were leaving (and my mother, who works there, didn't even ask me to stow it somewhere. Then again, she does trust me...)

Given the amount of shoplifting and professional boosters I can't totally blame them. On the other hand if they aren't going to trust me why should I trust them? If a store is going to institute such a policy then I think it only fair that they provide, free of charge, a wall of lockers at the front of the store for you. Let it be a monument to how they feel about their customers :D

It sounds to me that the Mall-Wart lady was singling you out for some reason.

I just ignore them and walk in. Ninty nine percent of the time they will leave you alone. The other one percent I ask why I should trust them if they do not trust me? I've never had to give up my bag.

Although one time I was in a store and they demanded that I take a basket. Walking around empty handed was not allowed...

I think the "greeter" is more of a theft deterrent than a customer service thing.

I was one for over two years and yes that is it exactly. It is also a way to up the number of handicapped workers to fill their government quota without actually giving them anything useful to do (I am handicapped and thus got the job at the rip old age of 18).

I guess they think the thief will not be mean enough to attack a cripple or geriatric (trust me they are dead ****ing wrong on that one) and seeing someone like me or the more traditional elderly greeter when walking in the door makes their bloated customers feel like they are shopping at a company with morals. *Laughs hysterically*

That is one of the most degrading jobs you can ever have. The customers hate you because you momentarily arouse them from their stupor to politely ask if the want a cart and welcome them to the store, your fellow workers hate you because they think you are getting off by doing much less work for the same pay (trust me, you are not), the management hates you for the previous reason and that they are actually the ones paying you for your measly duties.

The funny thing is that your fellow workers make your life a living hell until any of them (the so called "normal" employees :roflmao: ) have to take over for you for even 15 minutes. It is amazing that nearly every single time a non-greeter had to cover for me for even a measly 15 minutes (and heaven forbid longer) when I got back I was treated to a good 10-15 minute discussion about how much the job sucked and how they could never handle it for the 4-8 hours I normally do. After that I often got a great deal of respect from them from then on out.

The biggest problem of the job is the mind-numbing boredom that drags on throughout the entirety of your stay at work that is broken only by the many sources of hatred mentioned earlier. Basically growing up in a hospital bed prepared me well for a job with little physical movement and virtually zero mental simulation (it is primarily designed for geriatrics after all). And no playing games in your head is not even remotely the secret to surviving it, mind games might help you last 15-30 minutes and after that you better find a long lasting distraction or to be blunt you are ****ed.

And if any of you doubt that so help me God I will put on the old vest and prove it to you!

Ya, i noticed that i got hassled a lot when i look like a student or look like i fit in the "stereotypical youth" catagory. i find that if im wearing my bike helmet, i get away with a lot more because cycling is usually reserved for the stereotypical " mature adult"...and its those "punk kids" that they need to worry about right?.....wow i cant stand that stereotype lol. i dont like stereotypes in general.

steve

I was one for over two years and yes that is it exactly. It is also a way to up the number of handicapped workers to fill their government quota without actually giving them anything useful to do (I am handicapped and thus got the job at the rip old age of 18).

I guess they think the thief will not be mean enough to attack a cripple or geriatric (trust me they are dead ****ing wrong on that one) and seeing someone like me or the more traditional elderly greeter when walking in the door makes their bloated customers feel like they are shopping at a company with morals. *Laughs hysterically*

That is one of the most degrading jobs you can ever have. The customers hate you because you momentarily arouse them from their stupor to politely ask if the want a cart and welcome them to the store, your fellow workers hate you because they think you are getting off by doing much less work for the same pay (trust me, you are not), the management hates you for the previous reason and that they are actually the ones paying you for your measly duties.

The funny thing is that your fellow workers make your life a living hell until any of them (the so called "normal" employees :roflmao: ) have to take over for you for even 15 minutes. It is amazing that nearly every single time a non-greeter had to cover for me for even a measly 15 minutes (and heaven forbid longer) when I got back I was treated to a good 10-15 minute discussion about how much the job sucked and how they could never handle it for the 4-8 hours I normally do. After that I often got a great deal of respect from them from then on out.

The biggest problem of the job is the mind-numbing boredom that drags on throughout the entirety of your stay at work that is broken only by the many sources of hatred mentioned earlier. Basically growing up in a hospital bed prepared me well for a job with little physical movement and virtually zero mental simulation (it is primarily designed for geriatrics after all). And no playing games in your head is not even remotely the secret to surviving it, mind games might help you last 15-30 minutes and after that you better find a long lasting distraction or to be blunt you are ****ed.

And if any of you doubt that so help me God I will put on the old vest and prove it to you!


Bwahahahahahahahahahahhahaha! Great post!

I've only gotten hassled for my backpack @ compUSA of all places.....everywhere else no problem.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahhahaha! Great post!

I've only gotten hassled for my backpack @ compUSA of all places.....everywhere else no problem.

I am glad you enjoyed it. Every letter of it is the truth and I had to put a great deal of time into making it.

I was one for over two years and yes that is it exactly. It is also a way to up the number of handicapped workers to fill their government quota without actually giving them anything useful to do (I am handicapped and thus got the job at the rip old age of 18).

I guess they think the thief will not be mean enough to attack a cripple or geriatric (trust me they are dead ****ing wrong on that one) and seeing someone like me or the more traditional elderly greeter when walking in the door makes their bloated customers feel like they are shopping at a company with morals. *Laughs hysterically*

That is one of the most degrading jobs you can ever have. The customers hate you because you momentarily arouse them from their stupor to politely ask if the want a cart and welcome them to the store, your fellow workers hate you because they think you are getting off by doing much less work for the same pay (trust me, you are not), the management hates you for the previous reason and that they are actually the ones paying you for your measly duties.

The funny thing is that your fellow workers make your life a living hell until any of them (the so called "normal" employees :roflmao: ) have to take over for you for even 15 minutes. It is amazing that nearly every single time a non-greeter had to cover for me for even a measly 15 minutes (and heaven forbid longer) when I got back I was treated to a good 10-15 minute discussion about how much the job sucked and how they could never handle it for the 4-8 hours I normally do. After that I often got a great deal of respect from them from then on out.

The biggest problem of the job is the mind-numbing boredom that drags on throughout the entirety of your stay at work that is broken only by the many sources of hatred mentioned earlier. Basically growing up in a hospital bed prepared me well for a job with little physical movement and virtually zero mental simulation (it is primarily designed for geriatrics after all). And no playing games in your head is not even remotely the secret to surviving it, mind games might help you last 15-30 minutes and after that you better find a long lasting distraction or to be blunt you are ****ed.

And if any of you doubt that so help me God I will put on the old vest and prove it to you!

Very interesting and well put. You've inspired me to live a good life. Otherwise I might have to spend eternity workin as a greeter!

Did you hear the joke on "Weekend Update" last night:
In a nationwide poll, 56 % of Americans agreed that Walmart is bad for the country. The other 44 % work there.

I was hassled once at K-Mart so I refused to ever shop there again. Thing is it wasn't even a real backpack! It was a purse made of Indian fabric that just happened to have a draw-string at the top that when closed gave you two straps you could then use to wear it like a backpack. Or throw it over your shoulder like any other purse. This was even at the height of the little tiny backpack purse fashion trend. But to the K-Mart staff, mine was a backpack, not a purse. Just by having two straps intead of one it was a potential threat to their security. Just because it wasn't teeny tiny. Nevermind that I struggled with the darn thing any time I wanted to open it. Nevermind it was barely big enough for my sweatshirt. Nevermind that I offered to let them look inside on my way out if they thought I'd stolen anything. Nevermind that it was practially empty, containing only my cash, a checkbook and a pen. If they made me check it they I'd have to leave my cash, checkbook and pen with some doofus behind a counter and then how would I pay for my purchases? Or did they expect me to walk around the store clutching my cash, checkbook and pen in one hand while I tried to fill up my basket with the other? The whole thing was ridiculous. The lady at the front refused to let me in, so I refused to ever come back.

As for paniers...I have bolted my grocery-bag type panier on to my rack. It ain't coming off.

Very interesting and well put. You've inspired me to live a good life. Otherwise I might have to spend eternity workin as a greeter!

Did you hear the joke on "Weekend Update" last night:

Did you hear the joke on "Weekend Update" last night: Quote:In a nationwide poll, 56 % of Americans agreed that Walmart is bad for the country. The other 44 % work there.

No I did not hear that, but it does not surprise me. Wal-Mart literally brain washes their "Associates" :roflmao: into thinking they are getting such a great deal when in reality they are literally the modern day slaves. This raw deal is not just limited to their employees however, but their suppliers as well. Here is a link to back that up.

The Wal-Mart you didn't know.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

Honestly Wal-Mart is evil, and that is coming from an ex-employee that quit after over two years and a fellow businessman.

Something to think about: Do you believe that those security cameras are all real, or that they all work? Some are hoaxes, and many are not hooked to recorders.

In major department stores? I think the cameras are real. I've been in the security room of several of these stores. High end, zooming/panning digital colour cameras. They can follow you through the store from the second you enter to the second you leave. They can zoom in to the point that the price tag can be read on the item the customer is handling (price tag switching is a big problem). All the images are stored digitally. Just burn a CD for court and you're all set.

In many cases the cameras are also either fakes or not turned on. That was what it was like in my old store, they may have had like 20-30 cameras but only 5 or 6 of them were ever turned on and even those were almost completely unmanned.

I have noticed that in a very busy grocery store that I frequent they don't ask me to leave my backpack because I don't think anybody would try to steal something and put the items in a backpack without somebody seeing them do it. And besides the same grocery, in addition to having cameras, has undercover "shoppers" to watch people (They have a statement saying so at the entrance). When I am at the checkout I give the bagger the empty backpack to put the groceries in so it's obvious that I'm not stealing anything.

However when I go to drug stores, dollar stores, and smaller sparsly inhabited grocery stored, particularly in a higher crime area I just give them my backpack at the checkout area or at the front desk to save some hassle.

And besides the same grocery, in addition to having cameras, has undercover "shoppers" to watch people (They have a statement saying so at the entrance).

The grocery store I worked at yeeeears ago had one of these - some retired guy who would come in and push a cart around while he sobered up. They had fake cameras, too.

Also long ago, when I still shopped at Wal-Mart, I noticed that some of the camera spheres had cables running to them, but most did not. (The open-girdered ceilings these big superstores have nowadays means all the wiring and plumbing is in plain sight.)

A couple three more points, of course there are exceptions to everything...

If the people in the office are going to steal, they have much better opportunities within the store than in my backpack. They probably don't know what to do with a nice spoke wrench or chain tool anyway. The office workers are higher on the totem pole than the check out clerks and stock clerks and I expect them to be a little more trustworthy. I look at it as a service they provide for me.

I got over my paranoia at the museums downtown. They have these nice "coatcheck" desks. The Hirshorn used to have lockers, but the NGA just has a desk and they'll hang your jacket and helmet and stuff your backpack in a cubby hole. They give you a chit for retrieval. Now when a store wants me to do the same thing it just seems like the same kind of service. The office manager in a store is probably better paid than the museum workers and has a stronger interest in treating a paying customer well.

After the guards wouldn't let me in with tools at the courthouse, they told me that the hotdog seller at the cart on the street will hold weapons for a fee. I think the nice lady charged a dollar for a biker toolkit. No, I didn't ask what she charged for more deadly items.

If I can't bring my stuff (bike stuff or otherwise) into a shop, I take my business elsewhere.

i don't expect to be able to wheel my bike around inside a store, but i have done it based on the store and attitudes.

the home depot by my also dogs in on leashes, and huge isles so not a big deal wheeling a bike around

the hit the grocery store by my work some mornings for work food, and at 7am i bring in and just lean by some carts in front. i wouldn't do that when it's super busy at 5pm

anyway i agree about just shopping elsewhere. when i'm walking around town or quick bike errands i have a messenger bag, which as my cell phone, homework papers, medicine, etc, etc. a small bookstore with one guy behind the counter i can see i would trust, but most store employees (haven't we all been one) i trust about as much as they trust me.

oh and the camera? they management puts them there to monitor the employees just as much as the customers

i freaken hate that. so much, in fact, that i avoid places that make you check a bag before entering. it's basically saying: "we don't trust you enough not to steal".


No offense but isn't that kind of the same idea as the OP being afraid to leave his bag with them? He's afraid they'll steal something. Sadly enough people do steal things that if I were running a business myself I wouldn't want to make it any easier than it already is.

No offense but isn't that kind of the same idea as the OP being afraid to leave his bag with them? He's afraid they'll steal something. Sadly enough people do steal things that if I were running a business myself I wouldn't want to make it any easier than it already is.

good point actually. i can't speak for the OP, but for me i'm less concerned about them stealing something as i am about the whole principal of the thing. but you're right - i could see how it would appear to be a double standard. it's just the thought of handing over personal belongings for the privledge of spending money at their store is just weird to me. i hate shoplifters - they really do ruin it for a lot of people.

I wouldn't leave valuables in a checked backpack, but I don't worry about employees stealing my other stuff--tools, clothing, books, etc. Only a lunatic would risk his job to steal something like that.

I just walk in.

I don't check my bags. I once got asked to leave my bag. I camly said, "That is fine, I will just need a form of ID and major credit card please"

:-)

HA!!! derath, you're my new hero. I am doing that if a "greeter" asks me to check my bag, which hasn't happened yet.

A question: do Wal-Mart greeters ask women to check their purses? It's just as easy to slip a CD into a Liz Claiborne handbag as it is a messenger bag.

I like derath's philosophy; if they don't trust me not to steal, then I don't trust them with the contents of my bag. I'll go one better, and I'd do this if I had the time: Ask for a photocopy of their driver's license and a major credit card, but also carry with you a release form with a blank table in which you can list all of your bag's contents (Pen, retractable, ballpoint, qty=1, etc...), and have them sign the release form, which would contain legal statements agreeing that they are taking posession of your bag and are responsible for the contents therein, etc. etc... That would be great!

The Wal-Mart greeters are the equivalent of the Best Buy yellow shirts at the front door. At least Best Buy doesn't try to sugar-coat their loss prevention personell.

Does the bag have eyelets or something where you can zip-tie it shut before you check it? That way, you'll know if the bag has been opened if the zip tie is broken or missing. It's not fail-safe, but it deters crimes of opportunity.

With Walmart, its more likely the whole bag would disappear while the greeter is doing a price check.

They have pulled that crap on me late at night, but I waltz in during the day.

1) Make a big stink, acknowledge that they have a right to protect themselves from theft, and that you are only trying to do the same. Make a stink about how they do not have any system to ensure that someone else does not claim your bag and that the greeter cannot possibly be expected to keep an eye on your bag and check out someone elses purchases at the same time. When they assure you that they can, roll your eyes. Point out how close they are to the door, and that a thief could be gone with your bag before they even knew it was gone. Talk about your wallet, credit cards etc that could cause you major harm if they are gone, and how if they are stolen and you have to call the cops on Walmart, that this conversation will be regarded as evidence.

If they are still not cowed, ask for a double layer of Walmart shopping bags. Pull everything out of your pack and put them in the walmart bag and tie them closed. Let them guard the back pack, but take your stuff. Go in, do your shopping.

Be polite, but blunt. You are not dealing with the finest legal minds of the country here.

[... a couple of extra pedals just in case] of what? Just wondering.

A couple extra pedals just in case the ones on my bike decided to spontaniously self destruct (it has happened numberous times to me before when I was close to home, and I would hate to be stranded as a result of pedals self destructing in the middle of nowhere). However, I am hoping that as I continue to alter my pedaling style (more spinning that hard pushing) my pedals will last significantly longer. But anyway... back on topic...

The more I (and you guys) have thought about and discussed it, the less of a risk having my gear stowed behind the couresty desk might seem. And perhaps if I am the one to be proactive and inquire about it (ie, I ask if there is someone at the desk at all times or something, ask about the policy, ask if I can have my bag stashed at courtesy, or something...) they might be more inclined to trust me and allow me to carry it around. It might also help my cause if I got a bag with zippers or something... but I love my white bag!

Anyway, I just had a word with my mother (who, like I said before, works at Walmart), and apparently there is always someone at the courtesy desk (she says it's a mandatory position), and even if there was a dishonest staff person working at the desk, he/she would not be able to steal stuff without it being caught on camera. So, I don't know why I didn't inquire about that in the first place, but now that I know, leaving my stuff at the courtesy desk seems like a good option. Although, it might be a good idea to put a piece of photo ID (ie, school ID card) in the bag just in case there are any issues verifying ownership.

Local Kroger grocery store makes me check my bag at the service desk, its no big deal really. Many of you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I dont even ask or talk to anyone at the desk anymore, just swing it over and hang it on a doorknob. I do my shopping, checkout, and grab it on the way out. I just take my cell phone out of it first, nothing else in it is worth anything.

Im a messenger, trust me, I get searched, poked, prodded, xrayed, and ID'd every single day during the week. Is it a hassle, yep, is it major, nope, not at all. Govt buildings are the worst, you have NO RIGHTS in a federal building, get used to it........hate for this to get poltical but alas I deal with it daily, we live in a new age people. Trust and honesty dont mean squat. Whatever petty grievances we have over this issue dont mean squat either, you will be assimilated or you wont be shopping. I dont like it one bit, but I recognize it for what it is. You enter a store you are on THEIR property, same with govt buildings, local rules apply.

Im a messenger, trust me, I get searched, poked, prodded, xrayed, and ID'd every single day during the week. Is it a hassle, yep, is it major, nope, not at all. Govt buildings are the worst, you have NO RIGHTS in a federal building, get used to it........hate for this to get poltical but alas I deal with it daily, we live in a new age people. Trust and honesty dont mean squat. Whatever petty grievances we have over this issue dont mean squat either, you will be assimilated or you wont be shopping. I dont like it one bit, but I recognize it for what it is. You enter a store you are on THEIR property, same with govt buildings, local rules apply.

Completely disagree with you, it is up to us to shape how we are treated... acceptance will lead to more hassle, loss of freedom, and loss of respect. I was a bit surprised when Wal-mart was mentioned in this thread, since Wal-marts in Canada do not have you check bags. I can't think of any large retailer that does, that sort of thing is usually reserved for small stores too broke to afford security systems. I would be surprised if most people here would stand for it.

But hey, its a different country. I can walk around Parliament Hill after midnight, snapping photos, and touching the front door of the Centre Block unmolested. If I see an RCMP officer, he/she will just nod and exchange pleasantries (or ask camera questions).

Well, at this juncture of the game, reshaping means starting our own local companies, and Im already running one, have no time to run another. If I was running a store that had a huge theft rate, guess what, Id have bag checks too.

All Kroger groceries here have a sticker on the front door--"check all large bags in at service desk". They also have security people, cameras, and a scanner at the exits.

Like I said, I dont like it at all, but its a very very minor hassle. Kinda like the same argument many rec riders make when they wanna take their bike into a store. Lock the thing up outside, it isnt difficult.

Federal buildings make the US look like 1930's germany all over again, I deal with that too, has nothing to do with terrorism either.

Companies have every right to protect their property. Want changes, dont shop there, open your own store, or start with local govt and attempt to get laws changed(good luck). I cant see laws of possession and property being changed over bag checks.

We all need ot face the fact that we are a serious minority, until that changes this is almost an impossible battle. Im one of maybe 50 people in a city of 1.1 million plus that is car-free and does everything by bike regularly, I do not expect special treatment. That would be as unrealistic as it gets.

Want changes, dont shop there, open your own store, or start with local govt and attempt to get laws changed(good luck). I cant see laws of possession and property being changed over bag checks.

As I said before, I DO refuse to shop places that won't let me keep my property with me, and I let them know why. I was also one of the people who writes in whenever new security procedures are considered at our historic sites (e.g. Parliament Hill), and so far the public reaction has defeated most new security measures.

We all need ot face the fact that we are a serious minority, until that changes this is almost an impossible battle. Im one of maybe 50 people in a city of 1.1 million plus that is car-free and does everything by bike regularly, I do not expect special treatment. That would be as unrealistic as it gets.

Yes, we are a minority. BUT, history (at least in Canada) has shown that if minoritys make a big enough fuss, they get more rights than the non-minorities. :) However, if enough of us were to complain about anything and everything and demand more rights for cyclists at every turn, that would probably give us a bad name and do nothing for the cause. However, having some significant tax benefits/incentives for regularly cycling/being car free/car light would be a nice turn of events...

Geez, the Kroger here just lets me wheel my trailer in and fill it up and then leave... okay, I pay before the last part. If they'd call me on it, I'd just tell them it was my personal shopping cart and ask them how much one of theirs costs (it ain't cheap, believe me)... never had the slightest problem, and the clerks on Sunday mornings all know me and comment if I show up sans trailer.

Yes, we are a minority. BUT, history (at least in Canada) has shown that if minoritys make a big enough fuss, they get more rights than the non-minorities. :) However, if enough of us were to complain about anything and everything and demand more rights for cyclists at every turn, that would probably give us a bad name and do nothing for the cause. However, having some significant tax benefits/incentives for regularly cycling/being car free/car light would be a nice turn of events...

Already have tax benefits, and plenty of rights, I have no problems at all. Everybody being "me me me its all about me" is part of the problem.

...Kroger here just lets me wheel my trailer in and fill it up...

That's cool, what kind of trailer is it?

http://www.bikerev.com/pg3.cfm

Love this thing... got it on ebuy for about 120$... perfect for shopping, I've even hauled bales of hay in it when I was planting grass. Pretty much eliminated the car in town (I hate hate hate in city driving), except for when I buy a bunch of old bikes, which happens a lot. Haven't figured out how to haul those across the river yet (riding on most of the bridges here outlawed, you have to dismount and walk).