I'll repost what I posted on another site...This messenger was apparently strolling along whistling and being very pleasant when this crazed driver screams past cursing and throwing things at her. Being a good citizen she calmly picks up the trash the psycopath has ejected from his vehicle and hands it to him. Being crazy this guy becomes enraged, throws a cup of coffee on the innocent meesenger then jumps out of the vehicle catches her by surprise and during the course of roughing her up she accidently scratches his car which further enrages him.
If you want the truth ask the driver what happened then average the stories becuase as someone in the FG/SS forum put it, this one doesn't pass the smell test.
I'll repost what I posted on another site..."Anyone who cannot distinguish the difference between property crime and violent crime or otherwise understand why the law draws a distinct line between the two has a serious problem that should be addressed.
These persons would do well to take a half hour with a mirror, spend that time thinking of family, friends and others close to them and what they mean. At the end of thirty minutes of true reflection on the persons closest to you, stop. Reflect for a moment on your car now, and what it means to you. If this hasn't helped, seek professional counsel."
I'm just asking, are you a low-life, or not? If you aren't, then you'd understand that difference and respect it despite a strangers provocation. If you are scum, you do what this fellow did.
BTW RVA, how does reposting a fantasy you had on another site show anything? I have an advantage I realize, having spoken to one of the persons involved in person but still, you really believe what you typed? What I mean is the messenger was not strolling about la-la-la and if you could read sarcasm (what you should expect from a messenger eh?) you'd know by reading her account, without having spoken to her that of course she wasn't pleasant when she gave his litter back to him, why would she be? This means she should be physically attacked? Apparantly so because he dumped 2 cups of coffe on her and jumped out and wrestled her against his car. That's an eyewitness account of the first confrontation.
You don't need an eyewitness for the second confrontation you've got the photos. After leaving and re-parking elsewhere he found her, approached from behind and attacked.
As for finding out what happened by averaging the stories told, that's easy. First remember that (when read objectively and not with the fantasy lens that fell out your cereal box) the messengers account is backed by eyewitnesses who remained to tell the police what happened. No she wasn't nice, neither are you, advocating that physical violence is justified when someone corrects your bad behavior. What else?
- The 2 coffees are quite visible on the messenger. That's assault. You think tossing a beef patty into a stopped vehicle with a door open is assault so I think you'd agree 2 hot coffees is assault. Naturally the assualt is justified, after all, she'd threatened him with refuse.
- He left after a scuffle and returned with the intent of assault, she did not goad him further after he'd left, unless she is telepathic. I don't think she is, maybe?
- He had to be subdued by bystanders that made an effort not to hurt him. He turned on them in the end and made threats, pushing some.
- Look at his face.
- Look at hers.
The "average" between their stories is pretty easy to find objectively even without a direct report from the assailant.
Don't read all this RVA, the important part is in the first paragraph. If you think his behavior is "pompous", that's the word you used, and justified by a scratch on his car then you are right messed up.
I would've thought it was just macho bullcorn you found in your ass, what you typed, why I asked, but hey, you want to defend it, good luck defending a stance that is disrespectful of the personal well-being of your fellow human, morally reprehensible to the society that established the laws we're governed by and indicative of serious self-respect issues in it's champion.
rvabiker
01-30-06, 08:35 PM
Let me put it this way Sam, since you insist on being so pretentous ("low-life"? seriously?). If you are riding around me when I am driving and I (stupidly) toss something out of my car and you pick it up and throw it back in my car then I am liable to beat your ass. That said the info you keep posting on here, becuase you obviously are well connected is new to the dialogue and not included in the original post. If he did indeed park somewhere and come back for the messenger then he deserves a good ass kicking himself. I am responding only to what I know and that is only what is posted here previous to each of my posts.
ghettocruiser
01-30-06, 09:15 PM
when I am driving and I (stupidly) toss something out of my car and you pick it up and throw it back in my car then I am liable to beat your ass.
I don't get it. If you do this (and I don't think most emotionally stable people would) then you'd probably end up in the back seat of a police car. You say Sam's pretentious for assuming that you'd quickly escalate a petty property crime into an assault, then explicitly state that you would.
Unless you can find a lawyer who can convince a judge that a burger bun is a potentially dangerous weapon (maybe in the hands of Chuck Norris?) then you're gonna be in trouble.
It seems an unsettling number of people share this hanging-by-a-thread demeanor.
rvabiker
01-30-06, 09:48 PM
As I stated before tossing trash back into a vehicle constitutes assault and if you think you could get away with throwing litter back into the open window (or opening their door and throwing trash in) and just sroll away, no harm no foul then I would imagine Toronto must be the most non-confrontational place on earth(not that thats a bad thing). The messer was stupid to do what she did and then think thats where it would end.
And btw, I never said I'd escalate it as far as the driver did, just that she should expect the driver would do what he did and more before she creates an unstable situation.
DerekU2
01-31-06, 07:53 AM
So it's been a couple days... does anyone have this, um, *gentleman's* name? I would think he'd be quite embarassed to have his picture all over the Internet... and aparently the front page of the Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1138661412479&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home)
ajay677
01-31-06, 08:19 AM
As I stated before tossing trash back into a vehicle constitutes assault
That's a stretch. Assault involves intentionally applying or threatening to apply physical force to another person. I guess one would have to examine the intent of the messenger. Did she intend to strike the driver of the car with food? On the other hand, did the driver of the vehicle intend to strike the messenger with hot coffee? Did he intend to strike her with his hands? Did he leave the scene, return with a weapon and intentionally threaten the messenger, the photographer and other bystanders?
ghettocruiser
01-31-06, 08:30 AM
Wouldn't enough force have to be applied to potentially cause injury? Can a burger bun really do that?
Is tapping someone on the shoulder an assault-charge-in-the-making where you live?
ajay677
01-31-06, 08:52 AM
Wouldn't enough force have to be applied to potentially cause injury? Can a burger bun really do that?
Is tapping someone on the shoulder an assault-charge-in-the-making where you live?
Telling someone you're going to punch them in the nose is assault. Assault does not have to involve physical contact, only the threat of physical contact/harm. Of course, assault also includes striking another person, directly or indirectly. For example, if I punch you in the nose or spit on you or throw a cup of urine or feces on you - all examples of assault.
Jalopy
01-31-06, 09:11 AM
Telling someone you're going to punch them in the nose is assault. Assault does not have to involve physical contact, only the threat of physical contact/harm. Of course, assault also includes striking another person, directly or indirectly. For example, if I punch you in the nose or spit on you or throw a cup of urine or feces on you - all examples of assault.
In strictly legal terms, yes, these things all may be considered assault. However, I think the point that is being made is, in reality, tossing a hamburger at someone and physically shoving/hitting someone, while potentially both "assaults", are not the same and nobody with a lick of common sense would equate them.
From my point of view, anyway...
Jalopy
EnigManiac
01-31-06, 09:20 AM
I didn't see this thread before I started a new thread about the same incident. My post in the other thread (Psycho Motorist Attacks Courier), however, may contain information and links from the courier herself and other forums. Sorry for the double thread.
Motorist Vs Courier (Toronto)
"Hello all! I am the girl in the pics. My name is Leah and although I am a courier, I was WALKING my bike up Agusta when the incident took place. He was driving and opened his door (while driving) and yelling profanities he threw his beef patty on a bun out of his door. I walked over to his car, and right or wrong, I opened the door and "gave" him back his food (which he MUST have dropped by accident!) He then lost it, and jumped out of his car and threw 2 large Timmies at meand then grabbed me by my helmet and tried to toss me around a bit.It was at that point that my bike lock key (that I wear on a bracelet around my wrist) scratched his car. I have read all the postings about people sympathetic to the car driver due to the expense of repairing the scratch but sorry folks, i doubt that it will cost him anything to repair as it was a 1.2cm mark in the clearcoat only(did not damage the paint) but regardless a scratch none the less. Then with some "encouraging" from some helpfull bystanders he got in his car and drove away...or so I thought! People were comming up to me and saying that I should have him charged but at that point I just figured I had made my anti-littering point and and eye for and eye with the coffee shower, I mean I did throw that patty right. But just as I was getting on my bike to ride home he came running back and thats when the photos start. He had driven half a block and decided that the scratch was worthy of a more thorough beating I guess. Now for a bit of clarity on a couple of things... The blonde girl is his girlfriend...she also makes a pretty good shield from an angry mob! I was NOT punching anyone! especially not with keys in my hand! I was just trying to save my bike (I just built it a week ago!!) And as for the police charging him.... He took off in his car as soon as he heard the sirens....they chased him down but it is not a crime to leave the scene. They were going to charge him with a variety of things including assult with a weapon x2, mischief x2, aggravated assult, etc, but the police informed me that if I went ahead and placed those charges then they would have to charge me with mischeif for the scratch. So in the interests of good karma (and my own sanity) I have opted to "let it go" and allow the universe to repay this angermanagement case in its own way. And finally to those who say that i must have had a sudden case of self ritousness in regard to littering.....YOU ARE WRONG! I hate littering and NEVER do> In fact I am constantly picking up litter and make my son pick up litter at the park. I just feel that it is such a fixable issue in the world today. If everyone would not throw their own piece of litter then there would be none!! What a concept eh!? enjoy the beautiful winter riding!" Mirrored from this forum page.
slagjumper
01-31-06, 09:42 AM
As a kid I learned that it was wrong to litter and wimpy/wrong to fight a "girl". Not sure about how throwing food into a car is necessarily assault. For example if the food merely lands on an unoccupied passenger seat. It could be property damage.
Pretty sure that if I walk up to your car, and break off your mirror, and you hit me, that you’d be guilt of assault and I would be guilty of damaging property.
Now if you go around doing these sorts of things you might get someone who cant control themselves and take a swing or squeeze off a few rounds.
TimHorton
01-31-06, 10:37 AM
So it's been a couple days... does anyone have this, um, *gentleman's* name? I would think he'd be quite embarassed to have his picture all over the Internet... and aparently the front page of the Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1138661412479&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home)
I smiled when I saw this on the front page of The Toronto Star today. Mainly because I read about this several days ago on this forum.
Forget the cops, this is the best punishment he could get. Can you imagine how embarassed he must be now? What about his kids, parents and employer?
He needs to get help.
ajay677
01-31-06, 10:59 AM
I smiled when I saw this on the front page of The Toronto Star today. Mainly because I read about this several days ago on this forum.
Forget the cops, this is the best punishment he could get. Can you imagine how embarassed he must be now? What about his kids, parents and employer?
He needs to get help.
Hopefully, he's crawled under a rock. Unfortunately he's just as likely to be revelling in his '15 minutes of fame'. "Yahh! Dude! I'm the tough guy on the front page of the newspaper. I'm, like, famous, eh."
genec
01-31-06, 11:05 AM
Hopefully, he's crawled under a rock. Unfortunately he's just as likely to be revelling in his '15 minutes of fame'. "Yahh! Dude! I'm the tough guy on the front page of the newspaper. I'm, like, famous, eh."
Yeah... "tough guy" beating up on girl messengers... oooh so tough.
I bet he gets a ration of cr@p from folks that see the pics.
rvabiker
01-31-06, 11:10 AM
Now if you go around doing these sorts of things you might get someone who cant control themselves and take a swing or squeeze off a few rounds.
Thats exactly my point. When the messenger took it upon herself to police the mean streets of toronto she should expect nothingless that an ass whipping. Not saying its right or that I would do it, just that its the least you can expect in 2006.
Peterpan1
01-31-06, 11:24 AM
"toronto she should expect nothingless that an ass whipping".
Actually one doesn't expect that in Toronto, it is changing though. I get the feeling there isn't any social situation that doesn't force you to the conclusion you ought to beat someone.
She personalized this situation first. If nobody is willing to laugh it off at some point, then things just keep getting worse. That applies equally to social do gooders and psychos. Apparently the cops laughed it off, but that may change with the front page coverage.
rvabiker
01-31-06, 11:33 AM
You ride around and toss trash back in to peoples cars then Do you really, seriously expect that you can do this and nothing will happen? If so then you are as dumb as you are naive. Lets say the driver was 100% wrong and should be exectued by the state, the messer is still an idiot for escalting the situation and stick around to be on the recieving end of the aforementioned beatdown.
ghettocruiser
01-31-06, 11:38 AM
Actually, alot of people do just that. They drive around throwing garbage out their cars. They rely on apathy and anonymity to protect them.
There's been an odd turn-around in the flow of this thread.
On the first page it was stated that if someone damaged my car, and I didn't confront them and did nothing about it, then I was being walked on.
But NOW, we have concluded that if someone defaces your community, you're looking for trouble if you confront them, and liable to get shot.
Why shouldn't we take reckless or piggish acts in our communities personally?
Is there really that big a gap between stuff we own individually and stuff we own together?
If someone dumps a load of garbage on my front yard, that's an attack on me... whereas if someone dumps a load of garbage in the park across the street, that's just life in the big city....
thdave
01-31-06, 11:41 AM
She could file for civil damages, couldn't she?
TRaffic Jammer
01-31-06, 11:50 AM
Well the last time, I was done in by a walk-by Beef Patty and Coco Bread assault from a girl I was laid up for 6 months and required three surgeries. I can't even look at the things now, nor can I stop dreaming about them. Think I should have jumped out and beat her down? I think so too...........
**note** this post is trying to illustrate just how ridiculous this twit looks after getting his ass caught on camera being I think quite possibly the dumbest, most in-need-of-help prick in the GTA. Hellllooooo anger management? While Kensington might be a free for all to some extents....I would never assume I could just launch something from my vehicle ... food or trash and NOT have someone say something.
soda
01-31-06, 11:53 AM
Sounds like she wasn't surprised that this was going to happen and knows that it was the wrong thing to do but it sounds like it was an instant decision without any thought. Had she had to walk a block she might have had time to think it completely through. It also seems like the guy's initial reaction was the same; an instant decision but he did have time to think about his assault for that short period of time that he drove away and then ran back.
As unfortunate of an incident as this is, I'm am happy that she is okay and that the dude made it to the front page of the paper and is now infamous. It certainly has opened up the discussion on this subject that many peopel may not have even thought about. This is all good.
jimmuter
01-31-06, 11:55 AM
As I stated before tossing trash back into a vehicle constitutes assault and if you think you could get away with throwing litter back into the open window (or opening their door and throwing trash in) and just sroll away, no harm no foul then I would imagine Toronto must be the most non-confrontational place on earth(not that thats a bad thing). The messer was stupid to do what she did and then think thats where it would end.
And btw, I never said I'd escalate it as far as the driver did, just that she should expect the driver would do what he did and more before she creates an unstable situation.
According to her story, he yelled at her and intentionally threw trash at her. What did he expect would happen? I agree that she shouldn't have opened his door, but I doubt she had a whole lot of options for confronting his "assault" (by your definition). Having my car door opened by someone I didn't know would freak me out, but I wouldn't jump out and beat the crap out of anyone, especially a woman.
SamHouston
01-31-06, 12:02 PM
You ride around and toss trash back in to peoples cars then Do you really, seriously expect that you can do this and nothing will happen? If so then you are as dumb as you are naive.
Expecting physical violence at any confrontation is not the norm in our society. Not even down south. I'd call it a symptom of a sick society if it were but it's not. People that live and think that way have a large help network to straighten them out, it has lots of assets at its disposal and these range from counseling to prison.
TRaffic Jammer
01-31-06, 12:04 PM
She's ok though... so it's all good.
Peterpan1
01-31-06, 12:08 PM
"nothing will happen"
Something will definetly happen. Whether the minimum is an ass whipping, a shooting, or whatever, probably depends on the number of people in the comunity who share your views.
I love it. The Star reported the incident fairly, both sides, etc... But the pictures they chose for the front page tell a totally different story. They chose all the men behaving badly pictures.
Let's get down to the serious stuff: What kind of bike is she riding?
genec
01-31-06, 12:15 PM
"nothing will happen"
Something will definetly happen. Whether the minimum is an ass whipping, a shooting, or whatever, probably depends on the number of people in the comunity who share your views.
I love it. The Star reported the incident fairly, both sides, etc... But the pictures they chose for the front page tell a totally different story. They chose all the men behaving badly pictures.
Let's get down to the serious stuff: What kind of bike is she riding?
SS/Fixie... and as far as the photos... there are none of her dumping his litter back into his car.
Cadd
01-31-06, 12:28 PM
The driver was an @sshole for throwing something out of a moving car......but at least it wasn't done to provoke anyone.
But she's a moron. She should have minded her own business. If I threw something out of my car and if someone throws it back at me on a bike, you better pray to god that you're not between my car & a parked car......I'll make damn sure you wouldn't be able to use your legs again.
She's a moron because doing something like that could get you killed instantly.....what if the dude has a gun? C'mon, is it worth it? Let the people in law enforcement do their job.....you do yours & deliver that package.
ghettocruiser
01-31-06, 12:57 PM
T If I threw something out of my car and if someone throws it back at me on a bike, you better pray to god that you're not between my car & a parked car......I'll make damn sure you wouldn't be able to use your legs again.
Dude if you're ever in hot water with the law, someone's lawyer might did this stuff up this as evidence.
Not good.
Daily Commute
01-31-06, 02:10 PM
. . . . If I threw something out of my car and if someone throws it back at me on a bike, you better pray to god that you're not between my car & a parked car......I'll make damn sure you wouldn't be able to use your legs again . . .
If you did that and killed the cyclist, that would be murder. I've argued that it's a really bad idea to "return" trash to a driver, but intentionally maiming a cyclist is something only a disgusting thug would advocate.
If a cyclist is intentionally rammed by a driver in NYC, at least the prosecutor will be able to subpoena this forum for your information.
SamHouston
01-31-06, 02:21 PM
If I threw something out of my car and if someone throws it back at me on a bike, you better pray to god that you're not between my car & a parked car......I'll make damn sure you wouldn't be able to use your legs again.
C'mon, you can do better than that! What you meant to say is you'd put the returned litter on the floorboard and wonder meekly why you can't be the person you are on the internet. Right?
GGDub
01-31-06, 02:39 PM
+1^^
except for me, my internet response would be unleashing a fury of Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks so strong that they'd rip a hole in the space-time continuum. Of course in reality, if I did throw a burger out my window in a fit of rage and had it returned to me then I'd probably realize I looked like a meathead and would quickly drive off.
rvabiker
01-31-06, 02:42 PM
I stand by my statement. The driver is a jackass and the messenger is a complete idiot. And you are absolutely wrong Sam. I know of nowhere in the world that you could get away with opening someones door and throwing their litter at them (do we honestly believe she gently laid it down on the floorboards?) with out the situation escalating to the point that someone could be seriously injured.
banerjek
01-31-06, 02:50 PM
I've sworn off Canada as much as possible after being forced to pay for refills at a 'timmie's' over 20 years ago....you canooks that frequent Tim Horton's should be getting free refills of that lousy swill passed off as coffee up north there.
You gotta watch those Canadians. 90% of the population is within 100 mi of the US border, undoubtedly preparing to invade. Fortunately, the CIA is aware and is undoubtedly taking appropriate countermeasures:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/ca.html
TRaffic Jammer
01-31-06, 02:52 PM
It's so we can steal cable..... and watch ALL the hockey games.
GGDub
01-31-06, 02:56 PM
for me, its the cheap smokes, eh?
SamHouston
01-31-06, 03:14 PM
I stand by my statement. The driver is a jackass and the messenger is a complete idiot. And you are absolutely wrong Sam. I know of nowhere in the world that you could get away with opening someones door and throwing their litter at them (do we honestly believe she gently laid it down on the floorboards?) with out the situation escalating to the point that someone could be seriously injured.
I see people argue in the streets every day without coming to blows, people in all walks of life. Cursing, shouting, arguing. What world do you live in? Who said she should get away with anything? It's a mischief charge or equivalent at the worst though, not anything that deserves a physical assault, not by a stretch here in the real world. He had the option of yelling, throwing his garbage back out, leaving (and not coming back to attack), stepping up like a real man and disposing of his waste properly or just keeping it in his car, any number of responses, instead he chose to attack, and then again a second time without further provocation.
I realize you're struggling to say "It's to be expected, not accepted." but the reality is it isn't to be expected, to do that is a form of acceptance. Believing that any part of what he did can be a-ok because he suffered a non-violent provocation, which I'm sure diminshed his already waning manhood, is wrong. People should be able to interact even angrily without an unreasonable fear that doing so places them outside the protection of law and society. That many are aware of this is called progress.
Citing the circumstances leading up to a crime as justification of the criminal act is a dangerous path to take. You may as well take into account the fact that they were prostitutes, and let Robert Pickton go free.
TRaffic Jammer
01-31-06, 03:18 PM
^^^^ +1 And WORD!!! ^^^^^
Any situation where one reacts violently requires a damned good reason to do so.
Someone grabbing at your wife/kid, trying to steal your ride, etc. Giving you back your uneaten patty, ah .... no.
scarry
01-31-06, 03:20 PM
Let me put it this way Sam, since you insist on being so pretentous ("low-life"? seriously?). If you are riding around me when I am driving and I (stupidly) toss something out of my car and you pick it up and throw it back in my car then I am liable to beat your ass.
Then you have my contempt. :mad:
scarry
01-31-06, 03:22 PM
As I stated before tossing trash back into a vehicle constitutes assault .
It's not assault and you are dangerous, seek help.
genec
01-31-06, 03:41 PM
And meanwhile from the southland... I just saw this:
Authorities Have Tough Time Catching Litterbugs In Act
People dumping trash or littering are rarely caught because authorities need to witness the littering to issue a citation.
San Diego police catch so few people littering, they don't even keep statistics.
Oceanside police issued three littering citations last year, according to 10News.
And countywide, the California Highway Patrol issued 777 citations in 2004.
So, who is helping to clean up the mess?
Probationers clean about 20 percent of the trash along freeways. Caltrans workers clean about 37 percent.
"There are times we clean a whole section and at the end of the day, as you're going in, there's already trash out there. It's a never-ending job," Caltrans worker Rudy Sanchez said.
Adopt-A-Highway program volunteers clean up 14 percent of freeway trash.
Businesses like Lars Construction have signed on to the program, but they say it's frustrating.
"(My crew) will clean a mile up the road, a mile back and when they are all done and it's clean. They will come back over the freeway and find more trash," said Jason Lars of Lars Construction.
Authorities said trash removal seems like an endless and thankless job, but it is worth it to keep San Diego clean.
The real interesting part of this story is the fact that the incident is like the flipside of a coin that's representative of society as a whole. You have the bloated consumer throwing his refuge out into the world, and the courier throwing it back into his 'world', ie: the confines of his SUV.
She can see the world view, but he's angry because his world was violated by the throwing of waste into his truck.
As Bill Hicks said "It's kinda base irony, but I like it."
The other interesting part is how the scenario was played out. There's no doubt throwing someones trash back into their car is potentially foolhardy, but here in my native Australia, it would not elicit reposnses like "he might have a gun" or "If I threw something out of my car and if someone throws it back at me on a bike, you better pray to god that you're not between my car & a parked car......I'll make damn sure you wouldn't be able to use your legs again."
Still, the advocate in me says good on her for showing him the other side of the coin, but I can't help but wonder in a different locale and a different gender of the courier, things could've got even uglier.
Peterpan1
01-31-06, 04:11 PM
"SS/Fixie... and as far as the photos... there are none of her dumping his litter back into his car."
Brand?
There are some pics of her moving him backwards. He still looks like the Psycho, but there are some photos where she looks less vicitmized.
closetbiker
01-31-06, 04:16 PM
Ok, can anyone help me here please? I'm a bit confused as to what has been claimed at the start of this.
The Toronto Star reported that the courier (Leah) was in the process of locking up her bike. A different post (apparently by Leah) says she was walking her bike.
In the pictures, Leah, is on the street side of the vehicle straddling her bike. It doesn't look like she is either locking up her bike or walking it.
What's the story?
All that said, I hardly see how it is relevent that cycling has anything to do with this. It's simply a story about a litterer and a citizen. There is no road dispute between cyclists and motorists here.
david.l.k
01-31-06, 04:32 PM
Now the best thing to do would be to quietly pick up the trash look at the guy and silently thank him for the oportunity to serve and to better develop my patience. He would feel so guilty after that. Even if not consciously it would naw away at his sub-conscious and he probably would be hesitant to litter again.
Keith99
01-31-06, 04:35 PM
The real interesting part of this story is the fact that the incident is like the flipside of a coin that's representative of society as a whole. You have the bloated consumer throwing his refuge out into the world, and the courier throwing it back into his 'world', ie: the confines of his SUV.
So any jerk has to be "bloated" and driving an SUV. The guy looks far from bloated. Crazy perhaps, but not bloated. Also Hool's post says he followed the guy back to his car to photograph the license plate and the guy opened his trunk and got out a bat. Sounds like a CAR not an SUV.
marqueemoon
01-31-06, 04:40 PM
an inappropriate action with an inappropriate reaction, and so on...
rvabiker
01-31-06, 06:05 PM
Sam, you coninually misread/manipulate my posts until you have something to talk about. I never said all arguments/confrontation always come to physical violence. I said that if you do what she did you should expect what she got. She is an idiot. There. Said and done. Perhaps my world view is shifted because of my enviroment but I know that if you open someones door in Richmond there's a chance that the barrel of a gun is the last thing you see.
If you confront someone you should expect things will escalate to violence. That way you will never be caught off guard. She looked like she expected him to meekly drive a way and was surprised when he didn't. He was an ass and she was an stupid.
Cadd
01-31-06, 06:13 PM
Dude if you're ever in hot water with the law, someone's lawyer might did this stuff up this as evidence.
Not good.
But in reality, I wouldn't toss something out of my car. I hate it when people do......when I'm driving and the smuck in front of me decides to toss something out of his moonroof, it hits my car. If the passenger decides to toss garbage out the window, I may run over it and cause damage to my car.
I would not do to others what I don't want done to myself.
If you did that and killed the cyclist, that would be murder. I've argued that it's a really bad idea to "return" trash to a driver, but intentionally maiming a cyclist is something only a disgusting thug would advocate.
If a cyclist is intentionally rammed by a driver in NYC, at least the prosecutor will be able to subpoena this forum for your information.
It's not murder....you know the Bull$hit laws that we have.....it'll be just a slap on the wrist for the driver. The driver can easily say, I was going to double park and did not realize that a guy on a bicycle was next to him....."he was in my blind spot!". With the bull$hit laws we have, most drivers get away with it. To be honest, if I want to muder someone, I won't use a gun or a knife, I'll just use my car and start crying and act like I'm in shock when the police & ambulance gets here. It's just sad that the law doesn't see a 4,000lbs vehicle as an assault weapon.
It just pisses me off that when a cyclists is killed by a driver, the charge is just as light as a jay walking citation.
PS - it'll be ok, if I was brought in for questioning by a prosecuter.....I'm innocent remember? I can always prove my whereabouts (i.e. at work, training at the dojo, having family dinner, etc.). So no problem there.
C'mon, you can do better than that! What you meant to say is you'd put the returned litter on the floorboard and wonder meekly why you can't be the person you are on the internet. Right?
Exactly! :)
chipcom
01-31-06, 07:03 PM
Let me put it this way Sam, since you insist on being so pretentous ("low-life"? seriously?). If you are riding around me when I am driving and I (stupidly) toss something out of my car and you pick it up and throw it back in my car then I am liable to beat your ass.
Then you have my contempt. :mad:
He'd just have my laughter - tough guy, eh... :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Bekologist
01-31-06, 07:13 PM
Can Canadians carry pepper spray? I'm NOT condoning any of the actions leading up to the incident, but this is exactly the type of confrontation that could be defused with a dose of the pepper spray once the driver was out of the auto attacking the cyclist.
Dog-n-driver spray is my at-the-ready defense for this type of situation....