Touring - Which lowrider front rack -- Blackburn or Tubus?

Thanks to those who helped me decide on a set of panniers. I have ordered a pair of Ortlieb Sportpacker Plus (front) panniers and am now turning my attention to a front rack.

Here is the shortlist:

Tubus Duo Lowrider (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacturer=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Racks&ProdID=5360019413&UberCat=0) -- £52; 490g

Blackburn Custom Lowrider (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacturer=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Racks&ProdID=5300001495&UberCat=0) -- £24; 525g

I quite like the elegance of the Duo, however, Blackburn is half the price.

Any thoughts? My favourite is the Surly Nice Front Rack (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacturer=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Racks&ProdID=5360007090&UberCat=0), but at £80, I don't think I can justify it. It has the shelf on top which I think would be handy on occasion, but I doubt I will be carrying a tent or sleeping bag very often.

Do these racks normally come with the bolts to attach them to the bike?

Have a look at http://www.tubus.net/eng/produkte/lowrider/Duo.php if you haven't done already. I guess you've checked already that your forks have all the necessary eyelets? Also, the Duo needs a specific fork dimension to get the panniers sitting level. If the Duo won't work, the Tara is as good, but doesn't look quite as neat.

Racks normally come with standard fittings that will work with most bikes.

Spending a bit extra on a rack is money well spent IMO. Spending a bit extra on panniers isn't IMO. So you've perhaps done this the wrong way round - expensive panniers and now you want a cheapo rack!

The Blackburn Lowrider is fine. The Tubus is good, certainly better than the Blackburn. Quality and durability are reflected in the price. If you don't have all the fittings and plan to use U-bolts or something then there's little point in investing in a quality rack like the Tubus.

Thanks for the suggestions and the link. I saw the Ergo but think the Duo will suit in my case.



Spending a bit extra on a rack is money well spent IMO. Spending a bit extra on panniers isn't IMO. So you've perhaps done this the wrong way round - expensive panniers and now you want a cheapo rack!

I didn't say I wanted a cheapo rack. I am simply looking for a good rack that suits my needs. As for panniers, given the volume and frequency of rain where I live, waterproof panniers are the only thing that makes sense to me.



If you don't have all the fittings and plan to use U-bolts or something then there's little point in investing in a quality rack like the Tubus.

My bike has the necessary brazeons.

Decisions, decisions. . .

If you are a first-time tourist and are not sure that you are going to do a lot of bike touring maybe chose the cheaper rack. If you are planning to do a long tour on your first trip or are going to travel when the road conditions are rough, i.e. gravel roads, cobbles, etc. maybe start with the stronger Tubus. I think front racks with a hoop over the front wheel are inherently stronger, but I own the Blackburn Low-rider you are considering.

I used some stainless steel capscrews to attach the rack to the mid fork braze-ons (with the caphead on the inside of course) that I picked up at a marine store (5mm x 60 mm I believe). The only issue I had with the rack was that after a few weeks it had rotated a bit (around the braze-on) so that the front had dropped about ~ 1cm and was not level anymore. The little clamp on the diagonal part of the rack that attaches to the fender eyelet had slipped a bit. I carried about 5 kg in each front pannier.

I went through a similar decision-making process recently. In the end, I chose Tubus Nova for the front and Tubus Cosmo for the rear. These are deluxe stainless steel racks, which is reflected on their elegant looks and highish price.

The main runners-up were Blackburn Lowrider for the front and Blackburn Expedition 1 for the rear. I very much like the 'inverted U' hoop on the Lowrider (probably invented by Jim Blackburn himself), and was pleased to find in the Nova a stainless-steel rack that incorporates the same idea. I regard it as an important safety feature.

The Blackburns are by no means 'cheapo' racks. They probably would have served me, too, very well. The stainless-steel Tubuses are more expensive, but they also perhaps have the liability of being somewhat ostentatious.

The Surly Nice is an interesting design, which may come in handy if you absolutely must maximize your carrying capacity. However, I don't want a platform above the wheel, as that's where my headlight is. I don't want to have the lights on the handlebars, as it's getting crowded enough there already with the cycle computer and the HRM.

IMHO, high-quality panniers are a good investment. They have to withstand a lot of wear and tear on a tour.

The Surly racks are pretty much exactly what I want in a set of racks. Too bad they cost about twice as much as is reasonable.

Go for the Tubus then!

I live in Scotland where we too have plenty of rain, but am happier with my Karrimors than my Ortlieb as waterproofness aside, they're just better panniers with better attachments. Take Ortleibs down bumpy roads and those things flap like hell unless you bungee them down (makes the quick attach/detach latches irrelevant as a selling point if you need to unstrap a bungee first). Unfortunately the Ortleib-worshipers must have got to you! Ortleibs have durable attachments, that's about the only good thing they have going for them other than the fact that they're waterproof.

Lotum - the funny thing with some high quality panniers such as Ortlieb though is that their most durable panniers are not the most expensive ones. The Ortleib 'plus' range is more expensive than the standard, but the facts that they (the plus) are fairly thinly laminated on the inside and the material is thinner mean they're not gonna last as long. But they look nicer. My roller plus panniers delaminated after only a few months of use and picked up a tear all too easily. That's not quality in my eyes. As soon as Ortleibs stop being waterproof they are s**t panniers IMHO!

Thanks everyone for your input.


If you are a first-time tourist and are not sure that you are going to do a lot of bike touring maybe chose the cheaper rack. If you are planning to do a long tour on your first trip or are going to travel when the road conditions are rough, i.e. gravel roads, cobbles, etc. maybe start with the stronger Tubus.

I already have four tours planned this year; the longest is 8 days and the others four to five days each.

I believe the Surly is an ideal rack as well, CdCf. I like the idea of putting a headlamp on the front of it, as well. But yeah on the price being too high.

Go for the Tubus then!

I live in Scotland where we too have plenty of rain, but am happier with my Karrimors than my Ortlieb as waterproofness aside, they're just better panniers with better attachments. Take Ortleibs down bumpy roads and those things flap like hell unless you bungee them down (makes the quick attach/detach latches irrelevant as a selling point if you need to unstrap a bungee first). Unfortunately the Ortleib-worshipers must have got to you! Ortleibs have durable attachments, that's about the only good thing they have going for them other than the fact that they're waterproof.

Lotum - the funny thing with some high quality panniers such as Ortlieb though is that their most durable panniers are not the most expensive ones. The Ortleib 'plus' range is more expensive than the standard, but the facts that they (the plus) are fairly thinly laminated on the inside and the material is thinner mean they're not gonna last as long. But they look nicer. My roller plus panniers delaminated after only a few months of use and picked up a tear all too easily. That's not quality in my eyes. As soon as Ortleibs stop being waterproof they are s**t panniers IMHO!

So you know about rain, then? :)

Interesting what you say about the fabric not being as durable. The idea of them flopping around is a bit off-putting!

When your roller plus panniers delaminated, did you return them for a replacement?

Lotum I had a look at the Tubus Nova. Velly nice! Here, it is the same price as the Surly Nice. I hadn't considered the strength advantage of the inverted U, but I think that is worth considering.

When your roller plus panniers delaminated, did you return them for a replacement?

Nope, I was mid-tour in Tanzania. Wasn't really an issue then and since they are my front panniers I rarely put anything in there that I need to keep dry. I don't actually know if I got duff panniers or if that is just normal for the plus panniers.

The panniers don't flop as such since they have a rigid back, but they flap against the rack. Only on rough roads, but I found it unbearable. Also, when they do flap, the bottom attachment can and does come undone so the pannier comes loose. That's the reason I prefer Karrimor panniers, since there is no possibilty of that happening; but then the buggers went bust! That's actually a real shame.

Thanks for the info. I don't anticipate being on any rough roads, perhaps the odd cobble here and there but only briefly. Hmmm.

Amaferanga, I know about rain, too (and about sleet & snowfall!). When I said that IMHO, high-quality panniers are a good investment, I was just trying to counter your somewhat too generalized sweeping statement. I didn't bother to elaborate, as Lolly Pop had already committed himself. But the "Ortlieb worshippers" at least didn't get to me... I'm a Carradice man, and I'm still convinced that high-quality panniers are a good investment.

I wouldn't worry about the Ortleib attachments too much, Lolly, I've gone hellbent for leather down thousands of vertical feet of descent over rattletrap gravel fire roads and the like, it's real tough to pop an Ortleib off the rack! (it can happen, if you don't have the bottom bracket snug up on the rack stay.)

I haven't checked out the rigidity of the split racks, but I'd pick a front rack with the 'U' framing over the tire, they just seem more solid.

no competion Tubus all the way.

I've toured for many years using Blackburn racks without a failure. There's also no denying that Tubus racks are excellent. But, I also have to say, that the Surly are indeed very "Nice Racks", in spite of the (high) cost. (Here in the states they can be had for $90 each at Alfred E. Bike (http://aebike.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=30&Category=84&Brand=405&type=T)). These Surly's are extremely well-made and heavy-duty, and the brazed-on, threaded fitting on the front of the rack is perfect for mounting a light. What I like about the front platform is that I've gotten rid of my handlebar bag and mounted a small-to-medium trunk pack onto the platform, lowering the center of gravity and increasing stability and improving handling tremendously. It also makes the cockpit much less cluttered and open. Front panniers can be mounted high (when extra clearence is needed) and low.

Here are several pics of the Surley Nice Racks (http://www.daystarbotanicals.com/bicycles/index_exp.html) installed front and rear--ready for my 4-month tour beginning May 14.

I hope this helps and have the tour of your life!

Ted Phelps
Central Valley, California

Blackburn pretty much invented the bike rack as far as a rack desinged around luggage attachment is concerned. They did design the low rider rack. Funny they have given up trying to sell them over here, they aren't on their site, and when I emailed them about it, they responded as though it was the misty past.

I used the BB rack front and back on my two week tour, and they are very tough. As well as using the back rack every day for 20 years. That tubus thing is no competition for a Blackburn, because if one was planing a really horrid moonscape like trek, who would pick that question mark thingy.

If I was buying the gear you are after for my bike here is where I would spend the money:

- Jandd or Surly front rack with a decent ledge on it. I missed this space more than anything about my rack or bag system. A front mounted light is great because the handlebars are already crammed with stuff.

- Any reasonable quality rear rack, you can pick them up in bomber qality for about 15 bucks.

- If the moeny is tight, I would have bought regular bags and used stay dry liners or waterproof stuff sacks. That Otlieb stuff is overpriced and not easy to configure. However if I did have a lot of money I would buy the Otlied to see what the fuss is about. I got about a week of torrentail rain and headwinds on my tour, and nothing in my crap cordura bags got wet. Even if water did get into the bags, most of the stuff in there isn't adversely affected. It would be miserable to go to bed in a wet sleeping bag, but that isn't stored in the bags anyway. Wet clothes would not be fun. I carried so few of them keeping them dry was no problem.

I know only too well that the UK is different I used to rock climb there. Over here in Canada, people make like they want to call the police if you go climbing on a rainy day. Where I lived in UK if one let the rain stop one, one would never do anything. About 2 years after I left, it rainned every day for over a year in my hometown. So I know you guys are serious about the rain. I still don't see Otliebs being necesarry.

I am going to look into making bag covers just to make things doubly waterproof. They are really easy to pull on and off.

"I quite like the elegance of the Duo"

I know you would never actually compromise your performance for "elegance", but it is hard not to be influenced. This is, however, the kind of thing one can ponder with computer in hand before setting off. Once you load on your bags you will never see the rack again. In general I try to leave the rack on the bike, and even if you remove them who cares what it looks like. All you will care about is whether they work, or heaven forbid, break.

I've tried many racks and I've found none better than a Tubus.

This site has very good prices on Tubus and Ortleib items. Even after shipping they are cheaper than Wiggle. I've ordered from them several times and have never had a problem.

As far as my searching has gone they are the cheapest online shop in Europe. They also have an excellent selection.

http://www.bike-components.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=282_217&products_id=1491

Excellent! Thanks everyone for the suggestions, and the photos of your bike are just awesome Ted! Wow, lovely.

The more I look the more I like the Surly. I had contacted Alfred E Bike for shipping costs on the Surly -- about $35 they estimated. At $90 + 35 it makes it cheaper to buy from the states than to purchase from a UK vendor. Not sure about import duties, however.

That German link has excellent prices, you are right Ziemas.

Thanks again everyone. I am in no rush here so I will ponder a bit more. lol

I wouldn't worry about the Ortleib attachments too much, Lolly, I've gone hellbent for leather down thousands of vertical feet of descent over rattletrap gravel fire roads and the like, it's real tough to pop an Ortleib off the rack! (it can happen, if you don't have the bottom bracket snug up on the rack stay.)

I haven't checked out the rigidity of the split racks, but I'd pick a front rack with the 'U' framing over the tire, they just seem more solid.

I too have used Ortleibs for many years and if the bottom bracket is snug then there is little chance of them coming off. I also used Karrimors for about 20 odd years and I find it strange that one can put to one side the fact that they are not waterproof. To pay a large sum of money for panniers and then find enclosed a plastic sack to use in order to keep your contents dry is a bit off-putting to say the least.
Ortieb make quality panniers and the Classic series would be my choice.

That tubus thing is no competition for a Blackburn, because if one was planing a really horrid moonscape like trek, who would pick that question mark thingy.

That "question mark thingy" is undoubtedly tougher than the Blackburn low-rider. I know someone that cycled london-cape town with the Tubus Duo without problem. They are tough. Tougher and better designed than the Blackburn.

If I was looking for a good lowrider I'd probably go for the Thorn lowrider - http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm. Note the weight limit of 18kg per side (on asphalt) or 9kg per side on washboard type roads! The Blackburn would crumple under such weights.

For my first long tour, I used the Jandd Expedition and liked it, though I did not use the top platform nearly as much as I thought I would - it's pretty heavy, too. Since then, I've used a tubus tara that I borrowed from my brother. It's a great, stong rack.

If anyone is interested, I am selling a set of the Blackburn Custom lowriders on ebay right now. Nothing wrong with them - the Jannd came my way and I decided to use it, then I got the Tubus, so these have just been collecting dust.

Can anyone ring in with an opinion on Old Man Mountain Ultimate Lowrider front racks?

I too have used Ortleibs for many years and if the bottom bracket is snug then there is little chance of them coming off. I also used Karrimors for about 20 odd years and I find it strange that one can put to one side the fact that they are not waterproof. To pay a large sum of money for panniers and then find enclosed a plastic sack to use in order to keep your contents dry is a bit off-putting to say the least.
Ortieb make quality panniers and the Classic series would be my choice.

I still must disagree about the Ortlieb attachment - my experience is that even when it is snug it can still flip out. The plastic isn't rigid enough.

On the pannier issue - I'm not quite sure why you'd need waterproof panniers unless you ride in the rain most of the time. I wouldn't be touring if it was raining most of the time, that'd be miserable! A waterproof cover is no different from a waterproof jacket for people. If it's a beautiful sunny day you don't wear a waterproof jacket, but you might carry one around just incase it does rain.

It makes more sense anyway to pack your stuff in bags to keep things separate, so all you need to do with non-waterproof panniers is use plastic bags. If you put a hole in one of these you can get a new one (for free) and it doesn't render the only real selling point of your espensive (Ortlieb) panniers irrelevant.

I stand by my assertion that non-waterproof Ortliebs would be crap panniers! The stuff-sack design make them a real pain in the a**e if you need to get something from near the bottom. And its simply not possible to pack everything you might need access to ever at the top. Another issue I have with Ortliebs is that the durable range (the standard, not the plus) have a ridiculous glossy finish.

Karrimors and Carradice are miles better IMO.

Hi,

This is my first post.
Blackburns are not cheap racks. There was once a time when they were the ultimate standard. I used their expedition rear rack and the front low-rider. Jim Blackburn's low rider was a huge advance in bike touring. I love their NLA water bottle cages that take the large 1.5 liter water bottles store bought water comes in. I can't comment on whether quality has changed since the company was sold.
Touring bikes have changed though. With a lot of influence from MTBs and more dreams of rugged world tour expeditions rather then weekends to the sea.
So...in building my bombproof "expedition" world tourer I decided I wanted tubular steel racks because of the repairability factor. That is, I can silver braze a repair or splint in them myself if required. Such are the things imagined when one has to draw out planning when accumulating finances creeps along at a snail's pace.

I looked at the Gordon racks and the Tubus. I didn't find others at the time. Got the Tubus and am much happier with them then the Blackburn when heavily loaded. The question mark thingy works well and they install strongly. Carry spare mounting bolts.
The big thing I noticed was that there was less tail wagging with the Tubus then the Blackburn in the rear. Although the bikes were different too. One thing though, the tubular metal racks can be crimped so be careful in that regard.

The Surly rack looks good. I would probably add another ten pounds on that platform though, which is not good. Could be nice for the dinner groceries bought at the end of the days trip.

Whatever happened to free will? There isn't any need to add stuff just because one has the space. But space gives one more carry options, or options to take on bulk that doesn't necesarilly weigh all that much. Best of all possible worlds would be low bulk and low weight, but that can relate to your physical size also. I'm 6'1", they don't size the racks by your body size yet almost all the gear ends up larger. And if one is trying to go economically it can also affect the size of stuff.

I'm not dissing the Tubus rack by suggesting it isn't an upgrade from the Blackburn. They themselves mention it is for medium loads. I don't see Balckburn racks blowing up on the road with medium loads.

I agree with amaferanga's earlier comment about Ortleib's flapping about. I used them on the corrugated desert roads in Australia and had to use wire and bungees to keep them in place, so they're expensive and then you have to improvise with them. I had Tubus racks as well on that trip, so maybe it was the combination of rack and pannier that was bad. The disc brakes made things awkward as well - I had to have special little brackets made to join the rear rack to the frame, and after a while the bouncing about on the tracks was too much and they broke - not what you want to happen in the middle of nowhere. Have a look at www.red-line.moonfruit.com to see some pics of the bike set-up I had in Australia.

I own both my problem " for the front Tara and Custom low rider" was the number of bikes I have rack on and the switchout of 700c and 26inch racks. It get expensive and they were blowing out Blackburn which are no longer made at $5.00 with $9.00 shipping - so I bought several.

back in the late 1970s the hurricane island (me) outward bound school was running 3 week long cycling expeditiom courses. as a graduate in 1979 of an effective cycling course & since 1973 a member of bostons charles river wheelmen i was an experienced vehicular cyclist. for this course made some modifications to my 1975 raleigh super course mark 2 to use it for a fully loaded cycle camping trip, mainly when i had the bicycle repainted (i still have the bike). i had bosses brazed to the forks for backburn front racks (nothing else with the exceptionof bruce gordon was avaible at the time) & i had laced up a set of 40 spoke front wheels/48 spoke rear wheels on full section wired on rims. the school was gointo supply rear panneirs & a handlebar bag, which i still belive is a bad idea unless it is very lightly loaded, so i told the i would supply my own front panniers. i was carrying about 50 pounds of gear. the bike handled fine. i agree with john allen (a personal friend) that a db frame is too flevible for a touring bike. the raleigh has 531 straight gage man tubes. okay, so i may have not had experienced with the nice products (at frightfully expensive prices) the blackburn front & rear racks have served me well. i could afford this equipment much easier when i was still living at home & did not have to work for a living. for that reason it makes sense to buy quality gear & hang on to it. i only had the front racks on the bike that one summer but i kept the havier wheels on the bike through december. i as riding with john allen when i got a flat & he put a picture of fixing it in the second edition of glenns which he edited & you can see inthe photo that rear whell has lots of spokes. i also feel a touring should have fenders & raleigh did not make bikes with silly clearances some manufactures pursue. i hane a aluminum frame klein team super, i do not know if fenders would fit on that bike, but i ould not put fenders on a criterium frame. i do have threaded holes for area rack on the klein.

I have a Gordon rack set and Beckman bags made to fit them ,
veterans of 25 years of use .

but Brits would get Brit Bags and those German/China produced Tubus things easier.

Subsequent buy of a used Koga Miyata WTR, came equipped with Tubus ergo/logo pair

rather overkill for a grocery run, but those seem OK , too.

Blackburn low+ a BB MTF rack, and you can use the other rack
above the wheel instead of the hoop.
been there too, have the tailwind panniers to show for it.

There are China Clones of BB racks now,those are sold at low cost.

How well will the Ortlieb attachment system work with either rack Lolly Pop links? It seems that dual bars on both racks would interfere with the Ortlieb closing system on their hooks. Anyone here used either racks with Ortliebs?

I personally use the Blackburn MTF-1 rack with a shelf and find it works very well for me. Less expensive than the Surly or Jandd front racks with platforms, but very solid and well built.

It can be hard for frugal types to part with the extra money. I've gone both ways, and am happiest with the higher quality route, coupled with finding a little extra work income, and wasting less money on unnecessary or meaningless or unrewarding purchases. You can usually find ways of saving or earning enough to cover the extra cost.

Gordon racks are significantly better made (stronger, better finish, better designs, more rigid, lighter within type) than any others I've tried (incl. Tubus, Blackburn, Jandd, IRD, and others).

It feels so much better to have the quality. And not just for the aesthetic or psycholgical satisfaction. Also for the functional advantages.

I also found that lowriders are much less desirable than platform types. The advantages of lower weight/cg are often overplayed or inflated. And the disadvantages are often underplayed or ignored.

It's great to be able to carry a daypack on the platform instead of a handlebar bag on the bars.

Have a look at Heinz Stücke's chosen setups over the years.

Or, go one of the more-minimalist routes.

In any case, strongly recommend trying out the quality aproach. It's so much better to go or to live uncompromised.

Thanks to those who helped me decide on a set of panniers. I have ordered a pair of Ortlieb Sportpacker Plus (front) panniers and am now turning my attention to a front rack.

Here is the shortlist:

Tubus Duo Lowrider (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacturer=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Racks&ProdID=5360019413&UberCat=0) -- £52; 490g

Blackburn Custom Lowrider (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacturer=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Racks&ProdID=5300001495&UberCat=0) -- £24; 525g

I quite like the elegance of the Duo, however, Blackburn is half the price.

Any thoughts? My favourite is the Surly Nice Front Rack (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacturer=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Racks&ProdID=5360007090&UberCat=0), but at £80, I don't think I can justify it. It has the shelf on top which I think would be handy on occasion, but I doubt I will be carrying a tent or sleeping bag very often.

Do these racks normally come with the bolts to attach them to the bike?

hi lollypop its been a while:) anyway i have the tubus duo and sportspacker plus there brilliant expensive enough but you get what you pay for . i toured in your part of the world last summer and recently done a few day's in the mourns with a neighbour of yours george 12345. good to see you back where have you all these tours planned.:thumb:

lollypop check out the thorn forum theres a guy selling his duo for 40 quid new but hurry it will be snapped up.

Lotum - the funny thing with some high quality panniers such as Ortlieb though is that their most durable panniers are not the most expensive ones. The Ortleib 'plus' range is more expensive than the standard, but the facts that they (the plus) are fairly thinly laminated on the inside and the material is thinner mean they're not gonna last as long. But they look nicer. My roller plus panniers delaminated after only a few months of use and picked up a tear all too easily.

must respond--my original pair of rear Pluses were bought in 1993 or 94 I believe and I have used them pretty much every year for daily commutes. Even if you reduce the amount theyve been used with years of less commuting etc, they have still been used a heck of a lot and havent had tears or delaminated. I've always used common sense with them, ie not leaning them up against a rough or sharp surfaces, or at least not dragging them across rough surfaces. I havent used the QL-1 anchor attachments enough yet to comment.
And yes, single compartment bags do require thoughful packing, but for me outweighed by not having to worry about stuff getting wet.

as for the front racks, Ive only used med priced Blackburns. I still look at gear purchases from both angles-more expensive, well made stuff lasts longer generally so in long run if you use it a lot, its worth it---vs--good quality stuff can work fine too. Comes down to personal budgeting.

Excellent! Thanks everyone for the suggestions, and the photos of your bike are just awesome Ted! Wow, lovely.

The more I look the more I like the Surly. I had contacted Alfred E Bike for shipping costs on the Surly -- about $35 they estimated. At $90 + 35 it makes it cheaper to buy from the states than to purchase from a UK vendor. Not sure about import duties, however.

That German link has excellent prices, you are right Ziemas.

Thanks again everyone. I am in no rush here so I will ponder a bit more. lol

I've had most of the racks discussed. Just a thought, the Surly (Nice) is huge and heavy..I dumped mine on eBay. A Jandd (rear) on a 700c is also too much for me. My lesson learned was don't overbuy, go the rack that matches your bike, intended use. Less can be more.

The Surly racks are pretty much exactly what I want in a set of racks. Too bad they cost about twice as much as is reasonable.

The Tubus Duo doesn't have a bar going over the wheel to connect the two sides. I think one of those is desirable to stabilize the load. I have toured with a Blackburn Low Rider, Tubus Tara, and a Jandd Extreme. They all worked well. I prefered the Tara over the Blackburn. It seemed more solid. Take a look at the Jandd. It has a platform like the Nice Rack, is rock solid, but is a bit lighter than the Surly. I like the platform so I've settled on the Jandd as my rack of choice. If I didn't think I was going to use the platform, I'd go with the Tubus Tara, because it's lighter.

The Tubus Duo doesn't have a bar going over the wheel to connect the two sides. I think one of those is desirable to stabilize the load. I have toured with a Blackburn Low Rider, Tubus Tara, and a Jandd Extreme. They all worked well. I prefered the Tara over the Blackburn. It seemed more solid. Take a look at the Jandd. It has a platform like the Nice Rack, is rock solid, but is a bit lighter than the Surly. I like the platform so I've settled on the Jandd as my rack of choice. If I didn't think I was going to use the platform, I'd go with the Tubus Tara, because it's lighter.

BigBlueToe you might disagree on this but i think there a bad design, i seen my friend crash when we toured in france, he had one of those type racks when he went over the bars his rack pushed the fork back into the frame wrecking fork /rack and head tube basically the bike was a rightoff.:eek: