General Cycling Discussion - Landrider Infomercial bashing regular bikes.

http://www.healthandbeautydirect.com/landrider/faq.html

Safer? It looks more dangerous to me it will make you a lazier rider, it doesn't allow a proper riding position, harder on the back.

The general perception is that 21 gears are better than 10 or 15 - and now you can even find bikes with 24 or 28 speeds! The fact is that many of these gears are duplicates.

They should check again, they are not the same.

It comes equipped with 2-inch wide all-terrain tires that have a center ridge for low friction road travel and side tread for off-road trails.

Semi-Slicks basically, at least they can get the terminology correct, but they don't.

That's just stuff from they're website. On the infomercial, they show one of their bikes flying up a hill, but the person on the road bike has one hand by the stem and the other one on the drops. They claim gearing distracts you; how can that be? You should be able to know what gear from the feel while pedalling. Faster braking, isn't true, when you're in a proper form there should always be one or two fingers on the brake lever, braking is just as quick, maybee a little quicker even. Back to the going quicker up a hill, because of the riding position of a landrider, it looks like on a steeper hill, you will go over backwards because of the riding position, where with a regular bike a proper position would not allow that to happen as easily. It seems like the makers of Landrider chopped some corners with research. Not to mention after a certain amount of miles or you live in a really hilly area, the system could burn out somewhat quickly.

I get so pissed when I see one of their infomercials......they are so dumb and they have no idea what their doing.

Give me 30 minutes with one of their bikes doing some tough technical uphills and I bet it stops shifting and I end up throwing it against a tree :D

And yes that was a runon sentence :D

A fool and his/her money are soon parted, eh? I think infomercials should be made illegal, or all the participants should be forced to wear a sign saying "Professional Actor" around their neck.

I like watching the informercial. I think it's hilarious. I like the part where the smiling model zips uphill easily on the Landrider, a wide grin on her face. Then there's the guy on the road bike, making a big production out of his huffing and puffing, and struggling to make sense of all his "complicated" shifting.
:roflmao:

I like too when the "cop" says how unsafe it is to shift gears manually on the road, and how much safer it is on the Landrider.

This company's going to go bust, of course, as I don't think there's a large untapped market for $400 bikepath bikes.

This bike and company have been around for quite a few years now (I remember watching the ads when I lived in Ontario working security at least 5 years ago). I don't know if they will go under. People are inherently lazy and this does make sense for those people who are shifter ********. :)

Let's all keep in mind that we are not the target demographic for these bikes!

The typical buyers of Landriders would be over 50, not mechanically inclined, and would be intimidated by the very thought of going to a bike shop. If they were going to buy a bike they would go to Wal-Mart, and these bikes are being offered as an alternative.

But their doctors keep telling them they need to get more exercise.

They don't read Bike Forums, and they really do think a 24-speed bike sounds terribly complicated. And they have nobody to tell them different; when was the last time you saw a Trek or Cannondale commercial on TV, let alone an infomercial.

I've thought for a long time that the bike companies are missing the boat by positioning their products exclusively as sports equipment designed for enthusiasts. They do make mass marketable products -- hybrids and cruisers and comfort bikes -- and then they don't advertise them to the mass market. This is just dumb: advertising is the only way to reach the mass market, by definition.

If the individual companies can't affort a TV campaign, maybe they should form a consortium. Instead of advertising a specific brand, simply promote the fact that your local bike shop can put you on a perfectly fitting, comfortable, easy to ride bike, and then train you use it and maintain it after the sale, just like a car dealer.

This might help siphon some of the *mart bike business back to the LBS's.

(PS: I might be wrong, but I think there was another automatic-shifting bike sold via infomercial a few years ago-- the "Autobike" -- but the company went under.)

RichC

My 68 year old mother got a new bike last year, a Giant Farrago. She rides the thing everywhere, and she actually said "the shifting system is great!" Of course, she does have four degrees, including MAs in sociology and social work, so she's probably not exactly the Landrider's target market... but still...

Lifted right off there page...

"The derailleur changes gears automatically. As the wheel turns and begins to speed up, the two weights on the derailleur spin faster moving the chain to a higher gear. As you slow down or brake, the wheel slows down and the derailleur weights slow down moving the chain to a lower gear."

Untill a bit of dirt on the spokes won't let the weight slide. I have seen a few at the bike shop, we won't work on them. We tell them to put the bike back in the box and ship it back for repairs.

Alot of good replies, after much thought this bike is alot better than a depot store bike.

1. "The general perception is that 21 gears are better than 10 or 15 - and now you can even find bikes with 24 or 28 speeds! The fact is that many of these gears are duplicates. "

There is some truth to this statement. A 28 speed bike will often have duplicates as some gears are only a half step greater than another.

I like the commercial in general but there are plenty of hybrids out there that I consider better. What I don't like is the fact that they do not state what components are used on the bike. I get the feeling this 33 lb bike is fitted with the cheapest components out there.

Here are some Hybrids I like

Bianchi Auto Milano - Same chassis and features as Milano. Pushbutton on-command electronic shifting, or program the Shimano Nexus Auto-D to shift for you automatically. Available as a diamond or lady's frame. (7 Speed)

Giant Revive - Revive is the ultimate comfort bike with a neutral riding position and adjustability for riders from 5'-6'6". This recumbent looking bike looks excellent.

Cannondale Adventure 600 Head shock - The HeadShok Silk Path M suspension fork absorbs shock and vibration for all-day comfort in the saddle. This bike uses the SRAM Dual Drive system where all the shifting is done on ONE click shifter. It's a no-brainer if you ask me.

I remember seeing that ad and being amused at the idea that people find shifting to be so complicated that they can't do it while in motion. Geez, and these people drive cars??? I remember years and years ago thinking that a road bike would be kind of complex, but I was a kid, not a grown adult who should be able to figure things like that out. Lately, I keep seeing all kinds of weird contraptions being marketed as bikes and which probably cost waaaay too much, all so people won't be intimidated by actually buying and riding a bike! Maybe they should feel like shmucks spending all that money! It doesn't look like those contraptions can go very fast, what kind of a workout can you get? NOt much, but I admit it's probably more than a lot of lazy couch potatoes get these days.

I actually did see a woman with a landrider! SHe wasn't riding it, she was just standing next to it but it was the only one I've ever seen. The truth is they look like cheap crap and probably weigh a ton. But at least it's not too complicated!

28-speed? Would that be a double crankset with a 14-speed cassette? :)

I've worked on the type of derailleur used on these. It's not like the Auto"bike" system. It uses a small Hayes V-belt to drive a mechanical governor, and was used by GT on their '99 AutoStream.

GT eventually issued a warning that the system was NOT intended to be a high-performance system and was NOT to be pedalled while standing. The derailleurs are not indexed, so it's possible for the mechanical governor to position the pulleys between gears. *Clatter, clatter...* :rolleyes: Another downfall was that if one stopped pedalling when in high gear, then came to a halt and started out again, the derailleur had to try to force its way back from high gear to low. *Crunch, slip, GRIND!*

Now remember this is intended for people who probably can't figure out a manual transmission either. (lessee here gas then clutch or is it brake? Oh poopsticks!):rolleyes:

not for me but a bikes a bike, maybe people who would never ride a bike would buy one of these, get interested & progress to a more sensible machine:) :)

I would have to agree with greywolf. But that company does down grade what we ride.The more riders the better.:)

Here are some better alternatives from Shimano...

1) Nexave C900 - Nexave C900 offers innovative braking and shifting functions that establish a significant evolutionary step in comfort bike components. For example, the SPCM (Shimano Power Change Mechanism) uses energy from the spinning crank to execute the front derailleur shifts. Nexave C900 also introduces the first high-performance hydraulic disc brake system for recreational and sport comfort bikes. Nexave C900... it's an exciting yet comfortable way to ride.

2) Nexus - Nexus is unique in that its internally geared rear hubs and hub roller brakes (or coaster brake) eliminate the need for derailleurs and brake calipers. The result is a more streamlined, cleaner-looking and less complicated bike that requires less maintenance and adjustment. The Nexus bike is just the thing for commuting, fitness cycling, fun riding, or going on errands around town.

3) Nexux Auto-D - AUTO D uses a speed sensor, shift motor, CPU control module and a stylish control console to shift the internally geared rear hub automatically. With AUTO D, you're always in the right gear. Nexus also offers the latest in electronic integration through AUTO-D, a bicycle transmission that shifts gears automatically through a computer-controlled internally geared rear hub. The Nexus bike is just the thing for commuting, fitness cycling, fun riding, or going on errands around town. See photo attached...

Those Nexus hub-gear systems are by far the best option for newbie cyclists who dont intend to do extreme riding. There is nothing new to them, Sachs and Sturmey Archer have made similar models for decades. You dont need any automatic shifting, just a manual lever marked from 1 to 7 which can be changed whilst stationery. Newbie and occasional riders do have a problem with 3x8 systems and hub gears make riding a whole lot simpler.

The biggest problem with them is the quality of bikes they are attatched to. Only Bianchi make a decent lightweight hub-geared conventional bike.

Quite a few experienced all-weather commuters fit them to touring bike and use them every day. People use them on and off-road, esp for riding on muddy tracks.

Originally posted by Rich Clark
Let's all keep in mind that we are not the target demographic for these bikes!

The typical buyers of Landriders would be over 50, not mechanically inclined, and would be intimidated by the very thought of going to a bike shop. If they were going to buy a bike they would go to Wal-Mart, and these bikes are being offered as an alternative.

But their doctors keep telling them they need to get more exercise.



My doctor told me I needed more exercise at the age of 50. So I bought a Giant Sedona DX. Before I turned 51, I added a Giant OCR1 Road bike. I even went to my LBS for both and got my wife a Giant Sedona. She's over 50 also.

I hope I didn't mess up my demographic;)

A girl at work ordered one of these a couple years back. She asked if I would put it together for her when it arrived and I agreed.

It's not a complete piece of *****...but it's 99.9 percent of the way there. I would recommend a single speed, or a simple 5 speed to the same demographic as these bikes are marketed toward. Way pricey for what you get.

My .02

How can you go wrong with the landrider? $100 rebate and a FREE $100 component upgrade, and its only 33 pounds! Just read the testimonials...

"One of the reasons the LandRider has been such a success and people are happy is because we listened to what people wanted and we designed the bike around their needs."
- Chris Lundin, LandRider Development Team

"This bike will become the standard of the world in terms of comfort, ease of use, safety and all the other issues that keep people from cycling. This is the answer."
- Bill Fields, Publisher, Bicycle Guide Magazine

"Women should love the LandRider because it is a lot more comfortable than most bikes. You sit more upright, and the saddle itself is a little wider so you don't put so much pressure on your pelvis."
- Liz Williamson, Retail Industry Consultant

"It's the perfect workout. The cardiovascular benefits of just being on a bike and exercising are fantastic. With LandRider you can go anywhere, rain or shine and you don't have to wait for the gym to open at a certain time. Just hop on and go!"
- Carrie Sisk, Professional Trainer and Cyclist

Doesn't this look like a SWEET ride!!!!!

Well it's got all the parts! ANd looks so COMFORTABLE too!

i see its got gear shift cables to the bars ,does this mean you can select manual or auto ?

The front derailleur is still manually shifted.
They are calling it High/Low.

I don't see the big deal here. It is simply the next evolution of "Comfort" bikes. I know a few people who'd much rather ride something with the nice wide range of gear selection without the need to worry about selecting one. The same ones who'd otherwise select one of the "cruiser" type bikes with the single up front and a 5-speed rear. Looks like a decent bike for the casualist.
As someone said earlier, maybe it gets more people riding. That's a good thing.

Greywolf & Gojohnnygo seem to be on a better track on this. Usually I refrain from these kinds of threads, just because they are more into opinion, BUT... Read a thread about the evil SUV's and how more poeple should be riding bikes. Now a bike comes along that (MAYBE, MIGHT, POSSIBLY) get more people riding bikes, and it gets bashed? If they sell 500 and it makes drivers more aware of cyclists on the street than a good thing has been done. If 5 of those decide to ride their bike on some errands rather than getting into that devil SUV and pump all that evil smog into the air, so much the better. If 450 of those sold decided they were crap, say 30 upgrade, even better. Seems like a win - win to me. I think we must remember, the more people riding, the better things can get. At least IMO.
:D

Did you notice that the actors in the infomercial don't look like "real" cyclists? They look like the type who will go for a 2 or 3 mile ride once or twice a month. :crash:

No, they look like people who are just getting into exercising and might be intimidated by 'real' bikes. If you're seriously hoping to get into shape, this bike won't do it, it'll only allow short rides and not very fast ones. Anyone who wants to get more serious will quickly get fed up and get a road bike, but are these the type of people who would make that leap? They don't look it to me.

Oh my GOD.

If people are SO DUMB that they can't even figure out how to shift a bike (not hard.. you either twist or push/pull a lever.. not rocket science here). then they should not be living.


These people are dumber than a box of rocks. Wait.. make that just the box, not even smart enough to house the rocks!

AHHH!!

The discust! :rolleyes:

Maybe they're not dumb. maybe they just don't WANT to shift gears. I know how to shift a tranny on a car, but I opt for an automatic. Does that make me dumb?
Maybe they just want a bike to ride around on leisurely. Maybe they just want to have an alternative form of exersize for when they don't feel like getting on the treadmill.
Maybe they just aren't so into bikes like most of us.
Maybe people who look down on other people who don't fit in thier personal demographic are just snobs.

true true.

lol.

:beer:

Well designed bicycle transmissions typically have a few redundant gears, but a large number of useful, distinct ratios. I get 12 useful gears on my 2x7 road bikes (52-44/14-28 and 50-42/13-26), 18 good gears on my 3x7 mountain bike (48-40-24/13-26), and 15 good gears on my 3x6 road bike (48-45-34/13-23).

Let's not knock automatic shifting. It is definitely not my thing, but if it encourages a few noncycling motorists to get out and ride, I am all for it.

It seems to me the problem is the infomercial, not the bike. If it gets people riding, who cares if they can shift or not?

WAIT! If it's different , then it MUST be evil!!!!! .

Death and/or destruction to anything different from whatever you choose to ride, tolerance be damned!

I had inquired as to how much shipping would be but the seller never responded. Wanted to get it for a hoot.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1576532003&rd=1

I know this is a tangential issue, but I don't agree that my 24 speed has redundant gears. Sure, some are very close, but that's not the point.

I have a triple chainring. When I'm on the flat, I use the middle chainring. Those gear ratios work best on the flat. When climbing, I want the gears to step a little closer, so I often use my granny. When descending, I want the gears spaced further apart so I don't have to shift as often, so I use my big chainring.

The problem isn't that the bike has an automatic shifting system.

The problem is that the bike is a $100 Chinese K-Mart bike with a gimmick that the company is charging an extra $300 for.

The problem is that the biggest problem with bikes for new riders is not the difficulty of shifting, but the fact that the riders experience sufficient pain and discomfort that they give up riding.

The problem is that without the availability of a sufficient range of frame sizes, and expert guidance in achieving proper fit, the typical customer for a Landrider is no more likely to get a comfortable fit on one of these than they are on a Pacific from Target.

The problem is that when the purchaser finally gives up and sells the thing at a garage sale, they're going to be even more bitter about cycling as a fun and practical pursuit because they overpaid so much.

As an over-50 rider myself, I know very clearly how important fit is to a middle-aged rider. It doesn't take much to achieve a fit that's bad enough to cause knee or back or wrist or neck pain. A younger rider may shrug off a level of discomfort that an older rider can't long tolerate. Yet that older rider is the target market for these bikes.

IMO, the shifting issue is mostly a straw man, a low-priority issue being made to appear important because it's so easy to build a marketing campaign around. It's much easier to label and pitch to a non-cycling audience than the issue of fit would be, and much cheaper to create a product that then "addresses" the "problem."

And don't you think that if a cheap autoshift design like this could actually be made reliable and effective, that the major brands would be all over it like a blanket? There's a reason you can't test-ride an Autobike in a bike shop.

RichC

As I said, I don't have issues with the bike itself, if someone wants to ride one of these, it's their freedom to. My problem is with their website and infomercial.

I don't think they're dumb because they don't want to shift, I think they're dumb because they're being taken in by an ad for a product which is overpriced crap with a gimmick. They could get themselves a decent bike and one that fits them better and won't cause all kinds of back problems. I see people, especially middle aged women, riding these bikes where they can barely reach the handlebars- they're holding on with two fingers and wobbling around. Not very safe for anyone.

haha the Landrider is crap! I saw it on tv once and couldn't believe what I was seeing; wanna hear something cool though, My grandma went to doctor and he said she needed to start exercise...she went to the LBS and got an awesome Raliegh Cruiser with a 9 speed internal hub thing.. i like to ride it down the street sometimes b/c it shifts so great.. huh.. who knew...

24 gears?! mmmmm, single speed... mmmmm, 3 speed hubs.... that's all I needs -- one speed or 3 in the more hilly areas.

Probably nowhere near as good as any entry-level LBS mountain or hybrid bike. A store in my area signed a deal with the devil when they opened up five or six years ago; they rented the place out for a day to be used as a set to shoot part of the Autobike fraudfomercial--their sign and logos were in the thing and they had to keep an Autobike around for a couple of years, even worked on a few. I hope they talked the Autobike victims into sending the things back and sold 'em Cannondales or Fishers!

The seat is too wide - you will get chafing on your legs.

The cables are enclosed their entire length - they will rust and snap with a month (even $99 Kmart bikes have exposed cables nowadays).

The fender is useless - it is not long enough or flared at the bottom to prevent you getting a stripe on your back.

There is no front fender.

There is no carrying rack.

The claim 'it is comfortable to ride, sitting up instead of squatting down' is false :

1. That is not comfortable riding - it strains your back.

2. That frame has a wide castor and seat angle for 'comfort' riding rather than racing - but you would still be hunched over the bars with the seat put up far enough not to strain your knees. They have taken a basic bike frame designed for the local (Chinese) market and added a few frills.

I saw the LandRider infomercial again this morning when I got out of the shower. Haven't seen it in many months. If it weren't for the terrible image it portrays of "real" cyclists and "real" bikes it would be funny.

I kept waiting for http://shop.ronco.com/images/ronsmall01.jpg to come on and offer a free rotisserie oven http://shop.ronco.com/includes/popups/images/showtimeT400x275.jpg with every bike purchased. :lol: :roflmao: :lol:


I couldn't get over the fact that they kept saying that "with the automatic transmission you don't have to look to shift gears" and what a break-through that is for safe cycling. It allows you to keep your eyes on the road. And they mention how this allows you to see more of the scenery while riding.

Who looks when shifting? :confused: I always thought shifting was instinctive. Isn't instinctive the same as "automatic"? Something that you learned to do, just like keeping your balance while riding?


Whoever is stupid enough to fall for this load of crap deserves one of these ... er ... ah ... "bikes". :crash: :p

Bike stores should all buy one of these--leave it on the floor and it'll make entry=level Treks, Cannondales, etc., look like an even better deal than they already are!

Like the local shop told a fella I took out there to look a new bike over. "Just go over to Wal-Mart, ask to ride a bike and try it out, if they will let you, come back here and then ride one of mine". He is picking up his 4500 Trek this evening!:D

I thought this thread died months ago.....
Seriously, anybody that takes advice on buying a bike from Ron Popiel should have his head examined!

I have 9 high gears, 9 middle gears, and 9 really easy gears....Oh wait, mine isn't automatic....crapola. I love on the website where they answer the question of size..."The correct frame size is determined by your inseam measurement. If you don't know you're inseam, an easy way to determine the length is to measure the inside leg seam of a full-length pair of pants from the crotch seam to the bottom of the hem."

LOL, yeah right!!!! I don't know about you guys, but I don't have jeans where the crotch seem is right up in "there"...I like to have things a little free....So if I did like they say, my inseam measurement would be an EASY 4 inches to short... maybe even more. Oh well, at least I'll have automatic shifting! Lookout Lance!! I'll kick your butt yet! Because with my kick arse bike I'm always in th3 right gear! You aren't!!

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just being sarcastic because the FAQ's at the website are so funny.

I just feel sorry for the poor shmucks who don't know any better---that actually spent money on these overpriced pieces of crap. :(

The thing with those pieces of crap is that you can't get any kind of a decent workout. A friend of ours got a bike last year , not a landrider but some piece of junk from Canadian tire or something. He's not exactly into fitness. For the money he spent he could have gotten a decent second hand road bike or hybrid. You can't really ride bikes like that for more than a few blocks, so what's the point? You'd get a better workout on a stationary bike!