Road Cycling - Yet ANOTHER carbon question...

Is the bond between carbon seat/chainstays and a frame suspect to failure? I've never heard of a rear triangle failing in such a manner, but I'm debating between two bikes I'd like to purchase. One has a carbon seatstay, the other is steel. If any of you know anything about the durability of C bonding, help me out!

Oh, and for those who are wondering:
The frames to which I've narrowed things down are the Pegoretti Marcelo and Fondriest Status Carb. Saying this, I don't want this to be a thread on which bike is better; so brand fanatics please hold your tongues. Both are excellent rides, but I just need to know something about the carbon-steel bond question. My advance thanks!

Any bond is subject to failure.I see no point or benefit to CF stays on a quality well built steel bike.It's follow the leader makketing,IMHO,with no real benefit to the consumer.

Felonious: There have been very few reported failures of rear CF stays regardless to the material to which it's bonded. Even a better guage for the durabilty would be to look at the CF/Ti frames from Serotta and Merlin. A lot more stress and so far good reliabilty.

That said, I know nothing about the workmanship of the frames that you enquire about. I would look at the general reputation of the brands first. Bonding CF to other materials is very common (think forks).

Congrats on choosing The FONDRIEST STATUS CARB. Fondriest knows what they are doing when it comes to bonding the carbon seatstays to their frames. They electrostatically charge the metal frame as the carbon seatstay is epoxied in place. The stickiness of the epoxy is enhanced by the electrostatic charge giving the bond unparalled durabilty. In other words: don't worry about the carbon bond. Once again congratulations on choosing FONDRIEST as your next bicycle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by cane
Congrats on choosing The FONDRIEST STATUS CARB...Once again congratulations on choosing FONDRIEST as your next bicycle!
Your enthusiasm concerning my "choice" is noted; however, not so fast, buddy.

Originally posted by FELONIOUS MONK
The frames to which I've narrowed things down are the Pegoretti Marcelo and Fondriest Status Carb.
Also:

Originally posted by cane
They electrostatically charge the metal frame as the carbon seatstay is epoxied in place. The stickiness of the epoxy is enhanced by the electrostatic charge giving the bond unparalled durabilty.I've already read this information verbatim at Competitive Cyclist's website (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/fondriest/). It sounds reassuring, but don't all sales pitches? What I'm really looking for is a testimonial to such "unparalleled durability" (unless, of course, you own a Status Carb or any other frame equipped with a carbon fiber seatstay). Thanks either way!

I have owned and ridden a FONDRIEST Carb Level 107 for almost a year now. I just ran out to the garage and checked the milage on my computer and it is 3719.6 miles. I checked the carbon fiber/aluminum joints: they are still holding.
I'll be the first to post a message on this forum if any of the joints fail!!!! How's that for a testamonial??? I love my bike. It kicks ass. I honestly don't know if an electrostatic charge really helps the carbon/metal bond or not, I do know that FONDRIEST is the BEST frame builder in the world. Why??? Cuz, I've ridden lotza bikes and NOTHING compares to my FONDRIEST except other FONDRIESTS. Once again congrats on your decision to get a FONDRIEST.

Originally posted by cane
I honestly don't know if an electrostatic charge really helps the carbon/metal bond or not, I do know that FONDRIEST is the BEST frame builder in the world. Why??? Cuz, I've ridden lotza bikes and NOTHING compares to my FONDRIEST except other FONDRIESTS.

cane, you wouldn't happen to have your own informercial that aires on a UHF channel sometime between the hours of 0100 and 0300 would you? On a more serious note, Sheldon Brown's website always has some good info on such things. You may want to check out:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/carbonqa.htm#Bonding%20Metal

Originally posted by cane
I have owned and ridden a FONDRIEST Carb Level 107 for almost a year now...I love my bike. It kicks ass. I honestly don't know if an electrostatic charge really helps the carbon/metal bond or not, I do know that FONDRIEST is the BEST frame builder in the world. Why??? Cuz, I've ridden lotza bikes and NOTHING compares to my FONDRIEST except other FONDRIESTS...How's that for a testimonial???
That is quite a testimonial, cane! It's beneficial to have an opinion from an actual owner of the brand I am considering for purchase. Thanks again!

P.S.
I noticed that you said, "...NOTHING compares to my FONDRIEST except other FONDRIESTS." Have you ridden Fondriest's steel offering? If so, could you tell me a little something about the ride?

Sorry, I have not ridden the Status Carb. I have ridden the P4 Carbon. The bike rocks. I would love to own the TOP Carbon but at over $4g's for the frame it's a little outa my league right now.

Originally posted by cane
Congrats on choosing The FONDRIEST STATUS CARB. Fondriest knows what they are doing when it comes to bonding the carbon seatstays to their frames. They electrostatically charge the metal frame as the carbon seatstay is epoxied in place. The stickiness of the epoxy is enhanced by the electrostatic charge giving the bond unparalled durabilty. In other words: don't worry about the carbon bond. Once again congratulations on choosing FONDRIEST as your next bicycle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .......................... WHOOPIE!! Does that ever sound lke marketing hype.Did they hire the Energizer Bunny and do they use AA or D cells?

Before buying I could not find any research stating failure of CF seat/chain stays. IMO, Fondriest QC is above the rest. I love the way the CF Chain/Seatstays function like the front CF fork... shock absorbers. Very easy on the hands and soften the road as it reaches my bottom.

This past weekend I went on a long ride at the beach. :) I averaged 17-23mph with sprints to 30mph and can't wait to ride again this weekend. At one point, I discovered some unusual textured cement that lasted about a mile, on one portion of the bike path. My CF seat/chain stays offered an unusual softening of this bumpy portion. It sorta felt like I was riding on a tire that was low on air or going flat; But, my tires were at 120lb capacity... I kept checking thinking the rear end while enjoying the strange dampening affect at speed. Once the ground cover changed, the ride was back to offering a smooth fast feel.

I am learning that my frame reacts almost to quick to my physical power. I am learning to apply patience to it's agility and strength and I am regaining a natural comfort in the saddle at speed which allows me to go no handed. This frame is not a comparison to my old Bottechia Reynolds 531 frame and or my Specialized frame, course it's much lighter, at a bit under 16.8lbs too. :p

It's going to be tough :confused: to draw a sound buyers conclusion via internet threads such as this and internet research... :) without doing a good test ride.:( My best advice is to go buy what your gut says and I wish you all the best in your decision.:p

It sorta felt like I was riding on a tire that was low on air or going flat; But, my tires were at 120lb capacity... I kept checking thinking the rear end while enjoying the strange dampening affect at speed.

I know that feeling, is it common to all carbon frames?, as i often look down to see if i have a flat. Riding my Look K.G.

Originally posted by willic
It sorta felt like I was riding on a tire that was low on air or going flat; But, my tires were at 120lb capacity... I kept checking thinking the rear end while enjoying the strange dampening affect at speed.

I know that feeling, is it common to all carbon frames?, as i often look down to see if i have a flat. Riding my Look K.G.

I have a feeling that it's common to CF. I don't feel that same reaction in my hands on the front, likely due to much less weight. Possibly, that's how CF seat/chainstays handle the extra weight.

The 'flat tire' feeling on a CF bike is often described by riders with limited experience on bikes made with CF or CF stays. I believe what is happening is that riders of steel/Ti/Al bikes are used to feeling the sharp jolts in the road, and when on CF those jolts,bumps etc. have the 'edge' taken off. The resulting bike feel is much like when the tire pressure is less than it's supposed to be, the bumps jolts and holes don't feel as sharp. Some CF bikes are considered to have a 'dead' feel.

I've had three Serottas, two steel and one Ti, and two Calfees. My Ti Serotta is a wonderful bike, an extremely good handler. The Calfee, to me, is smoother and more pleasant to ride on rougher roads.