Commuting - At a traffic light, should u pass all the stopped cars?!

Bicycling Magazine, in one of their little biking "how to" booklets, says you shouldn't pass cars stopped at a light and go to the front of the line before the light turns green. It says these drivers have already passed you once, and now you are making them pass you again once the light goes green, and this is not good for harmoneous biker-car driver relations. So a good courteous biker, they say, does not move to the front of a car line at a light, but will stay in the line with the rest of the cars.
My biggest thrill used to be moving to the front of the line with a smirk on my face, and then trying to beat the lead car across the intersection before they passed me. But since I read the Bicycling booklet, I've been a good boy and staying in the line. But now I am thinking of reverting to my previous self-asserting behavior. I like to show car-dependent drivers the benefits of riding a bike, but I guess this is selfish grandstanding when you come right down to it. Or not? Thanks in advance for setting me straight on this!

I actually do it both ways. It all depends on what is safest for myself.

If the road is relatively wide and there is space for me to get down the side of the cars without going on the pavement (sidewalk) or touching the cars then I'll make my way to the front.

If there isn't space I'll put myself in the middle of the lane and behave like a car (sit and wait). I don't like standing starts in traffic as it takes me a couple of yards to get myself stable on the bike, so going in the middle gives me a bit of space.

It also means the steel cage driver behind can't fail to see you!

If you are some way back in a line of traffic, the lights turn, and cars accelerate off. If you are on an uphill, there is no way you can reach the lights in time, and cars will stack up behind you. On an uphill approach I usually make my way to the front.

i also do either/both depending on the situation.

in general, in traffic/urban areas where i usually travel faster than cars, i pass on the right at lights -- as an aside: as of 2000 it's legal for cyclists in the state of Oregon

in less dense areas like out of town or in light traffic, i usually wait behind the cars as they will just have to pass me again - the exception here is if the shoulder/lane is wide enough that they can easily pass me.

in other words... if 5 cars just passed me and the speed limit is 40mph and there is light traffic and they will just pass me after the light turns green, i pass them ONLY if it won't cause any difficulties for the cars to again pass... and my "cost" is a few car-lengths.

in urban areas or heavy traffic it usually would be ridiculous to sit through multiple red-lights along with auto drivers or wait at the end of a 50-car queue... they're using a form of transportation not suited for the urban environment, so why should i on a bicycle limit myself to the disadvantages of a car? ... aside: i believe cars should be only used in the city for special needs (such as freight delivery or police and emergency services) and most intra-city transport should be either by foot, by bike or public transit. i'm not anti-car, but for "limited, appropriate use of motor vehicles"

Several of the suburban roads I ride on will often back up for up to a mile, so it makes no sense for me to wait in stop-and-go traffic for that long. My rule of thumb is: If I can get through the stop light within the next 1-2 cycles, then I will pull into traffic and stop behind a car. (I try not to stop beside a car because I have been cut off by right-turners too many times.) Otherwise, I will pass on the right until I get 4-5 cars back from the light and then "insert" myself back into the line, making sure the car behind me has seen me. I rarely pull all the way up to the front because of right-turners.

I have no idea if this is legal, but it seems like a good compromise between efficiency and safety. If anyone thinks this is a bad idea, I'd like to hear why.

Tim

A very good question,

In some places in the UK, the junction is laid out to encourage cyclists to the front of the queue, and an area is designated to allow them to wait in front of the motor traffic. In other places the bike lane gives out just before you arrive at the junction (thank you Mr town planner :crash: ).

I will pull to the front in those places where the markings indicate I can, but will also do this if traffic is so conjested that I'd have to wait many traffic light sequences to get through - I'm not in the way of the cars at this point, the other cars are the problem, and they're holding me up. I always keep an eye open for left turners and won't squeeze through a gap if it means putting a foot down. If the junction is on a fast & busy road, I will hold station in the queue, but try to have a some presence on the road to avoid being squeezed or cut off. I can usually keep pace with cars until we get out of the junction zone.

Cheers,

Ed

In general I think it is a very bad idea to pass all of the cars at a red light and move to the front of the line. Granted it gets you away from the light sooner. But the most basic tenet of Effective Cycling (John Forester) is that bicyclists do best when they act like vehicles. Other vehicles don't take to the shoulder and pass all of the other cars at stop lights.

Cagers don't expect anything to pass them on the right hand side (left in the UK et al). Moving up to the light you will be invisible to most of the motorists. At stop lights, move into the center of the lane and wait your turn.

Other vehicles don't take to the shoulder and pass all of the other cars at stop lights.

i'm sure this doesn't happen in dixon, il but vehicles will almost always take the shoulder or worse in the larger cities.

i almost always near the front, but every intersection is different. does it have a left or right hand turn lane? my behavior is different depending on weather i am turning left, going straight or turning right.

either way i agree that when a car has to pass you only once it is a positive. but these 4-way stop signs where cars are backed up 100+ cars (i count....my record is 122 cars)

i do experience cars that will literally move over onto the white line when they see me coming in their rearview mirror or gun their engine so a lowly bike won't pass them. uugghh..

http://www.city.ottawa.on.ca/city_services/traffic/cycling_guide/law_en.shtml

My route as 6 foot wide bike lanes at the two interestions I hit. I always proceed to the light, unless a car is blocking the bike lane, whch happens from time to time. I have never had a driver yelp at me. One thing I have learned, however, is to proceed very slowly, even if in the bike lane, as more than once I have had a car make an abrupt turn into the bike lane in an attempt to slip into a side street or store.

As is so often the case in discussions like this, I suppose it depends on circumstances. In those cases where there is a long line, and it is safe to do so, I think a careful approach to the front of the line may help illustrate the advantage of commuting with a bike rather than a car:p

In all cases though, I try not to interfere with the flow of traffic.

Originally posted by RiPHRaPH


i'm sure this doesn't happen in dixon, il but vehicles will almost always take the shoulder or worse in the larger cities.


I stand corrected. In fact, I do see cars pass on the shoulder even in Dixon, IL. I should have said, "Other vehicles should not take to the shoulder and pass all of the other cars at stop lights" or "Other vehicles do not legally and safely take to the shoulder...etc"

I also think that road with Bike Lanes would be an exception. We don't have many of those hereabouts.

Go to a grocery store, grab a hand basket, pick some items to buy, and then go to the checkout line and cut in ahead of the people with shopping carts. See how popular this makes you. :)

Rationalize your behavior any way you like ("I will go through the line faster with my little basket") but the bottom line is, you're cutting in front of people who were there first. And motorists are people, despite rumors to the contrary. ;) If there's a bike lane or a shoulder separated from the traffic lane by a white stripe, or if other circumstances dictate the real need to move up to the front, then do it if you want to (but watch for people who might turn across your path). If the motorists might be inconvenienced at having to pass you a second time, then hold your place in line, and our reputation will be the better for it. :)

On my commute, I will move up to the front of the line if there is a bike lane that is marked and noone is blocking my path. Usually, there is plenty of room in the intersection and after that for cars to pass me is easy. Furthermore, it gets me out of the lane so that cars that are using the bike lane for right turns can easily go behind me. I get many people saying thanks for not sitting there holding things up.

In the few places where there is no bike lane, I will hold my position in line, unless the line of cars is several light changes out, then I will move to the front. (With a big smile on my face of course).

As for left turns, I am inconsistent, but often I will only move to the front if there are 4 or more cars in line, and I know the left arrow will change before the solid green light. (I don't want to get clipped by cars passing on my right). But the reason is I want to get out of the intersection quicky, which I can do without a successful pedal clip in, but I find it harder to do when I have a long strech of road ahead of me first. Since I can usually get off the line quicker than the average car (with the exception of the muscle cars that can't stand bikes going faster than them :rolleyes: ) I don't think I upset many people. Of course I may be wrong ;)

very, very strange thread.

i always go to the head of the line, and when the light turns green i make it a point to head far right so that cars can easily repass me. i can't imagine waiting in a cue just to be courteous when there is a generous amount of space that allows me to comfortably move to the front.

when i've done this, i've never been beeped, nudged, or flipped off by an aggravated driver. it's never been an issue at all.

am i missing something? very, very strange thread.

If I am riding on a shoulder, I always pass, but I do wait at the light. If I am actually on the road, I wait in line, unless the traffic is really bad and the only reason I rode my bike is so I wouldn't have to wait in traffic.:p

Originally posted by Bandit
very, very strange thread.

i always go to the head of the line, and when the light turns green i make it a point to head far right so that cars can easily repass me. i can't imagine waiting in a cue just to be courteous when there is a generous amount of space that allows me to comfortably move to the front.

when i've done this, i've never been beeped, nudged, or flipped off by an aggravated driver. it's never been an issue at all.

am i missing something? very, very strange thread.

Key words: "when there is a generous amount of space" and "I make it a point to head far right." In my downtown area, there is no far right to head to, and no generous amount of space. :) To (re)pass me with a comfortable margin, most autos must cross the lane marker. Evidently your area's streets are designed better than ours. :) There is still the risk of pulling up next to a vehicle that intends to turn right, or being cut off by an oncoming vehicle turning left, so keep your eyes open.

point taken. thanks.

point take except that .... i can't ever remember there NOT being a generous amount of space to ease to the front of the line, here in the bay area or down south, where i used to live. there must nearly always be enough room to ease forward. are car drivers in other areas so volatile they won't tolerate that? if so .... pity. i continue to be puzzled.

Originally posted by mechBgon
Go to a grocery store, grab a hand basket, pick some items to buy, and then go to the checkout line and cut in ahead of the people with shopping carts. See how popular this makes you. :)


My circumstantial arguement regarding moving up alonside traffic suggested doing so without interfering with the progress of traffic.

In a supermarket, the analogy would be that I have decided not to buy anything and am squeezing through the checkout line to leave the store.

Your analogy would apply if I moved to the front of a line of cars and held them all up while I waited for a left turn opportunity while they wanted to go straight through.

It all depends on if I have enough room between the cars and the curb. I also sport a silk screened patch that says "It is illegal for me to ride my bike on the sidewalk!" on my messenger bag..just so they're aware that I am abiding by all of the rules like a good commuter.

i personally think it's possible to take this "social conscience" thing a bit too far. :)

in fact there is one stretch of road on my evening commute that features a very narrow boulevard, with cars zipping along at 45-50 mph, and a blind rise in the road that has them barreling down on me without seeing me in advance. it is poorly lit and of course it is dark at that point in the evening. very dangerous. so you better believe i take to the sidwalk to cover this 1/2 mile, albeit at a very slow pace to avoid problems with pedestrians (though i've never seen one there).

it may put me in violation of the law, but in a contest between my hide and traffic regulations, i certainly know which way i will go, each and every time.

Originally posted by Bandit
i personally think it's possible to take this "social conscience" thing a bit too far. :)

it may put me in violation of the law, but in a contest between my hide and traffic regulations, i certainly know which way i will go, each and every time.

I can certainly agree with that!

I pass them because it's legal for me to do so and I do so in a manner that will allow cars to make right hand turns. The only time I suck tailpipe is waiting for a left-hand turn.

Originally posted by trmcgeehan
Bicycling Magazine, in one of their little biking "how to" booklets, says you shouldn't pass cars stopped at a light and go to the front of the line before the light turns green. It says these drivers have already passed you once, and now you are making them pass you again once the light goes green, and this is not good for harmoneous biker-car driver relations. So a good courteous biker, they say, does not move to the front of a car line at a light, but will stay in the line with the rest of the cars.
My biggest thrill used to be moving to the front of the line with a smirk on my face, and then trying to beat the lead car across the intersection before they passed me. But since I read the Bicycling booklet, I've been a good boy and staying in the line. But now I am thinking of reverting to my previous self-asserting behavior. I like to show car-dependent drivers the benefits of riding a bike, but I guess this is selfish grandstanding when you come right down to it. Or not? Thanks in advance for setting me straight on this!

California has some fun rules... Yes... Both bicyles and motorcycles are expected to ride between stopped autos at a light and go to the front if you're going through the light. On freeways, motorcycles are required to cut traffic down the middle of lanes. Officers or CHP can ticket you if they want.

ehhhhh .... you are not quite correct regaring motorcycling. technically it is legal to ride a motorcycle between lanes of slow-moving traffic. i know because i have routinely done it for more than 15 years, and in that time have never been ticketed or involved in a mishap. to the unitiated it looks dangerous, but in actual practice it is not, so long as you adhere to some simple guidelines which i won't go into here because this is a bicycling forum.

the law allowing motorcycles to go between lanes of traffic was enacted because 10 years ago most motorcycles were air cooled, and required wind to keep motors from overheating. if you make them sit stationary in traffic they overheat, creating a safety hazard for themselves and for cars. now most motorcycles are water cooled, but the law has remained unchanged, largely because no one can demonstrate that splitting between lanes is more dangerous than simple everyday riding.

i'm not sure what you mean when you say you are "required" to go between lanes. i assume you're being sarcastic. there is no such requirement.

California's looney laws to the contrary notwithstanding, lane-splitting is illegal most places.

Since the thread is essentially asking about lane-splitting (passing stopped traffic at a light isn't an issue if you have a bike lane or a paved shoulder or a restricted lane to do it in) I think the answer is implicit in whether lane-splitting is legal where you are.

If it is, and you can move up safely, then let your sense of self-preservation be your guide.

If it isn't, I'd suggest looking for other routes where traffic doesn't back up on roads with no shoulders.

Personally, I ride with the assumption that I have to stop and go as part of the traffic flow. If opportunities to gain some ground safely without getting in anybody's way present themselves, I often take them.

RichC

regarding bicycling: i didn't think we were talking about lanesplitting. i thought we were talking about easing up to the front of a line of cars in the furthermost right part of the right lane (right next to the shoulder). this is the designated space for bicycles, is it not? if this space is verboten to bikes, where exactly would one ride?

Originally posted by Bandit
regarding bicycling: i didn't think we were talking about lanesplitting. i thought we were talking about easing up to the front of a line of cars in the furthermost right part of the right lane (right next to the shoulder). this is the designated space for bicycles, is it not? if this space is verboten to bikes, where exactly would one ride?

Passing on the right is illegal most places as well, ISTR.

RichC

Originally posted by Bandit
ehhhhh .... you are not quite correct regaring motorcycling. technically it is legal to ride a motorcycle between lanes of slow-moving traffic. i know because i have routinely done it for more than 15 years, and in that time have never been ticketed or involved in a mishap. to the unitiated it looks dangerous, but in actual practice it is not, so long as you adhere to some simple guidelines which i won't go into here because this is a bicycling forum.

the law allowing motorcycles to go between lanes of traffic was enacted because 10 years ago most motorcycles were air cooled, and required wind to keep motors from overheating. if you make them sit stationary in traffic they overheat, creating a safety hazard for themselves and for cars. now most motorcycles are water cooled, but the law has remained unchanged, largely because no one can demonstrate that splitting between lanes is more dangerous than simple everyday riding.

i'm not sure what you mean when you say you are "required" to go between lanes. i assume you're being sarcastic. there is no such requirement.

I recently finished my second advanced motorcycle riding school sponsored by the CHP here in So CA... I've been riding for 30+years in CA, and the Midwest. I am a qualified road captain.
They made it very clear, if a CHP officer see's a scooter idoling in slow traffic on the freeway, they can ticket. They don't want scooters of any type setting in stopped or slow traffic, no matter. They expect us to split traffic on the freeway or streets.

Here it is legal to pass cars on the left, so I will always move to the front if there is room. If I see the lights have turned green before I reach the front and I see someone has an indicator on I will pull in behind that car and wait for them to turn.

It is not pushing in, as it is legal to do (here). If drivers get jealous because I can pull to the front big deal, but I don't think drivers pay that much attention to us anyhow. As soon as the lights turn green everyone floors the accelerator, and we do it all again at the next set of lights.

CHEERS.

Mark

Here in Québec, "line splitting" is a concept that doen't exist. Therefore, if someone -- a car driver, a motorcyclist or a bicyclist -- want to pass a car, he or she must do it by using a full lane where it is legal (i.e. no double line, not near an intersection, etc.)

However, we have a specific exception in our highway code whereas a person riding a bike on the right is not presumed to occupy a lane. That person can go faster than car drivers (in a safe manner). So, it's legal for a bicyclist to pass people stopped for a red light.

Our "authorities" generally recommend that cyclists continue to stay to the right-hand side through the intersection -- a principle I don't agree with --, though they aren't clear about right-turn lanes, as if cyclists never use busy roads and streets. In all fairness, our highway code requires motor-vehicle drivers to look for pedestrians and bicyclists before turning right or left (this specific obligation to look for bicyclists in the street before turning right doesn't exist in most Canadian provinces, BTW).

So, going in front or near the front of the queue is legal. Is it safe or fair? It depends.

1. If the roadway is very wide -- implicit or explicit bike lane --,l there's obviously no problem in jumping the queue, although I still prefer to stay behind the first 1 or 2 persons, in case they would decide to turn right.

2. If the roadway is narrow, I base my jugment on the overall traffic speed. I don't want to pass cars that just passed me and that will pass me again within 1 block, but I'll pass people if I feel I'll be ahead of them for 2 or more blocks.

Regards,

Hehe, I guess I should be glad that we are at least talking about where to stop at the stoplight, instead of whether to stop at all. :)

I think a look at Spokane's 2nd and 3rd Avenues would convince most of the doubters that there ARE places where one should wait one's turn in line. Put a 7-foot-wide SUV in the lane and there's precious little room for a bicycle between the SUV and the parked cars. Anyone here ever been doored? Ah so, grasshoppah... ;) One of the hidden benefits of waiting behind the queue is that one has the whole lane to work with, as long as one takes up enough lane to keep the other vehicles from sneaking up alongside (hmmm!).

I agree, there are circumstances where no one will mind. Use your best judgement, but if it's going to exasperate a motorist who has to pull partway into another lane to pass you AGAIN, then only do so if you really need to. Here in Spokane, we have had several incidents of road rage turn fatal this year... :( As for me, I'll keep playing by the rules I expect the motorists to play by... they seem to respect that.

Here we are allowed to pass on the right only if in a marked bike lane. About half the time I'm not in the bike lane I'll stop, half the time I'll scootch to the front of the line.

Odd thing is that slow bikers who use the sidewalk or far right to pass me have made me more considerate of cars. It is very annoying to pass someone three times on the same hill, only to have them pass at the light. (note: this is only a problem if they are very slow and cause me to lose much momentum. It has also made me more aware of bikers passing, and i try never to slow anyone down.)

Certainly my personal safety is the top priority. Keeping momentum and following the law vie for second place.

Oso

Perfectly legal in this country. In fact, I can think of at least four intersections within 2km of my home where the line markings actually encourage it. As a consequence, I will keep doing it. About the only time I don't do it is when there is a bit of shade behind the queue. Then cooling off becomes more important.

In saying that, one should exercise a certain amount of discretion here. If I think the light is going to change before I get to the front, I'll probably wait in line somewhere.

For me the decision to wait in line or advance to the front depends entirely on the circumstances involved. for example, if I must stop for a light while going uphill, I will allways move as far to the right as possible and pass the cars so as not to lose momentum. Also, since I cannot accelerate as fast as a motorist while going up hill, I prefer to be out of their way when the light changes. I know not everyone will agree with me on this, but it is what I am most comfortable with. At other intersections I would find myself snadwiched between parked cars and moving traffic if I didn't take the whole lane. In general, I'll follow what I consider to be the best course of action irregardless of what the "rules" may be. The way I see it is that the rules of the road were written primarily with automobile traffic in mind and a cyclist must be able to adapt and improvise rather than limit his options due to a ridgid interpretation of the law.

if it pisses off car drivers, truck drivers ect it cant be all bad :D one of the perks of cycle commuting !! a small compensation for the ar$holes who turn in front of you or squeese you between them & the kerb on corners & open their doors in front of you, ect ect ect. :crash:

In the UK we have much the same traffic laws as Canada or Australia, so the what the Americans call 'lane splitting' is perfectly legal for cyclists and motorbikes.

Undertaking (as opposed to overtaking) is however illegal, and not only is a sign of a bad driver, but will also ensure you are hooted, flashed and cut up by every other driver around you

London and most other urban areas cyclists are activly encouraged to go to the front of the queue of traffic.

Many of the more major itersections now have a green strip right across the road on the in front of the first car which is designed for the cyclists alone, so than once you get two or three cyclists going through three abreast at the same time, it is the cars that have to go across at cycle speed, and then overtake all of us once we are in single file on the other side of the lights.

We are slowly but surely getting the prioriorites in the correct order, which is

Pedestrians
Wheeled Pedestrians (Cyclists, wheelchair users, buggies, skates etc)
Motorbikes,
Public Transport (including Taxi's etc)
Freight Transport
and finally, private cars !

For too many years the powers that be have allowed this list to be in reverse order

We are slowly but surely getting the prioriorites in the correct order, which is

Pedestrians
Wheeled Pedestrians (Cyclists, wheelchair users, buggies, skates etc)
Motorbikes,
Public Transport (including Taxi's etc)
Freight Transport
and finally, private cars !

Brains,

yes, i agree that that is how it should be: the slower and more vulnerable users who also take up less space and cause less traffic and require less parking should get the highest priority... a car should always have to yeild to a pedestrian b/c the auto driver is the one creating a safety risk

Germany is a mixed bag: often the protections for pedestrians and cyclists are very good with many areas marked pedestrain only or non-auto or whatever. BUT, i think because Germans love cars so much (home of BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche and the AUTOBAHN), in areas where pedestrains and cyclists are not normally found, auto drivers are often VERY inconsiderate of and hostile towards pedestrains and cyclists.

this morning i rode to work with my girlfriend in her car and in moderate traffic she approached a 90degree bend in the 2-lane residential road and 2 teenage boys had been waiting for traffic to clear enough to cross and walked across the road from the left as she approached. she saw them as they crossed the other lanes and instead of slowing a little to let them safely pass, she continued at 30km/h or whatever (coming out of curve). i alerted her to their presence in case she hadn't seen them and she still didn't slow and then the guys were "trapped" in the middle of the street on the center line as a car approached. one went ahead and crossed and the other waited so then she HAD to stop b/c a pedestrain was right in her path and the other kid went behind the car and the first continued in front and her only comment was "uh! there's a cross-walk right there" (over 100m away)! and she felt that since there was a marked crosswalk somewhere in the vicinity (to a car driver 100m is not so far but when crossing the street that's 200m+) where they were SUPPOSED to cross that she shouldn't have to yeild to them and slow down and wait maybe 10-15 seconds... sadly this is often the attitude in Germany: when there are marked crossings or lanes or whatever then auto drivers feel they should never be delayed or inconvenienced when pedestrains/cyclists don't use these facilities (another example is the unsafe sidewalk bike paths in Germany that are usually LEGALLY mandatory although MUCH more dangerous than riding in the street with cars: pedestrians, dogs, turning cars, parking cars, etc ---- when i find the path too dangerous and ride in the street cars often honk or honk and then point to the bike path - even when it is closed due to construction!)