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My wish came true, the Los Angeles Bicycle Coalition is in the process of a pilot sharrow program for Los Angeles.
http://www.cicle.org/cicle_content/pivot/entry.php?id=279#body
check out the article and vote in the survey if you live in Los Angeles.
In my opinion the sharrow is the way to go in communicating the rights of cyclists to be away from the curb without the whole wasted space of the bike lane. Not perfect, but an improvement to my eyes.
-Marcus
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Sharrows are controversial. Let me know how they work out for you.
I agree w/ Marcus, and I'm for sharrows. California (specifically SF) has led the way. Portland and Oregon have dragged their feet on this because it's not in the MUTCD yet. :rolleyes:
I've seen them in use in various settings and I think they work better than bike lanes, and they can be used on narrow ROWs w/o room for bike lanes. That can be important in older inner city areas w/ narrow ROWs.
IMO, Sharrows are better than nothing. But put them everywhere, and drivers will grow immune to them. At least there will be less "get out of the road!" If that happens, I can just point to the sign.
My wish came true, the Los Angeles Bicycle Coalition is in the process of a pilot sharrow program for Los Angeles.
As with bike lanes, sharrows have their opponents as well. The suggested placement of a sharrow is a minimum 11 feet from the curb, and this seems to be one of the primary areas of concern. The idea is that the suggested minimum 11 feet from the curb placement could still be putting the cyclist in the door zone. Considering the popularity of large vehicles, such as SUV.s, this does seem like a distinct possibility and indeed a cause for concern. It would be nice to see them placed a little further out from the curb so that cyclists aren’t being inadvertently led into the door zone.
More crap for my city of L.A.? The worst bike lanes were in Santa Monica where they are so close to the curb, the left tires of cars & SUVs would be on the white paint. Now what's this "sharrow" thing? I ride outside of the door zone anyways, painted bike lanes or "sharrows" be damned. This just looks like yet another attempt to segregate bicyclists off of the main street line bike lanes do.
Bike lanes and "sharrows" are not on the street for our benefits. No, they are painted on the street for the benefit of automobile drivers to have a clear road ahead of them without worrying about cyclists. This makes the drivers less attentive to slower vehicles (i.e. us bicyclists).
Look at the picture on the LACBC's web site:
http://www.labikecoalition.org/surveys/images/sharrow_bike.jpg
The street is more than wide enough. Why even paint a "sharrow" on the road? I hope my tax dollars aren't paying for this crap. That money would be better spent filling in all of the damn potholes and smoothing the cracked and torn up asphalt. Now that's something useful for safety - smooth streets.
-1 for my city of Los Angeles. :mad:
I can't really vote, I don't care where they paint them since I don't commute. My riding areas are residential. We'll see if it helps things out. Issues I have mostly in LA is people rolling through stop signs or stopping copmpletely and then shooting across when I have the right of way as if I weren't there.
hope those add visibility to bicycling in LA, Treespeed. Looks like a great program.
I see LOTS of benefits to bike sharrows and other accomodations on and along roadways.
Calling a sharrow an attempt at 'segregationism' is kneejerk and wholly innacurate, Mac.
The suggested placement of a sharrow is a minimum 11 feet from the curb, and this seems to be one of the primary areas of concern. The idea is that the suggested minimum 11 feet from the curb placement could still be putting the cyclist in the door zone.
?? I thought the whole point of sharrows was that they marked the entire lane as shared by bicycles, not that they were a replacement for bike lanes. Just because there's a picture of a bike and some arrows painted 11 feet from the curb does not indicate to me that I can't ride 12 or 14 feet from the curb.
That 11 foot thing has to be interpreted by the people laying down the paint. For instance, if there's no parking, just a lane right up to a curb, I wouldn't think the sharrow would be painted near the center line. If there's angle parking, I wouldn't think they'd paint it where the tails of the cars would cover them.
I'm interested in this, Treespeed. I'd rather have sharrows than a bike lane. I bet a sharrows lane is nice and clean compared to bike lanes.
Besides, after commuting to work a couple of times on my new bent, I really want all the space I can get! Recumbents aside, what bike lane designers sometimes don't take into consideration is that a bicycle cannot just bomb over small hazards like a car can. I sometimes feel I need just as much space as a car for side-to-side movememnt.
As with bike lanes, sharrows have their opponents as well. The suggested placement of a sharrow is a minimum 11 feet from the curb, and this seems to be one of the primary areas of concern. The idea is that the suggested minimum 11 feet from the curb placement could still be putting the cyclist in the door zone. Considering the popularity of large vehicles, such as SUV.s, this does seem like a distinct possibility and indeed a cause for concern. It would be nice to see them placed a little further out from the curb so that cyclists aren’t being inadvertently led into the door zone.
More crap for my city of L.A.? The worst bike lanes were in Santa Monica where they are so close to the curb, the left tires of cars & SUVs would be on the white paint. Now what's this "sharrow" thing? I ride outside of the door zone anyways, painted bike lanes or "sharrows" be damned. This just looks like yet another attempt to segregate bicyclists off of the main street line bike lanes do.
Bike lanes and "sharrows" are not on the street for our benefits. No, they are painted on the street for the benefit of automobile drivers to have a clear road ahead of them without worrying about cyclists. This makes the drivers less attentive to slower vehicles (i.e. us bicyclists).
Look at the picture on the LACBC's web site:
http://www.labikecoalition.org/surveys/images/sharrow_bike.jpg
The street is more than wide enough. Why even paint a "sharrow" on the road? I hope my tax dollars aren't paying for this crap. That money would be better spent filling in all of the damn potholes and smoothing the cracked and torn up asphalt. Now that's something useful for safety - smooth streets.
-1 for my city of Los Angeles. :mad:
Mac,
the city does fill in potholes all you have to do is e-mail them and they repair them within the week. I've had two repaired on my Venice Commute route already. Thankfully not every constituent has a line-item veto in what happens with, "their tax dollars." If they did we wouldn't be waging a holy war trying to bring about the Last Days prophecy on my dime that's for sure.
Despite your misgivings about Sharrows they are certainly a better alternative than a bike lane that would cut down on traffic space. But unlike all the VC pontifications Sharrows have actually been tested in the real world and shown to increase passing distance. The idea that if they are everywhere they would be ignored is ridiculous. We have lane lines and stop signs everywhere too and folks seem to obey those for the most part. In my opinion anything that increases motorist awareness of cyclists right to the road is a good thing. And if they get implemented Mac, I'll be sure to thank you for your contribution. :D
Placement is important. Portland wanted to place sharrows in the right wheel track. I think that's too close to the door zone and the markings will be worn off quickly (Oregon allows studded tires to be used ~ 6 months per year). IMO, a correctly positioned sharrow is in a center lane position between the two wheel tracks. I also think their best use is in lanes less than 12-13 feet wide, which affords a cyclist the whole lane; using them as a substitute for bike lanes on the right where lane widths are 14'+ is unnecessary and bad practice.
I encounter far more poorly designed and implemented bike lanes than good ones, so I personally would like it if the "sharrow" became the preferred on roadway cycling marking. The press release makes it sound like they actually improve motorist's behavior. Get rid of all bike lanes in the door zone or half in the gutter!
I would like to have sharrows all the way up and down Ortega Hill. They are putting in a bypass for cyclists so they dwon't have to use the hill. But I will have to continue to use the hill because my place of work is right at the top. Sharrows would really help if they can be put on the narrow lanes of this hill. That would make it crystal clear what exactly "share the road" means, especially if they actually put them 11 feet from the edge. Well, ok, maybe 5.5 feet since 11 would put them on the center divider line.
I would like to have sharrows all the way up and down Ortega Hill. They are putting in a bypass for cyclists so they dwon't have to use the hill. But I will have to continue to use the hill because my place of work is right at the top. Sharrows would really help if they can be put on the narrow lanes of this hill. That would make it crystal clear what exactly "share the road" means, especially if they actually put them 11 feet from the edge. Well, ok, maybe 5.5 feet since 11 would put them on the center divider line.
Painting sharrows and/or putting up 'bicycle' signs will be very important as more and more motorists learn about he bypass - as I will guess their tollerance of you and other cyclists on the road will go down.
Al
Mac,
the city does fill in potholes all you have to do is e-mail them and they repair them within the week. I've had two repaired on my Venice Commute route already.
Are you kidding? The main arterial street that I ride on has been patched and filled in so many times, it looks like a high school kid's face. We got flooded during the storm of last year and there are hundreds of potholes, ripped up asphalt, underfilled holes, overfilled holes, and thousands of cracks, a good majority of them 2 - 5" wide and 3" deep. I had to hang on tight last night during my commute home down the mountain and almost ate it a few times when I slammed into the potholes & cracks at 25mph.
I almost crashed my motorcycle making a left turn at a light on those streets. They underfilled a pothole then overfilled and created a hump like a sinewave. Since it's all black, you can't see it. Luckily I caught my balance in the middle of countersteering and zoomed off.
The city of LA is not going to repave miles and miles of roads just because I call up. Yet they will waste money on painting sharrows? The bike lane paintings in LA are terrible. I don't know how they painted it, but the outline of the letters and bicycle is about 1/2 inch or so raised. So get a big rumble whenever I ride over the words and picture and need to hang tight so my front wheel doesn't get thrown out.
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