Foo - City creatures vs Country folks

I was just thinking.....do you think it's easier for someone from a large metro area to get used to living out in the country or would it be easier for someone in the country to get used to living in the city?

Maybe I'm getting a bit older......but the quietness of suburbs are starting to appeal to me. And I would really appreciate driving since parking would not be an issue.

But at the same time, I can't picture myself living somewhere that I can't walk a few blocks to:

- the video store
- a bodega
- the dentist
- a hospital
- the vet
- public transportation
- elementary & middle school
- a pharmacy
- a pizzeria
- a fast food place....

and the list goes on........


What do you folks think? How about folks who lived both lives? Lets hear your opinions.

I want all of you city folks to stay there. :p I've lived both places, and while there are some attractions (like those that you have mentioned), on the whole, I'd prefer to live in the suburbs, or better yet, in a rural spot that's a couple miles outside of a town.

I despise city cycling, city crime, city congestion, city politics, and (sad to say) in most cities, I would be very reluctant to send my children to city schools (I say this having attended them for grades 6-12). On the other hand, someone who spends time in a city tends to be more exposed to people from a diversity of cultures, and has more opportunity to utilize museums, theatres, and other cultural institutions. I can see the attraction cities have for single people, but that hasn't described me since near the end of Reagan's first term.

I live in what you could consider the suburbs. I can ride my bike to most of the locations you mention within a few miles ride. On the flip side, I've got a friend who is so the 'city life' guy. While growing up the family had a lake home in the country. Couldn't see myself living somewhere like that year round though. Nice for a weekend to a few month stay during the summer though. I want to be on the outer edges of the suburbs (and for that edge to stay right there dang it) so I can be within short drives/rides to many things yet able to find country back roads quickly for riding on as well! :)

To answer your question - I think it would be easier for a city guy to go the country if he wanted that change.

Strange conundrum for me......
I think we NEED cities to be vibrant, cost effective and liveable
areas. Our government needs to put $$$ into revitalizing them.
Developers who build outside of city limits should be taxed hard and
that tax used as revitilization fundng. Developers who revitalize should
be given tax breaks. That being said......I couldnt live in a city. I hate
them. I would live like Grizzly Adams in the wilderness in a tent foraging
with the sasquatches before I lived in a city.
I think a city person would miss the conveniences of having stuff close by
but the riding and peacefulness of country living they would come to enjoy
over time making up for the lack of convenience.

I'd lose my mind in the suburbs. Personally, I like the convenience of the city simply because I don't need a car or even a bike. I can walk, take public transportation or cab it whenever I need to go somewhere. A bike's just an extra method of transportation that extends my travel range. There's good food, diversity, culture, music, art, etc. and you can to it all easily. This past summer I saw two Shakespeare plays for free, went to the opera and philharmonic for free and saw some free concerts. As for schools, there's good ones and bad ones. I went to an excellent public h.s. that consistently placed prize winners in the Westinghouse and later the Intel Science Competitions.

I like developers who build outside of the city. San Antonio to me is a fine example of people doing this and the traffic is 100 times more manageable then traffic in Austin.
San Antonio has 2-3 times as many people. Developers are now developing majorly on the outside of san antonio and so if you want to hop to the latest (insert some fancy place to buy designer clothes or hardwood floors or wal-mart) you dont have to go all the way into san antonio, you simply can be on the outer limits and hop onto the outer loop and bam you're within miles of budding shopping malls and development.

Honestly I don't think its possible, nor do I think that developers want to revitlaize the inner cities. Most inner cities of big towns end up being run down and attracting unsavory characters. You could tear the buildings down, Youcould rebuild but the unsavory characters would still be there and they would destroy and steal while the reconstruction was being done and after everything was finished, if it was finished.

It would be nice if the city could cleans itself, but in today's world it's not possible outside of the drawing board.

Having grown up on farms and suburbs and then moving to the city I have to say I prefer cities but don't mind a mixture. Having everything at your fingertips is extremely appealing for the younger generation imho.

Honestly I don't think its possible, nor do I think that developers want to revitlaize the inner cities. Most inner cities of big towns end up being run down and attracting unsavory characters. You could tear the buildings down, Youcould rebuild but the unsavory characters would still be there and they would destroy and steal while the reconstruction was being done and after everything was finished, if it was finished.

It would be nice if the city could cleans itself, but in today's world it's not possible outside of the drawing board.
Rather than disagree, I'll just point an exception: NYC. As some of us remember, the city was on the verge of bankruptcy in the late 70's. Crime was rampant, the Bronx was burning and movies like Escape from New York and The Warriors reflected the city's doom. Obviously, it's not like that now, although you'd be surprised at how many people that haven't been there since, if ever, still think it is. Crime's down, property values are way up, schools are improving, etc. There's always improvements to be made, but as long as that's recognized, we'll always be trying to improve the city.

Rather than disagree, I'll just point an exception: NYC. As some of us remember, the city was on the verge of bankruptcy in the late 70's. Crime was rampant, the Bronx was burning and movies like Escape from New York and The Warriors reflected the city's doom. Obviously, it's not like that now, although you'd be surprised at how many people that haven't been there since, if ever, still think it is. Crime's down, property values are way up, schools are improving, etc. There's always improvements to be made, but as long as that's recognized, we'll always be trying to improve the city.
I'd imagine something like NYC would have to do that - You have 8 million people there don't you?

My experience is partly based upon cities like San Antonio, Austin, Bismark, Albequerque and what I've noted of human nature. I will also point out that I wouldn't be suprised if it's easier to clean up a northern city then it is a southern city. I've noticed that colder weather seems to be a deterrent to some of the riff raff that is capable of surviving down in southern areas because of our extremely mild winters.

There's good food, diversity, culture, music, art, etc. and you can to it all easily. This past summer I saw two Shakespeare plays for free, went to the opera and philharmonic for free and saw some free concerts.

Any reason someone in the burbs could not see those same shows or go to those same restaurants? Your statement points up something that I have noticed about urban folks: they seem to have an insatiable desire to be entertained.

I have lived in the city and found it to be frustrating and horribly inconvenient.

Well it its an average sized suburb, it would probably only take you about 1-4 miles to all those places. Not too bad.:D

I'd imagine something like NYC would have to do that - You have 8 million people there don't you?
Used to be 7 million. Don't forget cities like Boston, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. They're all pretty big too and in pretty good condition.



Any reason someone in the burbs could not see those same shows or go to those same restaurants? Your statement points up something that I have noticed about urban folks: they seem to have an insatiable desire to be entertained.

I have lived in the city and found it to be frustrating and horribly inconvenient.
Anyone can see the shows I went to cuz they're free. And anyone can go to the restaurants. However, since I live here, I can walk to these places instead of have to drive or take the LIRR or Metro North and then the subway. Part of what I enjoy is that there's a huge choice of restaurants aside from the usual chain-restaurant fair. As for an insatiable appetite for entertainment, it's a social activity that you do with friends and can enjoy. Also, it's a pretty unfair generalization to say urban folks have an insatiable desire to be entertained. People everywhere, cities, suburbs, etc., like to go to movies or have bbq's, church socials, fairs, etc. Those are forms of entertainment as well as social gatherings.

As for my experience, it's been the exact opposite. It's been incredibly convenient.

Used to be 7 million. Don't forget cities like Boston, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. They're all pretty big too and in pretty good condition.



Anyone can see the shows I went to cuz they're free. And anyone can go to the restaurants. However, since I live here, I can walk to these places instead of have to drive or take the LIRR or Metro North and then the subway. Part of what I enjoy is that there's a huge choice of restaurants aside from the usual chain-restaurant fair. As for an insatiable appetite for entertainment, it's a social activity that you do with friends and can enjoy. Also, it's a pretty unfair generalization to say urban folks have an insatiable desire to be entertained. People everywhere, cities, suburbs, etc., like to go to movies or have bbq's, church socials, fairs, etc. Those are forms of entertainment as well as social gatherings.

As for my experience, it's been the exact opposite. It's been incredibly convenient.

I think Olebiker is a tad older then both of us :p
I see myself tiring of the city within a decade or 2
My livelong retirement dream would be to retire to the mountains. Log cabin with T3 access buried up in the forest.

Honestly I don't think its possible, nor do I think that developers want to revitlaize the inner cities. Most inner cities of big towns end up being run down and attracting unsavory characters. You could tear the buildings down, Youcould rebuild but the unsavory characters would still be there and they would destroy and steal while the reconstruction was being done and after everything was finished, if it was finished.

It would be nice if the city could cleans itself, but in today's world it's not possible outside of the drawing board.
I beg to differ.

I live smack-dab in the center of Downtown Dallas. The building I live in is 100 years old, and was re-purposed into lofts from retail/offices in the late-1990s after about 15 years of sitting vacant. There are two vacant buildings outside my window that two separate developers are going to convert into condominiums (one with office/retail on the lower floors). Another building a block away that has sat vacant for at least a decade has just begun the conversion to retail/loft apartments by a third developer. Two other buildings a block away in another direction are in the process of being converted to retail/loft apartments (by yet a 4th developer), and they're constructing a third to go along with them. Two other loft apartment/retail properties were opened just this past year by other developers. And that's just in the immediate vicinity to my loft, there are others I could list, but I'm sure you get my point by now. In addition to all this new residential development, there has been new retail going in to existing buildings that have sat vacant for years. An athletic shoe store, three high-end clothing stores, a furniture/furnishings retailer and a winery have all opened in the last year. I can think of at least 4 restaurants that opened in the last 12 months or so, and am aware of at least 3 others in the works, and I'm not talking weekday-lunch-only restaurants. A full-service grocery store also opened this past year, so Downtown residents can now walk to get groceries, rather than fight traffic and parking to go to the next nearest grocery store 2-3 miles away (outside of Downtown). They're revitalizing the West End and the new Victory area (where the American Airlines Center is), and have a new homeless services center in the works on the other end of Downtown.

As for the original question, I've lived in rural areas, as well as the big city, and pretty much every type in between. I think it would be much more difficult to go from big-city living to rural life than vice-versa. Suburban life wouldn't be that much of a stretch, because of the "standardization" of the nation with Starbucks, WalMart, McDonalds, Chilis, Old Navy, etc., etc. About the only thing one would miss would be the funky, out-of-the-way neighborhood shops (like the best place for a falafel with a side of hummus and a bobaganoosh). Rural to Urban takes some getting used to, but I began to wonder how I ever lived without ready access to certain aspects of urban living.

Apologies for the long-winded response, but urban renewal is a subject near and dear to my heart.

I think Olebiker is a tad older then both of us :p
I see myself tiring of the city within a decade or 2
My livelong retirement dream would be to retire to the mountains. Log cabin with T3 access buried up in the forest.
I can't see myself tiring of the city, but my lifelong retirement dream is to be Anna Nicole Smith's ex-husband. Rich, senile, and married to someone who wouldn't notice.

Used to be 7 million. Don't forget cities like Boston, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. They're all pretty big too and in pretty good condition.



Anyone can see the shows I went to cuz they're free. And anyone can go to the restaurants. However, since I live here, I can walk to these places instead of have to drive or take the LIRR or Metro North and then the subway. Part of what I enjoy is that there's a huge choice of restaurants aside from the usual chain-restaurant fair. As for an insatiable appetite for entertainment, it's a social activity that you do with friends and can enjoy. Also, it's a pretty unfair generalization to say urban folks have an insatiable desire to be entertained. People everywhere, cities, suburbs, etc., like to go to movies or have bbq's, church socials, fairs, etc. Those are forms of entertainment as well as social gatherings.

As for my experience, it's been the exact opposite. It's been incredibly convenient.
I am pretty sure that all of the above cities and NYC have the same type of slums and bad areas that really can't be developed just like San Antonio, just like every other place. The amount and ratio varies of course.

I can't see myself tiring of the city, but my lifelong retirement dream is to be Anna Nicole Smith's ex-husband. Rich, senile, and married to someone who wouldn't notice.
You probably have a whole lot of discovering yourself and the world then :p

I am pretty sure that all of the above cities and NYC have the same type of slums and bad areas that really can't be developed just like San Antonio, just like every other place. The amount and ratio varies of course.
Yup, we've got slums, but even the slums aren't the slums anymore. The buildings that got burned during the 70's are where new housing for low and middle income have been built. In fact, part of the revitalization has been small business ownership by people in the neighborhood along with a mix of flagship brands like the Gap, Target and Starbucks. Other slums have been gentrified by younger people looking for cheaper places with more space. They bring with them their own entrepreneurial spirit, opening shops, restaurants, bars, music clubs, etc. And even other slums are being gentrified by the people that grew up in them. Rather than making good and leaving for the suburbs, they've stayed in the neighborhoods they grew up in and revitalized the neighborhood.

Other slums have been gentrified by younger people looking for cheaper places with more space. They bring with them their own entrepreneurial spirit, opening shops, restaurants, bars, music clubs, etc.
They're called Yuppies.....and they bring your value of your property from $150k to $800k within a few years (check out Williamsburg). :)

Look at Jersey City. When I worked there back in 2001, an apartment for rent was around $650 - $750 (near the water). Right now in 2006, that same apartment goes for $1,800+

I should have purchased a place in JC back then (now that Goldman Sachs is there......the value of property will sky rocket even more).

I bet within a few years, Newark will be hopping! Great access to public transportation to the City, cheap housing cost.....once the yuppies move in, property value will sky rocket!

My livelong retirement dream would be to retire to the mountains. Log cabin with T3 access buried up in the forest.

You might as well spring for an OC-3. Here's an interesting note on that point. The cost to pull copper out to such remote locations is about the same as for pulling fibre. The installation cost for actually lighting that copper up as a T3/DS3 is however more expensive than operating an OC-3 along the same distance because a DS3 circuit requires repeaters every 450 feet while LR lasers can shoot out to 100 miles or more over SMF before they'll need an optical amplifier to regen the light. Now once you get into the city where the chances that you'll be close enough to be within the first-mile local loop of a CO are higher, the opex prices on copper based access become dramatically cheaper when compared to a glass-based connection. I'm willing to bet that if you asked for a DS-3 all the way out in the boonies, the carrier would probably just hand you off an OC-3 channelised down and demuxed to DS3 so that only the last repeaterless segment to your CPE actually rides copper.

I think its easier for someone to move from the country to the suburbs... especially if they aren't home at all. I used to live out in the middle of no where with the worst roads for biking and everything was 2-3 miles away. Even the gas station. Now I live in the suburbs of Boise where two gas stations are half a block, Target/the grocery store/the high school/Starbucks/Block Buster/Maggie Moo's icecream/Pizza Hut/Subway/dry cleaners/USPS ect are a 10 minute bike ride through neigbhorhoods or bike trails. Plus the YMCA and the park are viewable in my front window. There's a skatepark across the street too. Plus 3-4 fast food chains, 3 strip malls, and 4 schools all on the same block. I have access to everything yet I'm right next door to nature about 20 minutes away on the bike. The suburbs are perfect.

I think its easier for someone to move from the country to the suburbs... especially if they aren't home at all. I used to live out in the middle of no where with the worst roads for biking and everything was 2-3 miles away. Even the gas station. Now I live in the suburbs of Boise where two gas stations are half a block, Target/the grocery store/the high school/Starbucks/Block Buster/Maggie Moo's icecream/Pizza Hut/Subway/dry cleaners/USPS ect are a 10 minute bike ride through neigbhorhoods or bike trails. Plus the YMCA and the park are viewable in my front window. There's a skatepark across the street too. Plus 3-4 fast food chains, 3 strip malls, and 4 schools all on the same block. I have access to everything yet I'm right next door to nature about 20 minutes away on the bike. The suburbs are perfect.


^^^^ Ha Ha...this is all stuff I tried to avoid !
The first house I bought was in the 'Burbs and we had a 'For Sale'
sign back on it a whole 9 months later. There is a 'Burb mentality
and unwritten laws you must abide by to live in them comfortably :roflmao: ...
Some people do it very well, others like myself cant do it for even a minute.
I have come to grips with the fact that I just dont like being around people
equaly as much as I love nature and tranquility. I love having to ride miles
before coming upon 'conveniences'. In Vermont threre are cultural activities
in the little one stop-lite towns and the bus is free, so getting out to do stimulating
stuff is never a problem, you just need to plan a little more travel time.
My next move will be the coast of northern Maine.

I have lived in all: Urban, Suburb, and Rural.

Urban is very fun, but in the end, I am a nature girl.

The suburbs are souless places with clueless disgusting people.

Large Metro Area?

City?

Suburbs?

What are all of these?

What qualifies as a large metro area? The reason i ask, is because there are so many different degrees. I grew up in a town of 120 people. I now live in a town of roughly 50,000. So to me and those where I come from, I now live in "the city."

I have never lived in a larger city but of course have traveled to many. I hate them and am very uncomfortable in any city bigger than i am currently living in. Sometimes I don't like living in a city even this size but it is nice to be able to buy a gallon of milk in the same city in which you live. Couldn't do that where i grew up. ;)

So to address your question, personally i think that both parties would have trouble adjusting. It would really depend on the individual. An introverted quiet person from the city may adjust very well to life in rural, quiet America while an extroverted partier from the country, might love the new found spoils of the city.

One thing that i personally believe is that there is a LOT more depression in small, rural America. One of the biggest industries in the small county i grew up in is Mental Health. THey just built a large new, mental health center. I think the lack of stimulus leads to depression for a lot of those folks. It never really bothered me the 25 years i lived there, then again I was drunk most of the time. :)

The suburbs are souless places with clueless disgusting people.

Sounds like my job...

The country sucks. Stay away from it, all you city dwellers!!!

I couldnt live in a city. I hate
them. I would live like Grizzly Adams in the wilderness in a tent foraging
with the sasquatches before I lived in a city.
I think a city person would miss the conveniences of having stuff close by
but the riding and peacefulness of country living they would come to enjoy
over time making up for the lack of convenience.


Wow, your response surprises me :beer:

Come on people, country people can go to a museum once in awhile too LOL

Sorry for the long and scattered post.
This is a completely emotional response, based on my experience.
My wife and I moved to rural, East Texas a few years into our marriage. We had 8 acres, a barn and pond. I really enjoyed the easy access to hiking and boating. It was quiet and beautiful...

And it was the loneliest I've ever felt. My being way to the left of center and not a Christian left me with no one with which to relate. My wife, being a Methodist and somewhat closer to center, politically speaking, felt a bit more at ease, there. We both got involved with several community groups and even some township politics. Looking back now, that may have been a mistake. I grew more bitter and intolerant of what seemed like small-minded, small-town thinking. I was ecstatic when we moved back to Big D.

Dallas is no bastion of progressive thinking, but simply by sheer numbers, I find more folks who think similarly to myself.

That being said, other than my wife and kids, I don't spend much time with people outside of work. This may sound like a contradiction to my earlier statement, (i.e. - How could I NOT feel lonely in the city, since I don't spend time with people?). What can I say, I'm sort of a social ******. I like being alone around a lot of people. Kind of staying anonymous in a crowd, I guess. I have always enjoyed using mass transit, (my wife thinks I'm weird for this), but I don't want to visit with others on the bus/train.

I also find it rather depressing to go through many small towns, late at night. I like being in areas that are at least open, if not active, around the clock.

My wife homeschools our three kids, so school environment is not an issue for us.

I like being alone around a lot of people. Kind of staying anonymous in a crowd, I guess. I.

Why?

To observe. I love being alone around A LOT of drunk people. They get me rolling on the floor.

I like being alone around a lot of people. Kind of staying anonymous in a crowd, I guess.Why?

I'm not sure, really. I'm pretty uncomfortable in most social situations. I've got decent coping skills, (I tend to mostly tell stories when around crowds), but I'd rather avoid them. I'll probably end up as that "entertaining" uncle who has a million tales about life, whom you only see at family reunions and weddings :) .

On the other hand, I don't like being totally alone. I guess the human instinct to herd-up and exist in a community is still bouncing around inside my being, somewhere.

An oxymoron? Maybe. Or maybe I'm just a moron :p .

The suburbs are souless places with clueless disgusting people.

Excuse me. Did you really mean that to be as insulting as it is?

Let me quote something to you from Tom Martinson in his book, "American Dreamscape":
"There is an ample array of academic and even professional planning literature that sets out reasons why cities are better than suburbs: socially, culturally, economically, politically and, especially, physically. You would have to agree with these arguments - if you accept the values, assumptions, and criteria applied by the urbanists. But many Americans clearly hold very different personal values and interests from those embraced by urbanists, and so they appear to be unimpressed by such arguments."

Excuse me. Did you really mean that to be as insulting as it is?

."


Consider the source, Olebiker.

Sorry for the long and scattered post.
This is a completely emotional response, based on my experience.
My wife and I moved to rural, East Texas a few years into our marriage. We had 8 acres, a barn and pond. I really enjoyed the easy access to hiking and boating. It was quiet and beautiful...

And it was the loneliest I've ever felt. My being way to the left of center and not a Christian left me with no one with which to relate. My wife, being a Methodist and somewhat closer to center, politically speaking, felt a bit more at ease, there. We both got involved with several community groups and even some township politics. Looking back now, that may have been a mistake. I grew more bitter and intolerant of what seemed like small-minded, small-town thinking. I was ecstatic when we moved back to Big D.

Dallas is no bastion of progressive thinking, but simply by sheer numbers, I find more folks who think similarly to myself.

That being said, other than my wife and kids, I don't spend much time with people outside of work. This may sound like a contradiction to my earlier statement, (i.e. - How could I NOT feel lonely in the city, since I don't spend time with people?). What can I say, I'm sort of a social ******. I like being alone around a lot of people. Kind of staying anonymous in a crowd, I guess. I have always enjoyed using mass transit, (my wife thinks I'm weird for this), but I don't want to visit with others on the bus/train.

I also find it rather depressing to go through many small towns, late at night. I like being in areas that are at least open, if not active, around the clock.

My wife homeschools our three kids, so school environment is not an issue for us.

You sound a lot like me MMach. Where i grew up I generally never fit in. Most conversations centered around agriculture and cattle. I can remember sitting in the bar, many, many nights in my early twenties surrounded by men wearing dirty, manure stained coveralls, who could spend a whole night talking about cattle.

I am amazed that the preponderance of the responses have been focused on "Big city vs. suburbs." If I read the original post correctly the comparison was "City vs. Country." Looks as if not many here have a clue on true country life/existence.

From the posts so far I do not believe that city raised folks could adjust to work/life in the country. Country folks could adjust with less effort.

From the posts so far I do not believe that city raised folks could adjust to work/life in the country. Country folks could adjust with less effort.

I was so grateful when we finally starved off that farm in Sunfish, Kentucky and my Dad got a job at the Ford plant in Louisville. I don't miss going to the barn to milk (by hand) or stripping tobacco.

http://www.maggiore.net/greenacres/images/Anim_Homepage.gif

The kind of suburb that I like is deffinitely not the "same house next to the exact same house, next to the exact same house... you get the picture" suburb. I like those little towns that were once far from the city but because of the sprawl found themselves considered a 'suburb'. They have their little center with pubs and little stores and small coffee shops and folks that know each other. Some of these places become 'popular' soon enough and loose that but not all of them.

Anyway, I like TexasGuy's idea of an isolated cabin up in the mountains. However, I'm not yet at the stage in my life when I'm ready for it.

The kind of suburb that I like is deffinitely not the "same house next to the exact same house, next to the exact same house... you get the picture" suburb. I like those little towns that were once far from the city but because of the sprawl found themselves considered a 'suburb'. They have their little center with pubs and little stores and small coffee shops and folks that know each other. Some of these places become 'popular' soon enough and loose that but not all of them.

I think you definitely have to look pretty hard to find that type of suburbs where every house looks exactly the same. Most of the "suburbs" that I have lived in during my surburb living time were where the city had sprawled , was getting ready to sprawl or where the people that didnt wanna deal with the sprawl moved a bit farther out.


Anyway, I like TexasGuy's idea of an isolated cabin up in the mountains. However, I'm not yet at the stage in my life when I'm ready for it.
Neither am I :p I think that's probably a decade or two or three away.

From the posts so far I do not believe that city raised folks could adjust to work/life in the country. Country folks could adjust with less effort.


I think it's more age dependent then anything.

You sound a lot like me MMach. Where i grew up I generally never fit in. Most conversations centered around agriculture and cattle. I can remember sitting in the bar, many, many nights in my early twenties surrounded by men wearing dirty, manure stained coveralls, who could spend a whole night talking about cattle.
We are a very disconnected people.

1 1/2 million people in San Antonio and I have not found one group that I can relate to, relate with or hang out with in the slightest bit.

Ive lived in both, and in several places across the US. I like both, but given the choice its either downtown in a medium sized city, ie 1 million people, or out in the country. I loathe suburbs. I live downtown now, and its very clean and safe. They even have a team of people that literally clean the downtown area 7 days a week 24/7.......and I mean clean, sweep up even small debris off the roads and sidewalks. Local downtown businesses pay for it. The glut of empty office space has all of sudden undergone gentrification with condos replacing some of it. Columbus is actually a quaint little city, I enjoy it here. Traffic in the burbs sucks, but I dont live there nor do I drive. The neighborhood I live in is at the edge of the oldest part of the city, lots of old and huge victorians. Sure urban blight took its toll, but its recovering. Everything I need is within a couple miles for the most part, and as a bike messenger the city is easy to deal with and cheap to live in. The streets are wide and clean, traffic is low. I rather enjoy the fact that many fear and hate downtown, but once you learn how it works and where everything is it makes life quite simple actually. Biking everywhere makes it easy, its well suited to that. Its a good place to live and work, but if I retire ever, it will be out in BFE somewhere about 20 miles from a town.

Rural towns for the win. I live in fruitland idaho population 4,000. We have 1 highschool and you can see the west city limit sign if your standing by the east city limit sign (ok maybe with binoculars but its still not very far)

We have a walmart in the niegherboring city and thats about all we need. seriously walmart is everything. When we are bored we go to walmart to hang out. my friends and i spent new years eve in the walmart parking lot. After dances the cool thing to do is going walk around walmart at 1 in the morning. The only real forms of entertainment are a movie theater and a bowling ally.

about the cops
the bad thing is...they all know you by name
the good thing is...they all know you by name
depending on the situation.

about the cops
the bad thing is...they all know you by name
the good thing is...they all know you by name
depending on the situation.

When we got transferred from Louisville to Denver 20 years ago I met a lady who had grown up in Louisville. She said she couldn't wait to get out of there because "everyone knows your business." I told her that my take on that was to do nothing illegal or embarrassing and it doesn't matter if everybody knows your business.

I have lived in the suburbs all of my life. Once I'm done with college I will be moving to a very rural place. (Exactly where depends on who is hiring). How well someone can adapt from one to the other depends on their personality. I happen to be from a long line of hicks, which has a few relatives including myself living in the city. Its in my nature that I hate cities, and I look forward to leaving my crappy apartment and moving to the country in just as soon as I'm done with college.

Rural towns for the win. I live in fruitland idaho population 4,000. We have 1 highschool and you can see the west city limit sign if your standing by the east city limit sign (ok maybe with binoculars but its still not very far)

We have a walmart in the niegherboring city and thats about all we need. seriously walmart is everything. When we are bored we go to walmart to hang out. my friends and i spent new years eve in the walmart parking lot. After dances the cool thing to do is going walk around walmart at 1 in the morning. .

Heh heh, you're either a good troll, or you don't know that the Politically Correct consensus
is that Walmart is the bane of modern existence..LOL.

It's just a big store, people.

... with a BIG parking lot! Where else can you go to do donuts safely when you're drunk?

Heh heh, you're either a good troll, or you don't know that the Politically Correct consensus
is that Walmart is the bane of modern existence..LOL.

It's just a big store, people.
It's more then "just a big store". It's pretty much all you need to survive :) and they lived the American dream. Start off as a tiny nobody and work your way to being one of the biggest retail chains in America with the ability to swing your clout just about anywhere you want to. Of course people are going to hate on you :)

I like developers who build outside of the city. San Antonio to me is a fine example of people doing this and the traffic is 100 times more manageable then traffic in Austin.
San Antonio has 2-3 times as many people. Developers are now developing majorly on the outside of san antonio and so if you want to hop to the latest (insert some fancy place to buy designer clothes or hardwood floors or wal-mart) you dont have to go all the way into san antonio, you simply can be on the outer limits and hop onto the outer loop and bam you're within miles of budding shopping malls and development.

Honestly I don't think its possible, nor do I think that developers want to revitlaize the inner cities. Most inner cities of big towns end up being run down and attracting unsavory characters. You could tear the buildings down, Youcould rebuild but the unsavory characters would still be there and they would destroy and steal while the reconstruction was being done and after everything was finished, if it was finished.

It would be nice if the city could cleans itself, but in today's world it's not possible outside of the drawing board.

Dallas/Ft. Worth are working on redeveloping their inner cities as people are getting tired of the long-@ss commutes from the suburbs. They built the commuter trains and the West End of Dallas is pretty cool. New Orleans' older sections are being revamped by brave souls that want to live close in and not fight that traffic over the bridge.

Go ahead and move out into the suburbs. That strip mall and/or mega mall complex will be there in just a few years. You still won't be able to walk to it and the traffic and the noise will be increased but if you just hop into your car, you'll get there. Yuck.

My neighborhood is in high demand because it's very close in, I can walk or ride my bike to anything except work. It's only three miles to get onto an 8 lane interstate to take me the next 5 miles to work. (I'd ride my bike to work but there's no showers and that's a most definite necessity here in Alabama)

Go ahead and move out into the suburbs. That strip mall and/or mega mall complex will be there in just a few years. You still won't be able to walk to it and the traffic and the noise will be increased but if you just hop into your car, you'll get there. Yuck.



Let's see, I can hop in the car and drive 3 miles to the grocery, buy a week's worth of groceries, drive three miles back home, park in my driveway, carry the groceries in and don't go to the grocery again for a week. The whole process took an hour yesterday. Or, I can live in town, walk to a mom and pop grocery because there are no supermarkets in town, pay half again as much as I would have at the supermarket, only be able to buy a couple of days' worth of groceries because that's all I can haul, walk back home with the ice cream melting. Repeat every two to three days. My time is too valuable to waste on repeated trips to the store. I could be home posting on BF.

There is a lot less traffic in my suburb and a LOT less noise than in town. My wife called this morning from Washington, DC. She has hardly slept for the last two nights because of all the noise. She is staying in a nice hotel near the Capitol and says the area is overrun with homeless. I just don't see the appeal of living in that environment.