weird psychological thing about cars

[TuckertonRR]

Can anybody explain this, or have there been studies on this -

people get goofy when they're in a car (not just road rage) - being a pedestrian or on a bicycle, and look (or stare) at people inside their cages....they tend to get FREAKED OUT.

My hypothesis is that if I'm ina cage, I'm "safe" and everyone around me is an "enemy" or the "other"...by making eye contact, it's not two human beings, it's me (in my steel cage) against you some "enemy, non-person 'other'". You can look at people walking on the street (from another walker) and you don't get that same reaction.

For an example, fights don't daily break out in midtown manhattan on the street between pedestrians, but cagers are constantly beeping at each other and flipping each other off.

[cerewa]

You remind me of the fact that, driving in "bad neighborhoods," people I know and respect feel the need to lock their car doors. Meanwhile I walk or ride my bike in these same neighborhoods, and so do some of my car-free friends.

The world looks dangerous when you give yourself the illusion that you're separated from a lot of the dangers.

[TuckertonRR]

I know what you mean, but if I'm driving I always lock the doors, but that's just me.

[gwd]

Can anybody explain this, or have there been studies on this -

people get goofy when they're in a car (not just road rage) - being a pedestrian or on a bicycle, and look (or stare) at people inside their cages....they tend to get FREAKED OUT.

My hypothesis is that if I'm ina cage, I'm "safe" and everyone around me is an "enemy" or the "other"...by making eye contact, it's not two human beings, it's me (in my steel cage) against you some "enemy, non-person 'other'". You can look at people walking on the street (from another walker) and you don't get that same reaction.

For an example, fights don't daily break out in midtown manhattan on the street between pedestrians, but cagers are constantly beeping at each other and flipping each other off.
In his book "The Face Of Battle" John Keegan mentions a study of wounds inflicted between different types of soldiers at Waterloo. It shows that soldiers on horseback were more likely to inflict unnecessary pain on foot soldiers. This effect was known at the time autos were introduced and a similar disdain had been predicted to be shown by car people towards pedestrians. TuckertonRR makes a good point about breaking through that psychological barrier. A car free friend likes to use friendly waves, just a simple acknowledgement of our mutual humanity. For example, when a car person is laying on the horn and yelling "get on the sidewalk!", wave like the driver is a long lost friend.

[thebankman]

There's definitely something about cars that makes people feel a false sense of security, like they were at their home with the blinds closed when suddenly they realize they're not at home, they're driving an automobile and it's completely different. I think it's tied to the "my penis is bigger than yours and I want to prove it" mentality of some auto drivers.

[AlanK]

This has been discussed in other threads, just FYI. There's have some interesting studies about the psychological effects of driving. When you are in a vehicle, you are in an enclosed physical space. Consequently, this physical isolation also leads to emotional isolation: you become emotionally detached from your immediated environment. In this psychological state, everything around you becomes an inanimate object - including other humans. When an individual thinks of others as obstacles rather than people, it's much easier to treat with hostility and callousness.

When you are walking or bicycling, you have a more immediate connection with your environment: Hear the wind blowing, the leaves rustling, you see other people's faces and hear their words as you walk by. This state of mind is more conducive to amicable interaction than driving.

[closetbiker]

That was my thought. People are isolated in autos. This also explains (partly) why motorists think cycling is "dangerous". There is an absence of that real world interaction, like the wind in your face, sounds of the road, etc. in the car that you get on the bike, so the perception is the cyclist is taking more of a risk because he is feeling these things whereas the motorist is removed from thre reality of the road and feels sedate and safe based on this isolation.

Another example. It may feel scary on the roller coaster, but it's a lot more safe than the drive to the amusement park in the car.

[oilfreeandhappy]

In his book "The Face Of Battle" John Keegan mentions a study of wounds inflicted between different types of soldiers at Waterloo. It shows that soldiers on horseback were more likely to inflict unnecessary pain on foot soldiers. This effect was known at the time autos were introduced and a similar disdain had been predicted to be shown by car people towards pedestrians. TuckertonRR makes a good point about breaking through that psychological barrier. A car free friend likes to use friendly waves, just a simple acknowledgement of our mutual humanity. For example, when a car person is laying on the horn and yelling "get on the sidewalk!", wave like the driver is a long lost friend.

Good advice GWD. I always try to show my teeth when I ride up to intersections. It gives the allusion that you're having a fun time, and I believe it encourages others to ride. When I wave, I give a big arm wave, otherwise it could be confused with a finger.

[jamesdenver]

i alway consider that when in the grocery store, if some carts get jammed up in an isle, or someone cuts me off, no one curses and gives each other the finger, even if mildy annoyed.

same with "heavy traffic" exiting an auditorium or something. congestion, and responses to minor rude behavior, like getting cut off with a shopping cart, do not elicit the mentally or phsyically violent emotions some people have when in cars

[twochins]

great post...getting near the heart of the matter...anyway, i always get looks from people in cars like i'm some sort of animal or non-human at least...but i must add that i have a bad habit of ignoring the humanity that is inside cars...i look at them like theme similarly, i know, bad habit

[cyclezealot]

People say a car is an extension of one's sexuality. Seems a logical extension of one's psychology. As they say no fool like an old fool.

[chicbicyclist]

I was at the grocery store today. I haven't ridden in a car in about a week or so since mine broke down. I asked my dad since he was the one driving and gonna go into the grocery store with me to just buy me the stuff I need and I'll just wait in the car. When I was waiting, I felt like, indeed, I am detahced from my surrounding, almost as if i'm looking out of my window from my place. It was such a surreal experience and revelation.

[Thor29]

I think its a matter of control. People feel very powerless in our modern world. In your car you have this little mini world that is all yours. Cars also have this magical ability to transport you long distances while encased in your comfortable little abode. The car also becomes an extension of your physical body and you feel like a god. But your god like power is threatened when some other person interupts your flow and impedes your progress. This makes you angry. How dare these mere mortals slow me down!!! I shall smite them!!!

[cyclezealot]

THor. I Fear you hit the nail on the head. Such transient power gives mortals powers they don't really have. Smitting someone is anti-social behavior. And it seems all too true.

[misteralz]

Cars are meant for roads. Pedestrians are meant for pavements - pedestrians don't pay road tax and neither do cyclists. Yet the cyclists I always seem to encounter seem to use both, which pisses off both groups. "yes, I'm on a bike, I can run a red light since there's nothing coming"...
If I want to go out on the bike, I'll shove it in the back of the GTI and take it to where I want to go, then take it for a blast...

[cyclezealot]

Misteralz. I see no signs that cyclists break traffic laws any greater rate than the general public. Considering what I see from the general motoring public- I would say it is far less. Many of us hate cars, why we don't have cars or prefer bikes.
It does us all a lot of community good to keep the cars parked in terms of traffic and congestion. That's why we prefer bikes.
Pedestarians don't necessarily pay taxes to use a sidewalk , but we are all promised the freedom to use our transportation of choice. Considering the need for new roads and traffic, not using a car is surely saving the public additional.
I feel the public's real reaction to cyclist's presence is not so much taxes, but that they drive so careless , they can't have any additional objects in their way to inconvenience them, since many so easily mame or injure anything in sight. And god forbid they might have to not press down so hard on the gas peddle.

[misteralz]

That made no sense to me?
But when I see a family of four out in city centre traffic - two adults and two young children - not wearing helmets and teaching their children to weave in and out of traffic, I'm deliberately gonna pull right into the side at a red light to block their passage. They can wait, and instill some road sense into their kids.

[closetbiker]

misteralz, roads are built on public land, owned by the public, to be used by all the public.

Known in 1880 as the League of American Wheelmen, the League of American Bicyclists was instrumental in getting our nation's roads paved in the first place.

Bicycles also are the reason most of our right-of-way rules exist. Second on the scene, the first automobiles were confined to these roads and rules.

(from http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/free.htm)

The roads in the United States are Public Roads. You do not have to pay any taxes at all to use them. You do not have to buy a license or pass a test either. You can walk, you can ride a horse, you can drive a buggy, and you can drive a farm tractor legally in every state without paying one red cent. On the other hand, owners of automobiles, trucks, and motorcycles are required to pass driving tests and to buy licenses. Why? These vehicles cause a lot of deaths and get stolen frequently. The government wants the operators carefully trained and their accidents recorded, and it wants to help them recover stolen vehicles. If cyclists were killing a lot of motorists, the government would go to the trouble of training and licensing them too.

One angry motorist (bigot) wrote: I am fed up with the people who ride bicycles. . . . AND THEY DON'T PAY ONE DIME OF FEES TO PAY FOR ANYTHING. Ever see how much a car owner pays in registration fees and gas tax?

This argument, that cyclists don't pay taxes, is an old one. It is a big lie. It's based on the idea that all expenditures for roads come from registration fees and gas taxes. Actually, the idea of linking gas tax receipts to road-building is a fairly recent one, starting with the funding for the interstate system. Since then, politicians have discovered that people would support new gasoline taxes if the money was dedicated to paying for road building and improvements. But local, state, and federal governments have been funding massive projects for years based on whatever money was available to them. Money from other sources has always gone into road and bridge construction, and money from motor vehicle fees and taxes has always gone wherever it was needed. You pay a tax on your car, not because you drive it somewhere nor because the tax gives you any privilege to do anything, but just because the car is an expensive piece of property, just like your house. You pay a tax on gasoline just as you pay a tax on anything else you buy, and the tax on gas is higher for the same reason that that taxes on tobacco and alcohol are higher: their use creates a greater expense for the community.

So misteralz, when someone tells you you don't belong on the road with cars, you can now explain why you do.

[misteralz]

Cheers for that, but I don't live in the states!
I never ride my bike on the road either. The only place I've seen it working is in Vietnam, but only because everybody is on bikes or mopeds.

[closetbiker]

from http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/rdvspth.htm

when the car was invented, the bicycle was already considered a vehicle by law, and bicycles are recognized in every courtroom in the world as legal vehicles. In most countries, bicycles and automobiles have always shared the road without many accidents.

Bicyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles. Bicyclists are not wheeled pedestrians. Riding on the sidewalk or against traffic, is unsafe and illegal.

This fact is supported by every study that has ever been done on the subject. In fact, most studies show that sidewalk bicyclists are at least twice as likely to be involved in an accident with a motor vehicle!

I don't know what country you live in, but I'm willing to bet that the info here can help you.

I see you just joined today, so stick around. There lots of good info here that can help you.

[misteralz]

Ha ha yeah, it seems like there's a good bunch here! I'm in Scotland, and I can honestly say that the standard of driving is really rather good, whereas the standard of road cycling is terrible! That's why when I want to go out on the bike I'll shove it in the back of the car and drive to where I want to go riding, because I really don't want to be tarred with the same brush as those other twats. I've also deliberately removed anything reflective from my bike to deter me from taking it out in traffic. The shops are close enough to walk to, the trails too far away to ride to...
Stick around? Will do, cheers!

[TuckertonRR]

misteralz:
2 years ago I spent some time in southern England (including London).
drivers it seemed to me, were MUCH more courteous than anywhere I've encountered in the USA.
and, as far as I know, roads are "public" in much the same way as in the USA as in the UK. (I know theres' a "tv" (tele) tax, but never heard of a "road" tax in the UK)

[misteralz]

Southern England is jack sh*t like any of Scotland, two seperate countries governed by two seperate governments with two different sets of laws...
Although I'm not disputing the standards of driving, having driven all over the UK I can honestly say it's better up here in Scotland, and amazingly good in the Highlands and Islands. I'm just saying in the city where I live has an abysmal standard of riding by cyclists...and if I'm being held up by one on a public road when there's a perfectly useable cyclepath not two yards to their left, naturally I'm going to get a bit pissed off!
Road tax? Yep - £170 for my car, less if you have some poxy little-engined thing. It's cheaper for motorcycles, and more expensive for trucks. Would be fair if we didn't have stupidly-high fuel duty. Blame that Thatcher cow...

[TuckertonRR]

Ok then - where's the 170GBP come from - is it when you buy the car, do they send you a bill? also is it an annual fee, or is it a one-time fee?

we don't have anything like that in the USA....property taxes pay for most public services (roads, schools, police) so I don't know too much about taxation in different countries.

and I didn't mean to imply Scotland & England are the same country....I've never been to Scotland.....but Southern Englands' the closest I've been & thought it would've been at least somewhat relevant

[Roody]

Road tax? Yep - £170 for my car, less if you have some poxy little-engined thing. It's cheaper for motorcycles, and more expensive for trucks. Would be fair if we didn't have stupidly-high fuel duty. Blame that Thatcher cow...
I wish we had taxes or user fees on cars here too, and much higher taxes on gasoline. Anything that discourages unnecessary driving is a good thing.

(BTW, I'm not sure you get the concept....You know this is a carfree forum?)

[misteralz]

I wish we had taxes or user fees on cars here too, and much higher taxes on gasoline. Anything that discourages unnecessary driving is a good thing.

(BTW, I'm not sure you get the concept....You know this is a carfree forum?)

I wish you did too, as maybe then the current craze for stupidly big, heavy and inefficient SUVs wouldn't have migrated over here... ;)
I know this is a carfree forum, yes, and I'd love to live more simply, but my life at the moment dictates that I can't. I love my car though, and I quite like my fiancees' Audi TT as well...
Doesn't mean that I don't eat organic veggies though, and I put a coat on when I'm cold... :p

[Roody]

I wish you did too, as maybe then the current craze for stupidly big, heavy and inefficient SUVs wouldn't have migrated over here... ;)
I know this is a carfree forum, yes, and I'd love to live more simply, but my life at the moment dictates that I can't. I love my car though, and I quite like my fiancees' Audi TT as well...
Doesn't mean that I don't eat organic veggies though, and I put a coat on when I'm cold... :p
Cool, no offense meant. :)

[misteralz]

Cool, none at all taken, and likewise, hopefully no offence caused on my part.
Not all of us who love our cars are villians - I maintain mine thoroughly, replace broken bits with better-condition parts from scrapyards if I can, knowing all the while that I'm causing much less damage to the environment than those who buy a new car on finance every three years! Living simply rocks, organic food tastes better and makes you feel healthier, recycling is no hassle at all and I have the upmost respect to those who can live a carfree lifestyle. It's just that I can't...

[Platy]

I have a question for the bloke from Scotland. Will you be wanting to sell us the last of that fine North Sea oil, or will you be wanting to keep a bit for yourself?

[misteralz]

Sh*t, I was hoping that question wasn't going to come up... Keep it for ourselves or sell it overseas, I'm not that bothered so long as it keeps me in a job!
I know, that's me banned from this forum now!

[cyclezealot]

Misteralz. YOu refered to trails. Curious. You ride a road or mtn. bike.?

[Thor29]

That made no sense to me?
But when I see a family of four out in city centre traffic - two adults and two young children - not wearing helmets and teaching their children to weave in and out of traffic, I'm deliberately gonna pull right into the side at a red light to block their passage. They can wait, and instill some road sense into their kids.

See, here's that control thing I was talking about. Deliberately using a motor vehicle to cut off bicycle riders, no matter how irresponsible they may be, is yet another sign of a god complex. Not to mention silly since it won't teach them a damned thing anyway.

[cyclezealot]

The couple confrontrations I had with motorists. I try to ignore them. When spit at on leg. Was too much. I flipped. Said something like. Think your childish antics are going to keep us off the road. You know there are too many of us.(cyclists, here.)
The stupid arses. Spit at me when moving about 5 mph. But I caught up to them at the stop light. They just shut their window as I gave them the salute. Good to always have your water bottle full for unexpected reasons.

[demo9orgon]

People say a car is an extension of one's sexuality. Seems a logical extension of one's psychology. As they say no fool like an old fool.

That reminds me of J. G. Ballard's "Crash".
It's worth a 30 minute perusal at the local Barnes 'n Noble or Borders.

[demo9orgon]

That made no sense to me?
But when I see a family of four out in city centre traffic - two adults and two young children - not wearing helmets and teaching their children to weave in and out of traffic, I'm deliberately gonna pull right into the side at a red light to block their passage. They can wait, and instill some road sense into their kids.

May you suffer an endless bicycle commute populated by similarly self-important motorists who share your zeal for occupying the bicycle lane.

You're not in Tucson are you? It's a supposedly bike-friendly city where I have to deal with motorists who seem to think that if they can't get to the front I shouldn't get to the front either. They're just so special I try to smile and wave at them when I can as I'm going around them.

Bicycles can perform miracles...going around a self-important delusional motorist is easy.
It's super to see their mouths move and hear them pound their steering wheel too.

[cyclezealot]

Demo. Driving made me so mad. Even before I took up cycling over 10 years ago. You hit on my pet peeve. THe endless game of motorist needing to be in the 'lead.' The risks they take to get ahead to the next bit of congestion.
Hate the fact you can't use left turn signals to pass, because that will jerk someone's chain causing them to be determined to stop that pass. Football anology.

[pdsjn]

Been there. A couple of weeks ago I was coasting down a short steep hill and topped out at over 40 mph. At the same time I was being passed by an SUV. The posted speed limit was 25 mph. I guess we were both wrong. Boy, being passed close at 40 can really get your hair on the back of your neck to

[attercoppe]

The couple confrontrations I had with motorists. I try to ignore them. When spit at on leg. Was too much. I flipped. Said something like. Think your childish antics are going to keep us off the road. You know there are too many of us.(cyclists, here.)
The stupid arses. Spit at me when moving about 5 mph. But I caught up to them at the stop light. They just shut their window as I gave them the salute. Good to always have your water bottle full for unexpected reasons.

cyclezealot, did you just turn into a Dalek or something?

[cyclezealot]

Atter. One emotion that can turn one into a mutant life form is the thought of my former wife. She was a huge Dr. Who fan.
Had not been thrown into a rage from her time to those punk kids with poisonous spit. Well, a Dalek would have vaporized their beings into another dimension. I just had thoughts of smashing their windows.
These beings spat at me across from a high school. Looked like Freshman.
Confrontrations should not exceed polite verbal exchanges, unless one has the ability to vaporize. Vaporization is the fastest draw in the western world.
other confrontrations were thrown apples or soda cans. Think spit the most inflamatory. But, then none as deadly as forcing a cyclist off the road.

[demo9orgon]

It must be terribly humilitating for the motorist who's spent tens of thousands of dollars, lost some measure of that in depreciation mere moments after turning the key, and has burned a startling percentage of that in a blend of insurance, registration, and other financial acts of fealty and ignorance in order to experience the priviledge of having me handily beat them across the intersection. Adding a bit of salt to the experience is my very utilitarian look. As a fashion statement I'm the very picture of "Dog-Meat Cyclist Poster-Boy". Mmmm, mmm, brutal ego ablation, served daily.