Commuting - Question for the steel lovers out there...

Why do you prefer steel frames for commuting? AL seems to be more resistant to corrosion (well...it doesn't rust anyway). Is it just for the smoother ride or are there other reasons I'm not aware of. I'm afraid of steel with the combo of salty roads, wet & the frequent knicks and scratches my commuter bikes get. So here is your opportunity to sing the praises of steel.

I like the ride, it flexes nicely and absorbes impacts from craters, er, potholes, rather well. Its comfy. Its durable. Rust? Well, around here its not an issue. Nicks and scratches can be covered by a dab of clear nail polish to prevent rust. WIth proper care a steel frame will last a very very very long time. People are still riding steel bikes made in the 40's and 50's. Probably even older ones in some areas. There are steel penny farthings that have been restored and are 100+ years old, and they still get ridden. That's pretty durable in my book!

The ride (and price relative to other types) made me get steel. But there's no way I would ride it in the rain. The other bike is aluminum which was cheeeap and it handles the elements fine. All the steel bolts on it are rusting!

Steel's a good investment. Buy it once, keep it forever barring some horrific crash that cracks the frame. Just wipe it down after a rainy ride to keep it from rusting.

I've still got my steel frame from 25 years ago and it has been ridden in the rain many times. If I see rust, I sand it off clean and touch up the paint.

I've got nothing against other frame types... they have thier advantages as well. But steel is the longest lasting at the most reasonable price. With Reynolds 853, it's just as light as alloy or Ti. And the ride is good.

What more do you want?

Az

My bikes are older ones that I bought used. I love the industry move to aluminum because everyone thinks steel is obsolete and the prices go down.

I work on my own bikes. Steel is not as soft as aluminum. Its harder for ham fisted galoots like me to strip the threads in bottom brackets or fender mounting eyelets.

I think steel is more resistant to dents. I'm talking about the bike falling over in the garage and landing with the top tube squarely on a concrete cynder block. I think steel is a little more robust in surviving stupid accidents like that.

I like the ride, it flexes nicely and absorbes impacts from craters, er, potholes, rather well. Its comfy. Its durable. Rust? Well, around here its not an issue. Nicks and scratches can be covered by a dab of clear nail polish to prevent rust. WIth proper care a steel frame will last a very very very long time. People are still riding steel bikes made in the 40's and 50's. Probably even older ones in some areas. There are steel penny farthings that have been restored and are 100+ years old, and they still get ridden. That's pretty durable in my book!

That pretty much sums it up for me.

The only other thing I'd like to add is that bikes were meant to be ridden. Everything will wear our eventually. Ride what you like, take care of it, and worry less.

I bent the derailleur hanger on my Al bike. I didn't hit anything, and the ground wasn't rough - just smooth parking lot - but it bent severely anyway. Strike one. Shop wasn't sure if they could straighten it, took them three days to get the "special tool" from the main shop. Strike two. Failure would have meant a $300 factory repair - my nickel since it was due to a "crash." IMO, just falling over shouldn't be a crippling "crash". Strike three. Now it's steel forever after. Harder to bend by mistake. Easier to bend if it needs fixed.

I refuse to buy a bike for more than about 20 bucks. I pay less for the bike, it's less likely to be stolen, and if somebody were to steal it I'd spend less replacing it.

The only bikes I've seen that cheap are steel. I don't know if the ride is better than AL but the ride is fine and I've had no durability problems whatsoever.

I like steel because for me, it's a smoother ride than aluminum; I don't feel every tiny bump. As a result, my bad back doesn't get worse. My Lemond came from the factory with drain holes (even though it never rains in Southern California :-) ), but it also came with rustproofing inside the tubes. If your steel ride doesn't have that, ask at the LBS: they will be able to do it for you or sell the rustproofing liquid. It takes two or three days to do.

i haven't seen a lugged aluminum frame! :D

I love the ride of steel. And it will out last you if taken care of.

My steel bike doesn't rust - I put Framesaver in the frame and touch up the rare exterior paint scratch.

AFAIK, road salt will cause unprotected aluminum to corrode. Protecting my steel frame from rust automatically protects against the road salt corrosion, too.

Steel provides an amazing ride quality for relatively cheap.

Steel is much easier to repair.

For us clydesdales, aluminum will eventually fail due to fatigue, steel won't.

To my eye, steel frames look so much sexier.

I'd say lugged steel is the best way to make a good all-round bike frame. It's not just the steel, it's the brazed lugs.

I'm not so sure that welded steel is any better than welded Alu for a bike frame.

Workmanship and quality is the most important thing about frames. Cannondale makes really nice Alu frames--- better than almost any welded steel frames you can buy. So although Jamis makes a good cheap welded steel frame bike, one worth buying, it's not as light or as strong as a Cannondale's Alu frames.

A lugged Waterford fame is better yet-- because of craftmanship.

Many commuters pick 1980's lugged steel frames becuase they are well made and cheap. A good combo.

i haven't seen a lugged aluminum frame! :D

Darn it, d2c. That was the best reason I could think of.

Oh, I bet you have seen a lugged Alu frame.... and lugged carbon frames as well. The lugs were inside the frame!

i haven't seen a lugged aluminum frame! :D

I love the ride of steel. And it will out last you if taken care of.

Here is my Sakae (sockeye) frame and fork. ultra light lugged aluminum:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/sakae%20steerer.JPG

Steel is cheap! Actually, steel can be free. I occasionally get steel frames (and all kinds of other dated bike parts) from a certain scrap steel dumpter late at night.

I don't think I've ever ridden anything but steel, so I can't speak about the ride quality or anything. I do know that steel has been around so long and is understood so well (from an engineering standpoint) that I don't have to worry nearly so much about carbon forks exploding or aluminum frames getting random stress fractures, etc. Steel isn't perfect, but we at least know pretty much all there is to know about it, which can't be said for all the new fancy stuff they build bikes out of these days.

Another bonus is that I can weld steel in my garage if I need to modify something or fabricate a weird bracket or something.

My steel frame is more comforatable (no suspension), my AL frame feels "brittle" or "crisp", which is fine for shorter, fast rides. Fatigue favors steel, which is why I'll have my Trek 950 indefinitely, even if it is heavy.

As for rust, I spot remove any rust w/ steel wool and touch up routinely. No rust "problems" in 16 years, and I live in the Midwest (occasional winter rider). I've really only needed to remove rust on boss threads where the paint gets scraped.

A thought on weight. Better rims will gain you more in accel than reducing frame weight.

As far as the ride goes... If you have been riding for a while, go to the bike shop and test ride a steel bike, a carbon bike, and an aluminum bike. No suspension on all of 'em. I could NOT tell the difference before I started riding regularly, but now I can feel it right away. The steel and carbon bikes are so much more comfortable, I tried the aluminum before the carbon and when I went halfway across the parking lot I checked if the tires were flat, the carbon rode that much smoother than the aluminum.

But it's personal preference. An aluminum frame with carbon forks and seatstays might feel just as good as a full steel bike. Try different bikes in your price range and see what you like best.

(BTW: Don't crash when test-riding the carbon bike. They're a wee bit expensive.)

This NOT a rant against modern exotic materials. They are all very, very cool.

I like old 3-speeds alot. They are not light at about 38 - 42 lbs, but they are among the strongest, longest-lasting bicycles ever made. There may be over a billion of them on roads and dirt tracks all over the world. I've seen pictures of them being ridden in Africa with no tires.

They are steel.

I have at least one such bike. A '64 Brit that I got for almost nothing. It was a mess. A dull, shallow coat of rust on all bright surfaces but the tubing is as good today as it was when built. It rides like a Rolls-Royce and looks like one, too, except for the hood ornament. Note that these bikes were built out of "gas pipe". Today, steel bikes like Trek and dozens of other production are made of Cro-moly steel. The addition of cromium adds to the corrosion resistance of the steel, as well as providing other benefits. There are other types of steel at different price levels.

My '88 Trek was left outside by the side of the house for over ten years. It's very wet here and the ambient moisture in the Pac NW is high all the time. There is only the slightest hint of rust at certain sharp points. I ride it everyday with a vengeance.

Rivendell, ANT, Houle and other fine custom makers use steel because their bikes are built to be ridden daily and with no concern for the weather or other conditions.

Don't you be concerned, either. :)

If I rode an aluminum bike, I'd be lying when singing...

"I'm a cowboy.
On a steel horse, I ride.
I'm wanted
Dead or alive."

I guess I'm still half-lying, since I'm not really a cowboy or wanted, (especially DOA).

So, I'll have to stay with steel, (and no, I don't really sing this while riding to work).

Oh, I bet you have seen a lugged Alu frame.... and lugged carbon frames as well. The lugs were inside the frame!

Bianchi's 928 Carbon Lugged/Chorus is externally lugged carbon.

But hands down Steel lugged frames look so much better. Only one bike in my stable is alu, the rest are steel.

Because steel is real.:) I have only ridden steel, and so I can't compare it to other materials, but I can say that it feels comfortable when I ride it and I know that every time I have ever crashed, by bike has come out in better condition than me, so that says something.:)

Steel is a better ride than aluminum, for me at least. Alu bikes seem brittle--the ride, that is. Never have liked them. As for rust, if you take care of your bike, rust will be minimal. That's just common sense--clean your bike every once in a while. And if you don't, it's not going to rust though for a very, very long time. My '85 Stumpjumper was used hard and hardly cared for when I lived in a salty, snowy land. It's 21 years old and fine.

The only way a steel frame will rust to the point of being an issue is if you leave it outside for years and never dry it. The worry about rust is silly IMO. I love the look of a classic steel frame, the smaller tubes and such and the ride is more forgiven on the steel bikes that I have owned versus the few alums.

Make that forgiving...Although my steel frame has forgiven me for abuse I give it sometimes.

If I rode an aluminum bike, I'd be lying when singing...

"I'm a cowboy.
On a steel horse, I ride.
I'm wanted
Dead or alive."

I guess I'm still half-lying, since I'm not really a cowboy or wanted, (especially DOA).

So, I'll have to stay with steel, (and no, I don't really sing this while riding to work).

Hey Man, I dig those lyrics!

The biggest patches of rust on my 1973 American Eagle/Nishiki are where my sweat dripped down onto the frame. That bike will probably outlast me.

Much better (more comfortable) ride on steel. Also find the bottom bracket lasts a lot longer on my steel bike than it did on my Al bike. I know there are lot of factors but IMHO because I'm heavy, carry stuff to work and have to get over some steep hills, I stand on the pedals a lot. Seems to be nowhere near as much wear and tear on the drive train with steel.

I've been commuting on steel bikes in Madison for about a year in all weather. I never dry them off. They are scratched up, but not a hint of rust anywhere.

I like old bikes that have non-cartridge bearings, and I like the soft, lively ride that makes ferrous so fulfilling.

I live in a very humid climate, and one of my bikes -- steel, like the others -- sat in floodwaters for nine days last year. It lives!

Not to knock aluminum, carbon and other materials; they have their place. I just prefer steel for frames.

i haven't seen a lugged aluminum frame! :D



Seems like there is nothing new under the sun. I once saw a really old aluminum lugged bike that used alen screws to hold the tubing in the lugs
http://milkwood.org/ray/lug.jpg

Maybe there are some material science people that know better than me but this following was explained to me... The steel alloys used in most modern bikes now will rust where scratched or not protected by paint.....However from what I have been told these modern alloys are not like the steel used in cars for example - and will not ever "rust through". The surface corrosion is only skin deep - once the exposed alloy corrodes over - this corrosion acually stops since there is no nude alloy exposed anymore. Essentially the rust forms a protective layer. There is a type of steel used buildings (and a lot of outdoor sculptures) called Cor-ten...You've probably seen it. Its an alloy that's designed to rust over...the rust ends up becoming its protective coating.

Now some old or super-cheap steel bikes may have the wrong alloy and could eventually rust through....but from what had been explained to me, tubing from reynold, columbus, tru temper, etc all behave in the way above. The material really has to be abused to rust enough to cause a failure. For expample constantly scratching the same area over and over again...where it rusts, then the rust coating is scraped off, and rusts again. In theory the tubing will get thinner each time.

So rust looks bad, but in reality it is not as dangerous and the alum/CF crown makes you believe. Alum bikes are great too - but they also corrode (this corrosion too is also forms a "protective" coating...except in the case of salt). Aluminum bikes are being pushed on us not because they are better (in some cases they are) but because given todays mass production techniques, aluminum bikes are cheap to produce - certainly cheaper than lugged or brazed steel frames.

I have both steel and alum - each has its place.

I ride steel because Surly don't make the LHT is any other material, and we all know that *MY* LHT is the best bike in the known universe :p



"this is my bike, there are many others like it but this one is mine.... etc. etc." :D (Full metal jacket.... that's metal, not aluminium ;) )

A decent quality steel frame will be fairly resistant to rusting and you can protect the paintowrk with car wax.
Apart from a few ultra-ultralight grades, most steel tubing is fairly resistant to denting when you drop it.
My nice old steel light touring bike weighs about the same as a modern midrange Al-framed hybrid.
Ti is probably a better all-round material for everyday uses except that it costs too much as is too attractive to thieves. Steel can ride well yet look low-key.

The rust argument against steel is (was) vastly overplayed to favour aluminium alloy bikes in my opinion. Especially when you consider the corrosion and pitting that I found on my 5 year old alloy frame during a recent strip-down after noticing blisters in the paint. There are some pictures on this thread :

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=157699

When I removed the blistered paint, the pitting in the alloy surface was much worse than anything I saw on the old carbolite Peugoet that I used to ride.

Ed

<< The only way a steel frame will rust to the point of being an issue is if you leave it outside for years and never dry it. >>

Well, not quite; I had an old steel Peugeot which accidentally fell into our marina. I hoooked it out pretty quickly, hosed it down, sprayed everything I cld think of w/WD40 and hung it up in the garage to dry. It hung there for a few years before I went to use it again. It looked fine but when I went to lift it down, my thumb went through the top tube!!

I've been riding steel BMX and road frames for most of my life. Never had a significant problem with rust. I ride all year round..even in the rain and snow. Back when I was real young I had a paper route...six days a week in all conditions, and in those days I kept my bike in the garage and never wiped it down. I remeber finding insignificant traces of rust inside the frame, but nothing to be concened about. Now I commute to work on an old steel Bianchi road frame that I've converted to a fixed gear. Not a sign of rust yet on that either, except on the cheap bolts from Home Depot that I used to mount the fenders. If you properly maintain a steel frame, it should last longer than you, unless you do tupid things like throw it in the lake and then let it sit around for years with water in the tubes.
I have cracked a few steel BMX frames, but never had catastrophic frame failure. Aluminum, I suppose, is more prone to catastrophic failure.
On the other hand...I have an aluminum Specialized Sirrus frame for about three years. I;ve had that thing on salty roads a few times, and the frame is slightly pitted in the areas where the paint is chipped. So for a corrosion standpoint, I'd say my steel frames have held up better.

Here is my Sakae (sockeye) frame and fork. ultra light lugged aluminum:

That's not a lug...this is a lug:

http://www.waterfordbikes.com/images/pdgnvxh2.jpg

<< The only way a steel frame will rust to the point of being an issue is if you leave it outside for years and never dry it. >>

Well, not quite; I had an old steel Peugeot which accidentally fell into our marina. I hoooked it out pretty quickly, hosed it down, sprayed everything I cld think of w/WD40 and hung it up in the garage to dry. It hung there for a few years before I went to use it again. It looked fine but when I went to lift it down, my thumb went through the top tube!!

That marina pullution is the devil!

<< The only way a steel frame will rust to the point of being an issue is if you leave it outside for years and never dry it. >>

Well, not quite; I had an old steel Peugeot which accidentally fell into our marina. I hoooked it out pretty quickly, hosed it down, sprayed everything I cld think of w/WD40 and hung it up in the garage to dry. It hung there for a few years before I went to use it again. It looked fine but when I went to lift it down, my thumb went through the top tube!!

I may be wrong, but I'll bet that salt water is far tougher on steel than fresh water.

That's not a lug...this is a lug

No. The Sakae is a lugged frame. It may not be as fancy as a steel classic, but it is lugged. To me the Sakae's lugs are a subtly beautiful blend of function and simplicity.

I'm not knocking steel. I have several lugged steel bikes which I love dearly.

No. The Sakae is a lugged frame. It may not be as fancy as a steel classic, but it is lugged. To me the Sakae's lugs are a subtly beautiful blend of function and simplicity.

I know. My commment was more of a friendly one-upsmanship, ala Crocodile Dundee.

BTW, that's a great looking Sakae. I agree that the subtlety is nice. I once had a steel Bridgestone with die cast aluminum lugs. It was good looking in a weird sort of way.

Here's a good read for frame materials analysis:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

If the ride difference is all placebo, tires, or otherwise, I'd say steel gets a nod for durability in terms of corrosion and strength, aluminum for weight. For normal riding, it technically shouldn't matter, I guess. If you carry heavy loads, steel might be a better choice.

I like the ride, it flexes nicely and absorbes impacts from craters, er, potholes, rather well. Its comfy. Its durable. Rust? Well, around here its not an issue. Nicks and scratches can be covered by a dab of clear nail polish to prevent rust. WIth proper care a steel frame will last a very very very long time. People are still riding steel bikes made in the 40's and 50's. Probably even older ones in some areas. There are steel penny farthings that have been restored and are 100+ years old, and they still get ridden. That's pretty durable in my book!

+2

For some of us, the ones that are built heavier than others, frame flex becomes somewhat important.



;)

Seems like there is nothing new under the sun. I once saw a really old aluminum lugged bike that used alen screws to hold the tubing in the lugs
http://milkwood.org/ray/lug.jpg

I would love to see the rest of this bike. It looks like someone went nuts with the conduit, in their garage. It's got to be quite the functional marvel. :D

My AL. Miyata has lugs, a ChromeMoly fork and with its long stays and 28mm tires is probably more forgiving than my TSX Bianchi. Does it have as good as "feel" to it, the answer is no. I believe ride is dependent upon many factors , like tire, wheel and frame design. A AL bike can ride nice. My rain bike is the Al Miyata but given a choice I like the "feel" of my steel frames better.The 531 Carlton for comfort and the TSX Bianchi for performance/comfort. For looks a traditional lugged frame is best IMHO. I have yet to try carbon, I am afraid doing so might end in divorce as bikes keep following me home.

I have yet to try carbon, I am afraid doing so might end in divorce as bikes keep following me home.

My wife says she misses the days when I was obsessed with disk golf, or dog training, or soccer, or chess, or geocaching, etc.

My commuter, (Rocinante, or Rosie for short), stays in the laundry room, (the other bikes are locked up on the back porch), and an off-balanced load of laundry sent the washing machine "walking" across the floor. It knocked over my bike and by sheer coincidence, we got a new washer and dryer the next week.

So, a few weeks pass and my son was in the laundry room and accidentally knocked over my bike. I walked in to see him standing over it with a look of horror on his face, (he's 12). He thought I would be angry so I decided to have a little fun with this. I put on a stern face and said, "Chance, you are going to have to learn to get along with Rosie. The bike is staying. You remember what happened to the washer, don't you?"

About the time I mentioned the washer, a look of relief washed over him, since he knew I was yanking his chain.

Of course, my wife jokes about the fact that I would probably divorce her if she tried to make me give up my bikes.

My response is, "Probably?"

Why steel? Because it's a proven technology that rides so nicely. Because if you dent it or bend it, you can get it fixed (assuming it's a frame that's worth the effort), at least if it's brazed and not TIG welded. Because you can "cold-set" steel - which is a fancy name for bending it a little bit - and still have a viable machine. Because if a steel frame cracks, the crack grows slooooowly - you will notice the crack visually or by feel long before a catastrophic failure. Because you can get it for pretty cheap off the rack or you can get it custom-made and tweaked for your personal fetishes, and either way it will work well. And because a well-made, nicely painted and/or chromed lugged-steel framed road bike is one of the most beautiful things ever constructed by humans, IMHO.

The biggest downside: rust. With Framesaver or Boeshield for the inside, and touch-ups for scratches outside, rust will not harm your ride for maaaaaany years. (As for the road spray, especially road salt, hose the frame down to get all the crud off and then wipe it down with a not-too-disgusting rag at the end of the ride or day.)

Why not aluminum? Doesn't look right. Not as forgiving a ride. A dent or bend is a disaster - bending aluminum once is bad, bending it twice is asking for a major failure. And when Al goes, it goes fast.

Why not carbon fiber? Again, it doesn't look right. Plus it's expensive. Plus I simply cannot get my head around the idea of riding a plastic frame out in the sun and elements - all the materials scientists in the world can swear on a stack of Bibles, Korans, Vedas and anything else that carbon fiber frames are not affected by UV radiation, and I still just don't quite believe it. And, as with aluminum, a dent or bend = time for a new frame. Plus, if carbon fiber goes south, it goes south in a hurry.

Why not titanium? Primarily the expense. Ti frames look pretty good, the ride can be made arm-chair comfy, and the absence of corrosion is a plus. If I couldn't have steel, though, I'd try to save my shekels and go Ti.

I just picked up a Trek 720 Multi Track... got my work cut out for me, gonna make it a full blown commuter. Gotta tune it and tighten this and that. Find some fenders. Figure out what the wire is running out of the frame near the Crank Arms.

Gonna turn my MTB back into a MTB! Dab Nab It! I miss the trails!

Because steel doesn't need to be replaced every riding season.