Advocacy & Safety - is it possible to get a permit to ride on the sidewalk?

Or more to the point, have any of you ever heard of that?
I'm a messenger, and have been for about a year now, and I think it would make sense. Where I live (paradise, if you're wondering) it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk. But some people can get around laws because they have permission. Can messengers do the same thing?
Have you heard of this happening in any cities around the world? Say, Sydney, London, New York, etc? I mean, UPS trucks can park in loading zones for pretty much as long as they want, thanks to their status as being part of the business community. And cops can be certified to ride safely on sidewalks. So why can't I? I have heard of a comercial licence in New York City, but I'm not exactly sure what that means.
Any help would be appreciated when I make up a case to bring to the Director of Whatever at my local government.

In theory it could happen. People get licensed to do things that are above a notional risk level that is considered acceptable to government and therefore there is no reason why they should not, except cost.

Firstly a group of people would have to come up with a series of standards that would have to be met before a permit was issued, then a method of teaching and testing those standards in the form of a curriculum. Following on from that they would have to develop a permit system that was not open to abuse, including laws and regulations that would have to be observed by holders of such a permit along with considerations of insurance requirements. Also the form of permit would have to be protected against forgery and misrepresentation etc. Finally a means of enforcement of the permit would have to be contructed to ensure fair and reasonable treatment of the bearers by the authorities.

Now that is going to end up costing a large amount of initial capital outlay to put through the bureaucratic procedure so it would have to justified to the public purse. Chances are that unless a majority of your city's residents are couriers or cyclists, this isn't going to pass. Or you could raise the cash yourself, about half a million should get the ball rolling but more will probably be required to complete the job and then there's the continuing administrative costs. Again, the city is unlikely to step up to that either.

I mean, UPS trucks can park in loading zones for pretty much as long as they want, thanks to their status as being part of the business community.

I just can't resist...

Why would you not expect a UPS truck to be in a loading zone based on its usual purpose for being in the area? By some stretch of the imagination, could it be there based on the fact that they just might be loading and/or unloading parcels? Maybe, if we let our minds expand to embrace all possibilities we might expect to see an occasional FedEx truck, Postal Jeep or DHL van along with the commercial delivery trucks in a loading zone too...

:D

FYI, in New Jersey you can get a permit to ride on the shoulder of certain interstate highways.

I guess the question has to be asked, why do you want to be able to ride on the sidewalk?

In the province of Quebec bikes with wheel diameters up to 20" are allowed on sidewalks. If your local regulations have a similar provision, get a folder.

In the province of Quebec bikes with wheel diameters up to 20" are allowed on sidewalks. If your local regulations have a similar provision, get a folder.

The same is true of Ontario. However this is typically proviso'd that this is in the interests of allowing children only to ride on the sidewalk. A province might consider rescinding this privilege if it was abused consistently by adults.

I guess I can understand why a messenger who is in and out of office buildings all day would want the freedom of riding on the sidewalk.
Wonder what the traffic is like in paradise? Probably not too paradisiacal.

I guess the question has to be asked, why do you want to be able to ride on the sidewalk?
Even if it weren't illegal, I wouldn't do this unless the roads were insane and the sidewalks were desolate. On normal sidewalks, pedestrians are wandering about like stray chickens or suddenly exiting from buildings. Unless you go really slowly, riding on sidewalks is unsafe because pedestrians won't expect fast moving things to be there.

The same is true of Ontario. However this is typically proviso'd that this is in the interests of allowing children only to ride on the sidewalk. A province might consider rescinding this privilege if it was abused consistently by adults.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. The Ontario Highway Traffic Act (http://192.75.156.68/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90h08_e.htm) makes no mention of allowing or baning bikes on sidewalks, but many municipal by-laws do add restrictions. I believe Toronto has the 20" wheels and under by-law. Ottawa, on the other hand, bans all bikes from sidewalks with no exceptions.

Those UPS trucks parked overtime on loading zones or just plain parked illegally or for too long are ticketed like everyone else, most of the large delivery companies have thousands in unpaid tickets in every large city they do business in.

In most large cities messengers don't ride on the sidewalks because it's
a) too crowded
b) too slow
c) illegal
d) unprofessional
e) a little of each

In Toronto you can hop up onto the sidewalk to reach a lockpost or parking meter to park against without raising any eyebrows but for long treks the street is just faster. There are some large plazas where the racks are 50+ meters from the curb. Most messengers will cross these mounted, but at a pedestrian pace. If they are practically alone on a plaza, say after lunch, then at a faster pace but still not faster than a person jogging. There is no time savings that can add up to anything and risking hitting a ped is not worth any time savings.

Even if it weren't illegal, I wouldn't do this unless the roads were insane and the sidewalks were desolate. On normal sidewalks, pedestrians are wandering about like stray chickens or suddenly exiting from buildings. Unless you go really slowly, riding on sidewalks is unsafe because pedestrians won't expect fast moving things to be there.

Having biked on Philly sidewalks during college when I didn't know any better, I can attest that the streets are much safer. Sidewalks themselves are unpredictable in terms of the pavement and where the ramp will be to enter it at an intersection. Then you add in all the pedestrians, trash cans, dogs, and turning cars. I'll take honking motorists any day over that ever again.

Messengers are paid by the delivery.

Riding on sidewalks is much slower than riding on the highway

Please run your question by us again

Actually, traffic can be bad enough in parts of Honolulu, that 10 mph sidewalk cycling can be faster (sidewalk cycle speed limit in HI).

OP - Have you ever been ticketed for riding on the sidewalk, except Ala Wai or Kalakaua (only streets signed for no sidewalk riding)? If you get a ticket on any other street, just take it to traffic court and ask the police officer to prove you were in a "business district" under the definition of the law. Without the signs, almost none of the HPD will ticket you.

"Messengers are paid by the delivery.
Riding on sidewalks is much slower than riding on the highway"

Yes, that is true. However there aren't any highways in the Honolulu CBD. Only sidewalks, one-way streets, and traffic jams.

1) it is not always faster in downtown honolulu to ride on the street. like I said, many of the roads are one way, and the lights are ********. Most times, I just have to go about fifty to a hundred meters on the sidewalk to get to the next p/u or drop, whereas if I stuck to the roads, it would be half a mile up and back plus two or three lights. it's about the same time, since i ride so slowly, but it is easier — i don't have to work as hard.

2) for those who make blanket judgements about riding on the street versus the sidewalk, Honolulu is a very particular cycling environment.

3) I really can't see why everyone is so up in arms about riding on the sidewalk. It's like some verboten ubersin or something. I was just wondering if it was possible to get a permit to ride on the sidewalk — if that's been done in other localities. There's already a few threads about riding on the sidewalk.

4) I haven't been stopped or ticketed anywhere except in Waikiki, but that doesn't mean I won't. I don't want to take the chance. It is still illegal even if it's safe, and judges here are pretty sore jerks when it comes to interpreting the law.

and for all you guys freezing your ballbearings off, Hawaii was beautiful today. Just beautiful.
68 degrees, sunny, no rain, and a steady stream of choice runs. Plus, my first run of the day was to a macadamia nut factory. While I waited, i ate chocolate covered macadamia nuts. :-)
sometimes i love hawaii.

1) it is not always faster in downtown honolulu to ride on the street. like I said, many of the roads are one way, and the lights are ********. Most times, I just have to go about fifty to a hundred meters on the sidewalk to get to the next p/u or drop, whereas if I stuck to the roads, it would be half a mile up and back plus two or three lights. it's about the same time, since i ride so slowly, but it is easier — i don't have to work as hard.


So why not just walk? I'm not trying to be ignorant but I certainly wouldn't bother mounting my bike to go 50-100 meters unless I was really feeling lazy.

I think most people, including myself, are against sidewalk riding because we define riding as the moving at the speed that you would on the street. This is unsafe. Sure, crawling along on the sidewalk at 5mph isn't going to hurt anybody (maybe) but at that speed, you might as well walk. I'm personally not very stable on my bike at 5mph, at least not enough so to navigate through pedestrians.

Or more to the point, have any of you ever heard of that?
I'm a messenger, and have been for about a year now, and I think it would make sense. Where I live (paradise, if you're wondering) it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk. But some people can get around laws because they have permission. Can messengers do the same thing?
Have you heard of this happening in any cities around the world? Say, Sydney, London, New York, etc? I mean, UPS trucks can park in loading zones for pretty much as long as they want, thanks to their status as being part of the business community. And cops can be certified to ride safely on sidewalks. So why can't I? I have heard of a comercial licence in New York City, but I'm not exactly sure what that means.
Any help would be appreciated when I make up a case to bring to the Director of Whatever at my local government.

No.

Don't do it. Be a man. Ride the streets.

Koffee

Go down to your local city hall or government building and talk to the people in the relevant department and see what they say.

No.

Don't do it. Be a man. Ride the streets.

Koffee

okay, i realize you're an authority figure here and all that. but screw it. you're an idiot. such an idiot.
after you're done with your sexist diatribe read what i wrote about the relative merits of riding on the sidewalk. then, oh I don't know, help me with what I asked for or don't put another naysaying word in. if you can't help me with this anymore than to say "be a man," then get thee back to the women's only forum.

I find it funny that where I was raised, Houston, there messenger in the street to the messenger on the sidewalk ratio is about 1:2. I don't know why this is and I havent asked anyone. houston drivers are insanely terrible (houston has the highest insurante rates nationally), cycling isnt big in houston, and some other factors are probably why. Plus there's not an insane pedstrian volume except at crosswalks.

mmmm macadamia nuts...... yum.

I find it funny that where I was raised, Houston, there messenger in the street to the messenger on the sidewalk ratio is about 1:2. I don't know why this is and I havent asked anyone. houston drivers are insanely terrible (houston has the highest insurante rates nationally), cycling isnt big in houston, and some other factors are probably why. Plus there's not an insane pedstrian volume except at crosswalks.

In Houston there are very few companies, maybe 50 messengers in good weather and very little sidewalk riding. They don't dismount to leave the street and lockup but they don't travel far on the sidewalks to reach the street. The new couriers are ridiculed for riding on the sidewalk or against traffic. Houston has a one-way grid system with the only 2-way Main St down the middle. It is -very- fast between addresses on the street and comparably slow on the sidewalk in spite of the ubiquitous lack of pedestrians. Two-thirds of the messengers can be accounted for in just 3 companies and all discourage riding on the sidewalks. The crews that comprise those companies have direct input in who is added to their number and sidewalk riders never make the cut at the main companies. The police have a zero tolerance period to reinforce proper riding on a regular basis, at least once a year. No "Captain Sidewalks" as they're called, can make money. Usually there is 1-2 brazen sidewalk riders in the community at any given time.

In the province of Quebec bikes with wheel diameters up to 20" are allowed on sidewalks. If your local regulations have a similar provision, get a folder.
Or a trike. They'll think it's a wheelchair and leave you alone.

Or a trike. They'll think it's a wheelchair and leave you alone.
Or BMX ?

okay, i realize you're an authority figure here and all that. but screw it. you're an idiot. such an idiot.
after you're done with your sexist diatribe read what i wrote about the relative merits of riding on the sidewalk. then, oh I don't know, help me with what I asked for or don't put another naysaying word in. if you can't help me with this anymore than to say "be a man," then get thee back to the women's only forum.


I read Koffees reply but not yours earlier :D Thicken that skin fella, no messengers I know of are going to tell you to do it anyway other than your own in an online forum, but face to face what Koffee told you is exactly what you would hear from 99% of them regardless of gender. Or they'd just tell you off-hand that only rookies ride on the sidewalk, to spare your feelings.

3)In answer to your original question, no, permits are not granted anywhere in localities known to the messenger community. Quite the opposite, where it has been an issue in the past ordinances have always been created to forbid sidewalk cycling in business districts. Usually because tourists in the States are drawn to large urban areas and inevitably someone will try to rent them a bike with which to see the "big city". By-laws/city ordinance specify whether it is legal or not and who the rules apply to, exemptions for children etc. 4)Discretion by law enforcement officers is generally governed under common law. They don't have to ticket you if you behave yourself and move at a pedestrian pace on the sidewalk. That said, no citizen may demand discretion from an officer based on their perception of what is safe or unsafe.

Personally I can say that many messengers I have known go through a short phase where they believe it may be easier to ride on the sidewalk but in practice it is more trouble than it is worth. If you are only traveling 50-100 yards between drops the time spent unlocking, mounting, dismounting and re-locking more than eat any time you save traveling only slightly faster than a walking pace, or even if you're foolish enough to sprint on the sidewalk you will barely break even.

The larger view from the professional messenger community in most cities is that sidewalk riders are an embarrassing blemish from an industry standpoint. 2)I've ridden in many cities, none of them Waikiki, but after looking at a map and aerial photographs I can say that personally I would adapt quickly and no sidewalk riding is necessary in your area.

1)The best way isn't always the easiest way but it is always the right way.

In short, good question but a 6 foot man, taller mounted?, when mounted ought to be in the street, on his way to the street or only just exited the street IMHO.

:)

How about shoe skates? Lock up. Zip up. Zip back. Of course, you couldn't use clipless (until someone invents the shoe skate with cleats). Hopefully the city council would have forgotten to include skating in their prohibitions ...