A local committee of concerned neighbors are having an open forum this month about traffic calming solutions for a one-lane road that frequently has cars driving too fast. While this street definitely needs traffic calming and more enforcement of the boneheads who regularly run one of the stop signs near my house, I don't approve of the calming method proposed. Residents who live on the street are going to vote on whether or not to add cement blocks to some of the sides of intersections to give the appearance of a smaller lane. This means an obstacle for bikers who at the present already have to deal with a single winding lane that frequently gets used by cars over 30mph. It's going to force the relatively few cyclists who use the street to take up the entire lane at intersections or move over to avoid the blocks, which I think they're going to paint orange or something day-glow. Currently, enforcement of the speed limit and stop sign runners is done by one police vehicle for the two mile street and surrounding area. This is a family-type residential neighborhood with lots of kids running around in certain parts, plus a grade school and preschool within a few blocks of the main drag.
What's worse, having to avoid cement blocks in the area normally used by cyclists or not having the blocks but contending with sleeping soccer moms driving too fast for the conditions? What can I do to suggest other methods which are more bike-friendly if I don't live on the street and therefore can't vote?
derath
02-12-06, 05:42 PM
Even without the potential problem for Cycling, this sounds totally stupid.
ken cummings
02-12-06, 06:59 PM
Report the scheme to the local city engineers office and especially to the State Highway Department or Caltrans or the Department of Transportation where ever you are. Sure sounds like the scheme would violate some part of the highway design code. nothing would stop their dangerous scheme faster than a letter from a government legal office. Then the engineers would have a chance to consult with the local residents on how to solve their perceived problem, if there is one. If the regulatory body sees no need for a change the locals would have to pay for any "improvements".
Dchiefransom
02-12-06, 09:38 PM
This sounds like something that was posted a while ago. There was a "curb" sticking out at a traffic light.
oilfreeandhappy
02-12-06, 11:51 PM
Maybe they could arrange the concrete blocks to section-off a bike lane.
khuon
02-13-06, 12:57 AM
Maybe they could arrange the concrete blocks to section-off a bike lane.
But that really just creates a sidewalk and obstructs cyclists as they'll have very limited places to take the lane or cross over into the turn-lane in order to make left turns.
Ed Holland
02-13-06, 05:11 AM
Here in Oxford they have tried all of the ideas mentioned above in the name of "Traffic Calming" including extended kerbing, introduction of "pinch points" and the partial sectioning of bike lanes. Every one of these approaches are a nuisance or worse, a danger to cyclists. In a city where cycle use has such a high profile, it is incredible that many of these ideas make it onto our roads. Then again, there is very little that I have to say that would compliment our local authorities and their ability to organise or maintain anything.
San Rensho
02-13-06, 09:09 AM
"pinch points" have to be the stupidest idea in the world. Its fatal for a cyclist that doesn't take up the whole lane. For car drivers who know where they are, it doesn't slow them down, I just pretend its a chicane and go rumble strip to rumble strip without having to slow down.
If you don't know its there, it just makes you swerve at the same time oncoming traffic is swerving, which is never a good idea.
What in the world were they thinking.
The Seldom Kill
02-13-06, 09:48 AM
If the EMS requirements allow it then this sounds like an ideal place for speed tables. It forces a slow down at stop points and cross section with none of the detriments to cycling carried by speed bumps and speed cushions.
For the uninitiated a speed table is a raised section of road, usually at a junction that is at least three metres long. At junctions they tend to be the entire box of the junction.
Ed Holland
02-13-06, 10:12 AM
If the EMS requirements allow it then this sounds like an ideal place for speed tables. It forces a slow down at stop points and cross section with none of the detriments to cycling carried by speed bumps and speed cushions.
For the uninitiated a speed table is a raised section of road, usually at a junction that is at least three metres long. At junctions they tend to be the entire box of the junction.
Oh god no :crash: , I forgot about speed tables & bumps when I posted earlier. The ones the council installed - and then took out - in the centre of Oxford caused me to take a very nasty tumble on one occasion. Even ridden slowly they were horrific to negotiate by bicycle.
The best respected cycle facility, by all road users in my experience, is a simple dashed or solid line marking bike "territory" at the edge of the carriageway. It acts like a constant reminder that bikes are to be expected, and cars seem to keep their distance better when this marker is present. The advanced stop line, allowing bikes ahead of cars at traffic lights is also beneficial. Nothing else I have seen does much to favour cycle traffic.
However, I will say that a method to slow traffic in residential areas is very desirable - what ideas has anyone thought or seen that could improve the situation?
Cheers,
Ed
late
02-13-06, 10:19 AM
The speed bumps we have here are easy. They don't go quite all the way across; and they are gradual enough that I've never had a problem.
I thnk bumps would be great if the alternative was blocks...
barba
02-13-06, 10:24 AM
Is it legal for a neighborhood group to decide to place concrete blocks into a public street? This sounds like a recipe for lawsuits, broken wheels and worse.
I am quite sympathetic to slowing traffic, but there has to be a better way. Radar triggered cameras (and prominent notifications of their existence) and those signs that show people their current speed (I am not sure what they are called) seem better ideas.
The college up the road also installed islands in the center of the two lanes (with nice flowers) to also slow things up a bit. I don't know that it works, but it looks nicer than a cinder block.
DigitalQuirk
02-13-06, 10:51 AM
Here's a better idea: Get a couple of the residents living on that street to buy a white Impala with black steel wheels (or whatever make and model of car the local police tend to favour). Back them into the driveway, leaving them at the end so they're visable. Also get the police to do a few random speed traps from unmarked cruisers parked in the same manner.
Nothing calms traffic in my city better than a white steel-wheeled Impala.
atbman
02-13-06, 01:09 PM
"pinch points" have to be the stupidest idea in the world. Its fatal for a cyclist that doesn't take up the whole lane. For car drivers who know where they are, it doesn't slow them down, I just pretend its a chicane and go rumble strip to rumble strip without having to slow down.
If you don't know its there, it just makes you swerve at the same time oncoming traffic is swerving, which is never a good idea.
What in the world were they thinking.
Badly designed, yes. Properly designed (with cyclist cut-throughs), no. Used to commute daily along street and had few problems. There were the occasional idiots, of course.
For good design google Homezones. Try these:
http://www.methleys.org.uk/homezones/home-f.html
http://www.york.gov.uk/roads/highwaydesign/homezones.pdf
There are plenty more
atbman
02-13-06, 01:11 PM
Ps. From my personal knowledge, the Methleys Homezone put the prices of the old terrace houses up by £20k overnight.
Get the residents to look into hte idea. Don't know if there are any in the US
The Seldom Kill
02-13-06, 01:38 PM
Oh god no :crash: , I forgot about speed tables & bumps when I posted earlier. The ones the council installed - and then took out - in the centre of Oxford caused me to take a very nasty tumble on one occasion. Even ridden slowly they were horrific to negotiate by bicycle.
I can understand bumps and cushions as problematic to cycle over but not tables. Almost all the ones that I've ridden over, admittedly only in London and Amsterdam, were no hinderance at all at speeds up to 20mph. Only about two or three were not installed well and felt uncomfortable to ride over.
My local cycling group recommended them to the council as a prefered traffic calming scheme all the time and I don't recall anyone from that group objecting because they found them hazardous either. I would have to suspect that the ones in Oxford were badly installed.
Da Tinker
02-13-06, 06:50 PM
Here's a better idea: Get a couple of the residents living on that street to buy a white Impala with black steel wheels (or whatever make and model of car the local police tend to favour). Back them into the driveway, leaving them at the end so they're visable. Also get the police to do a few random speed traps from unmarked cruisers parked in the same manner.
Nothing calms traffic in my city better than a white steel-wheeled Impala.
Yep, back when police around here all drove Crown Vic's, my company car was a white CV. Park that suckert at the end of the drive and watch the average speed drop.
To make even more interesting, my next door neighbor was good friends with the local sheriff. I gave them written permission to park a patrol car in my drive. My house was in the middle of a long, straight stretch of road. Sometimes the patrol car was tucked behind my car, which was even more fun.
Da Tinker
02-13-06, 07:08 PM
On a more serious note, there are speed tables (speed lumps) designed to be retrofitted on streets. These are bike friendly, but effective at slowing traffic. The one pictured is not the best install, since I feel there is not enough usable pavement on the outside edge, but it's a start. It's also on the approaches to a ball field complex.
sbhikes
02-13-06, 07:34 PM
My city is experimenting with mini-roudabouts. Nobody likes them. I finally found one of them and didn't think it was all that bad. But man are people upset!
Brad M
02-13-06, 07:48 PM
How could something like that be bike unfriendly? It's a smooth hump, and not a big one at that.
slagjumper
02-14-06, 11:57 AM
My city is experimenting with mini-roudabouts. Nobody likes them. I finally found one of them and didn't think it was all that bad. But man are people upset!
Traffic circles are too confusing for Americans. There is only one real roundabout in Pittsburgh and people just dont understand that they have to:
1) Keep right
2) Yield (What does that mean?) to vehicles that are allready in the circle.
In addition blind people hate them. And lord knows that the city does not want 30 angry blind people on them, "like white on rice" over this issue.
I actually do like them and think that they are smarter than 4 ways stops, but take a bit more space.
Da Tinker
02-15-06, 11:12 AM
The locals were all up in arms over the prototype roundabout to be installed here. Funny thing was, after it was installed and folks learned how to use it, they like it. It actually works. But bear in mind this was a well-designed roundabout, which took the place of a four-way stop. Commuting time traffic now flows much smoother through this intersection, without the long start & stop delays of before. As a result of the test, the plan is to emplace 27 roundabouts here in the near future.
Attached is the roundabout layout and entire plan is here: http://www.lafayettelinc.net/MPO/Maps/round/intro.asp
khuon
02-15-06, 11:37 AM
The locals were all up in arms over the prototype roundabout to be installed here. Funny thing was, after it was installed and folks learned how to use it, they like it. It actually works. But bear in mind this was a well-designed roundabout, which took the place of a four-way stop.
The key is making sure that it is defined as a roundabout and enforcing proper roundabout rules governing its use. And of course the population needs to be better educated as to how to deal with roundabouts. We have a few roundabouts around here. There are two general problems.
The roundabouts are not properly treated as roundabouts but more like speed-obstacles meaning they're not there to necessarily control and redirect traffic as much as they're glorified speed-bumps. For instance, in some places, people are allowed to go "the wrong way" around a roundabout to make a "turn" onto an intersecting street. This was probably done because people complained about not being able to negotiate a round-about properly. I think roundabouts designed with the streets intersecting at an oblique angle positioned towards the proper directgion of traffic are better than ones that come in straight on.
When a roundabout is clearly marked and properly identified as a roundabout, people tend to have a problem actually using it properly. They don't signal exitting a roundabout for instance. Mind you that most of the roundabouts we have here are single-lane. The few multilane ones tend to be designed such that the outer lane must exit at the next cross-street thus is treated like a "right turn only" lane. Although I myself like roundabouts, given the lack of signalling and lane usage/design in roundabouts I've seen in my area, I'd hate for them to be placed enmasse here as they are in other countries.
noisebeam
02-15-06, 12:06 PM
The key is making sure that it is defined as a roundabout and enforcing proper roundabout rules governing its use. And of course the population needs to be better educated as to how to deal with roundabouts. We have a few roundabouts around here. There are two general problems.
When I last visited Ithaca, NY the city was in the process of installing speed tables (I might have even posted about it here!). IIRC they weren't a problem on a bike. Narrowing the road with "pinch points" sounds like a collosally bad idea to me. Speed tables? Sounds fine.
randya
02-15-06, 02:38 PM
Portland used the curb extensions or pinch points. Primary justification is to make the crossing distance shorter for pedestrians. IMO, they are often a hazard to bicyclists, forcing them unnecessarily out into the lane, and I agree with most of the similar comments above.
misteralz
02-22-06, 06:54 AM
Speed bumps? They only encourage more folk into SUVs...
Up here we have some really bad ones that are like two or three seperate humps in a line across the road. Fine, if you have an SUV. However, if you've a short-wheelbase hot hatch like myself, with not much ground clearance, then I have to drive over two of them otherwise I will ground my car out. Either that or mount the kerb. Picture the scene - reasonably busy speed-bumped street, oncoming traffic too, and I have to stop prior to the bump (with my indicator on so no-one tries to pass me when the traffic clears), wait for the traffic to clear, move out to the middle of the road, negotiate bump, move back into proper lane, repeat to fade...
I don't want to think about the environmental consequences, and I know I'm not the only one!
jimmuter
02-22-06, 09:58 AM
I think our traffic 'calming' methods here consist of allowing pot holes to fester and road conditions to deteriorate to such a point as it is hazardous to a vehicle to drive fast. We also have a number of residential streets with speed bumps, rumble strips, and mini roundabouts. It may calm traffic, but seems to enrage motorists. I live around the corner from a street with speed bumps. I hear cars gunning it between the bumps and I'm thankful I don't have my kids playing near that street, and I don't live in one of the houses between humps.