Folding Bikes - 16" Wheel Downtube?

It was mentioned a while ago that Downtube may be planning to carry a 16" wheel folding bike. I tried to search older threads for more info, but didn't come up with anything. I am hoping Yan at downtube will read this and give us a little more info on the topic. Is this a mere rumor? Is it true? Will it happen soon? You get the idea.
Imquiring minds want to know!!! juan162 :D

why should he do that it makes no sense ? Building 16 inchers would just increase his costs.

Supposedly it was going to be a Brompton sized competitor. The earliest I heard that they might arrive would be around August. He also will have an internal hub version of the normal DT as well.

It was mentioned a while ago that Downtube may be planning to carry a 16" wheel folding bike. I tried to search older threads for more info, but didn't come up with anything. I am hoping Yan at downtube will read this and give us a little more info on the topic. Is this a mere rumor? Is it true? Will it happen soon? You get the idea.
Imquiring minds want to know!!! juan162 :D

I have pushed up the delivery date for the Downtube Mini due to strong sales of the VIII and VIIIFS. If all goes well with testing and manufacturing I should have some in late May. I have speced the mini with Shimano Capreo components, however due to long lead time (90+ days) I am also getting some Sturmey Archer internal 8sp models. The bike will have a alloy frame with rear suspension, a nice alloy stem with alloy rise handlebars. I love the color.......light green (limish)

I will post pics as soon as the graphics are ready.

Thanks,
Yan

is it a brompton style 16" folder?

Hey Yan, are you trying to copy the color of my Swift? I thought I'd have the only green bike on here. :D

Hey Yan, are you trying to copy the color of my Swift? I thought I'd have the only green bike on here. :D

No worries it is a much lighter shade of green.

I will copy your color on my next bike :)

Thanks,
Yan

Hey Yan, are you trying to copy the color of my Swift? I thought I'd have the only green bike on here. :D

Hey Wav, you're lucky that I want the Swift that I'm getting to be somewhat inconspicuous so I am leaving it black. ;)

SG

is it a brompton style 16" folder?

Yes and no. Brompton is the market leader, and justifiably so. Our goal is not to copy or compete with Brompton. We simply want to introduce a great mini folding bike with mid range componentry that is comfortable to ride.....and sell it at an entry level price.

Thanks,
Yan

Yes and no. Brompton is the market leader, and justifiably so. Our goal is not to copy or compete with Brompton. We simply want to introduce a great mini folding bike with mid range componentry that is comfortable to ride.....and sell it at an entry level price.

Thanks,
Yan

Cheers Yan. I wasnt aware you did speccing etc of bikes.

Is the folding style similar to a Brompton or similar to existing fold? I also wasnt aware Browmpton was a market leader - or do you mean the 16" niche?

Cheers Yan. I wasnt aware you did speccing etc of bikes.

Is the folding style similar to a Brompton or similar to existing fold? I also wasnt aware Browmpton was a market leader - or do you mean the 16" niche?

I think Brompton is the premier brand for compact folding bikes....hence my quote stating market leader.

The frame fold is similar to the existing VIII and FS bikes. However, the stem is different....slick looking and light alloy with removable faceplate, however it is not height adjustable. I was tempted to use it on our VIII and FS bikes, however I concluded height adjustablility is more important.

Thanks,
Yan

why should he do that it makes no sense ? Building 16 inchers would just increase his costs.
Why? Because for some people, even 20" wheel base bikes are a little too big for their specific needs. I for one have been very interested in the Downtubes, but saw no reason to get one with my current stable of bikes. I HAVE been wanting a 16inch wheebase bike for multimode commuting into Manhattan, but was not happy with the dahon selection or the price of the Bromptons. When I heard of the possibility of a DT 16" wheel bike, I got really excited!!! :D I can't wait to see it and can safely say I will be saving up for one, even before seeing the specs and pics (expecially after seeing and hearing all the raves in this forum!!!)
The 20" market is crowded with competitiors, but the 16" market only has 2 big players. I think this could be an even bigger success for the Downtube company (if I could buy DT stock, I would be buying right now!!!:):):)).
juan162

I have pushed up the delivery date for the Downtube Mini due to strong sales of the VIII and VIIIFS. If all goes well with testing and manufacturing I should have some in late May. I have speced the mini with Shimano Capreo components, however due to long lead time (90+ days) I am also getting some Sturmey Archer internal 8sp models. The bike will have a alloy frame with rear suspension, a nice alloy stem with alloy rise handlebars. I love the color.......light green (limish)

I will post pics as soon as the graphics are ready.

Thanks,
Yan
Yan,
As it has been said before, you are the most incredible company owner I have ever met. Thank you for replying to my post. I am really excited to see pics. The only problem is, I don't know if I want the Capreo components or the Sturmey Archer components. Maybe I'll need to save up for one of each
:D ...I don't think the wife would like that so much.:eek:
juan162

I think Brompton is the premier brand for compact folding bikes....hence my quote stating market leader.

The frame fold is similar to the existing VIII and FS bikes. However, the stem is different....slick looking and light alloy with removable faceplate, however it is not height adjustable. I was tempted to use it on our VIII and FS bikes, however I concluded height adjustablility is more important.

Thanks,
Yan

@Yan - any photos of your new bikes yet? I am interested in all of the but specifically the new internal hub version. Also the one that could compete with the Brompton would be interesting as well. I looked on your website and didn't see anything yet but they could have been buried somewhere and I could have missed them.

Thanks!

@Yan - any photos of your new bikes yet? I am interested in all of the but specifically the new internal hub version. Also the one that could compete with the Brompton would be interesting as well. I looked on your website and didn't see anything yet but they could have been buried somewhere and I could have missed them.

Thanks!

See attached sample pics.

Thanks,
Yan

See attached sample pics.

Thanks,
Yan

They look pretty nice. What size wheels on the green one? Will the hubbed one come in different colors too? I could see myself buying one of each. :D

Will fenders be available for either one? Any specs on weight yet and folded size?

They look pretty nice. What size wheels on the green one? Will the hubbed one come in different colors too? I could see myself buying one of each. :D

Will fenders be available for either one? Any specs on weight yet and folded size?

VIIIH will come in Silver only. I had an Orange built up for myself, however I will probably sell it if anyone is interested.

VIIIH and VIII are identical except for the hub/casette/shifters. I will not announce a weight until they are landed in April.

Thanks,
Yan

The green one with internal gearing (no Derailleur) has a nice selling point for me. May consider one!!

I'll take a silver VIIIH then. I like the Orange but I need something a little less flashy for my next project. What size wheels on the new green one; 16"?

I'll take a silver VIIIH then. I like the Orange but I need something a little less flashy for my next project. What size wheels on the new green one; 16"?

yes 16" wheels

Thanks,
Yan

Do you have any dimensions on the 16" model both folded and unfolded? Will it take "normal" sized rear hubs so that I could possibly convert it to an internal hub?

And the most important question of all:

Will it fit, just by folding, into conventional luggage (65 linear inches) so we can travel without getting into assembly/disassembly?

I may be wrong, but this little bike smells like supreme success! I want one but I want one NOW!

Yan, please DO NOT upload pictures of bikes that are not available...now I can't sleep!!

Another thing that I believe there is some room for improvement with the Downtube bikes is the lack of a place to carry them when folded. This little thing would look so nice if you could carry it without moving parts actually moving...

Do you have any dimensions on the 16" model both folded and unfolded? Will it take "normal" sized rear hubs so that I could possibly convert it to an internal hub?

I don't have the folded dimension, I'll get it posted soon. Shimano Capreo have a long lead time therefore I will have 8sp Sturmey Archer internal hub spec'd on my first shipment....no conversion needed!

Thanks,
Yan

Great! So then you will have basically 2 hubbed models 1 each with 16" and 20" wheel respectively. Put me down for 1 each then (16&20) with the internal hubs. I may need another 16" wheeled one though. Any color choice or just green (not that I am opposed to green)?

And the most important question of all:

Will it fit, just by folding, into conventional luggage (65 linear inches) so we can travel without getting into assembly/disassembly?

I may be wrong, but this little bike smells like supreme success! I want one but I want one NOW!

Yan, please DO NOT upload pictures of bikes that are not available...now I can't sleep!!

Another thing that I believe there is some room for improvement with the Downtube bikes is the lack of a place to carry them when folded. This little thing would look so nice if you could carry it without moving parts actually moving...

Rafael,

You are the folding bike travel king! I can't answer your question until I begin my testing ( about 3 weeks).

Thanks,
Yan

Great! So then you will have basically 2 hubbed models 1 each with 16" and 20" wheel respectively. Put me down for 1 each then (16&20) with the internal hubs. I may need another 16" wheeled one though. Any color choice or just green (not that I am opposed to green)?

Only green for now. You may want to prebook the mini, I am only getting 10 on the first shipment. Following shipments should have 50+.

FYI my warehouse people are going crazy with all the different models and colors. I will expand colors choices to in 2007.

Thanks,
Yan

I like them both, too, and will hopefully be getting one of the 16" wheel ones...I'd really like to get an orange 20" wheel one too, but my wife might seriously kill me:)
If you are able to sell frames, do you have an idea of their cost yet (just ballpark would be fine)?
juan162

I like them both, too, and will hopefully be getting one of the 16" wheel ones...I'd really like to get an orange 20" wheel one too, but my wife might seriously kill me:)
If you are able to sell frames, do you have an idea of their cost yet (just ballpark would be fine)?
juan162

Juan,

We are growing at a fast pace, adding many more new product lines could be problematic. Therefore we will take it slow, I know that we will not be able to supply frames until after this season.

Thanks,
Yan

Yan,
Thanks for putting up with all my questions. You truly are a gentleman. I am seriously going to be buying a bike from you, and it will most probably be the 16" one. Thanks again, juan162

My god! That green one looks Spiffy! With a bike that looks like that you could be HUUUGGEE Yan ha ha. Well if you wanted to be that is. Especially in Japan! Maybe add a 'Hello Kitty' sticker option! ;)

No seriously, i love that green one and am pretty sure i will buy one. I know it is very premature since there is no testing yet, but..

1. Do you think the wheelbase will be long enough to give high efficiency and good handling? Comparable to the 20 inch DT's or 'lesser' after all..?

If you have no idea as yet i understand of course!

Really digging the Skinny fork, beefy tubes (the rear triangle looks like it could survive WW3!) vastly improved Chainring/crank combo, the Capreo (good clearance even on 16 inch!) and fat tires. The slightly swept back handlebars seem like a great idea for added comfort too! Man, i am so excited about this one! Cool color too, even if it isn't the height of "Mad Max masculinity" it is extremely pretty and very original!

I see an eyelet on the back and one on the fork,.. any idea if (special) racks could be added for touring? How about fenders?

If someone said i could have a Moulton or this bike for free i'd opt for the DT every time!! Unless i could sell the Moulton and buy 4 DT's ha ha.

The wheels look like they are extremely strong! Lots of spokes close together. I will be most curious to find out (after testing) what this ride will weigh in at. Those tires look a little like Tioga Comp Pools..
The pedals i have never seen before but they look nice.

I might be getting carried away but i could imagine adding a really low rack on the back, a waterproof Crate with lid and touring the world on this one!
In a word: Stunning.

wow... you guys sure are nerds... how can you pick all these details out of 1 pic?! :)

vince - you should write for magazine, your use of hyperbole and adjectival phrasing is unsurpassed. using this bike for touring the world... ? seriously?

Yan - on the green model - whats under the stickers?

Only green for now. You may want to prebook the mini, I am only getting 10 on the first shipment. Following shipments should have 50+.

FYI my warehouse people are going crazy with all the different models and colors. I will expand colors choices to in 2007.

Thanks,
Yan

Ok, put me down for 2 of the mini 16" ones to start. You have now sold 20% of your first shipment. :D

I may want one from the next shipment too. Also I am serious about one of silver hubbed 20" ones too. Do you want me to PayPal you a deposit? Let me know.

@ AWOL. If you mean those two compliments (nerd and writing) i have to tell you:

Thanks a lot, really! That made my day!! You are the second person this week to tell me i should write for 'someone'. I am sure it sounds immodest but i only wish i had more time and patience to work on my posts as i know i can write significantly better than i do on forums.

Even if you don't mean them, thanks anyway, put a smile on my face.

Funny you should say that though,.. it is exactly what i have recently started doing, writing for a bike company! It is a small job but i am supremely happy to get it. Just before i checked in here i was working on three (new) articles.

As for using this bike for touring the world.. i am absolutely, deadly, most certainly serious! People have toured the world on Moultons and Bromptons and lots of other folders, Heinz Stucke (as i keep saying) is touring about a hundred Km's / day every day on a Bike Friday. I see no reason why someone couldn't do the same on this folder providing the handling and wheelbase are up to the task. It definately seems sturdy enough and of great quality, one might want to add a double or triple chainring or possibly a Mountaindrive bottom bracket and it would be just fine i think. I love the idea that the center of gravity could be extremely low. The only problem might be serious off road touring, wheels and clearance are probably not the best choice for that. But touring somewhat paved roads around the world? Why Not?
Yesss, i can see it now! ;) Slap on a Brooks Flyer, a Brompton style front clamp/bag, a hind rack & crate as well as mudguards, a hydrations system or three water bottles and never looking back!

Can't wait for the specs! (How's that for Nerd) :)

Folders are probably the most overlooked and underestimated style of bikes today.

I hope i will one day at least do an extended tour on it.

i know the touring capabilities of folders but i really just cant see a bike spec'd as low as the DTs (or other low end spec bikes) could be up to the challenge.

congrats on the bike co job!

Folders are probably the most overlooked and underestimated style of bikes today.

Isn't that the truth. Folders are small but serious bikes that most people don't take seriously. Whenever I get another folder I take it to my LBS (non-folder one) and have them try. Each time they come away amazed at how good they have gotten but continue to think that they won't sell in America. You can buy a decent DT for about the price of a Trek 7200 and have a very capable bike but MUCH more versatile.

That is the beauty of a folder; versatility! They come in all shapes and sizes now but they can take up much less space when you don't use them. Conversely why have a bike if you don't use it? Since my folders are very portable I have one with me at almost all times. Since they are easy to pack in a suitcase I ALWAYS take them on trips. I have bike from Eastern Siberia through a lot of Europe on a folder. Sadly I've biked in more different areas in Europe on a folder than I have in the US. However I always keep a folder in the trunk (boot) of my car in case I see an interesting place to explore. As a result I ride a lot more than I did before and this keeps me in better health.

I have a very nice carbon fiber road bike with full Campy gruppe but I doubt that I rode that bike 100 miles this past year and it is a damn shame. However that speaks to how well folders in general have advanced. I am absolutely smitten by my Swift. It appeals to me on many levels such as performance, comfort, style, uniqueness, etc. The Downtubes however are an excellent value and coupled with Yan's responsiveness make for an almost risk free purchase.

They may not be the top of the line but as Yan says "They are a bike with mid-level components at an entry level price." They are the perfect first step for someone getting into the folder fold who doesn't have a clear idea of what they want and they may never outgrow it too. I have turned into a real folderholic and I have really started to have a more discriminating palette. Even though I have more discerning tastes than before I still appreciate the basic goodness of each Downtube. What minor issues I’ve had Yan has promptly addressed. Sure they can be upgraded BUT for most people they don’t need to be. After people ride the ‘Tubes for a while they may see areas where they are lacking for their own needs but many never will. However the low price will get people thinking about folders that never would have previously thought about them. Because of this the more upscale builders such as Swift and Bike Friday will likely benefit from more people in the folder fold. Yan indirectly benefits them and the more people that buy folders the more we ALL benefit.

I think Bruce Metras and I should meet up somewhere and sponsor a folder only ride. We could offer a few folders to ride if people didn’t have their own. Actually a folder only (or at least focused) club could be pretty cool. Maybe we could have world chapters and come up with some pretty cool stickers and patches. I know there is the Folder Society in England but it seems very Brompton centric (even though they don’t claim to be just like A to B magazine). Anyone else interested?

@ AWOL, thanks! I am very happy with the job.

As for the specs on the DT's i would agree to quite a large degree before, the previous DT's seemed a bit underspec'd for a true world tour that would cover 10.000's of KM's. However the Mini seems quite a step above in terms of components when compared to the previous models (and hence will cost more). I really think the Mini might be up to the job with a relatively low number of tweaks or adaptations. Another thing which i think makes it very suited is the standardization, even If something does wear out 'en route' almost everything is standard and quite easily bought locally or otherwise send by rapid mail. I guess if ever i did any serious touring i would carry at least one Spare Tire and tube though, 16 inch is somewhat less common than 20 i think.

Say Wav, if i started a "chapter" here could members wear a cool denim vest that said:

'Rotterdam Folder Chapter'
1%
Dirty Few'
? ;)

No but seriously it is a great idea, i am surprised Dahon hasn't done such a thing already. BF is pretty smart to have a similair system (people can try out the rides of BF owners in their vincity by checking on line database).

i know the touring capabilities of folders but i really just cant see a bike spec'd as low as the DTs (or other low end spec bikes) could be up to the challenge.

congrats on the bike co job!

The truth is the DT's are mid-range spec'd bikes at entry level prices. That is the what all the fuss is about. You get pretty decent stuff for not a lot of money. I can say that so far I've had no major issues with any of my DT's. The is nothing on them that I'd say is terrible except for the grips. They will fall apart pretty quickly if left in the sun for too long in a hot climate. I've had these same type grips and they tear easily, hate sun but feel pretty good while they last.

@ Wav, i only now read all of your longer previous post, +1 and Amen to all that!

Actually a folder only (or at least focused) club could be pretty cool. Maybe we could have world chapters and come up with some pretty cool stickers and patches. I know there is the Folder Society in England but it seems very Brompton centric (even though they don’t claim to be just like A to B magazine). Anyone else interested?

I am. Maybe we can get some support from folder manufacturers,even get a website to promote mods, share pictures, etc...

I would love to get involved.

Rafael

I am. Maybe we can get some support from folder manufacturers,even get a website to promote mods, share pictures, etc...

I would love to get involved.

Rafael

Cool. More people the better generally. We could setup our own website for general photo hosting and where there are members. It wouldn't take too much to setup. We could become evangelists for the folder revoluton. They newbies could come into the fold...

If we face it seriously, we are not selling anything initially BUT we still need:

a business plan (some outlines of what we want, how to do it and how time comsuming/costly it will be. Here we also create the identity - name, definition, colors, logo/patch, etc...);

a marketing plan (how we can increase awareness and attract people - From folder enthusiasts to dealers to celebrities, whatever). It is not fun to have a club with 2 members.

a guideline, timeline or schedule.

I am a graduate student, professor assistant (in one city) and work part time somewhere else outside campus ( in another city). I can still put some hours a week to make it happen though.

I think it is a good time to create it's own topic OR just start with e-mails and leave the 16" Downtube bike thread alone. (=

Wow this thread got popular fast!

Let me add my thoughts on the mini. First I am a bigger guy and 20" wheeled folders fit me better, hence I would not take the mini on a tour. FYI I plan on taking an FS on a European tour this summer.

I will be testing the Capreo mini in a few weeks, l will post results here for all to view. Any bike that can hold up to my testing should be fine for 99% of the population....I am rough on my bikes.

Does everyone know about the folding bike convention in Philly? It is run by a Trophy bikes. It is usually around the time of the US Pro Cycling championships. They have a folding bike crit with prizes. I missed it last year.....I was teaching in Greenville until early June. Maybe everyone could meet up there? I'll bring a few bikes :)

Thanks,
Yan

@Yan - maybe you are finally seeing the pent up demand for a Brompton competitor. Don't forget to mark me down for 2 of the minis and 1 of the 20" hub models; seriously! The sooner the better if possible. :D

@Yan - maybe you are finally seeing the pent up demand for a Brompton competitor. Don't forget to mark me down for 2 of the minis and 1 of the 20" hub models; seriously! The sooner the better if possible. :D

I got you down, however I will not accept any prepayments until these are on the boat. So far every container has had at least 1 month delay. I am alloting for the lag time in my posted estimates.

Thanks,
Yan

I see an eyelet on the back and one on the fork,.. any idea if (special) racks could be added for touring?

I see the eyelets, too. But on the orange one, it looks to me like there are a pair of eyelets on the left leg of the fork only. If so, and Jan correct me if I'm wrong, that fork might be designed to accept a disc brake - which would be very extremely cool for touring applications.

I am crossing my fingers.

I see the eyelets, too. But on the orange one, it looks to me like there are a pair of eyelets on the left leg of the fork only. If so, and Jan correct me if I'm wrong, that fork might be designed to accept a disc brake - which would be very extremely cool for touring applications.

I am crossing my fingers.

Yes the H will accept disc brakes. The 2006 FS accepts discs. I am putting a disc on my FS right now. I am using a Velocity Thracian disc wheel (black color) with a black FS bike.....looks sooooooooo cool!!!!

Thanks,
yan

Hot Damn, a disk brake option too! That's pretty classy.

Oh yeah, one more thing about my 'hyperbole' and giving props to DT, just for the record, i am also extremely critical and even brutal if i find something lacking or dissapointing (as can be seen on other threads) it is just everything i have seen and heard about the DT has never warranted this.

Say Wav., if you do get those 3 other DT's how many folders will that be total for you? Maybe you and Raph. are going to have to open a Folder rehab clinic while you are at it. ;)

Hot Damn, a disk brake option too! That's pretty classy.

Oh yeah, one more thing about my 'hyperbole' and giving props to DT, just for the record, i am also extremely critical and even brutal if i find something lacking or dissapointing (as can be seen on other threads) it is just everything i have seen and heard about the DT has never warranted this.

Say Wav., if you do get those 3 other DT's how many folders will that be total for you? Maybe you and Raph. are going to have to open a Folder rehab clinic while you are at it. ;)

Actually the disc tabs are standard on all 2006 FS and H bikes.

Everyone has been so helpful with advice, I want to thank you all. Just last week, I was just told to put S hooks on the VIII model so panniers will snap right on.....great idea!

Just found the info on the folding bike festival:

THE ROUND*UP Small Wheel/Folder Bike Fest-- JUNE 9-10-11. Three Days to Explore the Compact Bicycle Universe. See/ride/fold the latest from Brompton, Dahon, Moulton, Birdy, Bike Friday, Xootr-Swift, and many other amazing folder bikes from all over the planet. Includes workshops and talks, a time trial, road ride, and the return of the Fast Fold Throwdown! THIS EVENT IS FREE TO ALL FOLDING BIKE RIDERS/FANS, BUT RESERVATIONS ARE SUGGESTED--.RSVP to mcget@aol.com with your particulars, including favorite small wheel bike.

Thanks,
Yan

Where is the event taking place? I am interested.

Say Wav., if you do get those 3 other DT's how many folders will that be total for you? Maybe you and Raph. are going to have to open a Folder rehab clinic while you are at it. ;)

It is sad but I didn't know off the top of my head. I am actually having to think about that answer. Here is my current stable:

1 Swift
1 BF
2 DTs (3 more on order so to speak)
3 Dahons
2 Bromptons

I think that covers it but I may be missing one. If I get the new job I am hoping for I'll be ordering a new Bike Friday tandem convertible as well (it converts from a tandem to a single). Problem is my garage has run out of space to keep them and now it is impacting where I park my cars. I only try and fold them up when absolutely necessary. Why wear the joints and the ostensibly the weakest link any more than necessary.

Before I accumulate any more though I'll probably sell of 2 of my Dahons and maybe one of my DTs. From now on I am going almost 100% with hub gears. I can't wait to get my hands on one of the new SRAM 9speed internal hubs that will be out in the for the '07 model year. Can you say ~340% gear range! Yea baby! That is what I am talking about compine that with a Schlumpf drive and you could have anywhere from 560% to 850% gear range. Wooo hooo!!! I could have ultra-low granny gears for major hills and still have an 90RPM cadence at 45 mph down a hill.