Sore neck with extreme seat angle

[Mars]

I ride an HP Velotechnik SpeedMachine, which has a seat that tilts way back. Last night, I decided to put the seat in the lowest/most aero position available. I did notice a speed gain this morning on the way to work, but had to crik my neck more than I am used to. It got a bit sore by the time I arrived.

Will my muscles adapt to this with more use or should I either buy a headrest or put the seat back up? What do you folks with lowracer experience think?

[BlazingPedals]

Most lowracer riders report that their muscles adapt in a few days. I'm riding with my Baron's seat fully reclined. I had a neckrest on it at one point, but decided that it was just useless weight while riding. It was handy for when I was stopped, though.

[bentrox!]

I use a carbon fiber neckrest, a lighter option than a conventional headrest assembly, on my Baron's carbon fiber seat. This very simple leaf-spring stub provides just the right amount of suspension support at the base of my skull, below and between the RocLoc adjusters of my helmet. It weighs so little I believe my riding gloves weigh more. If bents are noted for their comfort on your back, shoulders, arms and wrists why leave your neck out of the equation? I don't constantly use the support of the neckrest but I'm glad its there when I want to.

[Mars]

Thanks guys. I will try riding for a while without a neckrest and see how it goes. It seems easier already, but I'm thinking it might get tough for the long rides I'm planning this summer.

[dogsridewith]

HELMET REST
Forget stiff neck, neck rest, head rest.
Helmet rest, and a flat-back skaters style CPSC approved helmet.

[bentrox!]

I don't think Mars' helmet ever needs a rest, his neck does though. :)

[LandLuger]

With some time in the saddle I found that I could go about three hours non-stop w/o a headrest. But I wish I had one from time to time. It is helpful to support your neck with one of your hands when conditions allow such as protracted climbs where aerodynamics really don't matter. One interesting thing that I have noticed is that I can go for many hours on the trainer with the same neck angle to the horizon with no neck fatique. I guess this is the drag of the wind pushing against my face and/or the bumps in the road.

[John C. Ratliff]

There is a field of study called "ergonomics" that I have been practicing at work for many years. Basically, this study of human factors engineering shows how people should interface with machines, whether it is at work, or in a car or an airplane (it came into favor during WWII when pilots were having a hard time controlling fighter airplanes because of poorly designed controls and guages). It can be applied to bicycles too.

The condition you are describing as the "mirror image" of the condition in road bicycling long distances (such as the Race Across America, or RAAM) called "Shermer's Neck."

Consider that the head weighs approximately 20 pounds. If it is not suspended over your bony skeleton (the vertebra), then it must be held up by muscular action. On a regular recumbant, like my Rans Stratus, the head is held by the neck vertebra, and not by muscular action. This is one of the big features of recumbant cycling, and one I noticed (I stopped getting headaches when I switched to the recumbant position).

But if you tip the seat way back, so that you are nearly horizontal, and provide no neck/head support, you will pay for it. Over time, yes your muscles can get stronger and continue to hold up your head. But the neck muscles are not just holding 20 pounds, though that is the weight of the head (approximately). This is on the end of a lever, and let's say that this lever (the attachment of the muscles to the bone) is in the chest area, approximately 10 inches away for every inch of leverage that the attachments apply. This is a 10:1 ratio, which means that your neck muscles are holding approximately 200 pounds under normal circumstances. Now, lets add some vibration to this, and an occasional bounce. A hard bounce can add a factor (let's say conservatively a factor of 2x) to this weight, which now brings the amount to 400 pounds instantaniously. But the neck muscles, conditioned as they are, can hold that much...for awhile.

Eventually the neck muscles tire (fatigue), and can no longer function. This is the mirror image of Shermer's Neck, because it is not the strong back and neck muscles that attach to the back that are being fatigued (which is "Shermer's Neck"), but the weaker neck muscles of the chest and front of the neck that must do the work, and not stop. This can only go on so long without support.

One other thing to think about is the drain this has to your energy output. Imagine holding a two pound weight at arm's length while you are riding. It seems stupid, and looks stupid too. But upright cyclists do this all the time with their heads. You will be doing the same thing in an extreme recumbant position without support. Every ATP that your neck muscles must use to keep your head up is an ATP that you don't have for your driving force in your leg muscles.

But as a recumbant rider, you are lucky. This position readily accomodates a head brack off the seat. Upright bicyclists don't have this luxury. I just bought a new book called Ride for Life, How to ride to 100 by Roy M. Wallack and Bill Katovsky. They describe how Dan Crain, at age 59, tried riding the the famed Furnace Creek 508 (508 miles):

...He didn't plan, however, on "Shermer Neck."

"With less than 100 miles to go in the 508, I could no longer hold my neck up," he said. "It was falling forward like a rag doll. I literally couldn't see." It was a classic case of the condition first suffered by RAAM (Race Across America) pioneer Mike Shermer, in which riding in an aerobar tuck causes the muscles of the hyperextended neck to collapse.

Crain's crew tried in vain to keep him riding. First they cut a four-inch strip of sleeping pad and fashioned itinto a neck brace, but "I couldn't breathe and it compressed my aorta--it was stopping blood from getting to my head." Next, they hooked bungee cords from the back of his helmet, down to a trap under his arms, around his chest and back again. "But it didn't feel safe to me. I could feel the vertebrae in my neck being pinched--felt like I was going todamage myself." After 420 miles, with his legs feeling great, Crain hadto drop out of the 508

But there's a silver lining. "I DNFed [did not finish] but had the ride of my life!" he shouted. "So I'm very optimistic for next year. I'll add neck exercises to my training, do wrestler's bridges, raise my handlebars an inch or two, and be back even stronger."

Well, I would continue with the recumbant design, rather than go through that, and use a neck brace if I was in the heavily reclined position, as that is what the recumbant bike is designed to do for us.

John

[ppc]

I had the same sore neck problem, and for a while I got into the habit of bowing my head forward as much as possible to relieve muscle tensions (kind of like when you're dead drunk in a sofa and dozing off). It does work somewhat, but it wasn't ideal. What really solved the problem was a headrest. Yes it makes the bike a tad heavier, but who cares if it makes the ride 10x more enjoyable.

[bentrox!]

I had the same sore neck problem.. What really solved the problem was a headrest. Yes it makes the bike a tad heavier, but who cares if it makes the ride 10x more enjoyable.

While both provide the needed support, a headrest assembly will be heavier than a simpler neckrest. I use the latter. The 10x more enjoyable ride costs only 3 ounces.

[Trsnrtr]

I use a carbon fiber neckrest, a lighter option than a conventional headrest assembly, on my Baron's carbon fiber seat.

Any particular model? Or home brew?

-Dennis

[bentrox!]

I purchased a Velokraft neckrest from Dana at bentupcycles.com but I found its length above the seat awkward and cut it down by three inches. I also used two small bolts to fasten it to the seat as the provided Velcro did not stick well to the carbon fiber. The same bolts hold a bottle cage on the back of the seat. Now it is perfect. Expensive, but perfect.

Velokraft has since plumped out the pad but the leaf spring design seems unchanged.
Here are pics of both:

[Trsnrtr]

Thanks for the info. I'd probably have to shorten one too as the top of my VK seat is just below the top of my neck. In fact, if the seat was a little longer or my neck a little shorter, I wouldn't need a neck rest. :)

[BlazingPedals]

The difference between 'Shermer's Neck' and 'lowracer neck' is that the head will naturally fall forward, until the chin is on the chest. It won't naturally fall the other way. I didn't mean to imply that a neck rest is wasted weight, I was merely saying that I don't need one for the riding that I do, and by extension not everyone will find one necessary. I wouldn't have a hope in the world of supporting 400 pounds with my neck, even for an instant; so I think JCR's calculations are at least a bit off.

[BentBob]

I own a Fujin SL and use the Baron headrest. It's comfortable, light and allows me to relax into my ride.
Bob

[Mars]

I own a Fujin SL and use the Baron headrest. It's comfortable, light and allows me to relax into my ride.
Bob

Fujin SL... what a nice bike!

[SteveHP]

I have a Condor and mounted a headrest right when I bought the bike. In my opinion, this is a near-essential part of my bike, especially on the longer trips I make. Only on rougher surfaces it isn't comfortable due to the resonance.

[atombikes]

I wouldn't have a hope in the world of supporting 400 pounds with my neck, even for an instant; so I think JCR's calculations are at least a bit off.
It appears he combined a force calculation with weight.

If your head weighs 20lb, and the distance from the "pivot" to the center of mass of your head is 10 inches, then the moment is approx. 200 lb-inches (~16 lb-ft). Assuming gravity and hitting a bump that would exert a 2G force, then the resultant force would be 400 lb-inches, or ~ 33 lb-ft.

Still, it's alot of weight.

I saw a show on Discovery Channel about RAAM, and there was a DF guy that they had to support his head from behind with some sort of fiberglass pole rigged to the seat? Maybe it's the same guy JCR was referencing?

[STEEKER]

I own a Fujin SL and use the Baron headrest. It's comfortable, light and allows me to relax into my ride.
Bob
I have a challange Hurricane now and was wondering if your could link me to a picture of your headrest and a picture of how you mounted it please and thank you

[recliner]

I ride an HP Velotechnik Grasshopper, and recently purchased the headrest they make for it. I think the speed machine and the grasshopper have the same seat, anyway, it already has the threaded inserts you need, and the headrest comes with the hardware you need, very easy to install. I'd recommend trying that headrest first before retrofitting something else. I find it's comfortable and it has improved my ride enjoyment very much, less neck tension is very relaxing, takes a little getting used to but totally worth it.:)