General Cycling Discussion - Unfriendly cyclists

I saw this article (http://www.bicycling.com/cda/article/0,1596,2902-144-101,00.html) at Bicycling.com and thought about the thread a couple of months ago about unfriendly cyclists (unsuccessfully tried to find the thread).

I don't understand it. I automatically assume a fellow cyclist is a friend I haven't met yet. If I'm not trying to avert some about-to-happen disaster, I always wave and smile, even if I don't stop and socialize.

I know the feeling. I've said hi or waved several times and been ignored. Now, I usually look at an oncoming rider and if they look over at me then I either wave or nod. If they are close enough, I'll say hi. If they won't even look over at me, then I just ignore them. If they say hi first or nod first then I always reply with a wave or a nod and/or smile.

The majority of ppl that ignore you are the lone riders in my experience. For me, I'd say about 25% will wave, say hi, or smile back at you, but I don't keep track really.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

PBW

I wave or nod to everyone i meet if i get a wave or nod back cool if not, too bad for them. I just dont worry about it
catfish

from the Bicycling article:

The distinguished adventure photographer Galen Rowell wrote an essay about this; he called it "The Hello Factor," published in "Galen Rowell's Vision," still the best book I've read on photography. Basically, Rowell's point was that our joy in interacting with other humans is inversely proportional to our density. On a remote peak, we'll gladly stop and chat with a complete stranger, because we're the only ones around. On a crowded yak-route road loop in a city famous for cycling, we won't even nod, because it's just another cyclist. Sad, but true.

this is so true - both in the US and Europe.

For me, I'm a lone rider as well and don't initiate waving at other cyclists. Well, if they chat up with me, I'll just chat with them in a friendly manner. I don't think many people appreciate such stuff as a nod or a wave.

I too, am a loner, I do like to get a wave or smile from other cyclist. I would also stop and help any cyclist I happen to come up on that needs help, I hope all cyclist feel the same.

Hey - let's start all those nodding and waving threads from a few months back. They were fun.:D

Here's my approach.
If I pass another cyclist or even a pedestrian, I will raise the four fingers on my left hand as a sort of subdued wave, and I will say good morning. If they ignore it, so be it, maybe they didn't see/hear it. If they give me the "stinkeye" that the author referred to, I will close 3 of the 4 fingers briefly, and then move on. Thier problem, not mine. I find that, here in the relatively unfriendly South Florida area where I ride, the response is about 50/50. Half will respond positively, half will either not respond or flash the disapproving glance.

ChipR

Originally posted by roadbuzz
I saw this article (http://www.bicycling.com/cda/article/0,1596,2902-144-101,00.html) at Bicycling.com and thought about the thread a couple of months ago about unfriendly cyclists (unsuccessfully tried to find the thread).

I don't understand it. I automatically assume a fellow cyclist is a friend I haven't met yet. If I'm not trying to avert some about-to-happen disaster, I always wave and smile, even if I don't stop and socialize.

My experience has been somewhat different. On the road, I'm always riding alone, and it's the exception to EVER see another rider. When I do, I always say hello and wave. The other rider generally reciprocates, but not always.

Now, on the single-track, there are a few more riders - but still not many. I may run into one group or one other rider on a typical ride. We always @ least share a friendly greeting, but usually we stop and have a chat.

There does seem to be a difference between road riders and mountain bikers - @ least in my area. The off-road demographic seems to be more of the friendly/granola type, while the road riders seem to be more of a yuppie/unsocial type.

Yup - it's a huge generalization, but that's been my experience! :)

I just feel odd saying hello or talking to another cyclist on the road, that I don't know. I can't really explain why. I will wave to everyone that comes the other way. I think I feel awkward because I wouldn't want to interrupt anything. (Except this one guy who had the same bike as me!).

I remember the thread here. It was the "non-waving snob" thread.

I wave and say hello to cyclists, kids on roller blades, pedestrians, and folks watering their lawns. Some respond, some don't. That's just the way it goes.

regards
Dan

My problem is I'm very shy and taciturn, so, I'm never one to make the first move. Please don't take it personally. If someone is kind to me then I may be able to muster a (barely perceptible) smile and a subdued finger/hand lift.

I certainly fit the lone rider stereotype. There's no hatred of anyone else involved though I just like being by myself.

Once, while commuting to work, I signaled a right turn with my left arm (bent at the elbow, hand up). Another cyclist coming the opposite direction "waved back." Nice that he was friendly, a little scary that he didn't know the hand signal...

I always give a nod or the wave of a few fingers and when close enough, a greeting. Generally, I pay absolutely no attention to whether I am acknowledged. I'm out for the ride only, not a meeting.

The distinguished adventure photographer Galen Rowell wrote an essay about this; he called it "The Hello Factor," published in "Galen Rowell's Vision," still the best book I've read on photography. Basically, Rowell's point was that our joy in interacting with other humans is inversely proportional to our density. On a remote peak, we'll gladly stop and chat with a complete stranger, because we're the only ones around. On a crowded yak-route road loop in a city famous for cycling, we won't even nod, because it's just another cyclist. Sad, but true.

I agree with Nathank, with probably 16 million cyclists its easier to play "just another cyclist"
And believe me, not every cyclist is your friend, there are some @$$H*LE$ out there!(indeed mostly the Yuppie type) :D

But we all ride bikes :beer:

I look at it like this, back in the 70's and on into the early 80's if you drove a Corvett you were part of a family that owned this great sports car and every one that owned one would give a nod or wave at another driver in a Vet. I look at cycling the same way. We are participating in a sport and every one who does is part of this great family of cyclist. A nod or wave is just indicating, in my mind, that you are recognizing what a great sport it is and how lucky we are to be able to participate in. No need for conversation. You don't even have to smile. Just an acknowlagement showing respect to other cyclist(granted there are those cyclist I would love to shove a stick through their spokes but they are not cyclist, just A**HOLE wannabes but that is another thread).
Especialy in mtbing, we need to stick together other wise all are trails will be closed and we have to become, dare I say, RODIES :p or "Outlaw bikers".
Why don't we just call our selfs Mountain Deamons and just go rip it up:D .

Slainte:beer:

I've had lots of friendly encounters with other cyclists. Practically everyone going the other direction waves or says hello. The few who do not usually seem to be pushing themselves so hard they risk losing breath or concentration if they try to say hello or wave.

I never say hello or wave or nod,
or any of that friendly crap. I'm not your
friend, get over it.
I hate all other cyclists, I'm a yuppie
roadie snob and I'd prefer if all you
mountain bike types would just stay on
yer hills and keep off my roads.
And while I'm at it stay the hell off the
multi use paths. I aim for babies in prams,
kids on rollerblades and fitness walkers.
BTW my bike cost more than the GNP of
most small African countries.

There, don't you all feel better now?

:roflmao:
Marty

Hmmm, I ride down the road on my single and wave at another rider. About 3/4 wave back. If they don't wave or nod no big deal.

But we take out the tandem and almost everyone waves back.

And women almost always smile at tandems...

Yes, I'm a loner biker too. I usually have friendly encounters, on both road and mountain bike trails. However, at times on the road, I frequently don't get wave backs from the more serious roadies. I once got into a heated argument on a mnt bike trail. The guy was upset because I didn't hear him coming behind me.

I don't let these things spoil my ride though.:beer:

I usually don't wave to rollerbladers, or the people that think it's ok to have a 10-foot dog leash.

Max cannont understand why cyclists don't like him chasing their ankle. He just wants to be friendly!

HMMM. My attachment wouldn't work

Originally posted by Annie
HMMM. My attachment wouldn't work

hmmmm. Not gonna touch that line.

HA HA! Dirty ol'Man

I almost always wave. I find that most wave back, unless they're sort of focused and concentrating, or descending a hill (understandable). And some cyclists are unfriendly and snotty, but most are definitely not. The friendliest, I find, are older men, I mean older than 20somethings. They always wave and even chat. I find that many women are not terribly friendly, but some are definitely glad to see other chicks out on the road. Young men and very serious competitive types are often kind of unfriendly, but mountain bikers and crossers are very friendly and I always wave at them.

I think a lot of cyclists need to lighten up. I just wonder how many roadies there are who have no idea that some of the mtbers are also roadies and visa verca.
When I ride my road bike I get a lot of static from mtbers. Then when Im on my mt bike I get about the same amount of crap from the roadies... but with a bit of snobish ****e mixed in.

I guess this is the same type of war as it is between the snowboarders and skiiers. It just doesnt make any sense whatsoever.

:fight:

I have no idea what happened but this post was supposed to go under the "unfriendly cyclists"
Sorry.

As a person that is predominantly a "roadie", I rarely encounter MTB'ers unless they are doing something like the following:

1) Poking along at 2 mph on the MUT, 3 abreast (these are mostly "recreational MTB'ers, on ***-mart MTB's)
2) Trying to suck my wheel when I'm riding on the road/MUT
or,
3) Riding in an unsafe manner while they are tearing along thrugh the meadows in my local park (where they are not allowed)

Perhaps this may explain why many roadies have a negative view of MTB'ers???

And, when I'm riding my MTB down one of the semi-improved trails, I find that there is a lot of attitude from those riding $1500+ bikes agaist anybody riding a cheaper unit, such as my full-fendered Peugeot (complete with folding wire basket on the rack). In short, there is no shortage of attitude from either group. Lets move on, here, and evolve-OK?

We're all so "friendly" that we know we're better than people who don't wave.

And they're the snobs. :rolleyes:

roadbuzz, This might be the thread that you tried to find : "snooty road cyclists vs. nice mountain biker" http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?threadid=14935

There does appear at times to be a lot of testiness between variously identified groups on this forum. Usually, though not always, it still results in good conversation.

It wouldn't hurt to be reminded that there are those, like me, who do both MTB and Road and also regularly operate a motor vehicle to include an SUV.

I tend to ignore the impolite generalizations I see here and concentrate instead on the good information.

Originally posted by dirtbikedude
We are participating in a sport and every one who does is part of this great family of cyclist. A nod or wave is just indicating, in my mind, that you are recognizing what a great sport it is and how lucky we are to be able to participate in. No need for conversation. You don't even have to smile. Just an acknowlagement showing respect to other cyclist...


Well put.

I find that every so often, people in cars with bikes on the roof or on a rear rack will wave, and I usually give a wave when I'm in my car (with my bike on the roof) and encounter a cyclist.

I always smile and wave at passing cyclists when I'm riding. If they don't respond, I usually mutter a descriptive expletive to myself about the person to make me feel better :D and just move on. I do realize that there are serious cyclists out there who are concentrating on their effort. But even just a nod...

Originally posted by roadbuzz
I automatically assume a fellow cyclist is a friend I haven't met yet. If I'm not trying to avert some about-to-happen disaster, I always wave and smile, even if I don't stop and socialize.
Me too, Buzz.

I have to admit, though, there are times I'd rather keep my hands where they are and stay focused. Perhaps others understand this.

In the final analysis, I believe we should all have a universal sign of brotherhood we display as a way of saying, "WHAZZZUP!"

If I see someone on a bike, wheelchair, slow moving motorcycle or a pedestrian i'll say, quite simply, "howdy", even the darn bag boys that watch me as I ride by the grocery store. I find that people don't always respond to the hi or hello but they usually respond to howdy in a positive way. Try it out, tell me your opinion. Whether or not they'll admit it, everyone likes a friendly teenager on a bike.

You got a good point devster, saying something a bit out of the norm like Howdy will get more attention, and make someone a bit more likely to atleast smile.

I like the idea of having a unique greeting for cyclists. How about "Lady! Lady!" like Jerry lewis.

Other suggestions:

Waaazaaaap! (someone suggested that already, i like it)

Yo, Homies!

When I first started riding I would wave or say hi to every cyclist I met. But I quit doing that because more than 80% of the time, I would get ignored. I will aknowledge a wave or hi but I seldom initiate it now. I just got tired of feeling stupid after being ignored.

I think friendliness has a lot to do with the area you are in.On the rail-to-trail path around here most say hello or wave and it gets old with weekend traffic.On the Vadalabene Bike Trail by Alton Il your bike could be on fire and woundn't get much more than a glace.Both great rides though.I just go with the flow and just ride.

I don't know why this is even an issue. I encounter plenty of cyclists of both the friendly and unfriendly kind, and to be totally honest, I really couldn't care less. I'll chat with the friendly ones, and just treat the others with the contempt they deserve.

So what do you do when you overtake another cyclist, it's kinda awkward to get beside them, say hello, keep your head turned to wait for an acknowledgement and maybe slow up, then take off again. It almost seems kinda arrogant, like I'm saying "I'm so good I can stop for a chat and still drag you off". I'd rather sneak past and maybe say a quick g'day if we meet at the next set of lights.

this is a tough one. i realize that if you take the subset of cyclists out of the general population that there would be the same % of jerks. But like a good neighbor, what do i expect from fellow cyclists? i know it is unrealistic to expect decorum in every social situation. so i expect my neighbors to keep their property well kept and not be a nuisance. sometimes in the bigger cities that is far better than ever engaging them in conversation. not much to ask, right?

well, out on the road it is unreasonable to expect that all of a sudden these same people will get out of their living rooms, out of their cars, etc and all of a sudden become friendly because they happen to be rolling along on 2 wheels.

i only expect these cyclists to follow the rules of the road so drivers will have a positive view of cyclists to make it ultimately safer for me out there.

BTW: i rarely encounter this. i always flash the peace sign (when possible) so fellow cyclists will know that it is me they see all the time. i almost always get an acknowledgement.

It all depends. Some people are shy or friendly or obliviuos or snotty and so on. I have noticed cyclists do have a snotty attitude. Mind you, they would probably be snotty doing anything. As a male, I find some female cyclists are friendlier than others. Some are either paranoid or think they are trendsetters by riding a bike. Go figure and who cares. Have a good day.

My only beef with other cyclists are those who suffer from "Elitism".

It is especially a problem here in Atlanta at Stone mountain park. I have run across so many of these rotten jerks at the park that I have been tempted to just stop trying to socialize myself.

Most of the ones I have met with such a disposition are not even very impressive riders. Moderately fast at best.

Although I do remember one afternoon at the park when I had one of these guys pass me. I was determined to keep pace with him and I did so without drafting until we came upon one of the steeper climbs and he dropped me. The funny part about this particular encounter was that he kept looking back at me and lifting his pace the whole time. The absolute best part was that I was pulling a baby trailer with my 1 year old daughter behind me.
That in mind I certainly did not mind that I could not keep him on the hill.

There's on fellow who I occasionally meet on the train. He never speaks to me or even acknowleges my presence, though our bikes often sit next to each other.

I'm baffled.

Maybe it has something to do with my overzealous attempt at conversation upon our first meeting: when I found out he was a sidewalk cyclist, I tried to open his horizons by mentioning I found the road to be quite satisfactory.

:(

We are still brothers, though!

I always give a nod and / or raised fingers (more than one) to fellow cyclists. I get about a 50% return rate on the road. I thought it was because I was on an MTB. Apparently not by what I am seeing here. I have found that offroad the percentage is higher. But speeds are generally lower, so that may be part of it.

I always stop or call out to a broken down cyclist. I have given away my spare tube more than once, stopped to fix broken chains (You don't carry a chain tool???), etc.

I was in New Zealand and fell HARD on a descent. I blew out about 6 spokes, wrecked my front brake, bent my rear rim, and thought for a few minutes that I had broken my arm. Two guys rode right past me as I was laying on the ground in a heap. A couple of hikers stopped to help me a few minutes later.

C'mon. We ALL need to do a little better. I don't want to marry you. Just nod.

i wave when i'm out on a lonely country backroad and there aren't that many cyclists around.

but when i'm in fairmount park where you pass a cyclist every 5 seconds, it becomes a bit impractical to wave to everyone you see

There's a tradition among Ventana mountain bike owners that when they meet another Ventana owner on a trail or at the trail head they yell out Ole'! Ole' is the Ventana battle cry, adopted from the name of a Mexican restaurant located near Ventana's fabrication shop in Rancho Cordova, CA (near Sacramento).

As for other cyclists, if you feel like waving go ahead and wave. If they don't wave back no big deal, but please keep on waving if only because you feel like it -- what's the worst that anyone could think... damn, there's another one of those foolish, well adjusted, happy cyclists.

Originally posted by Avalanche325
C'mon. We ALL need to do a little better. I don't want to marry you. Just nod.

Do better? At what?

Look, if another cyclist does or does not acknowledge me, I couldn't care less. People are often off in their own thoughts or whatever, I'm certainly not going to read anything into other cyclists acknowledging me or not.

Originally posted by jatkins679
Do better? At what?

Look, if another cyclist does or does not acknowledge me, I couldn't care less. People are often off in their own thoughts or whatever, I'm certainly not going to read anything into other cyclists acknowledging me or not.

Yeah, but if I see someone laying on the ground injured, I'll generally offer my assistance. Even if I know nothing about first-aid, I might be able to offer them some comfort for a while if nothing else.

Originally posted by Chris L
Yeah, but if I see someone laying on the ground injured, I'll generally offer my assistance. Even if I know nothing about first-aid, I might be able to offer them some comfort for a while if nothing else.

No question there: if you ever see someone who's been injured or potentially injured, you should stop and render aid if it hasn't been done yet. That comes down to plain old empathy: you'd want someone, anyone (even a stranger) to save your life or limb if you needed it. Or if it was a loved one, you wouldn't want to hear that he/she died while people just went about their business and ignored him/her.

But nodding or waving to another cyclist? I just don't see how the comment about 'doing better' regarding that makes any sense. The expectation that someone acknowledges some sort of kinship that you might feel but you have no idea the other party does or doesn't is just kind of strange, IMHO.

I mean do people should do what they want. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect an acknowledgement... or to even give any meaningful thought as to why someone might not return the gesture.