Living Car Free - how much extra do you pay in rent to be car free?

This past fall, I did a co-op (internship) in New York. I was given free housing up in the hudson valley, where the company was located. I worked directly for them for about 2 months, and then they gave me the opportunity to be subcontracted to the port authority. I'm open to new experiences, so I went ahead and said sure, I'd do it. It meant a 150 mile round-trip commute to jersey city from the hudson valley, which sucked, but I got compensated with 10 extra dollars per hour.

I drove that commute, thinking it would suck a lot, and it did. however, I noticed that alot of the full-time guys that worked at the port had commutes similar to mine, and they weren't getting the free housing i was! I asked why, and they said that in just about every case, it is cheaper to buy a beater honda (rice burner was the term most used) and commute 75 miles each way and pay cheaper rent than it is to live in the city.

It got me thinking about living car-free. I think that in order for it to be somewhat convient to live car-free, I'd have to live in an area that is a city. however, property is way way expensive in NY city, as it is I'm sure in other big cities; chicago, LA, etc. I'm thinking that it would be cheaper to live somewhere else and drive everywhere than it would be to live in the city and bike commute. you'd probably end up with a nicer place, too.

I realize that money isnt the only reasons that you people in this forum live car free, but money is a fact of life, and I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter.

Depends on the city. I pay alot less cause I live downtown, apartments downtown are inexpensive here. Knowing what I know now after being car free for several years, Id pay as much as 40% more than normal to be free of the car, in many cases you still come out ahead. When your car payment/upkeep/insurance/fuel costs more than your rent its a no brainer type decision. In the case of NYC, my cousin who's filthy rich has a good saying to describe it, you either like where you live, or you like your commute. In other cities its not too hard to often like both, as long as living in a city doesnt bother you. Personally Id much rather live in the city downtown than in the burbs in a McHouse somewhere.

Certainly you're not the only one pondering this. I think this is essentially what the idea of suburbia is born out of. Millions of people commute into cities and live in houses in the suburb because of supposedly cheaper lifestyles and supposedly higher quality of life. If I just look around me in the Bay Area, I can't confirm this. Of course, 'quality of life' is subjective. But my coworkers sit long hours in their cars on congested freeways, live in houses that are very expensive (not as expensive as a house in SF would be, but the Bay Area in general is very expensive).

I pay way less rent than they pay mortgage (granted, for a much smaller apartment, but I don't want a large place anyway) and live right downtown SF with all the things to do right around me.

I know.. I suck. I'm just waiting for one of the house owners now to point out that I am stupid, because my coworkers in 30 years will end up owning their house and ha! they will be much better off than me. But the fact is that I do not want to live or even own a house somewhere 70 miles from downtown, with the mall being the only place to go to, no possibility of being car free. I might just as well slash my wrists right away then.

I do not know who really pays more or less. I never look at it... to me there's no other way than to be car free in a city.

My rent is only 200 dollars, but I have a 19.5 KM commute there, and 12 k back(cause then I can take the train.)It sucks in winter, but then I usually take the bus anyways. :)

the cumulative savings of riding bikes instead of motor transit for a decade was equivalent to the down payment on our house in downtown san francisco. and at that point, we rented our parking spaces out to our car-dependent neighbors for $250/mo. after the kid, when the mortgage got too hot for us, we sold that house and bought in portland, the most bike-friendly large city in the US. we have no mortgage now.

how much extra did we pay to be car free? whatever it may have been, it has been the best investment of our lives.

Nada ... I own ... and where I live, being car-free makes owning that much cheaper.

An underground heated parking stall is included with each bedroom of the condo and we can rent the stall(s) to other residents or businesses in the building. I have been renting my stall to one of the businesses in the building for more than 3 years at a rate of $200/mo which more than pays for my property taxes.

:)

Six months ago, I lived in a satellite/suburb of St Louis, and paid $242.50 a month in rent (half of a two-bedroom), plus about $50-100 for utilities. I now live in a small town in central Colorado, and pay $460 for rent and utilities. I didn't move to become car-free, but I'm glad it happened.

So I pay roughly $150/month more, although I didn't do it specifically to be able to be car-free. (There were other reasons for my move.) A quick look at my transaction register from the first half of last year shows I'm saving at least $350 every month by not having to pay insurance, gas, and maintanence on a car.

Of course this doesn't really strictly relate to city vs suburb living, but I thought my experience might interest you as well.

I live in downtown Seattle, just a few blocks from my workplace, and it definitely costs more in rent than I would pay if I lived 50 miles away and commuted. There are quite a few communities I could move to and still be car-free, since there is a good transit system here. But then I would have to spend several hours a day commuting, be it in a car, bus, train, or ferry. As far as I am concerned, the time spent commuting is utterly wasted. As I age, my rapidly shrinking future seems more and more precious and I don't want to spend what's left of it crawling along on a freeway !

Car free in suburan areas isnt too bad assuming you work somewhere close to where you live. Almost all the places I need to go are within 10 miles, the biggest problem is that public transit is absolutely terrible, so if you need to go somewhere outside your comfortable riding range or carry something big you are pretty screwed.

It got me thinking about living car-free. I think that in order for it to be somewhat convient to live car-free, I'd have to live in an area that is a city. however, property is way way expensive in NY city, as it is I'm sure in other big cities; chicago, LA, etc. I'm thinking that it would be cheaper to live somewhere else and drive everywhere than it would be to live in the city and bike commute. you'd probably end up with a nicer place, too.

I realize that money isnt the only reasons that you people in this forum live car free, but money is a fact of life, and I just wanted to hear some opinions on the matter.


The farther you live from work/centres of interest, the more careful you have to be with location. When we bough our house, mortgage + condo fee + taxes was less than a small 2 bedroom apartment at the edges of downtown. We picked a spot with good bus service, close to a transit station - we are 25-30 minutes away from downtown by bus, about the same by bike, and (from what friends report) about 20-25 minutes by car. The ability of a bike or bus to by-pass city traffic is a great asset! Once the light rail system goes in, we will be less than 10 minutes away from downtown.

It all depends on what city you plan to live in, and what locations you are willing to look at. Certainly both should be considered carefully before making any decisions, I know many people who have moved from one city to another for various quality of life issues, including being car-free and/or access to transit.

Rent-wise I think I take the cake so far... I used to pay $1250 / month for a studio in San Francisco... now I pay $925 for a 1 BR in a "worse" neighborhood (even though it's way better for me -- lot more cool young people, bars, and close to BART). When I lived in Palo Alto I paid $1235 for a 1 BR. I think places like Berkeley would be a bit cheaper, but I probably wouldn't get anything much cheaper than my current apartment.

I love San Francisco ;)

Being carfree doesn't affect my living location at all here. Everywhere is close to ay train station. And if it wasn't, I would ride my bike to the station and then put my bike on the train. Heck, I do that sometimes anyway.

My rent is $307/month regardless of whether I have a car.`

My partner and I live in a neighborhood with lots of interesting stuff going on all the time, easy access to center city, and pretty good rent. We might well have found a place for $100/month cheaper (that's only $50 each per month) if we were willing to travel further and sacrifice some of the convenience of our neighborhood. Also, if we decided to come into center city by car more often, we could easily spend $50 a month on parking.

I don't rent but I've never heard of receiving a discount on rent because the tenant owns a car. What landlord does that? Why? Some places charge extra for a parking space.

now I pay $925 for a 1 BR in a "worse" neighborhood

You may take the cake for reducing your rent, but you sure reduced it from a high rate in the first place. :) I'm amazed that some people are willing to pay so much.

Apartments in downtown cost about the same as they do in the suburbs in Minneapolis. Only, I can find a studio or efficiency here more easily, and it ends up costing even less.

Here in Seattle, it's not really an issue. Living in a decent place downtown is expensive (at least $800/month), but there are some nice neighborhoods just outside downtown that are much more affordable ($500+/month). I live in a 1-bdr in the eastlake neighborhood, about 3 miles NE of downtown. My rent is $550/month - it's not a palace in any sense, but clean, relatively quiet, and safe. Every place I need to get to on a regular basis is within about 5 miles of where I live, so I can bike everywhere. Also, the bus service here is excellent, so if the weather is bad, that's another option.

So to answer you question, I really don't pay anything extra in rent to live car free. If I were willing to live well outside the city (say 15+ miles), I would probably still pay around $500/month, so it's really not worth it.

We pay about $1300 for a two bedroom, two bathroom house in Uptown, just a few miles from Downtown. That might seem alot, but its a bargain considering that its actually a detached house with our own small front yard, and being so close to the centre city, and right in the middle of a hip neighborhood.

You may take the cake for reducing your rent, but you sure reduced it from a high rate in the first place. :) I'm amazed that some people are willing to pay so much.

Comparisons only get you so far anyway... I also make more here than I would somewhere else in the same position. I am absolutely willing to pay this much to live in a great city!!

all boils down to how much your time/enjoyment is worth. saving $300/month but simultaneously losing 2 hours a day (60 hours/month, works out to $5/hr - this assuming that you're actually saving $300 once you put car costs, gas, insurance, etc. into the equation, which seems likely only in the most expensive of locals like nyc and sf). anyway, even at that point, i'd still be willing to pay $5/hr for each of those 2 hours to spend them reading, cycling, cooking, etc instead of stuck in my car during rush hour.

My rent is $307/month regardless of whether I have a car.`

Good Lord!

I've have not seen this kind of rent in the New York Metro for 30 years!

I drove that commute, thinking it would suck a lot, and it did. however, I noticed that alot of the full-time guys that worked at the port had commutes similar to mine, and they weren't getting the free housing i was! I asked why, and they said that in just about every case, it is cheaper to buy a beater honda (rice burner was the term most used) and commute 75 miles each way and pay cheaper rent than it is to live in the city.


Where in the burbs are you going to live cheaper? Seriously. Have you seen the prices of nice apartments in the burbs in the New York Metro. The price of housing is the same 15 miles from the city as it is 50 miles from the city. There are very few apartments that offer great savings out in the burbs. Everyone wants $800 - 1200 dollars for a 1 bedroom apartment. You might be able to get 2 bedrooms but they'll be small. This is why you are seeing a rebirth in cities because housing in the burbs has become just as expensive. I'm seeing areas in New York City that were slums for decades become redeveloped in the past 5 years.

If you commute 75 miles a day on a beater Honda, I can assure you, you'll be at the repair shop handing over $500-900 hundred dollars on the weekends. You didn't mention how much of your time will be wasted on the road or the stress. Bottom line, there are no cheap solutions.

I pay just under $450 for a nice 1 bedroom with a 2.5 mile commute. I have all the services I need within a few blocks. My boss, who used to be Governor, lives 5 blocks from me. So it's not a bad neighborhood.

I searched carefully for both a short commute and inexpensive housing.

Good Lord!

I've have not seen this kind of rent in the New York Metro for 30 years!

Yeah. Cheapest rent I've ever heard of too. The place kind of sucks, but you can't beat the price!
:D

I pay just under $450 for a nice 1 bedroom with a 2.5 mile commute. I have all the services I need within a few blocks. My boss, who used to be Governor, lives 5 blocks from me. So it's not a bad neighborhood.

I searched carefully for both a short commute and inexpensive housing.
I thought most former governors of Arkansas aimed higher than being your boss! :)

the cumulative savings of riding bikes instead of motor transit for a decade was equivalent to the down payment on our house in downtown san francisco. and at that point, we rented our parking spaces out to our car-dependent neighbors for $250/mo. after the kid, when the mortgage got too hot for us, we sold that house and bought in portland, the most bike-friendly large city in the US. we have no mortgage now.

how much extra did we pay to be car free? whatever it may have been, it has been the best investment of our lives.


You either drive expensive cars or live in cheap houses.
My ten year cost of vehicle wouldn't buy me diddly squat, but i drive cheap.
Since you didn't actually own a car, you can say you saved 100,000 just for car purchase alone.

Since you didn't actually own a car, you can say you saved 100,000 just for car purchase alone.
"Save" even more if you don't buy a Ferrari or MB 600 limo. And probably make a down payment on the Hearst Castle if it is a 0% down mortgage.