Classic & Vintage - I need a freewheel expert!

I posted this the other day in the mechanics forum, but got little response. I have replaced the 6 spd. Suntour freewheel on my old Puch with a 7 spd. Sunrace freewheel. The bike doesn't have an integral derailler hanger, so there is a little nut on the back side that holds the adapter claw in place. That little nut rubs against the lock ring on the Sunrace freewheel, keeping the freewheel from turning. The old Suntour Perfect freewheel doesn't have a lock ring, so it wasn't a problem.

I added a small washer to the axle to give enough clearance, but now the derailler can't go over far enough to change into the largest cog. I have tried both the original Suntour 7GT and the NOS Suntour Cyclone MKII that I planned on using, neither one will work.

After all of that, now for the questions! If I were to buy a new Sunrace or Shimano 6 spd freewheel (both seem to use the lock ring), what are the odds I would still have the same problem with the adapter claw nut? My main reason for changing out the freewheel was to get different gear ratios (no need for a 14-32 here in flat Florida). Would I be better off hunting down the gears that I need and trying to swap cogs on my old Suntour freewheel? Lastly, if I go with the last idea, are Suntour Perfect cogs the same as the Winner, Winner Pro, etc. . . ?

Has anyone else ever encountered this problem? Everything I have read makes going from a 6 spd to a 7 spd sound like a no brainer. Thanks for your help!

Simplest thing to do is measure the width of your old 6-speed freewheel first, then measure your other candidates. If they're wider you'll have the same problem.

Honestly though, living in flat country why do you want another cog in back?

I'll look at my 6speed Shimano freewheel and put it up next to my 7speed that's currently on the bike and check the differences for you tonight. When I mounted the 7speed freewheel a few weeks ago I do remember adjusting the derailleur to swing further outwards. I don't have any experience with Suntour derailleurs so can't help there. I'm currently using an old Shimano Golden Arrow derailleur on my 7speed bike, along with the same style hanger you have on the Puch. Will investigate and take photos for you tonight!

If going from 6 to 7 speed chances are the 7 speed is wider requireing tha much more of an axle spacer (i.e. the washer should be the same as the difference between the 6 and 7 speed. the large spacer can also be changed for a 7 speed one I believe. Now your 7 speed freewheel is slightly out of range of your derailleur that is adjusted for 6-speed. You have to adjust you low limit screw by turning it out so that you derailleur moves in further. Also now your wheel is no longer running in the center, it should be re-dished for the 7 speed freewheel. I bought a bike with a 7-speed that should have been a 6 and the wheel has not been dished. I had trouble adjusting the brake and then realised the person who switched it never re-dished it so I did it and viola runs nicely now. Hope I am not telling you things you already know. BTW, I use a 1981 cyclone RD with a 7-speed freewheel with no trouble.

Thanks guys. mswantek - Don't really need the extra gear, but I did want the 13-24 gear ratio that was readily available on the Sunrace 7 spd. The 6 spd freewheels seem to start at 14 for some reason. I'd be happy if I could dump the 28-32 combo from the old freewheel and add a 13 and 15 at the other end. That would give me the same 13-24 gear range.

cuda2k - The deraillers get almost far enough over, you can hear it rubbing on the big cog, it just can't get over far enough to climb aboard. It is so frustrating because it seems like it only needs another millimeter or so to make the change (probably the thickness of that washer!). By the way, I have enjoyed reading about your rebuilds. I am doing the Puch more for sentimental reasons as I have a new Giant OCR3 for my daily rides. I took the stem shifters off and replaced them with a set of Suntour Cyclone DT shifters that I got NIB off of Ebay. New alloy wheels (cheap ones!), Nitto alloy bars and lots of polishing. I bought the bike new in 1985, so I know it is in good shape still. I'll use it for slower rides with the family.

cyclotoine - I have the low adjuster pretty much removed from the derailler, can't go any further. Hadn't thought of the dishing though as I thought 6 spd and 7 spd were so close in width it wouldn't matter. Shows how little I know!

I posted this the other day in the mechanics forum, but got little response. I have replaced the 6 spd. Suntour freewheel on my old Puch with a 7 spd. Sunrace freewheel. The bike doesn't have an integral derailler hanger, so there is a little nut on the back side that holds the adapter claw in place. That little nut rubs against the lock ring on the Sunrace freewheel, keeping the freewheel from turning. The old Suntour Perfect freewheel doesn't have a lock ring, so it wasn't a problem.

I added a small washer to the axle to give enough clearance, but now the derailler can't go over far enough to change into the largest cog. I have tried both the original Suntour 7GT and the NOS Suntour Cyclone MKII that I planned on using, neither one will work.


My Sachs freewheels (7 spd) all use the cog as the screw-on lock, so no exterior ring. I think Nashbar freewheels are the same? DuraAce freewheels are flush. The current Stock of Shimano HG 7 spd freewheels have a small lockring, check out any pic of them. They are commonly available at all the LBS in our area since they sell well to MTB owners - cog rangechoice is a bit limited.
I believe that Regina America freewheels also have no outer lockring, but not positive on that.
good luck.
If the washer works (now, I know this seems obvious, but you don't mention, so I will...) you did adjust the limit screw further out and in spite of that the RD won't step out far enough, right? try a thinner washer?
Dremel the RD where the Parallelogram cage hits the RD body at the limit screw area, thereby allowing the assembly to move outwards a scoosch more?
grind down the lockring? ... Lockring? Lockring? we don need no STEENKIN LOCKRINGS!

Another possiblity is that your derailluer hanger is bent or otherwise not alligned right. If you have the adjustments set to their max swing and you're not able to get that derailleur quite far enough that might be the problem. If it was slightly out of whack with the 6speed the smaller swing range wouldn't have made it as apparent as it is now with the 7speed. Brainstorming at this point.

I didn't redish my wheel when I went from 6 to 7speed, though I also didn't have to add a spacer to the drive side to get the clearance I needed. Good luck with the Puch, and be sure to post some photos of the final product. :)

Thanks everyone for your help. I just re-measured the width of the 2 freewheels. The 6 spd Suntour measures 1 1/16" (27mm) and the Sunrace measures about 1 1/4" (32mm), so there is more of a difference than I thought. I still can't figure out why if 7 spd bikes were generally built with 126 spacing, why 126 doesn't work in this application.

A couple of you have mentioned dishing the wheel. If the wheel was re-dished, that would move the whole hub and freewheel one way or the other, correct? Can I assume that the cone nuts and locknuts would move along with the hub? If so, would that help the situation?

cyclezen-Thanks for the freewheel info. I went with the Sunrace from aebike.com because it was cheaper and they had some other things I wanted as well. I thought about ordering the Nashbar 6 spd freewheel, but then thought about whether it had a lock ring or not, thus why I started this thread. I didn't want to order it and then pay shipping back if it also didn't work. I did try to get a thinner washer and will look some more. I have a vast collection of hardware and found one washer that was thinner, but the hole was to small. So, I got out my drill and started to drill it out, only to have the drill bit catch in the hole and twist the washer into a banana shaped washer! :mad: As this is a rural area, we don't have a good selection of bike shops. There is one in Ocala that may have something, so I'll have to give them a call. Actually, the wheels both need to be trued a little, so maybe I should just dump the whole thing in their lap and see if they can make it work!

Thanks again!

Indeed your 7 speed freewheel is bigger. There should be a spacer between the cone and the locknut which is mostly hidden by the freewheel. that spacer should be a couple centimeters or so long, you need to change that spacer or add washers that amount to the 5mm difference you have. All dishing does is move the rim closer to the drive side and more off center of the hub but center of the bike. A 5 mm difference is a lot and if your derailleur isn't working maybe you should just go back to a 6... Or let the shop do it, I'm sure they can.

Just aside - it sounds like you may have an ultra-6 suntour freewheel - they were made to replace 5-speed freewheels directly and were much narrower than the normal six. The difference between a normal 6 and a 7 isn't great...

Hmmm. I was able to make my Suntour V-Luxe cover all 7 cogs of a Nashbar freewheel when I tried this on my Takara. The conversion was a bit too much of a compromise, though. I had to leave the little nut boatdesigner speaks of, off the adapter. Made wheel changing a nuisance. I moved a washer from left side to the drive side, but this moved the wheel off center. I still think I can make this conversion work but maybe I'm just a cock-eyed optimist.

Luker, I was wondering the same thing. Could my Suntour be an Ultra-6? I assumed it was a normal 6 as the dropouts are 126. Does anyone know the width of an Ultra-6? This would be important even if I ordered a new 6 spd freewheel. I'll have to do some more research before I order any more parts.

Takara14, it is good to know I am not the first! :D I keep thinking there is something stupid/easy that I am missing. If I had a welder I'd be tempted to tack weld the adapter claw in place and leave the nut off (that would probably offend my design sensibilities though). It would probably work then. I must be an optimist as well.

If you have an untra-6 freewheel, you should be able to place it next to a 7-speed freewheel, and the cogs should pretty much line up with one another. If you have a standard 6-speed freewheel and place it next to a 7-speed, the total width of the 7-speed should exceed that of the 6-speed by no more than a mm or two.

I have never had a problem making any SunTour or Campag. rear derailleur shift across any 6- or 7-speed freewheel, although I did have to file the stops on a Schwinn TwinStik to allow the OEM Huret Allvit to cover 6 speeds.

By the way, I have seen 5-speed freewheels on 126mm rear axles; Schwinn did this alot in the 1970s, often with overshift and undershift guards.

BINGO! John E reminded me that I had done this earlier and the cogs lined up (I don't know enough for any red flags to have stopped me then)! I just pulled the new wheel with the new freewheel and compared it to the old again and the cogs do line up. I even had my wife look at it to make sure I wasn't seeing things. So I have an Ultra-6 freewheel on a 126 spaced frame. I guess I have to Ebay the 7 spd and see if I can't E-bay an Ultra-6. I don't think anyone makes those any longer. Yellow Jersey and Harris have some, but their prices are a little steep for my budget right now.

Thanks for all of your help!!!

I've seen Ultra-6's come and go on Ebay fairly regularly, more often in the spring/summer months though. Another option would be to step backwards into a 5speed if you can find one with your desired gear range. As you said, you don't particularly need a lot of gears in your neck of the woods and a 14-23(ish) 5speed would work if the ultra-6's are too much of an expense at the moment.

While there are a number of Suntour Ultra-6's on the Bay, I was wondering if anyone else ever made an Ultra spaced 6 speed? If so, what would the model name be so I could check them out as well? Thanks!

Maillard did, but not sold in a big way, when they do come up for auction they go for bigger dollars than the Suntour, they also came as a kit with a large selection of cogs to allow setting up of many custom ratios.

BINGO! John E reminded me that I had done this earlier and the cogs lined up (I don't know enough for any red flags to have stopped me then)! I just pulled the new wheel with the new freewheel and compared it to the old again and the cogs do line up. I even had my wife look at it to make sure I wasn't seeing things. So I have an Ultra-6 freewheel on a 126 spaced frame. I guess I have to Ebay the 7 spd and see if I can't E-bay an Ultra-6. I don't think anyone makes those any longer. Yellow Jersey and Harris have some, but their prices are a little steep for my budget right now.
Thanks for all of your help!!!

The 7 should still work fine on a 126 rear. I guess I'm having a hard time imagining how the derailleur hanger looks on the dropout and therefore why it won't crank out far enough to engage the 1st cog...
got any digital pics of the rear? would be educational

6 spd ultra - what cog range are you looking to achieve? I have a couple ultra6 in the mixed bin - I can check what they might be - prolly gonna be some variation on straight blocks...

Unless I am mistaken his setup looks very much like this:

http://thecuda.com/md_P7291018.JPG

(Best photo I could come up with on short notice, too dang cold and wet out the last few days to get any better of my setup). I too can't figure out if the rear is spread to ~126 to fit the normal 7speed he has why the derailleur doesn't pivot far enough given that it should be a model that others have said does have the range needed. Going to look through my photo collection the PC and see if I have any other images that may help...

Ok, this is my Barracuda Mk.I before I ran the rear derailleur cable or the chain on it. The freewheel pictured is a normal 6speed and the rear spread is 126mm. It has an adapter claw hanger as our OP's Puch does.

http://thecuda.com/Cuda_rear.jpg

In the photo you can barely see the inside plate that holds the claw in place when the wheel is out (sliver thing just on the inside of the blue dropout). It should only stick out from the dropout by 1-2mm on the inside of the dropout (at least mine does). If his original freewheel was a Suntour Super-6 then I can see where threading on the new 7speed freewheel would overhang the hub axel enough to hit the claw bolt on the inside. Sounds to me like he needs a longer spacer (as mentioned by someone above) to extend the axel. This will only work if there are enough threads on the axel to put the lock nuts back on with the longer spacer. Otherwise, the LBS may have a longer axel that you can fit to your current hub/wheel.

Lastly: good luck!

Thanks guys! It looks just like Cuda's set-up - I don't understand why it won't work either. I'll try to get some pictures of it tomorrow and figure out how to put them up. I didn't have time to play with it this weekend, son had a soccer tourney out of town.

Boatdesigner - suggestion for you. Unscrew the cable from the derailleur and let it move to its max outboard position. Using the derailleur screws, adjust it so it's inline with the first cog (as pictured). Then try to move the derailleur as far inwards as you can. The chain will be a bit of a pain to deal with, but you should be able to do it with a bit of maniuplation of the chain. See how far off you are from being in line with your last cog. While holding it here, play with the derailleur adjustment screw to see if you can feel it adjusting one direction or another. Playing with it may help figure out why it's not moving any farther for you. Photos of your setup may help, especially the high/low set screws from inside the cage. :)

If you have problems posting the photos - shoot me an email or PM.

I got some pictures showing what it looks like. Something odd though, last night when I put the bike back together so I could take some pictures, I didn't slide the wheel back as far in the drop-outs. Surprisingly, the wheel will now turn without the washer/spacer, although clearance between the lock ring and the adapter claw nut is practically invisible.
http://www.smithmarinedesign.com/images/puch/PuchRD_Top.jpg
I also was able to get it to shift into the large cog while in the small chainring, although that brief moment of joy was shortlived as now it won't do it again! In the photo below you can see that the RD is adjusted as far inboard as it will go.
http://www.smithmarinedesign.com/images/puch/PuchRD_Bottom.jpg
Here is another shot showing it from the side:
http://www.smithmarinedesign.com/images/puch/PuchRD_Side.jpg
Now there is an additional problem, without the spacer, the chain rubs against the adapter claw nut. So, I still need to gain a little room on the outboard side while still being able to shift into the largest cog. The RD seems to go over far enough to shift into the large cog (it is only an 1/8" from the spokes at the most), but the chain just clicks along on the edge of the cog without shifting. Could this actually be a chainline issue?

A couple of you have mentioned a spacer that should have been on the axle, I don't remember seeing one and can't get at it now as I don't have a freewheel tool for it. I have to get the wheels trued, so I'll see if the LBS can finesse this thing into working. By the way, I double checked the drop-out spacing and it is 125mm, so you'd think it would work. So close but yet so far away!

Wow, that is a very very close between that nut and the freewheel.

The spacer would be hidden by the freewheel now that it's in place. It goes between the inner and outter locknuts typically and fills the gap needed to account for the width of the freewheel.

And it does look like you've got the H limit screw about as far out as possible. Do you think it's possible to get it out any farther or possible remove it / file the end down to allow a bit more range?

Beyond that - I'm out of suggestions. Hopefully someone else with more experience with SunTour may have an idea.

Thanks Cuda. The H limit screw is actually out to the point where it no longer sticks through the derailler body. I could just take it out, but I left it in for now so I wouldn't accidentally lose it (like the little cap nut from the front Dia Compe caliper that I can't find GRRRR!). The derailler does look like it goes beyond the inboard cog, but for some reason can't catch on the side and lift up. This is what made me think it may be a chainline problem. I guess I'll turn it over to a pro! If they can't make it work, I'll hunt up an Ultra-6, maybe a 13-24 or 13-21?

Chainline is possible. As is a bent derailleur or hanger. In the photos above you had the chain in the small front chain ring? I ask as the derailleur is fairly stretched in the photos. Perhaps chain length be a factor?

May I ask, with H limit screw set all the way out to where it doesn't touch - what IS limiting any additional movement?

- loves a good challenge. :D

I doubt the hanger is bent as I have owned the bike since new and it has never been crashed. In fact, I can't remember ever laying it down on the ground for any reason, I probably have, but it was extremely rare. The derailler was bought as NOS off Ebay, can't tell if is bent or not.

As for the derailler stop, if you look at the picture showing the bottom of the derailler, there is an L shaped part on the derailler body that moves to contact the limit screw, this is actually hitting the derailler body where the limit screws mount. It really is a clever design, with the adjustment screws front and center and the cable actually going through the body. That big allen head fastener in the face is actually what clamps the cable in. The designer in me likes the look of it. :) That is also why I am using the old skool spring type cable housings. They look really pretty and I figured the short length of it won't create that much extra friction over contemporary cable housing. I actually tried both and couldn't feel the difference. It also seemed to give a better cable line as it isn't quite as stiff, so at the forward cable stop it doesn't have a hard spot.

The chain is a new Sram PC-48. I used the big cog-big chainring method and only had to take one full link out after I installed the quick connect. I can't remember if the chain was on the large chainring in those pictures or not, but it is a GT cage which is what SunTour called their long cages if I am not mistaken. I like the fact that SunTour cages were open, so you can take the chain off the derailler without breaking it. That has made the trouble shooting I am doing now a lot easier. Too bad they aren't still in the game, they had some great products.

agreeds boat designer. Cuda2k I had the same thought about chain length when I saw the pic of the derailleur. I also had this thought. A cyclone derailleur is higher end and was meant to mount on a drop out in most cases. This adapter for the derailleur is probably 2mm thick which moves the derailleur 2mm more away from the cogs than if it were on a bike where the derailleur mount was part of the drop-out. maybe that is why it won't swing far enough in???

I got some pictures showing what it looks like. Something odd though, last night when I put the bike back together so I could take some pictures, I didn't slide the wheel back as far in the drop-outs. Surprisingly, the wheel will now turn without the washer/spacer, although clearance between the lock ring and the adapter claw nut is practically invisible.
http://www.smithmarinedesign.com/images/puch/PuchRD_Top.jpg
I also was able to get it to shift into the large cog while in the small chainring, although that brief moment of joy was shortlived as now it won't do it again! In the photo below you can see that the RD is adjusted as far inboard as it will go.

Not uncommon issues for these with the add-on derailleur hanger. Your's seems a problem of additive small issues. The hanger actually adds outboard distance to the position of the RD and the extra 2mm makes a huge difference (as compared to dropouts with integrated hangers). Add in a dash of chainline, customize with your 'washer' on the outside, season with RD angle and voila! no shifty to large cog!

I suggest to first fix the large cog shift problem. remove the spacer/washer you put between the axles and dropout. Above where the cable goes into the RD there is an adjustment screw, back it out until the RD parallelogram is 'parallel' to the chainstay (even a little higher is OK). Right now the body is angled down a bit more than I would angle. Bringing it up a touch will allow the body to move the pulley assembly further under the cogs, and will also put the upper pulley closer to the cog and allow it to catch the chain better/sooner. This should make the shift to large cog happen. If chainline is not perfect, then at some point put attention to that as a longterm improvement...
This assumes you've been doing all this using the small ring to large cog - not cross-chaining large-to-large...


http://www.smithmarinedesign.com/images/puch/PuchRD_Bottom.jpg
Here is another shot showing it from the side:
http://www.smithmarinedesign.com/images/puch/PuchRD_Side.jpg
Now there is an additional problem, without the spacer, the chain rubs against the adapter claw nut. So, I still need to gain a little room on the outboard side while still being able to shift into the largest cog. The RD seems to go over far enough to shift into the large cog (it is only an 1/8" from the spokes at the most), but the chain just clicks along on the edge of the cog without shifting. Could this actually be a chainline issue?
A couple of you have mentioned a spacer that should have been on the axle, I don't remember seeing one and can't get at it now as I don't have a freewheel tool for it. I have to get the wheels trued, so I'll see if the LBS can finesse this thing into working. By the way, I double checked the drop-out spacing and it is 125mm, so you'd think it would work. So close but yet so far away!

No spacer you can see, as stated, its under the freewheel and inside the lockring for that side.
shifting to smal cog and rubbing - I see the tight tolerance.
I would (and have done before) 'dremel' the freewheel lockring so the outside edge is dished down, making the lockring tapered and allowing it to clear the RD hanger ring better. That 'mod', along with adjusting the outboard limit screw should get the RD outboard enough to shift onto the smallest cog.
hope this helps

Thanks for the input Cyclezen. After I read your post I went and checked the angle adjustment screw and it is out as far as it will go. The tab that the screw goes through is riding on the claw. I have an old set of directions from Suntour that came with the shifters and it also mentioned having the derailler body close to parallel with the chainstays. If I have to at some point, maybe I can grind a little off the claw to allow the derailler to angle under a bit more.

In my original post in the mechanics forum, I actually asked about whether the adapter claw was the problem. The Cyclone was one of Suntour's better models and would have been used on a better class of frame than my Ishiwata Mangy framed Puch. These almost assuredly would have had an integral hanger. By the way, the washer was removed in the photos I posted.

As for the chain, do you think it is too long? I purposely left it on the long side figuring I could always take some out easier than adding links back in. I also did a little experiment by putting the old rim with the Ultra-6 back on the bike to make sure it would shift all the way. It went right onto the innermost cog with no problem. I was a little surprised as it has a 32 cog and the chain was shortened for a 24 cog. The best and easiest solution probably will be to find an Ultra-6 with the right ratios and swap it for the Sunrace 7 spd. I guess I would have to have the rear wheel dished slightly to bring the inner cog over to where it was on my old wheels. This probably wouldn't be too expensive as the wheel needs a little straightening anyway.

I'm betting that either the size of the top cog (32 vs 24) made the cog a lot closer to the derailleurs jockey wheel - which helped scoot it on up to the ring (basically what cyclezen was trying to fix with the B-limit screw adjustment). That - or the super-6's top cog actually sits further out than the 7speeds - closer to the max range of the derailleur swing.

btw: were those photos and tests done with the chain in the big or little front chain ring as we were wondering about earlier today?

Dishing moves the Rim left or right to get it on the centerline of the bike. Needed if you add spacer on one side of the wheel's axel but not the other (move the hub left, bring rim back right a bit to compensate).

you derailleur hanger look a little short but if you can find one suitable I would mark a couple lines on it with magic marker then put it in a vice and grab some vice grips and bend it in then bend it out again so it is actually parallel to the drop outs, might be a simple solution. you could tweak it a bit once you get it back on the bike to make sure it is alligned.

If I may put one little suggestion in here, regarding shifting to the large cog:

Do yourself a favor and switch to another derailer with a few extra millimeters of side-travel. You'll never get that Suntour to reach without jerry-rigging something that will not look too pretty.

Take care,

-Kurt

Simplest thing to do is measure the width of your old 6-speed freewheel first, then measure your other candidates. If they're wider you'll have the same problem.

Honestly though, living in flat country why do you want another cog in back?

My thoughts exactly! Why not install a single speed cog in back? With a chain tensioner you could still have two speeds (by shifting the front derailler), and on flatland that would suffice.

Sorry bikemeister, don't have much interest in single speed. We have rolling hills here, so I do use some gears. I find that on my Giant OCR3 I use the 12-19 cogs in the back along with the 42 and 52 rings up front, the 30 never gets used. The Puch has a 52-40 in the front, so I was trying to get gearing similar to my main bike so it wouldn't be such a dramatic change from one to the other. I will probably put the old freewheel on the new wheel and run it that way while I look for an Ultra-6 in the 13-21/24 range. The main thing I don't like with the old freewheel is it goes from 14-32, with big jumps between gears. I found some on Ebay, but they are in the $30+ range. I may also consider cuda's suggestion and pick up a 5 speed, they seem to be a little cheaper.

I did put the old wheel back on the bike to see how it shifted. It worked great, so all is not lost! This thing just wasn't meant to be a 7 spd I guess. As I use CAD in my daily work, I would design my own hanger that had an offset built in to line it up with the drop-out, then the 7 spd would work. Unfortunately, I don't have any friends who are machinists!

Kurt, you are probably right and I don't want it to look cobbled together. That's why I'd rather go back to the Ultra-6 and have it look correct.

Thanks again for all your help!

I had an epiphany this afternoon (yeah, I know, I should have had it days ago). It dawned on me that I already owned a nice shiny new 13-21 ultra spaced 6 spd freewheel. The bike shifts fine on the first 6 cogs, so all I have to do is ignore the 24 tooth cog! The bike looks fine, shifts fine and if I don't tell anyone, well other than a few thousand BF members, no one will know the difference. It saves me the cost of selling the Sunrace freewheel at a loss on Ebay, buying a new Ultra-6 for triple what the Sunrace cost, and having the wheel re-dished for the Ultra-6. Seems like a no brainer to me, but I have never claimed to have an excess of brains to start with (explaining why I am in the boat business). So, when I have the wheels trued up, I'll have the mechanic put a spacer in the drive side of the rear wheel to make sure the chain clears the nut on the adapter claw. Then all I have to do is adjust the deraillers and finish the brakes and bar tape.

I can put the money I save towards clipless pedals for the Giant (the Giant's pedals will move to the Puch, saving nearly 3/4 lb. of weight). This will give me a bike with regular pedals for those times when I don't want to walk like a duck in the funny looking bike shoes. Thanks again for all your help!

That is brilliant. And so logical that no wonder none of us thought of it already.

I knew you'd come up with an answer, and thats as good as any I've heard.

What type of Clipless are you thinking of going to? I'm running dual sided SPDs on both bikes. I have a pair of hard road shoes that I duck walk in, and a pair of mtb shoes with recessed cleats. I can walk just fine in those - and the cleat is far enough up in there that I don't scratch the tile work in the house or patio. LOOK/SPD-SL have a larger base, but for my uses SPDs work great. You can pick up a pair of Shimano M520's on ebay for ~$30 to start with.

Thanks for the shoe recommendation. I was thinking of some cheapo Look knock-offs, but wasn't sure. I may go to a shop tomorrow when I visit the "big" city (Ocala! :D ) and check out the different shoes in person. They are big into Specialized though, so I don't think they'll have any Shimano. I can go to the shop where I bought my Giant down in Brooksville (1 hr. South), he sells Shimano. I need to look at the road vs. mtn. shoes in person. I may go with the spd style once I know more about how they work.

Talk to a couple shops and do some searches here on BF's about the different clipless pedal types. If you have any questions you can also shoot me a PM. I've been doing a fair bit of research lately as I was deciding on what pedals to buy or switch to. I'll be happy to lend any help I can.

I hate starting new threads when I have a question on a particular subject so that's why I'm using this one. I have a lot of Suntour 5 speed Pro-Compe freewheels lying around the house and want to take some of the cogs off to rebuild some Pro-Compe 6 speed freewheels for some bikes I'm working on. Are the cogs interchangeable? I don't want to trade some of my stuff to get 6 speed freewheels. Thanks Guys.