Bicycle Mechanics - Opinions about LBS service departments wanted

I am a service manager for a retail bicycle store. As I read peoples posts I see a lot of frustration with how people's local bike shops handle repairs. In an effort to improve my service department I'd like to get peoples opinions/suggestions on what they like or dislike about LBS repair shops(no shop names please). I realize that what I am asking for will include negative comments but my hope is that it can be done in a constructive way so that this thread isn't a negative "shop bashing" thread. Hopefully for every problem or dislike people will offer a suggestion for how to make it better. Thanks in advance.
Pete

I guess I will start it off.

Being treated like the customer is important is the main thing.

I also don't want to have to leave my bike for a day or two for something that is going to take 10 minutes of the mechanics time. Perhaps a creative queueing process... Do at least one short job between each long job.

I had to leave my bike for about 36 hours for a tune-up (basically a cable adjustment and quick bike check and lube)

I once had to leave my bike over-night for a warrantee related tire change... and then the tire wasn't changed, so when I brought it back and pointed this out, I got the tire changed in about 10 minutes.

EDIT: Another idea... if you have multiple mechanics, dedicate one of them to drop whatever long job he/she is doing or assisting on to take care of the easy/quick stuff for a customer that comes in... Remember, we are in an age when people are liking waiting less and less.

I am a service manager for a retail bicycle store. As I read peoples posts I see a lot of frustration with how people's local bike shops handle repairs. In an effort to improve my service department I'd like to get peoples opinions/suggestions on what they like or dislike about LBS repair shops(no shop names please). I realize that what I am asking for will include negative comments but my hope is that it can be done in a constructive way so that this thread isn't a negative "shop bashing" thread. Hopefully for every problem or dislike people will offer a suggestion for how to make it better. Thanks in advance.
Pete

One topic that gets rehashed again and again is whether it is appropriate to show up at your LBS with parts you have purchased. One great shop that has got this figured out is Wheelworks in Belmont, MA. Their policy concerning this is plainly stated on their web site - they just charge an additional 20% surcharge (on the labor) when you bring in your own parts. I think this works well for both sides. The shop does not lose money (from the profit they would have made on the parts) and there is incentive to buy the parts from them. But, if you want to bring in your own parts their is no moral dilemma. They are ok with that.

Here are their service policies:

http://wheelworks.com/repair.htm

Intelligent policies and a willingness to work to help customers solve their problems are big steps in the right direction to any service department. Wheelworks has clearly listened to their customers and removed an uncomfortable roadblock to good business.

Sorry I disregarded the "no names" request, but I think that using Wheelworks as a good example should not be a problem. I'm sure they would welcome this kind of press.

Another great policy from another Boston area shop is from Cycle Loft in Burlington. They give automatic priority repairs to anyone who is a bicycle commuter.

Good for you for trying to make things better.

Years ago I managed a real busy shop in Santa Barbara. One thing we did was give on-the-spot flat repair service. We did not repair tubes, just R&R, but our guys would stop their other repairs to get flats done and out the door.

Of course, my guys could R&R a tube & check for crap in the tire in about 45 seconds...

One topic that gets rehashed again and again is whether it is appropriate to show up at your LBS with parts you have purchased. One great shop that has got this figured out is Wheelworks in Belmont, MA. Their policy concerning this is plainly stated on their web site - they just charge an additional 20% surcharge (on the labor) when you bring in your own parts. I think this works well for both sides. The shop does not lose money (from the profit they would have made on the parts) and there is incentive to buy the parts from them. But, if you want to bring in your own parts their is no moral dilemma. They are ok with that.

Here are their service policies:

http://wheelworks.com/repair.htm

Intelligent policies and a willingness to work to help customers solve their problems are big steps in the right direction to any service department. Wheelworks has clearly listened to their customers and removed an uncomfortable roadblock to good business.

Sorry I disregarded the "no names" request, but I think that using Wheelworks as a good example should not be a problem. I'm sure they would welcome this kind of press.

20% surcharge is just a ripoff. On most parts over $100 there is not that much profit. Fortunately I do 100% of my own work.

good: making sure a part can't be repaired before trying to sell me a new one.

letting me borrow tools while in the shop (when it's really slow). obviously you have to be a regular to get this kind of deal.

trying to educate people a little bit more about their bikes each time they bring it in for repairs.

bad: not letting me borrow any tools at all (even tire irons) because "we don't want to liable for any mistakes you make with our tools."

treating a tire change the same as a tune-up. "we have a two week wait for all repairs right now." (happened to a severely mechanically challenged friend).

**@#XX#@#**! bk

removed an uncomfortable roadblock to good business.

Sorry I disregarded the "no names" request, but I think that using Wheelworks as a good example should not be a problem.

That's an interesting thought. Are there any other uncomfortable roadblocks that anyone can think of?

I can't imagine anyone having a problem with people naming their shop when they are complimenting them so I agree with you there.

Fortunately I do 100% of my own work.

I think that people who can do alot of their own work are also the ones that can easily be frustrated by LBS service departments. One thing I want to do better is satisfy people who are mechanically savvy but need to come to an LBS for occasional service work.

good: making sure a part can't be repaired before trying to sell me a new one.

letting me borrow tools while in the shop (when it's really slow). obviously you have to be a regular to get this kind of deal.

trying to educate people a little bit more about their bikes each time they bring it in for repairs.

bad: not letting me borrow any tools at all (even tire irons) because "we don't want to liable for any mistakes you make with our tools."

treating a tire change the same as a tune-up. "we have a two week wait for all repairs right now." (happened to a severely mechanically challenged friend).


Triage repairs a bit more... also anotheer part to point one make sure you have the part that is needed or can get it in a resonable time frame.

I have had on shop take more then 2 weeks to get a part.... mail order is quicker.

I do most of my own work, but I occassionally have an LBS service my bike. I think that it's nice when the shop retains any replaced parts, and shows them to me with a brief description of why they needed to be replaced. It really doesn't take that much time, and it allows the customer to see where their money went, with their own eyes.

Not every customer is interested in seeing the replaced parts, but simply offering the little show and tell session conveys a positive message to the customer.

My girlfriend doesn't know anything about automotive mechanics, but she always appreciates it when her mechanic shows her the problem. It is the complete opposite of the male chauvanist attitude of "your little female brain wouldn't understand these greasy parts."

I want someone that will help me fast, when I'm about to check in my bike then a Mechanic can stop what they're doing for about 2 minutes and tell me what's going to be done and how they're going to do it, then I can learn.

Also, even if your website or paperwork says you'll do it, but don't deem it nessecary, tell the customer that. Tell them the positives and the negatives.

A shop told me they were going to resurface both my brakes, right now, I don't have a true Disc Brake.

...letting me borrow tools while in the shop (when it's really slow). obviously you have to be a regular to get this kind of deal...

Along these lines, another boston area shop has tools available for everyone. They are chained/cabled to a wall with a bit of space to work (no it's not a full set, nor are they that great of quality-but comes in handy from time to time). Obviously would depend on the space you happen to have available.

On borrowing regular shop tools: Have a standard policy, posted. Charge a reasonable fee. Fair to everyone.

On customer service:

Re-enforce to your staff the importance of customer service. I don't mean they're allways rite, but never-ever let them "rip" about some customer being a complete arse in front of other customers.

I'd guess that if you've some staff who are simply superb mechanicly, but lacking social skills to handle "difficult" customers-don't let them.

don't recommend service and parts i don't need. i'm getting a second opinion anyway so if you want me to commit to that repair appt ... don't tell me how sweet my bike is (it's not that great), then tell me i need a new headset.

i like the shops that walk me thru the repair. it makes me want to buy my tools there, trust the shop, maybe buy my next bike there. by teaching me the basic maint that i can do myself, i'm gonna bring in my advanced repair to your shop. i'm pretty loyal that way.

One of my local shops doesn't mind letting me come into the back room and look through their buckets and drawers of small parts when I need something weird and prefer to find a used one to a new one. They also are happy to crack loose freewheels now and then for free when I don't have the right remover. Being nice about the little stuff makes me want to come back there.

I'll make a quick post now and come back and edit or add a new one when I have a bit more time.

First - thumbs up on trying to make things smoother for all. :)

Second - luckily I've had top notch service from my LBS thus far. I really like the above posts about making sure a 2-5 minute job doesn't go 2+ days because of the wait. Asking and listening to the customer about when they would like it back vs when they can realistically get it back.

ok - I'm too tired to think of much else right now. Guess I haven't had any real bad experiences thus far to pull from.

I think that people who can do alot of their own work are also the ones that can easily be frustrated by LBS service departments. One thing I want to do better is satisfy people who are mechanically savvy but need to come to an LBS for occasional service work.
i don't trust people working on my stuff. i have had things damaged in the past. for a business, time is money. while my time is precious, i can do a better job because i am not rushed.

If someone has a question during when their bike is being repaired, have the mechanic come around the counter and actually show him what happened and how to fix it.

At a lbs, a few certain mechanics have tried to rip me off, if I had to guess because of my age. I'm a teenager, and I'm sure they though they could quote me a number they pulled out of their butt, and I wouldn't question it. Treat everyone fairly, even if they look like they would pay an absurd amount of money on something that shoudn't cost that much. $56 for 32 spokes and a 5 day wait, is absurd. Especially when I got to another lbs and pay $26 and wait a whopping 5 min.

I think it is important to be reasonable about an exchange. I went to an LBS and asked for a 10 speed chain. I paid no attention to it, but after mounting it on my bike, I realized immediately it wasn't a 10 speed chain but a chain for an old 10 speed bike (5 speed freewheel.) I viewed it as the service department's error since 10 speed chain is a very common modern term and asked to exchange it for the right chain. They could always use it on a customer repair job. They refused. I didn't argue about a $20 chain. I just left it there and never returned.

I think, if the service manager misunderstood what I wanted, he should have asked for a clarification. I think this is a pretty basic customer service issue.

On the positive side, I once took a frame to good bike shop for prep. Not only did they prep the frame properly as I had specified, they also drilled and tapped the horizontal dropouts and added adjusting screws. I had failed to specify that. They had a more comprehensive concept of frame prep than I did. When I mounted the rear wheel, I discovered the screws were already adjusted to center the wheel. The whole frame prep, face and chase BB, face head tube, cut crown race, was $60 including the work on the dropouts. I return there all the time.

I used to enjoy hiring bike posers as part-timers in shops I managed and seeing how fast their ideas of how a shop should be run changed. Keeping a bike two days for a 15-minute repair makes sense when there's a queue of 30 or 40 bikes already in the shop and the salespeople are bringing sold $3,000 bikes back to the mechanics to install $200 worth of accessories.

The policy in a couple of those shops is to fix flats and the equivalent on the spot and to charge a $5 rush fee for anyone with a lengthier repair who wants to jump to the head of the repair queue. It's amazing how many people who otherwise would have spent 10 minutes trying to charm or wheedle a quick repair out of the shop find that they can wait a couple of days after all. A rush charge for quick service is taken for granted in a lot of other businesses; why it's not standard practice in bike stores is a mystery.

20% surcharge is just a ripoff. On most parts over $100 there is not that much profit. Fortunately I do 100% of my own work.
A 20% surcharge to install parts bought elsewhere is a VERY reasonable rate and far better than I'd expect. The profit margin on parts is significantly higher than on complete bikes and most shops make the majority of their net income from parts and accessories.

I used to enjoy hiring bike posers as part-timers in shops I managed and seeing how fast their ideas of how a shop should be run changed. Keeping a bike two days for a 15-minute repair makes sense when there's a queue of 30 or 40 bikes already in the shop and the salespeople are bringing sold $3,000 bikes back to the mechanics to install $200 worth of accessories.

The policy in a couple of those shops is to fix flats and the equivalent on the spot and to charge a $5 rush fee for anyone with a lengthier repair who wants to jump to the head of the repair queue. It's amazing how many people who otherwise would have spent 10 minutes trying to charm or wheedle a quick repair out of the shop find that they can wait a couple of days after all. A rush charge for quick service is taken for granted in a lot of other businesses; why it's not standard practice in bike stores is a mystery.

You make a couple of good points. However, when you always have to strike the balance between the 'now' and the 'past' and 'future' customers. Sure, you want to ensure that the guy who just dropped $3000 on the new bike gets his $200 in accessories installed asap. However that $60 tune-up or $50 Headset replacement job you let set for 5 days - were those guys who routinely spent $200+ in your shop or was about to purchase a new bike. A rush fee on some jobs to get ahead of the pack is fine when you are swamped with a million jobs and have a long queue - but on flat repair? Give me a break. You'd be better served to stop, help the customer out - and most importantly try to help them gain the correct knowledge to do it themselves next time (and make sure they buy a spare tube!) The next flat they have there's a decent chance they can take care of it themselves. Saving the shop time to do the other repairs and chances are the customer will come back for patch kit / another tube / that $3000 bike.

I've done my share of working retail, though not in a LBS or in service so much. But none the less we'd get more than a few customers in with their old machines in hand when they had problems with it. I was the knowledgable guy in the department so I usually got stuck helping diagnose the problem. I probably lost a few sales, even some that would have gained me a commission or two. But a lot, and I do mean a LOT of the customers that I helped for 15-20mins with their 10 year old fax machine came back and asked about some very big ticket items because they trusted me, and thus the store.

20% surcharge is just a ripoff. On most parts over $100 there is not that much profit. Fortunately I do 100% of my own work.

How would you feel about an LBS giving %20 off installation on parts bought at the LBS and also just saying mail order parts welcome?

I think it is important to be reasonable about an exchange. I went to an LBS and asked for a 10 speed chain. I paid no attention to it, but after mounting it on my bike, I realized immediately it wasn't a 10 speed chain but a chain for an old 10 speed bike (5 speed freewheel.) I viewed it as the service department's error since 10 speed chain is a very common modern term and asked to exchange it for the right chain. They could always use it on a customer repair job. They refused. I didn't argue about a $20 chain. I just left it there and never returned.

I think, if the service manager misunderstood what I wanted, he should have asked for a clarification. I think this is a pretty basic customer service issue.

On the positive side, I once took a frame to good bike shop for prep. Not only did they prep the frame properly as I had specified, they also drilled and tapped the horizontal dropouts and added adjusting screws. I had failed to specify that. They had a more comprehensive concept of frame prep than I did. When I mounted the rear wheel, I discovered the screws were already adjusted to center the wheel. The whole frame prep, face and chase BB, face head tube, cut crown race, was $60 including the work on the dropouts. I return there all the time.

That is one great shop and should be supported all the way.

Try to make people feel welcome when coming in for service. Listen to what they say and have patience with the difficult ones. Make them feel respected, no mater what.
If you are extremely busy, just say hi when they come in and explain that you are with another customer and will be a minute. If there are a few others in front of them explain as nicely as possible, give them the option to come back later and still feel welcome.

Have a couple of loaner floor pumps in a place where a customer can top off his tires by himself if he knows how. If only a couple of pumps get broken or stolen a year, consider it a business expense.


When it is busy, there may be customers waiting in line for a small question that could be answered by a
big sign. For example.........

Tubes $4.oo - Installed $6.oo

Two floor pumps available for customers by the front door.

Minimum credit card sale $50.oo

Etc.....

I think that people who can do alot of their own work are also the ones that can easily be frustrated by LBS service departments. One thing I want to do better is satisfy people who are mechanically savvy but need to come to an LBS for occasional service work.

It's a two-way street. I know bikes; I have built frames, laced wheels, I frequently repair components that other people would discard, yet I don't swagger into a shop like I know everything. I respect their position as a professional.

My LBS (Zombies; Santa Monica, CA) is a pro-level roadie shop. The manager, Scott, is as nice and helpful as can be (knows his stuff, too!), so much so that I dropped off a six-pack of Red Stripe the other day to express my appreciation.

You'd be surprised how far a little respect (and Jamaican beer!) will get you.

ATTENTION TO DETAIL! A bike should never leave your care without being checked over, and at the very least, the customer being advised of what was found. Nothing chases my business away faster than noticing a professional hired for the job missed things obvious to this mediocre amatuer. I will tolerate arrogant people who are right. I will tolerate idiots who admit their faults. I simply cannot tolerate folks who are arrogant AND wrong. Put that on a sign in the employee side of the shop door.

A 20% surcharge to install parts bought elsewhere is a VERY reasonable rate and far better than I'd expect. The profit margin on parts is significantly higher than on complete bikes and most shops make the majority of their net income from parts and accessories.

I've worked in a shop (its been a while) and have seen wholesale and retail prices. Markup on a tube, brake cable, or other cheap item is about 400-500%.. $1.00 wholesale to $5.00 or $6.00 retail. Markup on higher priced items like suspension forks, is near 10-20%, and these are the items most likely to need shop installation. Most profit is made on small parts and labor. I guess I am out of touch with what people are willing to pay a mechanic to do because they can't. Pete, pay your mechanics well if they are good!

Also, I have found that every town (small town at least) has two types of shops. One with all the pro equipment and hot shot bikers, and the other is the more family oriented shop. Even though the pro shop may sell more of the things I am looking for, their attitude is so bad that I usually avoid them. When you go into these shops, they look down upon you unless you ride the best bike in the world, and its not like I ride a cheap bike. A repair job on a huffy is just as important as the repair on a high end bike.. just don't let the sales people stop the guy with the huffy before he gets to the service area.

If possible seperate the service from the sales(Which we don't do at our shop) Mechanics can get a lot more done with less chance of error, if they can work uninterupted. in most shops this will not happen due to space and employee requirements, but it is worth a shot.

Stocking every part for every repair would be nice. Reality has to step in tho. There are more than 120 FRONT derailleurs, so stocking them all is difficult $$ wise. Howver not stocking the little things is really frustrating for both mechanic and customer. Keeping on top of inventory so you don't run out of things like tubes and brake cables, helps keep everybody happy.

And, of course:
All parts and labor should be free. You should spend the "fortune" you are profiting in the shop on the development and construction of a time machine so the customers repair is ready as he walks in the door.

Thank you for this great thread. There's one suggestion I'd have especially for your younger male mechanics. Don't assume that just because the customer is a middle-aged woman, that she doesn't know anything about mechanical things. This has only happened to me a couple times, but on one occasion a young mechanic was visibly insulted when I politely corrected his false impression that grade 200 bearings were "even better" than grade 25. Other times, I have felt like I had to try very hard to communicate to the mechanic that I really did know and understand what I wanted done. Maybe it's not due to my gender, but I felt like it was. I guess this all comes under the category of respecting whoever it is that's asking for a part or describing a problem.

Thank you for this great thread. There's one suggestion I'd have especially for your younger male mechanics. Don't assume that just because the customer is a middle-aged woman, that she doesn't know anything about mechanical things. This has only happened to me a couple times, but on one occasion a young mechanic was visibly insulted when I politely corrected his false impression that grade 200 bearings were "even better" than grade 25. Other times, I have felt like I had to try very hard to communicate to the mechanic that I really did know and understand what I wanted done. Maybe it's not due to my gender, but I felt like it was. I guess this all comes under the category of respecting whoever it is that's asking for a part or describing a problem.

Mechanics assume that if you are paying them to do it, then you don't know how to do it. You should do your own work if you know how.

good: making sure a part can't be repaired before trying to sell me a new one.

letting me borrow tools while in the shop (when it's really slow). obviously you have to be a regular to get this kind of deal.

trying to educate people a little bit more about their bikes each time they bring it in for repairs.

bad: not letting me borrow any tools at all (even tire irons) because "we don't want to liable for any mistakes you make with our tools."

treating a tire change the same as a tune-up. "we have a two week wait for all repairs right now." (happened to a severely mechanically challenged friend).
Sounds reasonable but most commercial insurance policies prohibit anyone but employees from doing any kind of work. The shop could be sued and the insurance company could pay out a huge claim. Too many claims and the shop could be dropped. No insurance means no business.

Tim

Mechanics assume that if you are paying them to do it, then you don't know how to do it. You should do your own work if you know how.

With all due respect, that is another false assumption. I simply do not have the proper equipment for some procedures, such as pressing on a new fork crown race or removing an old fixed cup. I KNOW how to do it, I just don't have the equipment. And the other issue I mentioned was buying parts. For the work that I do MYSELF.

Here's why I never use an LBS for anything.

It's a fave scam of the LBSs in the area. You bring in your bike for a minor repair, the mechanic quotes you an unreasonable price for the repair (or tells you it's "impossible"), and then they try to sell you a new bike.

Happened to me way back, when I brought an old Peugeot in for repair. The mechanic actually laughed at me. I kept the bike, and learned mechanics my own bad self. The shop is gone, the bike's still riding (several times last week in fact).

A while back, I sent a friend to the "best" of the local shops for a repair, a simple bottom bracket replacement. The shop glanced at it, told him it would be 70$ to look at it further, and more to repair it. Then they showed him the new bikes, telling him he really needed to buy one. It was a thirty minute job; I know because I did it later for the cost of the new BB and a six of Sierra Nevada (which I didn't ask for, but came anyway). This was a college student who wouldn't have the $$ to buy a new bike, who just needed a repair to get his primary transport back on the road. The bike was servicable except for the BB.

This pisses me off no end. Every shop in town has tried this scam on someone I know, with the exception of our newish bike co-op. "Your bike is crap, here, let us kindly sell you a new one." It assumes the customer knows nothing, is gullible, and can easily be taken for $$$.

It pains me to live in a city this large (Metro area @ 3/4 million) and not have a decent LBS. I know there are decent shops... far, far away.

Never do this to your customers, is my advice.

One thing my LBS does is give away really small parts for free. I doubt this is practical for smaller shops, but if it is, it is a great way to get customers coming back.

As for loaning tools everybody should be aware that most tools in a lbs belong to the mechanics not the shop, or are so expensive the mechanics can't afford them. In the first case I think it is unfair to expect an mechanic to lend out the tools with which he or she makes a living to someone of unknown skills. In the second case, the tools might be worth too much to hand off to someone with unknown skills. SO if a shop refuses to lend tools, please understand it is for good reasons.

Make sure your mechanics KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
Make sure someone else checks to see the repair job was done correctly.
I paid a shop big $$ to do a full tune-up on my road bike.
I paid the shop for all new rubber and cables.
Imagine my horror when I went for the first ride and quickly discovered that the derailers and brakes were dangerously maladjusted.
I could go on about the crappy attitude of the mechanic but you get the idea.
I now make it a point to tell every cyclist I meet to avoid said shop.

Enjoy

I forgot about my most recent lbs experience. My wife bought her daughter a new bike for her birthday, a 20 inch single speed girls bike. When she brought it home I realized that there was no kickstand on it. So I went to the shop and the salesperson said, "oh no the new kids bikes don't come with a kickstand now". I told her we had bought a similar bike from the other shop in town, and it had a kickstand. then she says, "oh but the bikes with gears don't come with them". I said it was a single speed. Finally I had to buy a kickstand for $6, and they tried to tell me that they had to install it (for more $$) because it needed to be cut.. like I don't have a hacksaw. I cut and installed it myself, but this item should have been included. Also the brake wasn't adjusted properly. We paid twice as much for a bike because I won't buy one from xmart, but didn't really get any better service from this shop.

"like I don't have a hacksaw" You would be amazed at how many people don't even know that there is a saw just for cutting metal. Or own even a screwdriver and hammer.

We put kickstands on all the kids bikes, thru 24" wheel, that do not come with training wheels. Most people want them, so you might as well do it. I am surprised a single speed, that was not a real BMX, did not have one out of the box. What brand was it?

"like I don't have a hacksaw" You would be amazed at how many people don't even know that there is a saw just for cutting metal. Or own even a screwdriver and hammer.

We put kickstands on all the kids bikes, thru 24" wheel, that do not come with training wheels. Most people want them, so you might as well do it. I am surprised a single speed, that was not a real BMX, did not have one out of the box. What brand was it?

Its a raleigh, just a regular 20" single speed girls bike with tassles and everything. Its just a crappy shop, and the most annoying thing was this womans unrelenting denial that the bike should have come with one.

I also realize most people don't have hacksaws, I was just pissed.

Have a couple of loaner floor pumps in a place where a customer can top off his tires by himself if he knows how. If only a couple of pumps get broken or stolen a year, consider it a business expense.

That's a good point. One of my lbs's (on a very popular paved biking trail), at the entrance, has a few pumps, some tire irons, and an air compressor. It's realy nice to just pop in and top of your tires before heading out.

Also they have a water dispenser w/ cups which is nice after a ride.


If possible seperate the service from the sales(Which we don't do at our shop) Mechanics can get a lot more done with less chance of error, if they can work uninterupted. in most shops this will not happen due to space and employee requirements, but it is worth a shot.

That is an excellent point as well. My closest shop (satellite shop from their big shop), there is 4 people that work there, and any given day there is 3 people there. It kind of bites because they are the mechanics AND the the salesmen. And there is only 3 of them, so repairs take a looong time and if there is a lot of people there, you will have to wait a while.

At a different shop (the one mentioned above), the sales and the service it completely seperate. They have a sales counter and they have a service counter. If you want to buy something they ring it up at one counter, but if you need service done, they have a different a different counter (at the entrance to where all service is done, the actual "shop") and they take care of you there. The guy at the service desk has a stand and all the tools and if you have a question, he just pops the bike up in the stand and shows you what is up.
---
Also, try to make the shop as laid back as possible. I myslef am not a fan of the "high end" type of shops. i like shops that are inviting and feel like you are welcome there, not shops that after you buy something, you feel like you are forced to leave.

MattP.-"The guy at the service desk has a stand and all the tools and if you have a question, he just pops the bike up in the stand and shows you what is up."

I would love to have the space for this. It is good because you can quick check an issue and maybe turn the bike right around. I also would like it because the customer does not have to hold the bike the whole time you are writing them up. We end up just leaning them anywhere.

I worked as a mechanic in two different shops for a total of three years, so I know how to do my own work, and have most tools that I'll need to get the job done (with the exception of frame prep tools). The only reason I go to an LBS is for parts or clothing. I hate going, because it's nearly impossible to get someone to assist me. The staff looks at me, see that I'm not in "cyclist" shape, and moves on to the next customer. My wife gets treated the same way. The staff is usually very dismissive of our questions. And it doesn't matter which shop we go to, they all do it.

So make sure your staff treats everyone equally.

I worked as a mechanic in two different shops for a total of three years, so I know how to do my own work, and have most tools that I'll need to get the job done (with the exception of frame prep tools). The only reason I go to an LBS is for parts or clothing. I hate going, because it's nearly impossible to get someone to assist me. The staff looks at me, see that I'm not in "cyclist" shape, and moves on to the next customer. My wife gets treated the same way. The staff is usually very dismissive of our questions. And it doesn't matter which shop we go to, they all do it.

So make sure your staff treats everyone equally.


Part of me thinks that bike shops look down upon people with cheap bikes, but I think maybe they just think they are better than everyone. You have some nice bikes and you run into the same problem that someone with a huffy runs into.

Make certain that your mechanics treat every bike with care. I had a bad experience at one LBS while I was bike shopping. The salesman/mechanic (I'm unsure of his exact classification, because I never returned) whacked the top tube of a new $2,000 bike with the pedal wrench while he was installing the pedals fro my test ride, and didn't even acknowledge that he did it. I'm not even sure that he noticed he did it, but I surely did, and I can't imagine how he couldn't have noticed too. It made that terrible loud ringing sound, and chipped the paint down to the bare metal.

I wouldn't have had a problem if he simply acknowledged it and said that he would be applying some touch-up paint to the chip. The fact that he regarded it as nothing out of the ordinary turned me off forever.

I avoid LBS like the plague........

Mechanics assume that if you are paying them to do it, then you don't know how to do it. You should do your own work if you know how.

I've taken a few things in that I've either not had time to do, or wanted to be sure I had done right. There's a dfference between not knowing that you could do something or can do something and deciding to take it in to someone who's done it before. Headset replacement (or overhaul if with loose bearings) is one of these things that I've delt with before, but have delgated to the shop.

When I go in for repairs, I try to be up front about what I know about the problem with the bike (if there is one) and what I think needs to be done. I appricate when the service guys listen to what I have to say without interuption. I may not know it all, or have it right, but at least don't cut me off with your 'expert' advise. Then again - that goes with any position of customer service.

Oh - and one other suggestion - ensure that any verbal quotes you give are very clear and complete. I was in asking about a headset overhaul (see above) while I was in the neighborhood. I then asked how much it would be to replace the headset. Guy said the overhaul ran around X, and a new headset would be about Y. The problem was that Y was the price of the part - not with installation. Labor wasn't bad, and they did take the time to nicely wrap my computer wire around the cable housing after they removed the fork during the work. So even that worked out alright.

If possible seperate the service from the sales(Which we don't do at our shop) Mechanics can get a lot more done with less chance of error,



I know that I definately prefer to be isolated from everything while I do repairs, as do all of my mechanics. This is not the way our shop is though. Our repair areas are "fish bowl" style so that everything can be seen from the show floor. Almost no one likes having people look over their shoulder while they work, mechanic or otherwise. It can be stressful to be on display all the time and constant distraction will lead to errors.

Do people like repair shops that are visible so that you can watch the mechanics while they work? I know I like it when I can see the cooks making the food at restaurants. I would be hesistant to put the shop in the basement and out of sight. I think people are more comfortable being able to see their bike being worked on. I can see how it would be uncomfortable to bring a bike in for service and then have it wheeled off to some unseeable room to have the repair done.

I avoid LBS like the plague........
me too. costs too much

Pete - good question on location of the repair stands. My usual LBS is HUGE and their service area is also very big. They'e got 4 stands up front next to the service counter for fast repairs and some other work (no idea how they divide it) but I can also see a number of stands farther back if I look past the several isles of parts and bike racks of orders to be done / waiting for pick up. If I were to guess - major tear-downs happen in the back where it is easier to keep track of parts, tools, and stay more focused longer. Shorter jobs or checking over a problem with custmer happens up front. If my bike was going to be in the shop for 3 days for a major job I wouldn't mind sending it to the back where a mechanic could devote his attention to the job and do it well.