cell-talking cager gets arm removed during crash

[DataJunkie]

You know, you're absolutely right. We should move to ban humour as a coping mechanism and demand that everyone should engage in emotional attachment with everyone in the world, despite having no real connection with 99.999% of them. That would be the smart thing to do.


Or we should just ban ignorance. Bye bye seldom kill.

[Cycliste]

#3. For once I agree with ILTB.
Advocacy does not involve this type of behaviour. Sure driving with a cell can be considered bad. However, the punishment does not fit the so called crime and making light of it is just plain callous.

+4 some of the comments in this thread are sick and do not represent real advocates opinions, not to mention normal feelings'. Cell phone use while driving represent a grave danger to cyclists and public safety at large but these cynical comments are in no way helping with more awareness.

[snowgukonwheels]

A cell phone is a an I.Q. sucker in disguise. Put one next to your ear and watch your brain drop 50 points. Just ask the woman in that SUV ( S**ty Ugly Vehicle).

[sbhikes]

Sheesh. It's gallows humor. It's not like any of us believes it's actually funny.

We laugh because it sounds like something somebody made up, and because it's so gruesome.

If it was simply some lady had a terrible accident and was killed and a cell phone was involved, it wouldn't be funny at all. It's the severed arm clutching a phone that is funny. It's the stuff of slapstick comedy movies.

[DataJunkie]

A cell phone is a an I.Q. sucker in disguise. Put one next to your ear and watch your brain drop 50 points. Just ask the woman in that SUV ( S**ty Ugly Vehicle).

I will remember your comment the next time I am discussing highly technical processes with my manager via a cell phone.
As for SUV equating to what you said, to each his\her own. This vehicle type has its use. Personally, I will stick to our family car, a camry.

[khuon]

It was the notion that even a very severe injury couldn't get the driver to relinquish their grasp on the phone.

It was possibly the dismemberment that wouldn't allow the grasp to be relinquished. Think about it.

[The Seldom Kill]

It was possibly the dismemberment that wouldn't allow the grasp to be relinquished. Think about it.

And even though I didn't think about it, I included that bit about biology having a sense of irony.

Or we should just ban ignorance. Bye bye seldom kill.

Although I see we shouldn't ban your ignorance of psychology. As you wish.

[khuon]

Everything that happens has causality. What I find deplorable about some of the attitudes expressed in this thread is that they are done so through quick condemnation without knowing the full story. Yes, we can say that the woman's use of a cellphone while driving probably caused her to become distracted and lose control of her vehicle. Stepping over the line however would be calling her stupid and degrading her without knowing the full circumstances. It is a possibility that the woman was being stupid and yapping away about the movie she saw the night previous. But it is also a possibility that other things were playing out. We as the "audience" don't know everything that happened so it would be highly presumptious of us to make such scathing remarks against the woman's character and person at this time.

[spandexwarrior]

I will remember your comment the next time I am discussing highly technical processes with my manager via a cell phone.
As for SUV equating to what you said, to each his\her own. This vehicle type has its use. Personally, I will stick to our family car, a camry.
Yeah, I'm sure you can even discuss quantum physics on a phone. But all the studies show that the brain cannot be fully attentive to one's surroundings while doing it. That is fact. Just look up some of the old cell phone posts on this forum. I'm not gonna slap anyone's hands for feeling there was poetic justice in this. One forum member was killed by a cell phone driver. Any one of us could be killed by a cell phone driver. To compare this accident to a cyclist getting killed is childish. Cell phone drivers drive crazy or dangerously practically all the time. They are doing something stupid (that is why it is funny). Bicyclists however, are fully attentive to what is going on on the road. The risks a cyclist takes do not endanger other people. Cell phones and cars are a different matter.

[DataJunkie]

Although I see we shouldn't ban your ignorance of psychology. As you wish.

To be honest, how should a ETL specialist have much of an understanding of psychology? Then the question would be, how does one such as yourself have such a depth of knowledge and why do I fail to understand what bearing any of your comments have upon mine?
It is my opinion that the US is suffering a general lack of caring for each other amongst the common man\woman characterized by this thread. Yet, that equates to me wanting to ban humor (that does not exist in this thread IMHO). Finally, me calling you ignorant equates to a lack of knowledge realted to human pshycology on my part. WTH?
Granted that various persons have a differing view of humor. Still I find a distinct lack of humor in this subject. Maybe my liberal leaning attitudes have clouded my idea of humor. Then again maybe not.

[DataJunkie]

Yeah, I'm sure you can even discuss quantum physics on a phone. But all the studies show that the brain cannot be fully attentive to one's surroundings while doing it. That is fact. Just look up some of the old cell phone posts on this forum. I'm not gonna slap anyone's hands for feeling there was poetic justice in this. One forum member was killed by a cell phone driver. Any one of us could be killed by a cell phone driver. To compare this accident to a cyclist getting killed is childish. Cell phone drivers drive crazy or dangerously practically all the time. They are doing something stupid (that is why it is funny). Bicyclists however, are fully attentive to what is going on on the road. The risks a cyclist takes do not endanger other people. Cell phones and cars are a different matter.

Hold on mister. You took my generalized response to a general statement by another poster way out of context. In no way shape or form do I endorse using a cell phone while driving to discuss intricate matters. I OCCASIONALLY use a cell while rarely driving (I cycle about 98% of the time) for minor life issues. Ex: please pick up bread, I'm going to be late. Stuck in traffic, etc
A generalized statement that cell phones diminish an IQ is a load. Now if it had been stated while driving it diminshes your ability to concentrate, my answer would have been different.

As for risks cyclists take not ever endangering people, that is incorrect IMHO. On multiple occasions I have been witness to roadies coming very close to injuring peds. Rarely they actually suceed. True, it is nothing compared to what motorists on cells have done to cyclists. However, to state that cyclists are fully attentive and do not risk anyone else is incorrect IMHO.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Dude walks into the shot, puts one knee down and lowers his head to the cell phone:
"Can you hear me now?"
"Good"

btw, i'm ashamed i find this amusing, you don't have to tell me.
Hey, I've got an amusing scenario you and your fellow jesters should get a chuckle over.

A cyclist gets decapitated while cycling in traffic due to getting hit by a car (for whatever reason). Passerbys see that the head is intact and state "Sure is a good thing he was wearing his helmet, his head didn't get a scratch." And they tell their friends by email this amusing story for more chuckles. Ha, Ha, and Ha, eh?

[Wulfheir]

Hey, I've got an amusing scenario you and your fellow jesters should get a chuckle over.

A cyclist gets decapitated while cycling in traffic due to getting hit by a car (for whatever reason). Passerbys see that the head is intact and state "Sure is a good thing he was wearing his helmet, his head didn't get a scratch." And they tell their friends by email this amusing story for more chuckles. Ha, Ha, and Ha, eh?
Mine was better, good effort though. The jab at my nationality was a nice touch.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

The jab at my nationality was a nice touch.
Relax. Smug self righteousness knows no boundries.

[Mars]

This thread is getting out of control. Some people found the situation ironically funny, others didn't. Whatever. No one is going to change their minds about how they responded to this story because someone on the internet thinks they were ghoulish or lacks a sense of humor.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

This thread is getting out of control. Some people found the situation ironically funny, others didn't. Whatever. No one is going to change their minds about how they responded to this story because someone on the internet thinks they were ghoulish or lacks a sense of humor.
This thread was out of control from post #1.

[slagjumper]

I guess we all would not think the womans' misfortune as funny if so many cyclists were not hurt, killed or maimed by cell phone wielding drivers. Still I want to see the police photo of the arm with hand still clutching the phone. It would be a great "reminder" to the people who think that they can talk and drive w/o issue, (myself included).

[Blue Order]

I admit that I have a very dark sense of humour, but don't take me for laughing at dismemberment. It was the notion that even a very severe injury couldn't get the driver to relinquish their grasp on the phone.How about this: She's driving along, talking on her phone, maybe telling Muffy about the new shoes she just bought, maybe telling her daughter's pediatrician that she's going to be a few minutes late, when she drifts to the median, overcorrects, and starts to lose control of her truck. Instead of continuing her conversation she attempts to regain control of her vehicle, using both hands, with one hand still clutching her cell phone. Or maybe, instead, it all happens so fast that she just doesn't have time to let go of the phone before her arm is torn off.

Yeah, that's so funny people.

[Blue Order]

It was possibly the dismemberment that wouldn't allow the grasp to be relinquished. Think about it.+1

[Fred Smedley]

The accident was not funny at all, but the jokes certainly were. If we can not laugh at ourselves we are doomed to insanity.

[royalflash]

It is a bit sick but after being harassed and endangered by enough thoughtless and even reckless (with other people´s lives at least) motorists I would think that most cyclists have wished that the perpetrators would reap some of what they have sown.

"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war"

[thebankman]

Anyone laughing at the dismembered woman is unamerican and against freedom.

[linux_author]

Well, it may be rather wrong of me to say it, but I think it's nature's way of saying "hang the hell up!"

http://www.wlextv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4449021

- i thought cellphone use while driving was prolific when we lived inside the Belchway in Arlington, Va....

- but drivers down here in Pinellas on the gulf make those folks look like pikers - i was waiting at a light at a major intersection last week and counted six out of 10 folks coming through a turn lane with a cell planted in their ears; then i looked to the right and left and drivers on both sides of me had a cell in their ears!

- who the *heck* are these people talking to, anyway?

[Blue Order]

The accident was not funny at all, but the jokes certainly were. If we can not laugh at ourselves we are doomed to insanity.Oh, we're laughing at ourselves, and not at the woman whose arm was torn off. I must have gotten confused.

[Mars]

Anyone laughing at the dismembered woman is unamerican and against freedom.

AND they are damned liberals as well!

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I guess we all would not think the womans' misfortune as funny if so many cyclists were not hurt, killed or maimed by cell phone wielding drivers.
You have a number or a percentage of cyclists' hurt, killed, or maimed by cell phone wielding drivers; or any substantiation at all for using the term "so many"? Please not the conventional wisdom or a few examples, and yes we all know about Sidney.

[jhota]

- who the *heck* are these people talking to, anyway?

each other?

[schwinnbikelove]

Oh, we're laughing at ourselves, and not at the woman whose arm was torn off. I must have gotten confused.

I think Fred was talking more about the "big picture".

Personally, I don't know what to think about the fact that I agree with most of the contradicting replies here all at the same time.

[thebankman]

People getting hurt isn't funny (in a morbid way I guess it is, but having seen people in the hospital I can't say I was smiling in any way shape or form). Maybe the accident could have been prevented had she not been talking on a phone. The accident definitely would have been prevented had she not been driving a big truck and known how to deal with an emergency situation.

[khuon]

- who the *heck* are these people talking to, anyway?each other?

I'm suddenly reminded of that scene from The Simpsons where Lenny is driving along talking to Karl on his cellphone who also happens to be driving and talking to Lenny on his cellphone and both of them are complaining about some jackass talking on their cellphone and driving down the street the wrong way. They were of course unwittingly talking about the other and eventually end up hitting each other head-on.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I think Fred was talking more about the "big picture".

And WHAT is the "Big Picture"?

[schwinnbikelove]

And WHAT is the "Big Picture"?

The irony of life.

[Blue Order]

I think cell phone use in a vehicle should be as serious a violation as DUII. I also think that, generally, anybody who injures or kills another person as a result of their cell phone use should have the book thrown at them. And I see the humor in a movie scene that depicts an arm still clutching a cell phone... in a movie scene.

I don't see anything humorous about this woman losing her arm, and I don't see any sort of "justice" in this woman losing her arm. Have cyclists been killed by cell phone users? Sure. Has this woman killed anybody? No. So where's the "justice"? Or do we mete out "justice" based on membership in a group these days?

[twahl]

This is not advocacy. This is ugly. Shame on you all.

+ whatever count I am. But then again, whenever I see "cager" in a thread title, I've come to expect the rest to be idiotic drivel.

[iBarna]

Hey, I've got an amusing scenario you and your fellow jesters should get a chuckle over.

A cyclist gets decapitated while cycling in traffic due to getting hit by a car (for whatever reason). Passerbys see that the head is intact and state "Sure is a good thing he was wearing his helmet, his head didn't get a scratch." And they tell their friends by email this amusing story for more chuckles. Ha, Ha, and Ha, eh?

Harr! I laughed. Macabre.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

+ whatever count I am. But then again, whenever I see "cager" in a thread title, I've come to expect the rest to be idiotic drivel.
Equally true when the poster uses the term "cager" in the body of the message. Guaranteed to be an anti-car drivel meister posing as a bicycling advocate.

[slagjumper]

You have a number or a percentage of cyclists' hurt, killed, or maimed by cell phone wielding drivers; or any substantiation at all for using the term "so many"? Please not the conventional wisdom or a few examples, and yes we all know about Sidney.
Government Cell Stats (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/template.MAXIMIZE/menuitem.5928da45f99592381601031046108a0c/!-2002334967?javax.portlet.tpst=4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_4427b997caacf504a8bdba101891ef9a_viewID=detail_view&javax.portlet.begCacheTok=token&javax.portlet.endCacheTok=token&itemID=d01bab6383f62010VgnVCM1000002c567798RCRD&viewType=standard)
Q. Does cell phone use while driving cause traffic crashes?
A. Research shows that driving while using a cell phone can pose a serious cognitive distraction and degrade driver performance. The data are insufficient to quantify crashes caused by cell phone use specifically, but NHTSA estimates that driver distraction from all sources contributes to 25 percent of all police-reported traffic crashes.

So if there are 800 bike deaths per year, 150-200 involve distractions, certainly cell phones are distracting and encourage absence of presence.

In the scope of things this may not seem like much. But to think that simply talking on the phone while driving, more or less killed them is insane. I figure it is like cigarettes, it took 30 years after the evidence of a causal relationship between smoking and cancer that any significant laws where passed. It is a wonder that the car insurance companies have not started some kind of cell phone - free discount.

In my opinion there is not enough evidence in this case, from what I know -- to say that talking on the cell phone caused the accident. First there is the question of was she just holding the phone (Unlikely), but debatable. Second, there are other factors like "overcorrecting” a vehicle with a higher than a car center of gravity. Ultimately the driver is responsible regardless of the cause.

There is no shortage of cell phone bike death anecdotes. And those are compelling if not quantifiable. Like the woman in Hilton Head Island, who showed no remorse for her behavior. She was driving in fog while talking. We would probably be safer if we banned males younger than 19 from driving, then by banning cell phones.

[DataJunkie]

- who the *heck* are these people talking to, anyway?

I was watching a news program a few weeks ago and it stated that a certain percentage (what % I have no clue) are not talking to anyone. It's a status thing to feel important. Should we slaughter these evildoers also?

I think it is perfectly plausable that this occurs in motor vehicles. Personally, I tend to pick up my cell phone and pretend to make a call when someone is harrasing me. Then again I do the same thing on a bike.
The offending motorist tends to panic and quit the harrasment.

[slagjumper]

I was watching a news program a few weeks ago and it stated that a certain percentage (what % I have no clue) are not talking to anyone. It's a status thing to feel important. Should we slaughter these evildoers also?

I think it is perfectly plausable that this occurs in motor vehicles. Personally, I tend to pick up my cell phone and pretend to make a call when someone is harrasing me. Then again I do the same thing on a bike.
The offending motorist tends to panic and quit the harrasment.

In Connecticut it is against the law to hold a cell phone while driving, if you are under 18.

[KrisPistofferson]

A lot of you seem to want to overlook the fact that this lady was at least endangering the life of her daughter, if not other motorists and/or cyclists. So yes, this was "poetic justice," in a sense-if a pregnant lady got lung cancer from her pack a day habit, or a DUI was so trashed he ran into a brick wall, I'd feel the same sense of relief that maybe they'd learned a freakin' lesson without taking someone else out with them.

"Her arm was found near the accident still clutching a cell phone."
:roflmao: I don't care, that ****'s funny. But now hopefully every time this dummy wants to chatter about what's on sale at the mall while driving, she'll look over at her stump and think twice. It's a shame she couldn't have looked over at her little girl and decided against it before any of this happened.

[flipped4bikes]

I remember driving on 128 outside of Boston in the left lane, behind 3 other cars following a guy using a cell phone. We all were easily going 75mph, and noticed the cell phone driver was not exactly staying in his lane. All of us following him backed off some, when all of a sudden he swerved around. He lost control of his car and crashed into the median guardrail and bounced back out into the lane in front of us. Luckily all of us behind him were able to stop and avoid him and no one else got involved in the accident.

Once stopped, I leapt out to aid the driver. I found him laying in the front passenger side! Apparently, he dropped his cell phone and was reaching for it, and that's how he lost control of his vehicle. And no, he wasn't wearing a seat belt. The weird part was as I was asking if he was OK, he simply reached out with his cell phone in hand! So I ended up dialing 911 on his phone!

The state troopers and EMTs took and excruciatingly long time to arrive. There was even a private ambulance that simply crawled by during the ensuing traffic jam. Once help arrived, and I explained to the trooper what happened, I left the scene quite shaken.

Why do I tell this story? Because even though the driver's cell phone misuse was the CAUSE of the accident, it never occurred to me that he DESERVED this fate. That's just stupid and caustic thinking.

It's easy to point to a gruesome story and snicker at it, and quite another to actually see it happen...

This is a distasteful thread, and really hope people realize this.

[arpy]

...

Why do I tell this story? Because even though the driver's cell phone misuse was the CAUSE of the accident, it never occurred to me that he DESERVED this fate. That's just stupid and caustic thinking.

It's easy to point to a gruesome story and snicker at it, and quite another to actually see it happen...

This is a distasteful thread, and really hope people realize this.
Very well said...and I couldn't agree more!

My nephew (my sister's only child) was killed at the age of 18 this past year. Yes, he had been to a party, he had been drinking, and he was driving too fast and lost control on a freeway and was killed. Fortunately, thank whatever god or goddess you believe in, he harmed no one else and was the only casualty of his stupidity. Yes he was stupid (trust me, his mother and I have cried about how dumb it was many many many days since last April). However, I don't think he deserved to die. How I wish he would have been pulled over and arrested that night. He'd still be here for people to say how stupid he was to drink and drive that night. My sister wouldn't be childless and spend her days sobbing and wishing that she would've died too that night. I tell this story only to make the point that just because someone does something incredibly stupid doesn't necessarily mean that that person deserves to be injured or die.

To get some sort of pleasure from other people's pain and suffering is quite revealing of that person's character...I think.

Let he/she who has never done something stupid/dumb/idiotic/crazy or dangerous throw the first stone. By reading through this thread, I see there are many people who have never done any of those things. What's that feel like to have never done anything stupid or dangerous in your lives?

[royalflash]

to me these last 2 posts just emphasise the basic problem (regardless of the supid things I have done or not done) these people basically all brought their misfortune upon themselves-they could so easily have brought their misfortune onto others. At which point like Sydney´s killer we would have had their sad little stories pitched to the court.

As cyclists encountering these people we often aren´t left with the luxury of being able to pitch a sad story to any court. We never get to see out loved ones again and they never see us.

So I am sorry if some of the posters seem heartless but life has consequences.

[Da Tinker]

One point which is coming to the fore is that many studies in multiple industrial countries shows that cell phone usage while driving is roughly equivalent to a blood alcohol level of 0.08%, which is a legally drunk driver. So those who are equating cell phone usage with DUI are spot on.

Part of my day job is driving instructor. Attached is a single slide from a presentation I wrote on the matter.

Headsets and hands-free rigs seem to help, but only somewhat. At least headset users are better able to turn their heads and look around. But they are harder to spot as cell phone users.

[arpy]

I couldn't agree more, Royalflash, that life has consequences. Karma sucks sometimes and is completely unavoidable.

My issue isn't that life has consequences--because it absolutely does. My issue is more with the apparent joy that many in this thread seem to get from "cagers" and a "cell phone users" getting injured and even killed....simply because they are "cagers" and cell phone users. Maybe I'm missing something that is so obviously amusing about that. I await to be enlightened.

[KrisPistofferson]

So I am sorry if some of the posters seem heartless but life has consequences.Very true. I personally cannot count how many times a driver has squeaked by my handlebars by mere inches, and when I catch their silhouette, they are invariably yakking on the cellphone, so maybe I'm prejudiced against folks who drive and talk on the phone at the same time. Doing all that with your daughter as a passenger is even worse. So maybe I'm a beast for getting some visceral gratification from this, but it is the exact inverse of the rage I would feel if her daughter had been hurt or a cyclist/motorist/pedestrian had been hit.

[Blue Order]

My nephew (my sister's only child) was killed at the age of 18 this past year. Yes, he had been to a party, he had been drinking, and he was driving too fast and lost control on a freeway and was killed. Fortunately, thank whatever god or goddess you believe in, he harmed no one else and was the only casualty of his stupidity. Yes he was stupid (trust me, his mother and I have cried about how dumb it was many many many days since last April). However, I don't think he deserved to die.My best friend just had a baby boy-- my "nephew." I worry about him sometimes, because I know he'll be faced with these issues when he's older. I'm going to do the best I can to teach him to make good decisions, but even if he makes mistakes-- and we all make mistakes-- I'm going to love him anyway.

I'm sorry for your loss. Kids make dumb mistakes, and it's sad when they pay a price that heavy. When I look back at all the dumb things I've done, I realize just how lucky I've really been. I hope I can help my "nephew" make better choices in his life than I've made. And hopefully, if he makes mistakes-- and he will-- they won't be fatal mistakes, and hopefully, when he makes mistakes, people will understand the difference between justice and revenge.

[DigitalQuirk]

I read some of the responses in this thread, and I am reminded of the media reports of some Palestinians and Egyptians dancing and celebrating in the streets after the planes took down the World Trade Centers in New York. I suppose zealots are all the same in that their cause comes before people, and they wait for opportunities like this to validate their beliefs. They (the zealots) have made this woman their enemy without actually knowing the person. Sad, really. Especially when we don't know the full story; people assume it must be the fact that she was using a cell phone and driving at the same time, only because it fits their dogma.

[KrisPistofferson]

Especially when we don't know the full story; people assume it must be the fact that she was using a cell phone and driving at the same time, only because it fits their dogma.Yeah, she could have been text messaging...
:rolleyes:

[Fred Smedley]

Oh, we're laughing at ourselves, and not at the woman whose arm was torn off. I must have gotten confused.

I always laugh at my own jokes if they are good. The accident was tragic, great jokes are born of tragedy. The joke does not change the tragedy. If these jokes offend you, I doubt you would last very long in my house. Sadly my wife and kids gang up on me more often than the other way around here, but it's very funny! . No subject is sacred, including severed arms.


Concerning cell phones, I think their use by drivers in moving cars ought to be outlawed. My safety is threated on a daily basis by cell phone users.