View Full Version : guys...i need your help, BEERMAN too
i need to make a couple decisions on a bmx frame. i am not doing any particular style of riding. however, i do want frame longevity in the back of your mind as you give me your opinions.
1) i need to decide on integrated vs. conventional head tube?
2) i need to decide on a mid vs. euro bottom bracket?
now i know i already posed these questions before, but now its decision time. i am personally leaning towards conventional HT with the Solid HS Beerman showed me. i really like this one.
i think the tougher decision might be the BB. i basically know i want a euro. however, what do you think about those adapters that convert to a euro? would the mid BB offer a better frame in any aspect? ...better to the point that you would rather have the mid BB frame with a conversion to euro if you just had to have euro?
thanks for the input a second time around!
CMcMahon
02-21-06, 03:38 PM
Integrated and Mid.
The Solid may be awesome, but the FSA Impact I have right now is cheaper, lower profile, and is just as smooth.
The Mid will be stronger, the bearings won't blow out as easily (I blew out two pairs of Euro bearings in a year, but I've never broken the American-sized bearings used in the Mid), and, honestly, the weight difference between the two is negligible. American-Euro conversion kits are retarded, BTW; you won't say any weight, and the bearings will be much weaker.
Integrated and Mid.
The Solid may be awesome, but the FSA Impact I have right now is cheaper, lower profile, and is just as smooth.
The Mid will be stronger, the bearings won't blow out as easily (I blew out two pairs of Euro bearings in a year, but I've never broken the American-sized bearings used in the Mid), and, honestly, the weight difference between the two is negligible. American-Euro conversion kits are retarded, BTW; you won't say any weight, and the bearings will be much weaker.
thanks...follow-up question.
1) no reservations or worries that the head tube will ovalize? i guess this is probably just in aluminum frames. this is probably the only hesitation i have. should i not worry about that in a chromoly frame?
2) what do you think about about a euro BB and the outboard bearing type? i think it could tastefully work on a BMX. regardless if you think it wouldn't look right, do you think those outboard bearing models are better? i mean they do hold up to down hillers and free rider's abuse?
3) i don't mean to belabor this point, but it is important i iron these issues out now. set-aside the fact you blew out a few euro's, just frame wise...do you think that for any reason that a mid makes for a better frame?
thanks
CMcMahon
02-21-06, 07:07 PM
1) I've never heard of a BMX bike with an internal headset having the headtube ovalize; I've only seen that happen with standard headtubes.
2) My friend Cole has an outboard bearing on his BMX bike (he, for some incredibly stupid reason, uses Race Face cranks). He snapped his chainring in half yesterday. So, I wouldn't recommend it. Besides, downhillers and freeriders have, what, 10-15" of rear travel? Their BBs won't go through the same kind of abuse as one on a BMX bike will.
3) Aside from the fact that I trust the larger bearings to not sh1t the bed when I least want them to? Well, yes: the larger BB diameter gives more contact area for the downtube, seattube, and chainstay junction welds on it, giving it a placebo-like effect of looking more sturdy, even if that's not actually true (which, personally, I would suspect it to be).
okay...appreciate your insight
http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/images/smilie/bigthumb.gif
what do you think about this? doesn't it bind up quite a bit into the frame as you're screwing it together?? also, would this not work on a mid bracket frame? i am a little confused still on the mid vs the american?
http://www.bikeparts.com/pimage/BPC313636.jpg
http://www.albes.com/ProductImages/crankphotos/profileevolutionbottombkt.jpg
CMcMahon
02-21-06, 09:46 PM
A Mid uses the standard R12 bearings from a 19mm (3/4") American crankset (ex: Odyssey 41 Thermal, Profile Race). It can also use a custom-sized bearing to work with cranks with a 22mm spindle.
That thing, which thankfully never caught on, is just an American that threads together instead of being pressed in the "hard" way.
A Mid uses the standard R12 bearings from a 19mm (3/4") American crankset (ex: Odyssey 41 Thermal, Profile Race). It can also use a custom-sized bearing to work with cranks with a 22mm spindle.
That thing, which thankfully never caught on, is just an American that threads together instead of being pressed in the "hard" way.
i don't mind just pressing the cups in...you you would avoid this product? so i am trying to understand this...sorry, is the BB shell of the frame the same diameter between american and mid? is there a standard? XXmm dia by XXmm width?
(look at my post in a sec about hubs)
CMcMahon
02-21-06, 10:21 PM
No. A Mid uses only the bearings from the a 3/4"-spindled American. The bearing press directly into the bottom bracket; there are no cups. I don't know the exact specs for the Mid offhand, but - unlike with the American - there is a standard.
No. A Mid uses only the bearings from the a 3/4"-spindled American. The bearing press directly into the bottom bracket; there are no cups. I don't know the exact specs for the Mid offhand, but - unlike with the American - there is a standard.
oh okay...i'm sorry.
so is that why i am having a bit of a hard time finding them at a place like danscomp? when you order them, do you just tell them the bearing size and then get the spacer too? so the parts are as follows: 2 bearings, spacer, spindle, 2 crank arms, and no cups! is this about right?
...and then you said you could get a larger ID bearing and run a 22mm spindle if you want?
am i getting it?
so is the bearing just exposed to the outside world or is there any other item/seal i am missing?
now i found one at danscomp:
http://www.danscomp.com/products/BOTTOMBRACKETS/456040.jpg
CMcMahon
02-21-06, 11:22 PM
When you order the cranks, just tell them that your frame has a Mid BB, and they'll send you the correct bearings and spacers. It's as simple as that.
dirtjumper101
02-23-06, 11:11 PM
beerman you clearly know exactly what your talking about, im impressed. you must have been riding and learning about BMX for a while
KinetikBiker
02-24-06, 06:38 PM
what do you think about this?
http://www.bikeparts.com/pimage/BPC313636.jpg
http://www.albes.com/ProductImages/crankphotos/profileevolutionbottombkt.jpg
ive heard that the boltish thing stips easy and gets messdup if you miss grinds and hit it...
thats what i heard/saw
ive heard that the boltish thing stips easy and gets messdup if you miss grinds and hit it...
thats what i heard/saw
thanks! i have decided on a mid setup :)
KinetikBiker
02-24-06, 10:26 PM
mid bb and spanish bb seems to be the way to go as far as the "trends" and "clean" looks for new frames, oh and...your welcome for the help on the Profile bb thing...
premiumbmx2005
02-25-06, 09:09 AM
im fine with my euro bb, haha
bmichaelx
02-25-06, 10:51 AM
I don't like Spanish personaly, it seems too weak.
KinetikBiker
02-25-06, 04:42 PM
I don't like Spanish personaly, it seems too weak.
And how many have you ridden/broken?
Probly none...
bmichaelx
02-26-06, 12:34 AM
And how many have you ridden/broken?
Probly none...
Notice how I said "seems" weak, and I "personaly" don't like them"? It's called a ****ing "opinion" genius. They look weak as **** compared to the beefy looking mid bracket, and it has a smaller diameter than the Mid, which logically makes them wear out quicker.
Before you start talking ****, read the posts more carefully.
KinetikBiker
02-26-06, 05:22 AM
I can read thank you very much, i was asking if you have VISUALLY seen any problems with them?
Probly not.
Its fine to have an opinion, i was just wondering if you have actually SEEN someones blowout or get messed up...
bmichaelx
02-26-06, 03:13 PM
Have I SEEN it when it happened? No, I have heard about it, and seen the aftermath though.
KinetikBiker
02-26-06, 03:30 PM
Ok this battle has turned into a stalemate...
Whatever bmichaelx...
your just saying it turned stalemate because you dont want to admit to your defeat
please stop fighting it hurts my feelings
hypersnazz
02-27-06, 11:15 AM
I don't know offhand what the part number on the bearings are, but that number is standardized. Once you get your mid bearings, take a look at the number stamped on the seals. You should be able to get those from pretty much anywhere that sells bearing cartridges...that's how I get replacements for my Euro cartridges when I smash 'em.
Beerman, does anyone sell a bearing tool for mids? I unfortunately haven't gotten a chance to play with this technology so I only know how it works on paper.
CMcMahon
02-27-06, 01:15 PM
The "bearing tools" for a Mid would be some grease and a rubber mallet.
hypersnazz
02-27-06, 07:37 PM
Usually for things like hubs there'll be a setting tool with a shaft on it to keep you pounding evenly on the races. I guess it's not such a big deal unless the bearing is recessed into the shell (which I'm assuming it's not).
Usually for things like hubs there'll be a setting tool with a shaft on it to keep you pounding evenly on the races. I guess it's not such a big deal unless the bearing is recessed into the shell (which I'm assuming it's not).
you're correct...this is still the proper way to do it. we'll see what i end up doing :D
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