Google sponsored links
Here's the official web site: http://www.amgentourofcalifornia.com/
I'd like to think that anything that brings media and attention to cycling, especially in American cities, will increase the public awareness of cycling in general.
This race is going down the coast of CA, and should involve a lot of spectators...
Will it help with the notion of cycling in the public eye?
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Considering that it comes on at 12:00am and 1:00am here....I really doubt it.
When they stop giving bowling a better timeslot, then we'll see.
Considering that it comes on at 12:00am and 1:00am here....I really doubt it.
When they stop giving bowling a better timeslot, then we'll see.
Agreed. I think the coverage sucks... at least for me. Maybe local stations are giving better coverage.
That said, if I weren't already a cyclist, the Specialized Angel would surely make me want to give cycling a try.
Will it help with the notion of cycling in the public eye?
A little bit, but no so much. There's a lot of people who don't know this event is going on. The still see us cyclists as a general nuisance.
BUT ... every little bit helps. I'm glad there's a ToC.
It is only the first one. It will take some time to grow larger, and when it does, it'll help the sport. I don't know if it will help the average utility cyclist or not. That's not to say it won't. Just that I don't know.
I guess what I am asking is that between the TdF and the TdC and Lance and the price of gas, isn't reasonable to expect something like a '70s upswell in persons interested in cycling.
Even if the TV publicity isn't there (and damn, why not.... ) the run of the tour near and around the major cities of CA could perk the awareness of the local citizens... eh?
Perhaps what is really needed is a series of tours in different locations around America.
I guess what I am asking is that between the TdF and the TdC and Lance and the price of gas, isn't reasonable to expect something like a '70s upswell in persons interested in cycling. Even if the TV publicity isn't there (and damn, why not.... )
No it is not. The US public's interest in bicycle racing can barely be detected. Lance's story is inspiring but it doesn't rub off into interest in an extremely boring sport for non enthusiasts to watch more than 5 minutes.
Perhaps what is really needed is a series of tours in different locations around America.
Needed by whom? Certainly the public isn't clammoring for such a series.
Perhaps what is really needed is a series of tours in different locations around America.
This is why Livestrong rides are popping up in more cities this year.
California Tourism awareness = ToC
Cancer Awareness = Livestrong
It is only the first one. It will take some time to grow larger, and when it does, it'll help the sport. I don't know if it will help the average utility cyclist or not. That's not to say it won't. Just that I don't know.
Hey it's coming your way... I think stage 5 ends in SB...
No it is not. The US public's interest in bicycle racing can barely be detected. Lance's story is inspiring but it doesn't rub off into interest in an extremely boring sport for non enthusiasts to watch more than 5 minutes.
And how is it any more boring than NASCAR, which seems to have a grip on the nation?
Needed by whom? Certainly the public isn't clammoring for such a series.
Really... how do they know until they have seen a race in action... pretty poor assumption about something so many know so little about...
But the reality is I posed the question about a series as a way to generate interest... Soccer was never seen as any kind of a sport in this country until it was taught to kids... granted we still don't have a National Soccer League, but there sure are a lot of kids playing on weekends... all it took was some organization to generate some interest.
BikeForums member “steephill” went to a lot of trouble to create an excellent website containing still photos and video of the Tour. Here’s a link to the page for stage one:
http://www.steephill.tv/grassyknoll/storyboard.php?event=2&filter=9185
In that collection I found this photo of an anti-bike protester’s sign:
http://www.steephill.tv/grassyknoll/show.php?clip=332&filter=17185
:fight:
Overall, I think events like the Tour of California and the upcoming Ford Tour de Georgia are good for advocacy although they reinforce the idea that cycling is a great sport/fitness activity without doing much to promote cycling as transportation for regular folks.
Yes, it's coming my way. And it's making quite a big to-do in town, on the news, in the papers. People are either very excited, agnostic or else they are angry that roads have to be closed for this. They did say on TV last night that it's brought a boom to local bike stores, but I find that hard to believe. Easier to believe is the bike stores got a free plug on TV last night and they want everyone to feel like jumping on the bandwagon...
The hope seems to be that it'll bring more tourist dollars to California, and locally to Santa Barbara. Who knows? Maybe it will. But make biking more popular? I'm not sure. Only time will tell.
Wow, "anti advocacy... " guess some folks do feel they own the road.
Wonder how many feel the same as this protester.
http://www.steephill.tv/grassyknoll/uploads/images_r/332.jpg
I guess I am clueless as to how a bicyclist is "endangering" his life...
I ran into a few people like that this Saturday, just while riding around my neighborhood. They didn't have signs, but they were pretty vocal and physical with their confrontations.
What a bunch of morons.
The corporate sponsorship turns me off right away.
The corporate sponsorship turns me off right away.
how come? not to be antagonistic, but i'd like to know this point of view. i, myself don't see the harm.
Wow, "anti advocacy... " guess some folks do feel they own the road.
Wonder how many feel the same as this protester.
http://www.steephill.tv/grassyknoll/uploads/images_r/332.jpg
I guess I am clueless as to how a bicyclist is "endangering" his life...
I'm not sure either but you know what? That's kind of a cool frame design. :D
Hey... is that a bike helmet in the front seat? Or I guess it could be a hardhat.
http://www.steephill.tv/grassyknoll/uploads/images_r/329.jpg
Eh, nevermind (I was going to post that picture of the truck, too).
The corporate sponsorship turns me off right away.
Then you probably don't watch much bike racing at all. Events of this magnitude simply do not happen without corporate sponsorship of some sort.
Eh, nevermind (I was going to post that picture of the truck, too).
Can't help but wonder what makes this guy think like this... I mean first how much "endangering" can a cyclist do to him and his Toyota? Second, OK perhaps he has had to wait on a cyclist or few... big deal... longer than a stop light? Third, can't help but wonder how many like him there are.
It's like the anti bike movement... just the opposite of "love the earth" and the whole pro-bike thing of the 70s. (likely an extension of the 60's "movements") So are these folks just "scorched earth" environmental haters or what?
And how is it any more boring than NASCAR, which seems to have a grip on the nation?
Probably for the same reason that evreybody else in the reast of the world is crazy about soccer; which is - I don't have the slightest idea why -BUT people in the zillions DO love NASCAR and Soccer and show it in attendence and the TV ratings; and in the US couldn't give a poop about bicycle racing as a spectator, participant or TV follower.
Really... how do they know until they have seen a race in action... pretty poor assumption about something so many know so little about...
Action? Did you say action in a bicycle race? Besides at the finish line, who can detect it?
Soccer was never seen as any kind of a sport in this country until it was taught to kids... granted we still don't have a National Soccer League, but there sure are a lot of kids playing on weekends... all it took was some organization to generate some interest.
And soon as the kids stop playing mom, pop, grandparents and the kids ignore the sport. Only time even faint interest is in evidence (in the US) is when there is blood relative in pee wee or on a school team. Hey, my kids played pee wee soccer; they enjoyed it, my wife and I went to all matches and now no one even know where it is played. I don't know anybody (US born) who follows the sport, or would walk across the street to see the World Cup. Sometimes there is a spark of attention if the US can beat some other nation in the Olympics or World Cup and then it is just a matter of jingoism. And the game itself is irrelevant.
The hope seems to be that it'll bring more tourist dollars to California, and locally to Santa Barbara. Who knows? Maybe it will. But make biking more popular? I'm not sure. Only time will tell.
RAGBRAI is a success story for bringing significant tourist money to the areas it passes through. Plus the local communities love the attention, money and opportunity to meet the participants. A winning deal all around. But make biking more popular? Not a bit.
RAGBRAI is a success story for bringing significant tourist money to the areas it passes through. Plus the local communities love the attention, money and opportunity to meet the participants. A winning deal all around. But make biking more popular? Not a bit.
OK perhaps RAGBRAI like events are better for the general public...
But what I want to know is how you have your finger on the pulse of America and can confidently declare: " But make biking more popular? Not a bit."
How do you know... have you questioned folks in the towns that RAGBRAI goes through to see if anyone has decided to join or not to join based on seeing it? Have the numbers of participants changed over the years to indicate a reduction in interest? What is your indicator of the lack of interest?
Around the time of one of Armstrong's wins, a motorist watched me keep up with downtown traffic for several blocks and a couple of turns. He say, "way to go lance" (or something like that). I tend to get more pro-cycling comments from co-workers around TdF time, too.
Positive coverage of cycling racing is a positive for all cyclists, even those of us who don't race and never will. The number of people watching the race doesn't matter as much as the people who see the blurb on their local news.
Will it convert massive numbers of people into bike commuters? No. But it helps.
Action? Did you say action in a bicycle race? Besides at the finish line, who can detect it?
Ever been to a bike race?
<sarcasm on>
And certainly there is as much action in a bike race as there is in a NASCAR race... especially with the drivers going round and round and round and round in a circle... oh yeah... thrill a minute. <sarcasm off>
Bottom line is that with NASCAR there is money involved, and beer sponsors and tobacco sponsors... and lots of greasy fattening food... other than that, who gives a rat's butt.
Can't help but wonder what makes this guy think like this... I mean first how much "endangering" can a cyclist do to him and his Toyota? Second, OK perhaps he has had to wait on a cyclist or few... big deal... longer than a stop light? Third, can't help but wonder how many like him there are.
It's like the anti bike movement... just the opposite of "love the earth" and the whole pro-bike thing of the 70s. (likely an extension of the 60's "movements") So are these folks just "scorched earth" environmental haters or what?
Yeah, it's pretty funny, huh? In a scary sort of way. There are a lot of folks with this attitude in the backwoods up around here and probably all over the state and nation for that matter. I was on an organized ride last summer, going through some remote areas and some old fat beyotch in a rusted out pickup comes blazing down the road well over the speed limit shouting, "you're not welcome here!" to a pack of cyclists. I don't get it either. Not much you can do but feel sorry for them for being so ignorant.
Ever been to a bike race?
Yeah the TDF stage when it ended in Freiburg Germany. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/yawn.gif
Bottom line is that with NASCAR there is money involved, and beer sponsors and tobacco sponsors... and lots of greasy fattening food... other than that, who gives a rat's butt.
Maybe the millions of people who go to the races throughout the year and the millions more who watch on TV and spend zillions on products endordsed by a whole array of personalities well known by name to Americans.
I suppose you think the saintly TDF is above promotion by its "invisible" (to you) sponsors.
Professional cycling promoters in the US can only wish and dream that McDonalds would sponsor them or that Coors wwould come back to the fold. Or that Winston would sponsor a bicycling racing series like they USED to do for NASCAR. Heck, didn't even Celestial Seasonings/Red Zinger Tea drop cycle racing sponsorship for lack of interest? Bicycle racing's best hope is to get a Paul Allen or Mark Cuban type zillionaire to take a personal fancy to it and bankroll the sport despite lack of a fan base.
I Tivo'd the time trial the other night. (ESPN2 i think) Then i set it up for the second stage. Mysteriously, it recorded a basketball game instead. What gives? Hard to tell. I was just impressed that i was able to use the term cycling in a tivo search and actually record a program. It was a first!
Heck, didn't even Celestial Seasonings/Red Zinger Tea drop cycling for lack of interest?
Lack of interest in their bank account most likely. I don't think the sponsors really care if people are interested in the sport for the sport's sake. What they do care about is whether they are getting return on their investment. Sponsorship is advertising, if the advertising is not translating into sales then they find a new advertising campaign that costs less. It's pretty simple economics. These guys are in business to make money, not to entertain us. If they can manage to entertain us and make money at the same time it's win-win but it doesn't always work out.
Bicycle racing's best hope is to get a Paul Allen or Mark Cuban type zillionaire to take a personal fancy to it and bankroll the sport despite lack of a fan base.
Well I doubt that's bicycle racing's best hope, but it sure would be nice if someone with a lot of money to burn would burn some of it putting on cycling races, without cramming the advertising down our throats -- but I doubt even that would end team sponsorships. For some sponsors, it is a good investment in advertising to have the winners displaying their company's name -- even if it doesn't make the evening news every night.
NASCAR and Velos are related...only difference is vehicle of choice....so it's a poor comparison.
People don't seem interested in running as a sport either....well except those that do or did run.
It all boils down to desire....most of these people don't know what a bike race feels like, or can't remember the neighborhood bike races as a kid...3-sp english racer blasting down the street....sound of baseball cards ripping apart between the spokes...maybe the sound of one of the kids huffing and puffing like he's trying to blow down a little piggy's house...
Basically they just see a bunch of guys huffing and puffing, but can't relate to them...that's what it is.
That said, I am all for these races, but for the sake of the sport. Let the daily road warriors who commute every day, and the extremists who use their bikes as towing machines (xtracycles) do the promotion of cycling as a lifestyle. At the least, it shows that there are some very dedicated people out there, and might possibly get them to wonder what all of it is about. I don't think racing gets the point across as well as the normal joes do.
For some sponsors, it is a good investment in advertising to have the winners displaying their company's name -- even if it doesn't make the evening news every night.
Only if there are sufficient people watching the race in person or on TV to see the company's name.
Maybe the millions of people who go to the races throughout the year and the millions more who watch on TV and spend zillions on products endordsed by a whole array of personalities well known by name to Americans.
Oh you mean that swill "Budweiser" eh? I guess what ever it takes to numb the masses. Interesting that cigarettes and beer are the big sponsors of the likes of NASCAR :rolleyes: The cigarettes may have gone, but BUSCH is all over their web site.
Oh you mean that swill "Budweiser" eh? I guess what ever it takes to numb the masses. Interesting that cigarettes and beer are the big sponsors of the likes of NASCAR :rolleyes: The cigarettes may have gone, but BUSCH is all over their web site.
And I suppose you have a problem with that, Mr. Eye Roll? Who are the big sponsors that you would approve as meeting your exacting criteria for being allowed to put up the cash to sponsor your pleasure?
Only if there are sufficient people watching the race in person or on TV to see the company's name.
It's not necessarily limited to television. Photos of athletes show up in newspapers, magazines, etc. Some are able to achieve "critical mass" via the combination of all of these outlets. Others may be able to absorb a loss, to be offset by massive gains in other sports/advertising venues. But the bottom line is, well, the bottom line. If they are losing money (spending more on maintaining the team than they're bringing in as a result of that advertising), they're not going to be sponsors for long.
NASCAR and Velos are related...only difference is vehicle of choice....so it's a poor comparison.
People don't seem interested in running as a sport either....well except those that do or did run.
It all boils down to desire....most of these people don't know what a bike race feels like, or can't remember the neighborhood bike races as a kid...3-sp english racer blasting down the street....sound of baseball cards ripping apart between the spokes...maybe the sound of one of the kids huffing and puffing like he's trying to blow down a little piggy's house...
Basically they just see a bunch of guys huffing and puffing, but can't relate to them...that's what it is.
That said, I am all for these races, but for the sake of the sport. Let the daily road warriors who commute every day, and the extremists who use their bikes as towing machines (xtracycles) do the promotion of cycling as a lifestyle. At the least, it shows that there are some very dedicated people out there, and might possibly get them to wonder what all of it is about. I don't think racing gets the point across as well as the normal joes do.
I am not so sure it's that they can't relate to them. I think it's more like it's not as culturally acceptable to relate to some skinny guys in garishly-colored tights. For many in the U.S., it's a lot easier to relate to a car drivin', beer swillin' good ol' boy. It doesn't have to be that way, but it sure seems like that's the way it is. Commander-in-chief being Exhibit 'A' . . .
I am not so sure it's that they can't relate to them. I think it's more like it's not as culturally acceptable to relate to some skinny guys in garishly-colored tights. For many in the U.S., it's a lot easier to relate to a car drivin', beer swillin' good ol' boy. It doesn't have to be that way, but it sure seems like that's the way it is. Commander-in-chief being Exhibit 'A' . . .
True, there is a cultural aspect to it, but also remember that at once point in history here cycling was a popular sport. It's just when automobile racing started taking off, it surpassed cycling.
So who knows, maybe things will turn around in time.
EIther way, I spent a good amount of time up the other night watching the race :)
Personally I have little interest in bike racing. I have very little interest in sports of any kind. I prefer participating, not watching. So yeah, something like RAGBRAI would be much more exciting and inspiring to me because perhaps someday I could do it.
Perhaps what bike racing, running and nascar have in common is not so much the actual happenings around the track, but the amazement of the abilities of the people or machines going round the track. Cars that can go faster than you ever will, runners with endurance you'll never have, bike racers going at speeds you'll never reach. That sort of thing.
Lots of people like to watch sports, so if they like the Tour de California for whatever reason, great for them! The city of Santa Barbara estimates it'll bring in a million dollars of tourist money. Here's a little excerpt from a press release:
Based on initial figures, the Tour's total economic impact could reach at
least $1 million dollars within the two days the race is in the county.
The SBCVB [Santa Barbara County Visitors Bureau] anticipates that the 700 hotel rooms reserved just for Tour
organizers, sponsors, and racers will infuse more than $150,000 into
local coffers. Tour organizers project that race will attract an
estimated 20,000 spectators to Santa Barbara County. SBCVB research
shows that day visitors spend close to $90.00 daily on food, shopping,
and activities.
"Santa Barbara is a very bike-friendly community-with plenty of bike
shops, bike rental agencies, and bike tour companies that offer routes
from the mountains and vineyards to the sea. Cycling enthusiasts
generally are a high-income demographic and spend liberally on lodging,
dining, shopping and entertainment-so many segments of our economy will
benefit over the long-term from exposure and interest generated from the
Tour," stated Janega-Dykes, "And, we encourage all area residents to
experience this free, world-class event."
Personally I have little interest in bike racing. I have very little interest in sports of any kind. I prefer participating, not watching.
I don't know if you've ever been to a bike race but I find one of the best things about them is that people ride their bikes to the races. In point-to-point road races, the spectators will often ride their bikes behind the racers and then take a shortcut at the last minute to arrive at a spot so they can see the field pass by. Bike racing encourages a lot of spectator activity because that's the best way to get to see the action. I suppose one could argue that people drive to NASCAR and auto races but it's not really the same thing.
Personally I have little interest in bike racing. I have very little interest in sports of any kind. I prefer participating, not watching. So yeah, something like RAGBRAI would be much more exciting and inspiring to me because perhaps someday I could do it.
Perhaps what bike racing, running and nascar have in common is not so much the actual happenings around the track, but the amazement of the abilities of the people or machines going round the track. Cars that can go faster than you ever will, runners with endurance you'll never have, bike racers going at speeds you'll never reach. That sort of thing.
Lots of people like to watch sports, so if they like the Tour de California for whatever reason, great for them! The city of Santa Barbara estimates it'll bring in a million dollars of tourist money. Here's a little excerpt from a press release:
This is a whatever-floats-your-boat thing. Many (most?) racers would never think of bicycle commuting. How many roadies drive to their group rides? Likewise, many bicycle commuters would never think about racing. But both activities feed off each other to some extent. Bicycle commuters become a natural audience for cycling events. Racers inspire people to pick up the bicycle and ride, and some of those new riders stick with it.
If some people don't like bike racing, fine. No one's required to. I don't like BMX stunt riding, but I don't go around telling people they should sell their BMX and settle down to a commuting routine on a practical cyclocross bike.
But back to the question, yes, the good publicity from a quality bike race will help cycling advocacy. It won't make everyone sell their cars or convince the government to hand the interstate feeeway system over to cyclists, but it will help. As I said before, I get more positive comments from co-workers when the TdF is on then when it's not.
But back to the question, yes, the good publicity from a quality bike race will help cycling advocacy. It won't make everyone sell their cars or convince the government to hand the interstate feeeway system over to cyclists, but it will help. As I said before, I get morepositive comments from co-workers when the TdF is on then when it's not.
You know ultimately perhaps this is the best we can ask for... simple awareness by the public... some positive response from fellow commuters.
I just wish the media would cover the event as a SPORTING EVENT. There is zero coverage in sporting news. The coverage, which was good, was strictly as a news event. The commentators had no knowledge of racing, and there was no mention of the results or riders other than the winner. They even went so far as saying these atheletes are all unknown except to cycling enthusiastes, but did not mention any names.
They even went so far as saying these atheletes are all unknown except to cycling enthusiastes, but did not mention any names.
Isn't that true? Except for Lance Armstrong, could one in a thousand US sports fans, let alone the general public identify one cyclist by name? If the names were mentioned by the "media", who would recognize 'em except for Bicycle Racing enthusiasts or they were related to the cyclist?
Isn't that true? Except for Lance Armstrong, could one in a thousand US sports fans, let alone the general public identify one cyclist by name? If the names were mentioned by the "media", who would recognize 'em except for Bicycle Racing enthusiasts or they were related to the cyclist?
I would venture to say the same about NASCAR enthusiasts too. In fact, the funny thing about recognition is that in the case of NASCAR, the audiance can't even see their "heros," unlike bike racing, where one can see the faces and the effort put out by the racers.
In addition, cycling advocacy involves some level of commitment to fitness and an open mind related to things from sharing the road to using less gasoline. joe blow down the hall isn't going to see how the ToC, commuting, cycling in general all fits into a bigger picture.
It (whatever "it" is) needs better Public Relations to educate the media to deliver the right messages; including the names of the athletes.
I would venture to say the same about NASCAR enthusiasts too. In fact, the funny thing about recognition is that in the case of NASCAR, the audiance can't even see their "heros," unlike bike racing, where one can see the faces and the effort put out by the racers.
You can venture to say anything you like no matter how misinformed. Take a look at the sports page for last Saturday, Sunday and Monday from any newspaper in the US. and learn what the featured Sporting event was in the US. Lots of names, stories, the works. You don't care about NASCAR, fine; I couldn't care less either. But that lack of interest on my part doesn't become a lack of intelligent observation/recognition of reality as does your lack of interest in the activity. You are wasting your time trying to drum up support for cycle racing by bad mouthing the fans and popularity of other sports activies or by snobbish attitudes about the "low status" of other sports because their sponsors don't meet with your tony approval.
Yeah the TDF stage when it ended in Freiburg Germany. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/yawn.gif
I suppose you think the saintly TDF is above promotion by its "invisible" (to you) sponsors.
.
: :o That is the most regretful thing aboput the TDF to me. The grand spectacle of all the sponsor vehicles roaring by, flinging samples and such. US tv sees that as "Gasp!" unpaid advertising and wipes it. I see it as part of the show and weep for its loss.
: :o That is the most regretful thing aboput the TDF to me. The grand spectacle of all the sponsor vehicles roaring by, flinging samples and such. US tv sees that as "Gasp!" unpaid advertising and wipes it. I see it as part of the show and weep for its loss.
Yeah, that reminds me of another part of the "show" and that is all the effing team cars and motorcycles in the middle of the race or right ahead, behind and along side the racers. That and the zany jack donkeys running in front of the cyclists waving their flags.
I Tivo'd the time trial the other night. (ESPN2 i think) Then i set it up for the second stage. Mysteriously, it recorded a basketball game instead. What gives? Hard to tell. I was just impressed that i was able to use the term cycling in a tivo search and actually record a program. It was a first!
The BB game had a lot of fouls in the last quarter and ran late. So we tape 10 minutes of BB and lose the last lap and finish sprint. The wife and I marshalled at 8th and A streets in Santa Rosa and watched them blur thru 3 right angle turns within 30 seconds. More exciting to me than a finish sprint.
http://www.steephill.tv/grassyknoll/uploads/images_r/329.jpg
The American Flag is a nice touch. As long as you have Old Glory waving in the background, anything you do or say is okay. Just like our elected officials. :rolleyes:
So was Bille Joe Bob Cletus here complaining about bicyclists in general or bicycle facilities?
You can venture to say anything you like no matter how misinformed. Take a look at the sports page for last Saturday, Sunday and Monday from any newspaper in the US. and learn what the featured Sporting event was in the US. Lots of names, stories, the works. You don't care about NASCAR, fine; I couldn't care less either. But that lack of interest on my part doesn't become a lack of intelligent observation/recognition of reality as does your lack of interest in the activity. You are wasting your time trying to drum up support for cycle racing by bad mouthing the fans and popularity of other sports activies or by snobbish attitudes about the "low status" of other sports because their sponsors don't meet with your tony approval.
Well perhaps my responses have been a bit catty, but the bottom line is What about NASCAR makes it popular... consider that back at the turn of the last century, bike racing was extremely popular, consider also that the bike fans can actually see the racers doing their thing, unlike NASCAR where the drivers are covered head to toe in helmet and flame retardant gear. Fans of bike racing can get right next to the track, unlike NASCAR where there is a fence and barrier in the way.
Does it come down to sponsorship (and obviously media attention)? If Budwieser sponsored a TdAmerica, would the Bud crowd follow? If they "build it" will the fans come?
Is there something about bike racing verses NASCAR that makes one better than the other... forget the current coverage... this is a new event and the sportmedia folks are just not ready for it. (otherwise it would be covered far better)
But what about auto racing makes it "hot" verses bike racing... the races of either sport can be done in much the same way... loops around a track or "tours" over an open track. The noise factor is different, obviously, but then so is the ability to get right up to and see the racers.
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