wsexson
02-22-06, 04:51 PM
I don't run red lights at a T intersection. I would run one if there were no cars at or near the intersection, though.
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Bekologist
02-22-06, 08:10 PM
I'll run T's, except if there is HEAVY fast turning traffic, or no good line beyond the light.
In a congested urban setting with T's, sometimes I'll take to the sidewalk in velopedestrian mode, to cheat any possible traffic laws and/or cop harassment regarding the intersection.
In a congested urban setting with T's, sometimes I'll take to the sidewalk in velopedestrian mode, to cheat any possible traffic laws and/or cop harassment regarding the intersection.
Tumbleweed
02-22-06, 08:42 PM
Stop signs yes. Lights, slow then go.
hester
02-24-06, 10:52 PM
t streets i slow but don't stop. the same with tiny intersections. you know, the kind that was put in just so those residential folks can leave their street once in a while...
i'm always waiting for the light at the major intersections, 'cept maybe at 2am after work on a tuesday.
stop signs i treat the same as the tiny intersections. i'll slow then go.
i'm always waiting for the light at the major intersections, 'cept maybe at 2am after work on a tuesday.
stop signs i treat the same as the tiny intersections. i'll slow then go.
Rancid
02-25-06, 12:30 AM
Sissies
I'll run a red light, a stop sign, a crosswalk....I'll run anything. NOT because I think I am better then a car, but because I know I am not as deadly as a car. Now I am sure I'll get flamed for being a bad example, being the horsemen to bring the apocalypse to advocacy but...eh I couldn't careless.
If I set the bad example and piss off a driver who takes it out on some other cyclist, its not my fault-its the cager's for having no control. If not half the murders in the country could be dismissed for being enraged inthe past by someone else.
So I say, run the T...feel the adrenaline.
I'll run a red light, a stop sign, a crosswalk....I'll run anything. NOT because I think I am better then a car, but because I know I am not as deadly as a car. Now I am sure I'll get flamed for being a bad example, being the horsemen to bring the apocalypse to advocacy but...eh I couldn't careless.
If I set the bad example and piss off a driver who takes it out on some other cyclist, its not my fault-its the cager's for having no control. If not half the murders in the country could be dismissed for being enraged inthe past by someone else.
So I say, run the T...feel the adrenaline.
bikingshearer
02-25-06, 12:42 AM
Sissies
I'll run a red light, a stop sign, a crosswalk....I'll run anything. NOT because I think I am better then a car, but because I know I am not as deadly as a car. Now I am sure I'll get flamed for being a bad example, being the horsemen to bring the apocalypse to advocacy but...eh I couldn't careless.
If I set the bad example and piss off a driver who takes it out on some other cyclist, its not my fault-its the cager's for having no control. If not half the murders in the country could be dismissed for being enraged inthe past by someone else.
So I say, run the T...feel the adrenaline.
I really hope you're yanking our collective chains. If you're not . . . . well, let's just say I am thinking a whole bunch of thoughts about you that likely would get me banned from BF if I printed them. An attitude like yours makes me wish that you would take up some other activity. If you really believe what you wrote, you are certainly no friend to any other cyclist out there.
I'll run a red light, a stop sign, a crosswalk....I'll run anything. NOT because I think I am better then a car, but because I know I am not as deadly as a car. Now I am sure I'll get flamed for being a bad example, being the horsemen to bring the apocalypse to advocacy but...eh I couldn't careless.
If I set the bad example and piss off a driver who takes it out on some other cyclist, its not my fault-its the cager's for having no control. If not half the murders in the country could be dismissed for being enraged inthe past by someone else.
So I say, run the T...feel the adrenaline.
I really hope you're yanking our collective chains. If you're not . . . . well, let's just say I am thinking a whole bunch of thoughts about you that likely would get me banned from BF if I printed them. An attitude like yours makes me wish that you would take up some other activity. If you really believe what you wrote, you are certainly no friend to any other cyclist out there.
Rancid
02-25-06, 12:49 AM
I really hope you're yanking our collective chains. If you're not . . . . well, let's just say I am thinking a whole bunch of thoughts about you that likely would get me banned from BF if I printed them. An attitude like yours makes me wish that you would take up some other activity. If you really believe what you wrote, you are certainly no friend to any other cyclist out there.
haha easy there...it was a joke....mostly. At 3AM I'll do a slow down but one put a foot down at the one light I pass on the way home-if there is no traffic, which is all the time besides that I'm a VC pimp
haha easy there...it was a joke....mostly. At 3AM I'll do a slow down but one put a foot down at the one light I pass on the way home-if there is no traffic, which is all the time besides that I'm a VC pimp
bikingshearer
02-25-06, 01:00 AM
As I stated in my post, I never interfere with traffic when I run a red light. As far as the rest of traffic is concerned, I wasn't there.
Although you are correct as far as not interfering with other traffic, I think you're missing a larger point. We, as cyclists, are sharing the road with other vehicles that outweigh us and, more importantly, outnumber us. Running lights or stop signs, even at T-intersections, is most likely going to be done in full view of at least one, and likely more, people in cars.
Now it is not likely that you are going to tick off a driver to the point of running you or some other cyclist off the road or worse for your behavior (although you can't say it never happens). Far more likely is ticking off one or more drivers into to being anti-cyclist in general. That can manifest itself in a number of ways, subtle and not so subtle, that can and will directly and negatively impact on us all. Things like increasing insensitivity to bicycles in traffic planning decisions. Things like drivers being less likely to observe the little courtesies that make riding safer and more enjoyable. And, if we tick off enough drivers badly enough, perhaps being the catalyst that starts a movement that amends a state's vehicle laws to restrict where we can ride.
Doomsday scenario? Yes. Will that really happen? Probably not. But why make it harder to coexist with vehicles (and their operators) who do outweigh us on the road and can easily out-muscle us politically if we motivate them to want to? All for the sake of spending slightly more time at an intersection? Hardly worth it, in my view.
Although you are correct as far as not interfering with other traffic, I think you're missing a larger point. We, as cyclists, are sharing the road with other vehicles that outweigh us and, more importantly, outnumber us. Running lights or stop signs, even at T-intersections, is most likely going to be done in full view of at least one, and likely more, people in cars.
Now it is not likely that you are going to tick off a driver to the point of running you or some other cyclist off the road or worse for your behavior (although you can't say it never happens). Far more likely is ticking off one or more drivers into to being anti-cyclist in general. That can manifest itself in a number of ways, subtle and not so subtle, that can and will directly and negatively impact on us all. Things like increasing insensitivity to bicycles in traffic planning decisions. Things like drivers being less likely to observe the little courtesies that make riding safer and more enjoyable. And, if we tick off enough drivers badly enough, perhaps being the catalyst that starts a movement that amends a state's vehicle laws to restrict where we can ride.
Doomsday scenario? Yes. Will that really happen? Probably not. But why make it harder to coexist with vehicles (and their operators) who do outweigh us on the road and can easily out-muscle us politically if we motivate them to want to? All for the sake of spending slightly more time at an intersection? Hardly worth it, in my view.
bikingshearer
02-25-06, 01:03 AM
haha easy there...it was a joke....mostly.
I was hoping you'd say that. :) I'd hate to think a fellow BF'er would be the one trying to encourage a PO'd cager to turn me into an asphalt-backed Rohrschach test and my pretty Paramount into an abstract sculpture.
I was hoping you'd say that. :) I'd hate to think a fellow BF'er would be the one trying to encourage a PO'd cager to turn me into an asphalt-backed Rohrschach test and my pretty Paramount into an abstract sculpture.
TexasGuy
02-25-06, 07:38 AM
T-Intersection that I don't have to cross and have a shoulder yes. No shoulder ore a T-Intersection that I do have to cross no.
Just gotta be smart :)
Just gotta be smart :)
-=Łem in Pa=-
02-25-06, 08:17 AM
I jump up on the sidwalk to get around them.
The only problem I have ever had is that sometimes
peds dont move out of my way fast enuff even after
yelling to them to move beforehand.
The only problem I have ever had is that sometimes
peds dont move out of my way fast enuff even after
yelling to them to move beforehand.
TexasGuy
02-25-06, 08:22 AM
I jump up on the sidwalk to get around them.
The only problem I have ever had is that sometimes
peds dont move out of my way fast enuff even after
yelling to them to move beforehand.
See if I can't make it without inconveniencing other people then I will come to a stop. I also don't bunny hope sidewalks, but perhaps you can do this if you're not on a road bike. I've tried to bunny hop a sidewalk twice on my road bike with no luck and the road rash to speak for it.
The only problem I have ever had is that sometimes
peds dont move out of my way fast enuff even after
yelling to them to move beforehand.
See if I can't make it without inconveniencing other people then I will come to a stop. I also don't bunny hope sidewalks, but perhaps you can do this if you're not on a road bike. I've tried to bunny hop a sidewalk twice on my road bike with no luck and the road rash to speak for it.
San Rensho
02-25-06, 11:37 AM
Although you are correct as far as not interfering with other traffic, I think you're missing a larger point. We, as cyclists, are sharing the road with other vehicles that outweigh us and, more importantly, outnumber us. Running lights or stop signs, even at T-intersections, is most likely going to be done in full view of at least one, and likely more, people in cars.
Now it is not likely that you are going to tick off a driver to the point of running you or some other cyclist off the road or worse for your behavior (although you can't say it never happens). Far more likely is ticking off one or more drivers into to being anti-cyclist in general. That can manifest itself in a number of ways, subtle and not so subtle, that can and will directly and negatively impact on us all. Things like increasing insensitivity to bicycles in traffic planning decisions. Things like drivers being less likely to observe the little courtesies that make riding safer and more enjoyable. And, if we tick off enough drivers badly enough, perhaps being the catalyst that starts a movement that amends a state's vehicle laws to restrict where we can ride.
Doomsday scenario? Yes. Will that really happen? Probably not. But why make it harder to coexist with vehicles (and their operators) who do outweigh us on the road and can easily out-muscle us politically if we motivate them to want to? All for the sake of spending slightly more time at an intersection? Hardly worth it, in my view.
I understand your point, that I am giving all cyclists a bad name by not slavishly adhering to all the rules of the road, making drivers resent cyclists and therefore, making it more dangerous for all cyclists. But I humbly take issue.
Car drivers already resent cyclists. Let me give you an example. Yesterday morning, I got on my 3 speed to go buy a paper, around 7:30, not rush hour yet, but some people on thier way to work. I turn left onto a 2 way street, spd limit 25mph, and proceed to a stop sign that is about 200m away. Going in the same direction as me is a pick up that was 300-400 m behind when I turned onto the street. I hear him accelerate as hard as he can to try to get past me. The classic "he's in a big hurry to stop". I take my entire lane and I am also accelerating (those old 3 spds are actually pretty efficient). He gets into the oncomming traffic lane and tries to pass me. He can't and we both get to the stop sign at the same time, with him in the oncoming lane! I say WTF rather loudly and he makes the point of stopping, rolling down his window and yelling "get the F*** off the street."
Thats the attitude of too many car drivers. There are simply lots of idiots like that guy, who are just crazy, or ***holes, or didn't get enough attention from their parents, who are cowards and will take it out on the less powerful, in this case cyclists. Someone like that is not going to miraculously change his driving habits and attitude towards cyclists because he sees a cyclist or two slavishly obeying all the rules.
I will continue to ride the way I ride, not interfering with anyone but at the same time not slavishly adhering to traffic laws because it is the safest way I have found to bike.
Now it is not likely that you are going to tick off a driver to the point of running you or some other cyclist off the road or worse for your behavior (although you can't say it never happens). Far more likely is ticking off one or more drivers into to being anti-cyclist in general. That can manifest itself in a number of ways, subtle and not so subtle, that can and will directly and negatively impact on us all. Things like increasing insensitivity to bicycles in traffic planning decisions. Things like drivers being less likely to observe the little courtesies that make riding safer and more enjoyable. And, if we tick off enough drivers badly enough, perhaps being the catalyst that starts a movement that amends a state's vehicle laws to restrict where we can ride.
Doomsday scenario? Yes. Will that really happen? Probably not. But why make it harder to coexist with vehicles (and their operators) who do outweigh us on the road and can easily out-muscle us politically if we motivate them to want to? All for the sake of spending slightly more time at an intersection? Hardly worth it, in my view.
I understand your point, that I am giving all cyclists a bad name by not slavishly adhering to all the rules of the road, making drivers resent cyclists and therefore, making it more dangerous for all cyclists. But I humbly take issue.
Car drivers already resent cyclists. Let me give you an example. Yesterday morning, I got on my 3 speed to go buy a paper, around 7:30, not rush hour yet, but some people on thier way to work. I turn left onto a 2 way street, spd limit 25mph, and proceed to a stop sign that is about 200m away. Going in the same direction as me is a pick up that was 300-400 m behind when I turned onto the street. I hear him accelerate as hard as he can to try to get past me. The classic "he's in a big hurry to stop". I take my entire lane and I am also accelerating (those old 3 spds are actually pretty efficient). He gets into the oncomming traffic lane and tries to pass me. He can't and we both get to the stop sign at the same time, with him in the oncoming lane! I say WTF rather loudly and he makes the point of stopping, rolling down his window and yelling "get the F*** off the street."
Thats the attitude of too many car drivers. There are simply lots of idiots like that guy, who are just crazy, or ***holes, or didn't get enough attention from their parents, who are cowards and will take it out on the less powerful, in this case cyclists. Someone like that is not going to miraculously change his driving habits and attitude towards cyclists because he sees a cyclist or two slavishly obeying all the rules.
I will continue to ride the way I ride, not interfering with anyone but at the same time not slavishly adhering to traffic laws because it is the safest way I have found to bike.
chephy
02-25-06, 12:05 PM
Are people in the forum just more law-abiding than the average guy on the street, or what? Of course they are. Haven't you noticed? Does that surprise you?
Those cyclists I see every day, travelling on the wrong side of the street, blowing through red lights and stop signs even when there IS traffic present, riding on sidewalks scaring the hell out of pedestrians etc. etc. etc. - such people don't visit biking forums, you know...
Those cyclists I see every day, travelling on the wrong side of the street, blowing through red lights and stop signs even when there IS traffic present, riding on sidewalks scaring the hell out of pedestrians etc. etc. etc. - such people don't visit biking forums, you know...
chephy
02-25-06, 12:14 PM
There are simply lots of idiots like that guy, who are just crazy, or ***holes, or didn't get enough attention from their parents, who are cowards and will take it out on the less powerful, in this case cyclists. Someone like that is not going to miraculously change his driving habits and attitude towards cyclists because he sees a cyclist or two slavishly obeying all the rules. I agree. Someone like THAT won't change no matter what you do, almost. But lots of car drivers aren't like that, and they still resent cyclists because they are misinformed about cycling and because they see a lot of bad cyclists around. I take a look at my own parents and their friends, for example. They are not bad people. But when I am in a car with them, and they see a cyclist, they get all confused. They just don't know how to behave around one! And I can't blame them, cause most cyclists around here ride like total morons. Well, some do anyway, and lots of others ride sort of ok, but still make tons of cycling errors due to inexperience, wrong assumptions about cycling and what not... By riding properly I believe I can show such people how cyclists are supposed to behave; I hope car drivers will see familiar patterns and understand my behaviour. I hope they will also understand that not all cyclists are crazed lunatics or people who have no idea what they are doing.
onyourbike
02-25-06, 12:19 PM
red = stop
bikingshearer
02-25-06, 12:37 PM
Thats the attitude of too many car drivers. There are simply lots of idiots like that guy, who are just crazy, or ***holes, or didn't get enough attention from their parents, who are cowards and will take it out on the less powerful, in this case cyclists. Someone like that is not going to miraculously change his driving habits and attitude towards cyclists because he sees a cyclist or two slavishly obeying all the rules.
I will continue to ride the way I ride, not interfering with anyone but at the same time not slavishly adhering to traffic laws because it is the safest way I have found to bike.
I understand your point as well. The type you describe will never be our road buddies. Some of the clueless-but-not-malicious types are probably beyond hope as well. But isn't a good idea to do what we reasonably can (like obeying traffic laws) to keep from ratcheting any driver's feelings up a notch on the anti-bike meter? I think so.
In the case of your guy, he's always going wonder what the **** a bike is doing on "his" road. But I think it is better to try to keep him as a low-level jerk - hollering, swearing, the sort of thing that doesn't get anyone hurt - rather than agitating him into running someone off the road. (By the way, I'm not saying you did anything wrong in your encounter - I'm just using your guy as an example.)
Take another scenario - the placid, well-mannered although occasionally clueless typical suburban driver. Odds are that person goes in with no particular feelings about bikes on the road one way or the other. Now imagine what their thoughts after seeing bike after bike over time appearing to ignore stop signs, stop lights, and various traffic regulations. Now imagine that a bike advocacy group is trying to get your county/town/city to make its roads more bike-friendly, or a club is trying to put on a race, or a charity wants to put on an event ride - whatever you can think of that involves cyclists needing something from the gov't in order to do something that cyclists like to do. It seems to me that we want those drivers to be supportive or open-minded, or at the very worst neutral. I don't think it makes sense for us as a group to engage in behavior that will turn a potential supporter neutral or a neutral person into an opponent.
As for "slavishly" following traffic laws, I agree that there are times when you simply can't. The obvious example is the stop light that is trafic-triggered but will not respond to bikes, and there are no cars going you way to trigger it. In that case, you pretty much have to run the light. Somewhere between that extreme at one end and ignoring all traffic laws at the other end is a huge grey area where reasonable minds can differ. (My personal bette noir is stop signs in the middle of a hill, up or down. They drive me nuts and sorely test my principles - and my principles fail more often than I'd like to admit. :o )
I guess I would ask other readers of this string not to agree with my conclusions (although you are certainly welcome to do so :) ), but instead to think about the longer-term potential consequences of the decisions you make while riding and be guided by that (as you clearly are doing, San Rensho), as opposed to going with knee-jerk reactions of whatever kind.
I will continue to ride the way I ride, not interfering with anyone but at the same time not slavishly adhering to traffic laws because it is the safest way I have found to bike.
I understand your point as well. The type you describe will never be our road buddies. Some of the clueless-but-not-malicious types are probably beyond hope as well. But isn't a good idea to do what we reasonably can (like obeying traffic laws) to keep from ratcheting any driver's feelings up a notch on the anti-bike meter? I think so.
In the case of your guy, he's always going wonder what the **** a bike is doing on "his" road. But I think it is better to try to keep him as a low-level jerk - hollering, swearing, the sort of thing that doesn't get anyone hurt - rather than agitating him into running someone off the road. (By the way, I'm not saying you did anything wrong in your encounter - I'm just using your guy as an example.)
Take another scenario - the placid, well-mannered although occasionally clueless typical suburban driver. Odds are that person goes in with no particular feelings about bikes on the road one way or the other. Now imagine what their thoughts after seeing bike after bike over time appearing to ignore stop signs, stop lights, and various traffic regulations. Now imagine that a bike advocacy group is trying to get your county/town/city to make its roads more bike-friendly, or a club is trying to put on a race, or a charity wants to put on an event ride - whatever you can think of that involves cyclists needing something from the gov't in order to do something that cyclists like to do. It seems to me that we want those drivers to be supportive or open-minded, or at the very worst neutral. I don't think it makes sense for us as a group to engage in behavior that will turn a potential supporter neutral or a neutral person into an opponent.
As for "slavishly" following traffic laws, I agree that there are times when you simply can't. The obvious example is the stop light that is trafic-triggered but will not respond to bikes, and there are no cars going you way to trigger it. In that case, you pretty much have to run the light. Somewhere between that extreme at one end and ignoring all traffic laws at the other end is a huge grey area where reasonable minds can differ. (My personal bette noir is stop signs in the middle of a hill, up or down. They drive me nuts and sorely test my principles - and my principles fail more often than I'd like to admit. :o )
I guess I would ask other readers of this string not to agree with my conclusions (although you are certainly welcome to do so :) ), but instead to think about the longer-term potential consequences of the decisions you make while riding and be guided by that (as you clearly are doing, San Rensho), as opposed to going with knee-jerk reactions of whatever kind.
San Rensho
02-25-06, 03:30 PM
I understand your point as well. The type you describe will never be our road buddies. Some of the clueless-but-not-malicious types are probably beyond hope as well. But isn't a good idea to do what we reasonably can (like obeying traffic laws) to keep from ratcheting any driver's feelings up a notch on the anti-bike meter? I think so.
In the case of your guy, he's always going wonder what the **** a bike is doing on "his" road. But I think it is better to try to keep him as a low-level jerk - hollering, swearing, the sort of thing that doesn't get anyone hurt - rather than agitating him into running someone off the road. (By the way, I'm not saying you did anything wrong in your encounter - I'm just using your guy as an example.)
Take another scenario - the placid, well-mannered although occasionally clueless typical suburban driver. Odds are that person goes in with no particular feelings about bikes on the road one way or the other. Now imagine what their thoughts after seeing bike after bike over time appearing to ignore stop signs, stop lights, and various traffic regulations. Now imagine that a bike advocacy group is trying to get your county/town/city to make its roads more bike-friendly, or a club is trying to put on a race, or a charity wants to put on an event ride - whatever you can think of that involves cyclists needing something from the gov't in order to do something that cyclists like to do. It seems to me that we want those drivers to be supportive or open-minded, or at the very worst neutral. I don't think it makes sense for us as a group to engage in behavior that will turn a potential supporter neutral or a neutral person into an opponent.
As for "slavishly" following traffic laws, I agree that there are times when you simply can't. The obvious example is the stop light that is trafic-triggered but will not respond to bikes, and there are no cars going you way to trigger it. In that case, you pretty much have to run the light. Somewhere between that extreme at one end and ignoring all traffic laws at the other end is a huge grey area where reasonable minds can differ. (My personal bette noir is stop signs in the middle of a hill, up or down. They drive me nuts and sorely test my principles - and my principles fail more often than I'd like to admit. :o )
I guess I would ask other readers of this string not to agree with my conclusions (although you are certainly welcome to do so :) ), but instead to think about the longer-term potential consequences of the decisions you make while riding and be guided by that (as you clearly are doing, San Rensho), as opposed to going with knee-jerk reactions of whatever kind.
I agree with your point, that people's bad experiences with bikes will negatively influence their decisions in supporting bicycling issues. But those people will likely not remember people like me, who yes, blatantly run lights right in front of them. For a fleeting moment they may say "hey, you can't do that", but when they see I haven't interfered with their driving or anyone elses, they won't give it a second thought.
They will, however, remember the guy on the bike that they almost hit, because after they made a left hand turn, a bicyclist was coming right at them going the wrong way down the street, or the bicyclist racing on the sidewalk that almost hit them or their child as they emerged from a store to the sidewalk.
These are the bicyclists that drivers will remember and the bicyclists that safely disregard minor traffic rules will not be what sways their opinions.
In the case of your guy, he's always going wonder what the **** a bike is doing on "his" road. But I think it is better to try to keep him as a low-level jerk - hollering, swearing, the sort of thing that doesn't get anyone hurt - rather than agitating him into running someone off the road. (By the way, I'm not saying you did anything wrong in your encounter - I'm just using your guy as an example.)
Take another scenario - the placid, well-mannered although occasionally clueless typical suburban driver. Odds are that person goes in with no particular feelings about bikes on the road one way or the other. Now imagine what their thoughts after seeing bike after bike over time appearing to ignore stop signs, stop lights, and various traffic regulations. Now imagine that a bike advocacy group is trying to get your county/town/city to make its roads more bike-friendly, or a club is trying to put on a race, or a charity wants to put on an event ride - whatever you can think of that involves cyclists needing something from the gov't in order to do something that cyclists like to do. It seems to me that we want those drivers to be supportive or open-minded, or at the very worst neutral. I don't think it makes sense for us as a group to engage in behavior that will turn a potential supporter neutral or a neutral person into an opponent.
As for "slavishly" following traffic laws, I agree that there are times when you simply can't. The obvious example is the stop light that is trafic-triggered but will not respond to bikes, and there are no cars going you way to trigger it. In that case, you pretty much have to run the light. Somewhere between that extreme at one end and ignoring all traffic laws at the other end is a huge grey area where reasonable minds can differ. (My personal bette noir is stop signs in the middle of a hill, up or down. They drive me nuts and sorely test my principles - and my principles fail more often than I'd like to admit. :o )
I guess I would ask other readers of this string not to agree with my conclusions (although you are certainly welcome to do so :) ), but instead to think about the longer-term potential consequences of the decisions you make while riding and be guided by that (as you clearly are doing, San Rensho), as opposed to going with knee-jerk reactions of whatever kind.
I agree with your point, that people's bad experiences with bikes will negatively influence their decisions in supporting bicycling issues. But those people will likely not remember people like me, who yes, blatantly run lights right in front of them. For a fleeting moment they may say "hey, you can't do that", but when they see I haven't interfered with their driving or anyone elses, they won't give it a second thought.
They will, however, remember the guy on the bike that they almost hit, because after they made a left hand turn, a bicyclist was coming right at them going the wrong way down the street, or the bicyclist racing on the sidewalk that almost hit them or their child as they emerged from a store to the sidewalk.
These are the bicyclists that drivers will remember and the bicyclists that safely disregard minor traffic rules will not be what sways their opinions.
-=Łem in Pa=-
02-25-06, 03:41 PM
^^^^ I think car drivers are conditioned to expect bike riders to
do undesirable stuff. Anybody on this forum, regardless of what
your opinion on VC is, is probably going to be a responsible rider and
not offend anyone unless your are one of those militant roadie clubbers.
On my commute home in the afternoon I see all manner of recreational
riders (bad term?)....little kids, bum bikers etc, riding the wrong way, on
sidewalks, running stop signs etc...this is the stuff I personally believe
car drivers are conditioned to . There is nothing I am going to do, despite
my best efforts to be diplomatic, that is going to change a motorist mind
about bikes against all the negligent stuff they see. I wouldnt begin to
flatter myself thinking so. I am going to continue ride in the manner that has
been most efficient and least problematic for me for decades.
Go where I want to go but stay out of everybodies way.
do undesirable stuff. Anybody on this forum, regardless of what
your opinion on VC is, is probably going to be a responsible rider and
not offend anyone unless your are one of those militant roadie clubbers.
On my commute home in the afternoon I see all manner of recreational
riders (bad term?)....little kids, bum bikers etc, riding the wrong way, on
sidewalks, running stop signs etc...this is the stuff I personally believe
car drivers are conditioned to . There is nothing I am going to do, despite
my best efforts to be diplomatic, that is going to change a motorist mind
about bikes against all the negligent stuff they see. I wouldnt begin to
flatter myself thinking so. I am going to continue ride in the manner that has
been most efficient and least problematic for me for decades.
Go where I want to go but stay out of everybodies way.
Bikepacker67
02-25-06, 04:11 PM
There are a few red lights that I do run (only after stopping first!)
But that's because the damn things don't register my being here, and leave the more busy road, green.
But that's because the damn things don't register my being here, and leave the more busy road, green.
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