The other day I was watching the news and they had a segment on beef. Turns out alot of supermarket beef has dye in it to make it red so people will buy it. It seems the FDA has no problem with it?! They say looks has nothing to do with quality of the beef and shouldn't be used to determine its quality! The news then talked with a butcher at a supermarket who like the idea! because people were buying cuts of meat they usually wouldn't try. Am I the only one who feels that this is terrible? I just don't understand how they can talk about it like its not a big deal. They also showed a comparison of two different slices of meat one normal cut and another with the dye, the normal cut had the early aging(slight browning) while the dyed look like someone just took a hatchet to a cow. They justified it by saying you should go by the expiration date. I just think this is bs what do you all think?

Not just dye, they are also injecting with CO2 to give meat red color for weeks.

That's gross.

Its crap.
And anothe reason why organic beef has been increasing by 20% a year. And natural beef is increasing at a similar rate, and soon will get its own certification so that the term 'natural' actually means something.

People are getting tired of getting lied to and companies relying on fooling tactics to get you to buy their products. Those who never educate themselves into food wont ever know about the dye. But those who try to learn about their food will most likely switch to a higher priced, but less chemical infested brand, but usually only if its convenient enough and not priced too much higher.

Just like farmed salmon, they put red dye in the feed so the salmon comes out red instead of grey. In fact, farmed salmon from scotland is so bad these days its recomended to only have no more than 3 servings a year.

to me the red dyed meat just doesn't look right. the appeal is lost on me. it's obviously been modified to look like that so i tend to stay away. i cut way down on meat, and when i do buy it, i buy certified organic. it's more money, but it tastes a lot better.

Not just dye, they are also injecting with CO2 to give meat red color for weeks.



I recently read that Kroger has decided to stop using CO (carbon monoxide) (http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/114058053751370.xml&coll=7) to give meat that deceptively fresh look.

It seems backwards that ground beef should look pink and fresh on the outside and not quite so pink and fresh on the inside. After all the outside is exposed to the air. If you've ever had the butcher run meat through the grinder (or ground your own) you'd see that in the ordinary course of things, it is the outside, not the inside that turns brown.

Its sad really, I have worked as chef and sous chef in several restaurants. And the meat that we would get delivered and trim in house didn't look as red as the stuff in the market. As for the farm raised salmon that stuff is just aweful, its truly amazing the stuff they get away with in the food industry

Ugh...yes, I've progressively gone towards wild and organic-type meats.

Here's a news flash: The oranges are also dyed, the apples have a wax coating, and the bananas have been gassed with ethylene to speed their ripening.

There's food grade dyes in many foods, including soda and sports drink. So, there's nothing new here and no reason to be alarmed. So long as the meat is handled correctly and the store doesn't relabel old meat (can you say, "Food Lion"?) it's not an issue.

Here's a news flash: The oranges are also dyed, the apples have a wax coating, and the bananas have been gassed with ethylene to speed their ripening.

There's food grade dyes in many foods, including soda and sports drink. So, there's nothing new here and no reason to be alarmed. So long as the meat is handled correctly and the store doesn't relabel old meat (can you say, "Food Lion"?) it's not an issue.

Its definately an issue, manipulating food should not be legal. The US needs to adopt some some regulations Europe has put in place, they take their food much more serious than us (not overweight either, any correlation?)
It is too bad we can not make steak tartar (raw ground beef with raw egg) like they do in france, it would be asking for trouble over here. Unless that is you were to get some good fresh farm raised organic free range...etc etc beef. I go out of my way to get this fresh beef, but we shouldnt have to, it should be available to the general public at a reasonable price-

The red dye is just the half of it. The feed lots of these big commerical agra farms are awful, hundreds of cattle penned together living in the own ####. They develop cuts and abrasions and disease follows, to keep disease under control their fed doses of Antibiotics which is also used as a growth enhancer as well as steriods. The USDA allows the feeding of sawdust, plastic chips, industrial waste, cement dust and dead animal parts to commerically raised animals. This causes the animals to pack on tremendous amounts of fat and more weight means more money. You say how? because the food manufactures have some pretty powerful and well funded lobbists in Washington these days. As Jarery stated organic beef sales is increasing 20% each year, there's a reason why.

CO is used even more often in seafood. Given my location I've learned to ask when buying: Is it fresh-frozen or treated with CO? No way in heck I can get sashimi tuna steak fresh without going to Oceanaire and paying $$$ this far from the coast.

BTW: CO isn't a dye and it isn't really a bad thing--except--when used to mask a products LACK of edible freshness. It's just another way the market is addressing consumer ignorance.

Ugh...yes, I've progressively gone towards wild and organic-type meats.


What are you talkiing about? You can't buy wild meat.
You have to kill it yourself?
Is that what you do?

The USDA allows the feeding of sawdust, plastic chips, industrial waste, cement dust and dead animal parts to commerically raised animals. This causes the animals to pack on tremendous amounts of fat and more weight means more money.

Could you elaborate on how plastic chips, industrial waste, and cement dust allow an animal to put on fat? I can understand sawdust since cows have the enzymes necessary to break down cellulose (we don't) and see nothing morally wrong with that. Spent barley husks from brewery mash is another cellulose-laden "waste" product fed to cattle. I can also see how dead animal parts would put on fat. Come to think of it, a filet mignon is also a dead animal part. Dog food is full of dead animal parts as well, but neither my dog, nor I mind her eating it.

Plastic and cement dust would seemingly be inert and simply pass through the animal's digestive track with no benefit or detriment. Industrial waste is a vague term. Sawdust and barley husks could be considered industrial waste. Do you have any specific waste products in mind?

Could you elaborate on how plastic chips, industrial waste, and cement dust allow an animal to put on fat? I can understand sawdust since cows have the enzymes necessary to break down cellulose (we don't) and see nothing morally wrong with that. Spent barley husks from brewery mash is another cellulose-laden "waste" product fed to cattle. I can also see how dead animal parts would put on fat. Come to think of it, a filet mignon is also a dead animal part. Dog food is full of dead animal parts as well, but neither my dog, nor I mind her eating it.

Plastic and cement dust would seemingly be inert and simply pass through the animal's digestive track with no benefit or detriment. Industrial waste is a vague term. Sawdust and barley husks could be considered industrial waste. Do you have any specific waste products in mind?


I wouldn't expect any REAL answers..

Umm, It's not natural, someone said so...mm'kay?

Could you elaborate on how plastic chips, industrial waste, and cement dust allow an animal to put on fat? I can understand sawdust since cows have the enzymes necessary to break down cellulose (we don't) and see nothing morally wrong with that. Spent barley husks from brewery mash is another cellulose-laden "waste" product fed to cattle. I can also see how dead animal parts would put on fat. Come to think of it, a filet mignon is also a dead animal part. Dog food is full of dead animal parts as well, but neither my dog, nor I mind her eating it.

Plastic and cement dust would seemingly be inert and simply pass through the animal's digestive track with no benefit or detriment. Industrial waste is a vague term. Sawdust and barley husks could be considered industrial waste. Do you have any specific waste products in mind?

I suggest reading a few publications that contain all this info. "Safe Food" by Marion Nestle who formally worked for the Food Advisory Committee and the Food and Drug Administration and is now an Academic nutritionist with New York University. She also authored the Title "Food Politics" which deals about the ways in which food companies use the political system to achieve commerical goals. "Food Fight" by Kelly Brownell PH.D is the director of Yale center for eating and weight disorders and Fast Food nation by Eric Schlosser "the dark side of the All American meal".

I suggest reading a few publications that contain all this info. "Safe Food" by Marion Nestle who formally worked for the Food Advisory Committee and the Food and Drug Administration and is now an Academic nutritionist with New York University. She also authored the Title "Food Politics" which deals about the ways in which food companies use the political system to achieve commerical goals. "Food Fight" by Kelly Brownell PH.D is the director of Yale center for eating and weight disorders and Fast Food nation by Eric Schlosser "the dark side of the All American meal".

I'll just take that as, despite your original assertion, you don't know how plastic chips, industrial waste, and cement dust allow an animal to put on fat.

The wife and I only get around 10% of our calories from meat products, so we can afford to buy organic, free-range meats.

No red dye for us!

I'll just take that as, despite your original assertion, you don't know how plastic chips, industrial waste, and cement dust allow an animal to put on fat.


And you're not gonna tell him, so THERE

The wife and I only get around 10% of our calories from meat products, so we can afford to buy organic, free-range meats.

No red dye for us!

Were the same. Our intake is low enough that the increased cost is minimal to an overall budget.

My salmon budget is higher, but no way no how am I eating that farmed stuff they sell.
The worst part is when i go to a large supermarket, the seafood section will have all these huge beautifull fillets all layed out on crushed ice. All farmed. Then off in the corner is 2 crumpled up old looking fillets, thats the wild salmon. Its no wonder people pay the 8 bucks a lb for farmed instead of 12 for wild.

An article I read awhile back went thru and examined 15 seafood stores in NYC. Was like 12 of the 15 sellign 'wild' salmon for top dollar, were all selling farmed and just relabeling it.

I think that the red dye is likely the least of your concerns. If you find that unsettling, I would avoid investigating things further or be prepared to go vegetarian or organic free-range meats exclusive.

If you have ever been to a meat or chicken processing plant, it is not something you will easily forget. I have nothing against eating meat (as a matter of disclosure I am a vegetarian, but out of habit from my upbringing rather than deep conviction), but the shear amount of meat that we eat as a country encourages some pretty crazy stuff in the industrial scale farms.

, but the shear amount of meat that we eat as a country encourages some pretty crazy stuff in the industrial scale farms.


It's not how much meat we eat necessarily, it's the greed, and how much meat sellers will sacrifice to make more money when they sell it.

I agree. I try to avoid meats unless they are free-range/organic. I try to do the same with all the foods.

I'll just take that as, despite your original assertion, you don't know how plastic chips, industrial waste, and cement dust allow an animal to put on fat.

When Animals or humans ingest toxic substances the body attempts to store these substances in the fat as to wall off toxins away from the nervous system and the vital organs. Many of these products are added to the grain or feed the animals ingest.

The majority of the red meat my family and I eat is venison, (yes I kill it, and butcher it too). Much healthier and I like knowing where the food I'm eating is coming from, (at least the meat). Not claiming to be an expert, just my .02

I had the salmon numbers from memory wrong. It was 8 stores checked, and only 1 being real wild salmon, the others were all farmed. But the prices were as high as $29.00 / lb for the $4.00/lb farmed fish.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/10/dining/10salmon.html?ex=1270785600&en=a7a7549b02503c97&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

When Animals or humans ingest toxic substances the body attempts to store these substances in the fat as to wall off toxins away from the nervous system and the vital organs. Many of these products are added to the grain or feed the animals ingest.

Here's a curious thing I found. An Austrailian government site (http://www.agric.nsw.gov.au/reader/choosing-feeds/dai10.htm) describes how to make protein blocks for cattle. Kind of like a slt lick, but for protein. The instructions called for mixing the ingredients with cement before pouring into a mold. The cement serves two purposes. It hardens the block, of course, but it also provides needed calcium for the cattle. Cement is comprised of calcium, silicon, and aluminum.

So, based on that, I would say that the use of cement in cattle feed is probably not part of some evil conspiracy, but simply a way to provide a necessary mineral to the animal. Hardly toxic.

Sawdust is almost certainly not toxic to cattle, especially since they have the enzimes to break down cellulose. It probably sounds liks a cruel practice to most of the public since we humans would not consider eating sawdust ourselves and don't think of it as food. Normally, a cow could probably not eat wood as they probably cannot chew it enough to break it down. But, as sawdust, it may be fine enough particle size that it can be digested. I'm admittedly guessing here, but since corn stalks, hay, and barley husks are fed to cows, sawdust seems plausible.

I still am confused about feeding plastic chips since I would expect most plastics would simply pass through the cow's digestion. Perhaps you have some details on this practice?

Industrial waste is such a broad category that it's impossible to address it with any specifics. The term conjures up visions of chemical factories secretly disposing their most toxic waste products by slipping them into cattle feed and poisoning the unsuspecting public. Something tells me that the truth is far less sinister than that. Virtually anything that is a leftover from an industrial plant, like barley husks from a brewery, could be labeled "industrial waste" and used for fear mongering.

Here's a curious thing I found. An Austrailian government site (http://www.agric.nsw.gov.au/reader/choosing-feeds/dai10.htm) describes how to make protein blocks for cattle. Kind of like a slt lick, but for protein. The instructions called for mixing the ingredients with cement before pouring into a mold. The cement serves two purposes. It hardens the block, of course, but it also provides needed calcium for the cattle. Cement is comprised of calcium, silicon, and aluminum.

So, based on that, I would say that the use of cement in cattle feed is probably not part of some evil conspiracy, but simply a way to provide a necessary mineral to the animal. Hardly toxic.

Sawdust is almost certainly not toxic to cattle, especially since they have the enzimes to break down cellulose. It probably sounds liks a cruel practice to most of the public since we humans would not consider eating sawdust ourselves and don't think of it as food. Normally, a cow could probably not eat wood as they probably cannot chew it enough to break it down. But, as sawdust, it may be fine enough particle size that it can be digested. I'm admittedly guessing here, but since corn stalks, hay, and barley husks are fed to cows, sawdust seems plausible.

I still am confused about feeding plastic chips since I would expect most plastics would simply pass through the cow's digestion. Perhaps you have some details on this practice?

Industrial waste is such a broad category that it's impossible to address it with any specifics. The term conjures up visions of chemical factories secretly disposing their most toxic waste products by slipping them into cattle feed and poisoning the unsuspecting public. Something tells me that the truth is far less sinister than that. Virtually anything that is a leftover from an industrial plant, like barley husks from a brewery, could be labeled "industrial waste" and used for fear mongering.

This can go back and forth or you could just read the books I've suggested as these authors are far more educated on the matter than most considering they've been "connected" within the industry.

It's not how much meat we eat necessarily, it's the greed, and how much meat sellers will sacrifice to make more money when they sell it.

Is it all about the greed of the producers? To those who are prepared to spend good money, food of a better quality is obtainable.

If consumers did not make a market for cheaper, cosmetically manipulated, mass produced meat from drugged animals raised in inhumane condition there would be nobody there to supply the non-existent demand.

We have several major beef packers and producers in our area, & I know there aren't any feedlots that feed plastic chips or dead animal parts (can u say illegal) to the cattle.

Most of the feedlots have a consulting nutritionist to formulize the rations fed to the cattle.

would you just tell us ya lazy ass? i mean... if you're gonna tell us it exists you could at least elaborate on its existance... i don't wanna buy some damn book either... at least link a web site.

Lazy ass? What a novel idea it would be to get off your keyboard and read.

The red dye is just the half of it. The feed lots of these big commerical agra farms are awful, hundreds of cattle penned together living in the own ####. They develop cuts and abrasions and disease follows, to keep disease under control their fed doses of Antibiotics which is also used as a growth enhancer as well as steriods. The USDA allows the feeding of sawdust, plastic chips, industrial waste, cement dust and dead animal parts to commerically raised animals. This causes the animals to pack on tremendous amounts of fat and more weight means more money. You say how? because the food manufactures have some pretty powerful and well funded lobbists in Washington these days. As Jarery stated organic beef sales is increasing 20% each year, there's a reason why.


Shocker...you got flamed on this.
People who eat meat cant believe its not the great, wholesome, wonderful,
Normon Rockwellian superfood thier Moms told them it was when they where
6 or 7 years old. They cant believe that slaughterhouses and processing plants
are dirty, vile and reprehensible entities that for the most part havent changed
since the 1800's and that the happy and ethical people who run them would
never alter thier product for the sake of profit :rolleyes: .
In Puerto Rico the medical community is of the opinion that the amount of steriods in
thier meat is actually bring on young girls puberty unnaturally. I am convinced here
in America it is responsible for the lowering of intellectual capacity.
The list of carcenogenic agents, chemicals, steriods etc in your average slab of supermarket
meat probably wouldnt fit in just one 'Reply to thread' box. 'Good' or bad, why would you
want all of that in your body ??
Red Dye is the very least of your worries if you partake of meat.

This can go back and forth or you could just read the books I've suggested as these authors are far more educated on the matter than most considering they've been "connected" within the industry.

I'm hardly inclined to buy a bunch of sensationalist books just to check out your claim that sawdust, plastic chips, cement dust, industrial waste and dead animal parts allow a cow to put on fat. I'm sorry that you choose to throw out these claims but are unwilling to provide any real detail to substantiate them. That is, unfortunately, all too common among fear mongering.

I'm hardly inclined to buy a bunch of sensationalist books just to check out your claim that sawdust, plastic chips, cement dust, industrial waste and dead animal parts allow a cow to put on fat. I'm sorry that you choose to throw out these claims but are unwilling to provide any real detail to substantiate them. That is, unfortunately, all too common among fear mongering.

"Sensationalist books" I'm impressed the way you do research by Googling an internet search. I'm quite taken back someone with your esteem has no need to read books authored by people connected with the industry. Next time your in a book store, that is if your ever in one, you might want to aquaint yourself with these Authors.

Enjoy the meal....

Its definately an issue, manipulating food should not be legal. The US needs to adopt some some regulations Europe has put in place, they take their food much more serious than us (not overweight either, any correlation?)
It is too bad we can not make steak tartar (raw ground beef with raw egg) like they do in france, it would be asking for trouble over here. Unless that is you were to get some good fresh farm raised organic free range...etc etc beef. I go out of my way to get this fresh beef, but we shouldnt have to, it should be available to the general public at a reasonable price-
Interesting. In many of the restaurants we frequent, we see signs, no meat from the US or UK. US meat is not welcome for the hormones. Now red dye.
My big concern is the way US food processors have sped up the lines at meat packing plants and the ocassional reports of Americans getting sick. Poorly processed meat. And fewer inspections.
and now US beef is trying to impose their meat on Europe with WTO legal actions. Would be ok, if marked as US beef affected by growth hormones and GM. Meats from Spain are labeled as from Spain, why can US meat get away with not being labeled. Maybe we will become vegetarians.

"Sensationalist books" I'm impressed the way you do research by Googling an internet search. I'm quite taken back someone with your esteem has no need to read books authored by people connected with the industry. Next time your in a book store, that is if your ever in one, you might want to aquaint yourself with these Authors.

Enjoy the meal....

Well, if reading an Australian government web site on cattle farming is supposedly "bad" research, I guess I'm guilty. By the way, those unreliable Aussie government folks also stated that sawdust has no nutritive value to cattle but can be used as a last resort in times of drought for the roughage cattle require for their digetive system. They also stated that sawdust can be used to dilute cattle feed to avoid gorging when cattle are switched from one type of feed to another. So, it appears that sawdust is not harmful to cattle.

Had a roast beef sandwich for dinner today. It was quite tasty. Not even a hint of sawdust flavor or cement dust grit. I guess I am destined to keel over sometime in the next few hours. It's been nice...

Read "The Jungle" or "Fast Food Nation" if you want real meat factory horror stories. The worse part is that they are 110% true. I have been actively cutting out my red meat for the past couple of months now because of this kind of crap. I am not going to cut it out completely but there is going to be at least half as much in it as there once was.

When Animals or humans ingest toxic substances the body attempts to store these substances in the fat as to wall off toxins away from the nervous system and the vital organs. Many of these products are added to the grain or feed the animals ingest.

I just noticed this post and thought of something; could this be why Americans are so fat? Could our bodies be actively trying to protect themselves from all of the horrible toxic food we put into them?

This post reminds me of the news story I read about the 1000-pound man (no that is not a typo) who had to be treated for malnutrition. Just think about that for a minute.

I just noticed this post and thought of something; could this be why Americans are so fat? Could our bodies be actively trying to protect themselves from all of the horrible toxic food we put into them?

This post reminds me of the news story I read about the 1000-pound man (no that is not a typo) who had to be treated for malnutrition. Just think about that for a minute.


No, it's all the processed food. not meat.

The meat is "all processed food."

I dont think that a bit of red dye is harmful - the stuff has been used in candies for years, but I do think that the consumer is being deceived.

I usually buy the cuts of beef that are losing their red luster and have been discounted a few bucks.

I just noticed this post and thought of something; could this be why Americans are so fat? Could our bodies be actively trying to protect themselves from all of the horrible toxic food we put into them?

Interesting evaluation, that really gets deep into the science of the human body. I'd be curious to know if it has any bearing or not. It's interesting to note on average that people burn approx 350 calories a day less than we did in the 60's and prior. Between all the high calorie processed food (and the more the processing the lower the nutritional count) and less activity by society for example electric garage doors, electric car mirrors, electric windows, more esclators, video games, etc etc we've ended up where we are today with alarming obesity rates. Just to keep population obesity rates where they were decades ago we would have to be more active than back then due to the low nutrient high calorie foods we ingest.

The majority of the red meat my family and I eat is venison, (yes I kill it, and butcher it too). Much healthier and I like knowing where the food I'm eating is coming from, (at least the meat). Not claiming to be an expert, just my .02


Yea and that deer ......ate BT corn a few miles over do you really know where it has been or what it has eaten. EDIT: Sorry the BT thing is a little off base but is a point that is of concern and if you are in any of several areas in the US there is an uncertainty about CDW a "Mad Cow"/Scrapie/CJD disease of deer. A prion with unknown human transmissiblity/pathogenicity last I looked.



This whole Idea that we can control our food source will living in a city is bogus. As for the Ideal food for us it would be as close to the source as possible...straight from the garden, right from the butcher who got the cow that morning from the farmer...etc. Most food bought today has been fooled with in one way or another by man whether by chemical additives (directly or in directly), or by genetic manipulation (selective breeding, GMO, etc)

I am not going to get into the organic vs. whole/ local food vs. conventional food debate because I see validity in all cases depending on each persons/ families circumstances.

Some of the points on here are based on fear mongering by the media and are not based on science at all.

The red meat situation is not dye (or at least should not be). It is from the application of either CO (carbon monoxide) or CO2 (carbon dioxide). This process is not adding colour but rather preventing the oxygenation of the myoglobin molecules that turns the pigment from red to purplish brown.

While the modified atmosphere packaging does create concerns about not being able to tell spoilage, it also increases shelf-life of the meat because it isn't exposed to those conditions that turn it purplish-brown. This eliminates waste and gives a cheaper product for the consumers that demand it, and many do demand access to cheap meat.

For the record, only 1% of beef is treated with CO and the rest is either untreated or treated with CO2. CO2 isn't as effective at keeping the red colour, subsequently reducing the risk of the colour keeping past its safe shelf life.

On the use of ethylene and such on bananas. It is a gas that is produced naturally by all fruits and vegetables and in high amounts. Bananas, among other fruits and vegetables can be picked "unripe" and transported to their destination and treated with this natural gas that stimulates the ripening process in the bananas under controlled conditions. This is a completely safe process and should not be a concern to anyone. Again, this process eliminates waste and makes bananas available to the world instead of just tropical areas.

I won't get into the science of the BT corn as that is a whole new debate altogether.

I do advocate buying local as it is much more sustainable and is generally more fresh. I won't always say healthier but generally that is the case as well. Of course, there wouldn't be these problems if people didn't demand cheaper of everything. Like a few have said, reducing their meat consumption allowed them to afford meat that was local and that they felt was healthier or better. If they feel that way, good on them. But I do get tired of the media sensationalizing stories based on exagerated facts and poor science.