I am almost 50. I have never owned a car nor will I ever own one. I have always biked. I know that I do not contribute to the "economy". After all I do not pay gas taxes, or keep the poor insurance companies in business, or support the autoworkers. I often feel like I am some sort of freak, after all I keep my body fit so I am not a drain on our health care system, I do not contribute to our air pollution problem, and I don't drain our oil reserves so we will not be dependent on foreign countries for our energy. I do not even have a license. Here in Canada it is almost impossible to get a piece if ID without a drivers license. That one piece of paper determines whether you are an honest upstanding citizen or not. Many times I feel like a criminal or a non member of society. What has driving an automobile got to do with proving who you are. I am sure there are more people out there that feel like I do. Sorry for the rant

In most (if not all) US states one can get a state ID which is an equivalent form of ID as a DL.

For example in AZ:
http://www.dmv.org/az-arizona/id-cards.php

Al

I am almost 50. I have never owned a car nor will I ever own one. I have always biked. I know that I do not contribute to the "economy". After all I do not pay gas taxes, or keep the poor insurance companies in business, or support the autoworkers. I often feel like I am some sort of freak, after all I keep my body fit so I am not a drain on our health care system, I do not contribute to our air pollution problem, and I don't drain our oil reserves so we will not be dependent on foreign countries for our energy. I do not even have a license. Here in Canada it is almost impossible to get a piece if ID without a drivers license. That one piece of paper determines whether you are an honest upstanding citizen or not. Many times I feel like a criminal or a non member of society. What has driving an automobile got to do with proving who you are. I am sure there are more people out there that feel like I do. Sorry for the rantWhat has getting a driver's license got to do with owning or driving an automobile?

In my state "they" "offer" a "non-drivers" license. You are screwed without id. At least they can't read too many of your thoughts yet.

What about a passport?
http://www.pptc.gc.ca/online_forms/on-line_form_e.aspDocuments required
Your proof of Canadian citizenship document.
At least one document to support your identity that contains your name and signature.
Information required
Where you have lived during the past two years (addresses and dates).
Where you worked or studied during the past two years (including addresses and phone numbers).
Two personal references and an emergency contact person (including addresses and contact information).

I guess that you'll need a picture as well:
http://www.pptc.gc.ca/passports/get_photo_specs_e.asp


Still they state is the criminal for charging so much.

I think all states have some alternative form of state ID. I still don't see what having a driver's license has to do with owning or driving a car. I have a driver's license, and I don't own a car. And guess what? When I need ID, I have one-- my driver's license. Nobody asks me how many miles I've driven that day, or what kind of car I own, when I present my ID.

I think this whole "I don't have a license and I'm treated like a criminal" routine is just an attention-seeking ploy, and nothing more.

I think this whole "I don't have a license and I'm treated like a criminal" routine is just an attention-seeking ploy, and nothing more.
I guess it worked, as you posted twice. :) If you dont have ID, you are treated like a criminal. You can't get credit, cash checks, rent or buy a house, or much of anything else. If the cops stop you and you don't have ID, they will probbly take you to jail, or at least to the police station until somebody comes and identifies you.

Of course in order to get a driver's license you have to take an expensive driver's ed course, pass a written test, a vision test, a sign test, and come up with a car in order to take the road test. Then you have to pay a lot of money! Why go to all that expense and trouble if you don't even want to drive?

Made to feel like a criminal? I don't think anyone can make you feel a certain way. That comes from within. They may behave a certain way towards you, but how you feel as a result really depends on you. Take pride in your excellent choices and don't give a crap if someone else doesn't get it. EDIT: and get an alternate ID. Passport? Photo health card? Birth certificate?

I guess it worked, as you posted twice. :) If you dont have ID, you are treated like a criminal. You can't get credit, cash checks, rent or buy a house, or much of anything else. If the cops stop you and you don't have ID, they will probbly take you to jail, or at least to the police station until somebody comes and identifies you.

Of course in order to get a driver's license you have to take an expensive driver's ed course, pass a written test, a vision test, a sign test, and come up with a car in order to take the road test. Then you have to pay a lot of money! Why go to all that expense and trouble if you don't even want to drive?Yeah, it worked. :D

I agree that you need ID to get by in today's society. I live in Oregon, and have a California ID, and even that causes problems for me sometimes.

I don't know with absolute certainty how it is today, but as far as I know, you are not required to take a driver's ed course to get a driver's license. You certainly don't have to own a car to take the driving portion of the test. You do have to know somebody with a car, though. You do not "have to pay a lot of money." The cost for a driver's license is what-- $50 or less? That's not a lot of money. Passing tests? Like, how hard is that? The tests are designed to give every moron who walks in the door a license.

OK, so if it's too much bother, you can get a state ID, and you don't have to pass any tests or have any friends or family. You still have to pony up "a little bit" of money for the ID, though. Sounds to me like he's spent more time, effort and money bucking the system than he would have if he had just tried to get an ID.

No attention-seeking there, though.




EDIT: $26 to get a driver's license in California. Wow, that IS a lot of money. Like twenty-six whole dollars!

Many times I feel like a criminal or a non member of society. What has driving an automobile got to do with proving who you are. I am sure there are more people out there that feel like I do. Sorry for the rant
Perhaps if you stopped ranting about what you don't do, and wrote a few words about what you are doing then maybe you'd have less of a problem "proving who you are". Just a suggestion. Take it or leave it.

$26 to get a driver's license in California. Wow, that IS a lot of money. Like twenty-six whole dollars!

:eek: Its $200 (CAD of course) in Ontario! Well, only $125 if you never plan to get your full license.

OK that is a lot of money for an ID, even if it's CAD.

Since when do you have to have a car to contribute to the economy!?

Every try to buy a house without credit card debt or a revolving credit? I guess subjegation is the price to pay to live where we do. I have a friend who is also near 50, never had a license and refuses to get the other non dl id.

I wonder how many of the hijackers had Dls?

Every try to buy a house without credit card debt or a revolving credit? I guess subjegation is the price to pay to live where we do. I have a friend who is also near 50, never had a license and refuses to get the other non dl id.


- hmm... i bought my last two houses with no credit card debt and no revolving credit...

- of course, i did have a drivers license though...

:-)

I guess it worked, as you posted twice. :) If you dont have ID, you are treated like a criminal. You can't get credit, cash checks, rent or buy a house, or much of anything else. If the cops stop you and you don't have ID, they will probbly take you to jail, or at least to the police station until somebody comes and identifies you.

Of course in order to get a driver's license you have to take an expensive driver's ed course, pass a written test, a vision test, a sign test, and come up with a car in order to take the road test. Then you have to pay a lot of money! Why go to all that expense and trouble if you don't even want to drive?
Huh? I've bought 5 houses in the past 28 years and have never had credit card/ or a revolving charge debt beyond the normal full payment date. Never have I been asked for a DL when obtaining a mortgage or when in the olden days when I rented rented an apt. None of my credit reports indicate anything about possession of a DL, Do yours? To prove identity the credit card report company states that a utility bill in your name is sufficient.

Where do you obtain this info about the need to have a DL to purchase a house or it being the only way to prove ID?

Everyone should have some sort of ID to avoid hassles in general. In the US when you are hired for a position, you have to prove citizenship. Either a DL/equivalent and birth certificate, OR a passport will do.

Get the passport for ID. At least that way you can use it for something fun.

Regarding mortgages - you are obligated to provide ID SS#, passport, DL, etc. post 911. Unless the mortgage place I just used to buy a new place scammed me.

In some states you are required to carry an official picture ID (state id or passport).

And if you ride your bike on the 'road' on 'tires' - you do contribute to the petroleum industry in at least 2 ways. Albeit significantly less than by driving. Not to mention use any plastics, etc.

If you dont have ID, you are treated like a criminal. You can't get credit, cash checks, rent or buy a house, or much of anything else. If the cops stop you and you don't have ID, they will probbly take you to jail, or at least to the police station until somebody comes and identifies you.

This may be somewhat true, but it doesn't mean that you have to have a driver's license. My 72-year-old father has never had a license, and never learnede to drive. He's got credit, though, and cashes checks (well, not often. The ubiquity of the ATM has made check-cashing all but obsolete), has rented and now owns his residence (a loft, not a house, but the point still stands), and has never been taken to jail or even the police station.

I am almost 50. I have never owned a car nor will I ever own one. I have always biked. I know that I do not contribute to the "economy". After all I do not pay gas taxes, or keep the poor insurance companies in business, or support the autoworkers. I often feel like I am some sort of freak, after all I keep my body fit so I am not a drain on our health care system, I do not contribute to our air pollution problem, and I don't drain our oil reserves so we will not be dependent on foreign countries for our energy. I do not even have a license. Here in Canada it is almost impossible to get a piece if ID without a drivers license. That one piece of paper determines whether you are an honest upstanding citizen or not. Many times I feel like a criminal or a non member of society. What has driving an automobile got to do with proving who you are. I am sure there are more people out there that feel like I do. Sorry for the rant
your right
by not contributing to a consumer economy you become more aware and able to contribute to a moral economy. An economy should be based on people not material clutter, where wealth is represented by being and not just doing.

Huh? I've bought 5 houses in the past 28 years and have never had credit card/ or a revolving charge debt beyond the normal full payment date. Never have I been asked for a DL when obtaining a mortgage or when in the olden days when I rented rented an apt. None of my credit reports indicate anything about possession of a DL, Do yours? To prove identity the credit card report company states that a utility bill in your name is sufficient.

Where do you obtain this info about the need to have a DL to purchase a house or it being the only way to prove ID?
As usual you totally distorted everything. Did you mean to reply to somebody else? I said you need Identification to get those things. I said nothing about a driver's license or credit card.


If you dont have ID, you are treated like a criminal. You can't get credit, cash checks, rent or buy a house, or much of anything else. If the cops stop you and you don't have ID, they will probbly take you to jail, or at least to the police station until somebody comes and identifies you.

This may be somewhat true, but it doesn't mean that you have to have a driver's license. My 72-year-old father has never had a license, and never learnede to drive. He's got credit, though, and cashes checks (well, not often. The ubiquity of the ATM has made check-cashing all but obsolete), has rented and now owns his residence (a loft, not a house, but the point still stands), and has never been taken to jail or even the police station.
I wish you people would learn how to read. :D

Regarding mortgages - you are obligated to provide ID SS#, passport, DL, etc. post 911. Unless the mortgage place I just used to buy a new place scammed me.

Does the US not have privacy laws? I always wonder when I hear things like this, since I live in a country where its considered "highly inappropriate" to even ask for marital status during a job interview!

FWIW, I do hold a driver's license. I use it mainly for ID, but I do drive about once a month or so, to take my dad to doctor's appointments and run errands for/with him.

I have friends who use a state issued picture ID card with no problems or discrimination against them.

I know other people who do not hold any state ID cards for political (seems almost religious sometimes! :)) reasons. They do have a lot of hassles as a result.

Still other people I know are basically criminals, and they don't have a driver's license or other ID for that reason.

I believe that, in the US, if you are stopped by the police with probable cause, or in the course of an investigation. you are legally required to identify yourself. But that is sometimes taken to mean that you must tell them your true name, aliases, birthdate, and address. I have read that you are not legally required to hold a government issued document.

What do you think are the ramifications of requiring ID in a so-called free society?

Do you think ID documents are mainly good because they deter crime, and make it easier to hunt down criminals? are they good becaus they help control immigration? Are they mainly useful to governments trying to control the citizenry for political purposes? Or are they mainly useful to corporations and credit agencies?

Does the US not have privacy laws? I always wonder when I hear things like this, since I live in a country where its considered "highly inappropriate" to even ask for marital status during a job interview!
Do you own real estate in Canada? Did you pay cash or inherit it? If not how did you finance it/ get a deed without identifying yourself? Do you pay real estate taxes or any other taxes mailed to you? How did you identify yourself? Or is your real name a big secret?

I believe that, in the US, if you are stopped by the police with probable cause, or in the course of an investigation. you are legally required to identify yourself. But that is sometimes taken to mean that you must tell them your true name, aliases, birthdate, and address. I have read that you are not legally required to hold a government issued document.

What do you think are the ramifications of requiring ID in a so-called free society?Carrying I.D. (http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8843.0.html)

Do you own real estate in Canada? Did you pay cash or inherit it? If not how did you finance it/ get a deed without identifying yourself? Do you pay real estate taxes or any other taxes mailed to you? How did you identify yourself? Or is your real name a big secret?

In order: Yes. No. But I did. Yes. ID. My real name is in my sig (my domain name).

As usual you are so quick to post a negative response that you missed the context. I replied to a comment:


Regarding mortgages - you are obligated to provide ID SS#, passport, DL, etc. post 911. Unless the mortgage place I just used to buy a new place scammed me.

That particular example sounded excessive to me, but more to the point it also sounded typical of what I often hear. Any ONE of the items above could have been enough for ID, and both your driver's license and SS# (Or SIN in Canada) carry privacy issues. Hence my question: are there no privacy laws in the US (or in individual states) limiting what forms of ID may be asked for, and how they are used? For that matter, given how common identity theft is, what are the laws about collecting and protecting that info?

Here's a website (http://papersplease.org/hiibel/index2.html) you may find interesting.One man's fight regarding the legal requirements for carrying and presenting ID, at least in Nevada. There was another case recently in Denver; I think there might be info on it somewhere on that same site.

After moving to Colorado last August, I finally got down to the DMV (30 miles away) the other day. I considered getting a state ID only, rather than a driver's license, but went with the DL - I might use it on occasion. A poster on the wall at the DMV listed 2 state laws that prohibit residents from holding both a DL and a non-DL ID at the same time, which I thought was a little odd.

In order: Yes. No. But I did. Yes. ID. My real name is in my sig (my domain name).

As usual you are so quick to post a negative response that you missed the context.
I got the context. You assumed that something posted on the Internet that you want to believe is true, IS true. I bought my last house in 2002. No DL or passport needed. Just a SSN for the bank to get a credit report for the mortgage, and a copy of my Army discharge to get a Veterans Discount on my local real estate taxes. The later being optional if I didn't want my "privacy invaded."

Are you implying that Canadians can do non-cash financial transactions without ANY requirement to ID themselves with some sort of proof of identity? Or that business do credit reports, or the Canadian government does transactions with its citizens without "invading privacy". Spare me the pompous hypocrisy.

I got the context. You assumed that something posted on the Internet that you want to believe is true, IS true. I bought my last house in 2002. No DL or passport needed. Just a SSN for the bank to get a credit report for the mortgage, and a copy of my Army discharge to get a Veterans Discount on my local real estate taxes. The later being optional if I didn't want my "privacy invaded."

Are you implying that Canadians can do non-cash financial transactions without ANY requirement to ID themselves with some sort of proof of identity? Or that business do credit reports, or the Canadian government does transactions with its citizens without "invading privacy". Spare me the pompous hypocrisy.


Sorry, not playing. I have no interest in entertaining your use of deliberate misunderstanding to start a flame war.

Sorry, not playing. I have no interest in entertaining your use of deliberate misunderstanding to start a flame war.
I agree. And we can both agree that Roody's comments that drivers license and credit debt are requirements for mortgages are derived from Internet chatter; and that Canada and Canadians (car-free or not) have no special claim on protecting an individual's ID privacy any better than their neighbors to the south.

I agree. And we can both agree that Roody's comments that drivers license and credit debt are requirements for mortgages are derived from Internet chatter; and that Canada and Canadians (car-free or not) have no special claim on protecting an individual's ID privacy any better than their neighbors to the south.

Stop with the insults and pathetic attempts to pick fights. I don't know what the situation in the US is re: privacy laws, therefore so I asked. If you have a problem with that, the issue is yours. Grow up.

You are now on my ignore list.

Stop with the insults and pathetic attempts to pick fights. I don't know what the situation in the US is re: privacy laws, therefore so I asked. If you have a problem with that, the issue is yours. Grow up.

You are now on my ignore list.
Good.

You really wanted to know about privacy laws in the US and asked this agenda driven group for the honest to goodness answer? Yeah sure, that explains your insulting so-called "question" about the big bad neignbor to the South.

As usual you totally distorted everything. Did you mean to reply to somebody else? I said you need Identification to get those things. I said nothing about a driver's license or credit card.
Oh my! The big meanies of the world won't let the simple people buy a house or get credit without any identification. Your comment is even more foolish than I thought.

uh... you still have to pay for drivers ed.I took driver's ed in high school, free of charge. And I'm still not sure that driver's ed is required. As far as I know, the only thing that's required is passing the test.

Look, if getting a license was difficult, there wouldn't be so many cretins on the road, would there? But since the road is filled with cretins, getting a license can't be a very difficult thing.

I applaud you. Most people wouldn't have the drive to live the way you do, or they live that way, not by choice. I now live very car free, and I couldn't be happier. When I had cars, I was always broke, because of insurance, car payments, gas, etc. However, I like the idea of having a DL, basically for renting cars when you travel, plus I need it for work sometimes.

What has getting a driver's license got to do with owning or driving an automobile?

Actually it has a lot to do with driving an automobile, simply put according to the law you need a DL to operate a motor vehicle.