This from Washington Area Bicyclists Association (waba.org):
After nearly ten years of public input, the National Park Service has decided what to do about the future of Rock Creek Park: almost nothing – or perhaps even worse! Barring a last-minute reversal, NPS will adopt a “general management plan” (GMP) that puts automobile commuter traffic squarely ahead of recreation and environmental protection.
Despite overwhelming public comment in favor of weekday car-free recreation zones along Rock Creek, the Park Service has decided to keep Beach Drive open around the clock on weekdays. Instead, NPS plans to implement controversial traffic-calming measures such as speed humps or speed tables. The result, according to some cyclists and skaters, could be even worse than the status quo.
But we still have a fighting chance during a final comment period now underway through February 15. Please join the People’s Alliance for Rock Creek (PARC) and the Washington Area Bicyclist Association (WABA) in protesting the decision, and urge the Park Service to adopt a plan that includes weekday recreation. For example, “Alternative D-1,” would close one segment of Beach Drive for recreation for six hours each day and offers an alternative route within the park.
For more information on what you can do to help, please visit www.saverockcreekpark.org.
Is this really as bad as it sounds? Are there so many people riding bikes on Beach Drive on weekdays to warrant shutting down the road? I don't know; I'm usually at work! It *is* a national park though...In fact, it's the largest urban national park in the country. And isn't the idea behind parks to provide a quiet, peaceful place for relaxation and recreation? Not to mention preservation of wildlife. It seems very bizarre to me to have a line of rush hour traffic winding its way through a national park. What would New Yorkers do if their park service opened Central Park to rush hour traffic? I'm guessing they wouldn't like it. [EDIT: user "jpearl" tells us later in this thread that, "Central Park is open to rush hour traffic. It's dangerous and nobody likes it, but if you've ever seen rush hour traffic on the streets of NYC, you'd understand why".]
I personally see no need for Beach Drive to be opened to traffic when there are perfectly capable roads running parallel to Beack Drive outside the park, such as Connecticut or Wisconsin Avenues west of the park and 16th St or Georgia Ave east of it.
Your thoughts?
Guest
02-24-06, 08:53 AM
Close beach and encourage cycling on weekdays. Make cars take Wisconsin and CT instead.
Koffee
jpearl
02-24-06, 09:46 AM
Close beach and encourage cycling on weekdays. Make cars take Wisconsin and CT instead.
Koffee
Bad idea. Last thing you want to do is to take traffic that flows relatively smoothly, and compact it onto roads like Wisconsin and CT which are heavily laden with stop lights, cars stopping to turn onto side streets, and cars parked on the sides of the roads. It would be a traffic nightmare, which is not what we need given the traffic nightmare that is already rush hour commuting in the DC Metro area. While I encourage bicycle commuting and commute via bicycle as much as possible myself, some people just don't have the luxury. Unfortunately, while DC has generally good public transportation, it's not as robust as New York City's (but a whole lot cleaner, though).
BTW, DeeMaGlee, Central Park is open to rush hour traffic. It's dangerous and nobody likes it, but if you've ever seen rush hour traffic on the streets of NYC, you'd understand why, and if you were trapped in a car on Central Park West, you'd make for a shortcut through the park fist chance you got.
DeeMaGlee
02-24-06, 10:12 AM
jpearl: Thanks for the clarification re NY's Central Park.
Studies of Beach Drive's traffic (http://www.saverockcreekpark.org/PARCstudy.htm) during rush hour have shown that these other roads could easily handle the extra load. IMHO, there is simply no reason in the world to turn a national park into another commuter artery. It's just plain wrong. There are already about 12 arterial routes into the city. How much more traffic could a single-lane, windy road through a park add to these huge arteries like Wisconsin or Connecticut?
In addition, I believe that closing the park to motorized traffic would definitely encourage suburban dwellers in Bethesda, Rockville, or further afield who normally car-commute into DC to commute on their bikes down Beach Drive. This would slightly reduce the number of cars on the road...especially if some government org or advocacy group started promoting the idea...
Some quotes from the study:
Weekday traffic volume on the southernmost portion of the narrow, windy, two-lane road typically reaches three times the NPS standard of 8,000 vehicles per day for a two-lane road.
Despite the relatively high levels of traffic for a two-lane park road, upper Beach Drive plays a relatively small role in the context of a broader transportation corridor. During the morning rush hour, Beach Drive provides only a single southbound lane, versus a dozen arterial lanes on each side of the Park. A transportation study conducted for NPS in 1997 concluded that partial closure of Beach Drive would not significantly increase traffic congestion on routes such as 16th Street and Connecticut Avenue, since Beach Drive carries less than 5% of the traffic volume of the major routes in the north-south corridor. [2]
Furthermore, traffic experts, the National Park Service, and the D.C. Department of Public Works have acknowledged that the 5-month closure of the Zoo Tunnel for repairs in 1990 did not result in feared traffic congestion on alternate routes in the north-south corridor, although it carries two to three times as much daily traffic as the areas where traffic restrictions are under consideration.
In a sadistic way, I wish I commuted to downtown DC on Beach Drive so I could hold up the commute for car drivers. Maybe that would make them think about taking alternate, non-park routes...but I doubt it. I'd probably just get killed by some road-rage idiot.
genec
02-24-06, 10:23 AM
I hate to be the lone voice here...
But what is wrong with speed "tables?" If these are the things I think they are, they are nothing to a cyclist, but sure slow down the auto traffic.
There are a series of these very wide speed bumps on my commute, in front of a local elementary school. In a car, you can barely do 20MPH across these things... on a bike, you hardly notice the roll up and roll down on the other side... I take them at 18MPH and find them no problem at all.
If this is the kind of action it takes to tame motorists, I am all for it.
DeeMaGlee
02-24-06, 11:22 AM
genec: I don't know. You might have a point. I know that SUV drivers can cruise over them like they don't exist. I can easily cruise over speed bumps in my (small SUV) Subaru Forester...
If we're going to allow general traffic in the park, why stop there? Why not build a few high-rise condo buildings by Rock Creek so they can enjoy the scenery! A 7-11 would be nice too... :rolleyes:
Ok, that's ridiculous I know... :)
genec
02-24-06, 12:07 PM
genec: I don't know. You might have a point. I know that SUV drivers can cruise over them like they don't exist. I can easily cruise over speed bumps in my (small SUV) Subaru Forester...
If we're going to allow general traffic in the park, why stop there? Why not build a few high-rise condo buildings by Rock Creek so they can enjoy the scenery! A 7-11 would be nice too... :rolleyes:
Ok, that's ridiculous I know... :)
Well I agree that the ultimate idea would be to simply close the road... but no doubt that means widening some other road somewhere.
Regarding the speed tables... they slow down SUVs too. These are very tall and wide speed bumps... bikes just happen to travel at just the right speed to take these easily. Anything moving over about 25MPH will have problems with them... perhaps even bikes... I don't know... I take them at about 18MPH and they worked beautifully.
My wife drives a Land Cruiser and she changed her route to the store because of these things... so they do work. BTW she has a Land Cruiser to go off road as part of her work. She used to use a 4WD pickup.
scarry
02-24-06, 12:28 PM
Bad idea. Last thing you want to do is to take traffic that flows relatively smoothly, and compact it onto roads like Wisconsin and CT which are heavily laden with stop lights, cars stopping to turn onto side streets, and cars parked on the sides of the roads. It would be a traffic nightmare, which is not what we need given the traffic nightmare that is already rush hour commuting in the DC Metro area. .
The problem is too many cars. Single occupancy cars. Close the damn road.
derath
02-24-06, 01:48 PM
I hate it when you lose a post before you get to post it.
I have ridden beach drive numerous times during the week and it isn't too bad. Although never during rush hour (usually 10am or later).
It is a shame the gov't isn't more progressive in their thinking. IMO by closing beach drive permanently and starting a bike to work campaign they could help traffic congestion to offset closing the road. A closed beach drive would make for a kickass bike commuting route downtown. You could literally fly all the way down to Georgetown.
-D
PaulH
02-24-06, 01:55 PM
I agree that a closed Beach Drive would be great for bike commuting. However, I'm not sure that closing it to cars on weekends does anything other than reinforce the stereotype that bikes are basically for recreation.
Paul
DCCommuter
02-24-06, 02:36 PM
I agree that a closed Beach Drive would be great for bike commuting. However, I'm not sure that closing it to cars on weekends does anything other than reinforce the stereotype that bikes are basically for recreation.
Paul
Agreed. It certainly reinforces the notion that bikes don't belong on that road when it's not closed.
dynaryder
02-24-06, 03:31 PM
I agree with closing it. One of my closest calls was a woman who just had to get by me one time. Rolled up on me leaning on the horn,then buzzed me going into a turn and almost clipped a car coming in the other direction. IIRC,wasn't there some radio guy who also griped about bikes on Beach?
A twisty,2 lane,25mph road is not a place to make time. They should just close it and be done with it.
derath
02-24-06, 03:59 PM
Agreed. It certainly reinforces the notion that bikes don't belong on that road when it's not closed.
I don't know. I am all for this advocacy and being equal to cars. But sometimes, especially given the traffic situations, having a separate place to ride would be more beneficial.
if given the choice I would prefer a closed beach drive to having to commute on some of the really congested roads, such as Wisconsin. Closing beach drive i think would help because:
1. beach drive is tough to share to being with. Not only are there no shoulders, but much of it has a curb. On the plus side, especially for the VC crowd, that means we must take the lane. On the negative side it does as much to hurt our cause by pissing off the already irate commuting cagers.
2. Cycling would benefit most IMO by an increase in ridership. For the hardcore riders, coexisting with the traffic is ok. But having a safe place for cyclists would help increase ridership. The more we recruit onto bikes the bigger our voice.
I think closing beach drive permanently could have a great affect on the number of cycling commuters. On a closed beach drive I would bet good money you could blast into town during rush hour faster on a bike than in a car or metro.
Personally I would love to see a closed beach drive that ends up with so many cyclists, we have a virtual peleton every day.
-D
genec
02-24-06, 04:07 PM
Personally I would love to see a closed beach drive that ends up with so many cyclists, we have a virtual peleton every day.
-D
Ah yes, the bike hiway concept... :D
Slow Train
02-24-06, 05:43 PM
One argument that proponents of closing the parkway full-time make is that, several years ago, the tunnel by the National Zoo was closed for repairs for several months. Despite the predictions of the gloom and doomers - no traffic snarls were detected along adjoining 16th or Connecticut Avenue!
Guest
02-24-06, 07:50 PM
Bad idea. Last thing you want to do is to take traffic that flows relatively smoothly, and compact it onto roads like Wisconsin and CT which are heavily laden with stop lights, cars stopping to turn onto side streets, and cars parked on the sides of the roads. It would be a traffic nightmare, which is not what we need given the traffic nightmare that is already rush hour commuting in the DC Metro area. While I encourage bicycle commuting and commute via bicycle as much as possible myself, some people just don't have the luxury. Unfortunately, while DC has generally good public transportation, it's not as robust as New York City's (but a whole lot cleaner, though).
BTW, DeeMaGlee, Central Park is open to rush hour traffic. It's dangerous and nobody likes it, but if you've ever seen rush hour traffic on the streets of NYC, you'd understand why, and if you were trapped in a car on Central Park West, you'd make for a shortcut through the park fist chance you got.
First, I don't care about how the traffic flows up and down Wisconsin and CT- there shouldn't be so many cars out there to begin with. Maybe it'll teach them to carpool, take public transportation, or get a bike and join the rest of the cyclists on Beach Ave.
I was thinking if they closed Beach Ave, it would be seen as a major bike route, and it would encourage people to ride to work. I think it would make cycling less as a recreation and more of a commuting option.
I personally hate that path that runs along Rock Creek. It is tore up majorly bad, and I choose to ride the street. When I do, I can average up to 27 miles per hour (my personal best) and ride hard from MD to DC. A speed bump would mess with my rhythm. I don't like the idea of a speed bump. Why should I have to slow down to 18 miles per hour because cars constantly break the speed limit? :-/
Koffee
DCCommuter
02-25-06, 07:59 AM
I personally hate that path that runs along Rock Creek. It is tore up majorly bad, and I choose to ride the street. When I do, I can average up to 27 miles per hour (my personal best) and ride hard from MD to DC. A speed bump would mess with my rhythm. I don't like the idea of a speed bump. Why should I have to slow down to 18 miles per hour because cars constantly break the speed limit? :-/
Hey, that's a 25 zone and you're averaging 27? Sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black! :p
Guest
02-25-06, 09:43 AM
Well, you know the speed limit changes from MD to DC.... sometimes the mph is 35 and sometimes it's 25. So I'm still in the safe zone. ;)
Koffee
jpearl
02-26-06, 11:44 AM
It's very easy to say "close the road" and then tell everybody to ride to work, but this is an ineffective tactic for the following reasons:
- Not everybody lives within bicycle-commuting distance, and that in itself is suggestive since a feasable distance for one person is far too much for another.
- Not every workplace is bicycle-commuter freindly. I had the luxury of working at a design studio in NYC where the principle and I rode to work and kept our bikes in the studio. The company I currently work for is installing a shower, the result of advocacy from high-ranking emplyees who commute by bike. However, some workplaces have no room for bikes in the workplace, and some people need to show up clean and fresh in a suit ready for presentation.
What cycling advocates need to do instead of calling for roads to be closed is to promote bicycle commuter-friendly workplaces. We need to help companies understand how to accomidate the bicycles of employees (just "locking it up outside" is not acceptable for your carbon superbike). Facilities need to be provided both to help bicycle commuters get freshended up for thier day at work and to safely store thier bikes. Maybe bicycle commuters, upon assistance from thier workplaces', should recieve discounts on equipment for commuting purposes such as lights, bags, and safety gear like helmets. Municipalities can print maps for commuters (DC has an excellent one).
In short, before making big demands for road closure, we should be focusing on the finite details that will make bicycle commuting an option for emloyees that isnot only attractive for environmental, economic, and healt purposes, but is also practical and feasable for employers and employees alike. Then, when bibcyle commuting becomes more mainstream, calls to redirect traffic or even just to improve roads for bicycle commuters won't seem like such an abstract call from the obscure part of left field.
Guest
02-26-06, 12:47 PM
I say we can do both at once.
I think this area of the country has a LOT of cyclists already, even if no other employers in this area offer bike friendly options for their employees. There's no reason to not give better cycling routes and reward employers who encourage their employees to ride in to work.
Koffee
Slow Train
02-26-06, 01:35 PM
+1
Let's not make this a Chicken or the Egg type of argument. If I were emperor I would decree:
1) That all newly constructed office building provide sufficient, covered and secure parking for cyclists.
2) Sufficient locker room and shower facilities - not only for cyclists but for other exercisers.
3) That new office buildings that don't want to provide this on their own and existing buildings that can't be retrofitted be able to form co-ops to delegate these requirements to a nearby facility such as a gym or bike commuter station.
Closing Rock Creek Park to automobiles would be a major demonstration that government really does want to solve the problem.
If the problem is that we are choking on too many cars than it would seem to be on the first order to stop swallowing any more!
FastFreddy
02-26-06, 02:49 PM
The point about facilities is important. In a white-collar city like DC, many if not most workers need to be able to wash and change at the workplace to make bike commuting viable.
And it’s not just “car vs. bike” – that transportation corridor is very well served by public transit.
Guest
02-26-06, 04:34 PM
I don't think public transit is an issue. Even if there were 3 buses and 2 trains that stopped every block, I would not take public transit unless it was absolutely necessary.
Koffee
Slow Train
02-26-06, 06:51 PM
I don't think public transit is an issue. Even if there were 3 buses and 2 trains that stopped every block, I would not take public transit unless it was absolutely necessary.
Koffee
Think about all that you are missing!
Notes from Underground
Metro Riders Share Their Favorite Subterranean Stories
Sunday, February 26, 2006; Page M01
Everyone, it seems, has a story about the odd, funny, occasionally disturbing things they've witnessed on Metro. There must be something about riding the rails that brings out hilarious, loopy or simply clueless behavior in people.
I am trying NOT to think about all I'm missing. That's what I'm talking about! ;) :D
Koffee
DeeMaGlee
02-27-06, 08:09 AM
The company I work for in Bethesda goes out of its way to provide amenities for employees who use non-motorized commuting options. They have shower facilities, they will subsidize a new bike up to (I think) $300, will buy you Metro passes, and subsidize new shoes if you walk to work.
However, out of the 180 employees, only 3 commute by bicycle. So the argument that the facilities should be there to accomodate commuters BEFORE Beach Drive is closed to motorized transport is not watertight. The reason these people don't commute is because they perceive it waay too dangerous to ride on the roads here, and gas is much too cheap, so they have no real incentive to pedal their lazy asses to work.
Now, how better to address this safety issue than to have a single, major, non-motorized commuting road into and out of DC through the fresh air and beauty of a national park! Why can't the National Parks Service at least give this a trial? It is sooo frustrating that our officials don't listen to us!
DeeMaGlee
02-27-06, 08:20 AM
(PS. I just sent this note to Rock Creek Park superintendent: )
Dear Superintendent:
I'd like to draw your attention to a discussion I started on bikeforums.net regarding the use of Rock Creek as a commuting artery into DC.
If you have time to reply, I'd love to hear your opinions on how we (The Public) can best get involved in this decision-making process.
Thank you!
If you haven't taken action yet, please do so here: http://www.saverockcreekpark.org/take_action.htm
...and please do so by Feb 28, which is the end of the public comment period.
noisebeam
02-27-06, 08:55 AM
reason these people don't commute is because they perceive it waay too dangerous to ride on the roads here, and gas is much too cheap, so they have no real incentive to pedal their lazy asses to work.
I think there is a good chunk of folks who don't cycle commute simply because they never (seriously)considered it. Changing to cycle commuting isn't something one does one morning on a whim. It takes planning and preparation. Its easy once one gets the prep, the gear and does it, but the obsticals are far more than just fear or laziness.
Al
DeeMaGlee
02-27-06, 09:17 AM
I think there is a good chunk of folks who don't cycle commute simply because they never (seriously) considered it.
Good point, noisebeam. Maybe what we need is a beginners bike-commuter education program or workshop that gives advice on all aspects - how to ride safely in traffic, basic bike maintenance, analysis of an individuals' commuting requirements (kit needed, like a suit-pannier and toiletry bag), help with choosing a route, maybe even experienced ride partners for the initial ride to help newbies gain confidence...
Does anyone know if such a program already exists? I'd love to promote it at my workplace...
Slow Train
02-27-06, 01:02 PM
Good point, noisebeam. Maybe what we need is a beginners bike-commuter education program or workshop that gives advice on all aspects - how to ride safely in traffic, basic bike maintenance, analysis of an individuals' commuting requirements (kit needed, like a suit-pannier and toiletry bag), help with choosing a route, maybe even experienced ride partners for the initial ride to help newbies gain confidence...
Does anyone know if such a program already exists? I'd love to promote it at my workplace...
I think this is what the 'Bike to Work' program is all about. Here in DC WABA (www.waba.org) promotes the program. This years bike to work day will be May 19th.
noisebeam
02-27-06, 01:08 PM
I think this is what the 'Bike to Work' program is all about. Here in DC WABA (www.waba.org) promotes the program. This years bike to work day will be May 19th.
Sure, but its just one day, which won't catch the vast majority of folks deciding to start on a whim. I missed last years BTW day even though I am I (near) daily commuter.
Al
Slow Train
02-27-06, 01:19 PM
As I recall a lot of people missed last years ride - it was raining cats and dogs :mad:
They may not even need to buy any T-shirts for this year! I sure hope they didn't include the year of the ride on them.
Either WABA or BikeWashington.org has a mentorship program where they will put you into touch with a volunteer who will suggest routes, equipment, etc. May even accompany a newbie on their first day.
Robobo1
05-29-06, 08:22 AM
So what is the final outcome of the Rock Creek movement? Did the gov. continue with their plan of speed bumps (gasp) or did they finally vote to close it on weekdays (I hope....)
Guest
05-29-06, 02:21 PM
The last email I got from WABA said that they plan to move ahead with the speed bumps. Uuugh... if that happens, it'll make life super hard for cyclists and probably for cars too, since we'll have to ride super slow so that we don't kill ourselves going over speed bumps all over the place- that is, if we do continue to use Rock Creek on weekends. :(
Koffee
derath
05-29-06, 08:38 PM
The last email I got from WABA said that they plan to move ahead with the speed bumps. Uuugh... if that happens, it'll make life super hard for cyclists and probably for cars too, since we'll have to ride super slow so that we don't kill ourselves going over speed bumps all over the place- that is, if we do continue to use Rock Creek on weekends. :(
Koffee
Hopefully (not holding my breath) they will put in speed bumps like I have seen some places, where it doesn't go all the way to the edge of the road.
At least in times where the road isn't completely crowded, you can bypass the speed bump on a bike that way.
-D
noisebeam
05-30-06, 09:42 AM
Hopefully (not holding my breath) they will put in speed bumps like I have seen some places, where it doesn't go all the way to the edge of the road.
At least in times where the road isn't completely crowded, you can bypass the speed bump on a bike that way.
NO. This is the worst kind of speed bump design compensation for bicycles. You do not want to be at the edge of the road where cars slow to bike speed or slower. Many drivers also habitually swerve to right to put one tire off the bump. Alternately a cyclist will approach slowing car and either be tempted to pass on right (right where car may swerve to right)
Instead the speed bump should have an 12-18" cut out in the center of the lane.
Al
Robobo1
05-31-06, 08:28 AM
Great idea! Is this common practice?
If the NPS does plan to go through with speed bumps, we should try to find a way to convince them of this method...