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At the Sebring ultra race Team Bacchetta riders seemed to dominate the standings.
Jim Kern on his Aero did 516 miles in 24 hours non drafting.
In the drafting 24 hour cat. a "B" rider did over 470 miles.
And in the 12 hour event "B" founder John Schlitter and one other team rider "Billy wolff" did 269.5 miles.
hey lets give team "B" there due even though this is a lowracer site.
Lowracers have no advantage on an ultra at speeds of 21 mph for the duration. Highracers have a great advantage over lowracers with there bigger wheel diameter at relitively slow speeds that happen in ultra's.
Things are going down much as I predicted that they would in 2002 when I first showed up in Chi-town for a ride. No one wants to talk about it but I certianly will....
MG
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In other news, Magilla still has that nagging chip on his shoulder.
Congrats to Team Bacchetta, BTW.
At the Sebring ultra race Team Bacchetta riders seemed to dominate the standings.
Jim Kern on his Aero did 516 miles in 24 hours non drafting.
In the drafting 24 hour cat. a "B" rider did over 470 miles.
And in the 12 hour event "B" founder John Schlitter and one other team rider "Billy wolff" did 269.5 miles.
hey lets give team "B" there due even though this is a lowracer site.
Lowracers have no advantage on an ultra at speeds of 21 mph for the duration. Highracers have a great advantage over lowracers with there bigger wheel diameter at relitively slow speeds that happen in ultra's.
Things are going down much as I predicted that they would in 2002 when I first showed up in Chi-town for a ride. No one wants to talk about it but I certianly will....
MG
Do you have a link to these results?
In other news, Magilla still has that nagging chip on his shoulder.
Congrats to Team Bacchetta, BTW.
I would invite you to try and knock the chip off.
I think your a first class jerk with that post. I show up at races and rallyes and I would bet you would not be so smug in person.
Anyway, I have a new blog up you should read it. You just might learn something....
MG
I had the links page from John Schlitter but it does not work anymore.
Give me a little time and I will post it.
You will be impressed....
MG
Recumbents hold all top places at Sebring
Here is an article from the UMCA web page:
http://www.ultracycling.com/results/sebring2006.html
Nice blitz by the recumbent riders! To me, this proves that recumbents ridden by competitive riders can produce competitive results. Further speculation as to the supposed superiority of one recumbent over another is pointless and unjustified.
Here is an article from the UMCA web page:
http://www.ultracycling.com/results/sebring2006.html
Nice blitz by the recumbent riders! To me, this proves that recumbents ridden by competitive riders can produce competitive results. Further speculation as to the supposed superiority of one recumbent over another is pointless and unjustified.
John,
I must disagree with you on this one. Dual 26 bents at the reletively slower speeds encountered in Ultra events are faster with there bigger wheels then lowracers. I don't mean to ruffel your feathers but I just think that the more we see at Ultra races the more that this will become a fact.
Now here is something to think about John. In '03 Rich Pinto and John Schlitter and Myself were up at the Stevens point rally. Alan Ariail had his tricked out Razz Fazz there. he beat us. But on the Sunday easy ride Rich and Alan had some coast down tests and the Aero and the Carbon RF were equal with the Aero beating it on a few of the coast downs. Alan had his seat height much more upright for climbing not like what he is riding on his current NoCom.
IMO the NoCom is not the best setup as a bike for solo RAAM. The Aero is. That's all I have to say on the subject. Agree or disagree but racing is showing what works and what does not work here John.
I think my Blog is fair and well reasoned and how can you argue with Bacchetta's success?
You are of course welcome to comment on any of my posts. You will be treated fairly and If I have missrepresented anybody I will consider my position and if proven wrong change it.
www.bacchettaaero.blogspot.com
MG
Dual 26 bents with bigger wheels have relatively slower speeds at HPV racing events. The recent results at the FL HPV race show the fastest lap speed posted by a team Bacchetta racer was 24.58 mph. When compared to chip timed non faired lowracer speeds of 28.57 -28.93 at HPV events in 05 the 24.58 lap speed posted by team Bacchetta is considered slow.
Dual 26 bents at the reletively slower speeds encountered in Ultra events are faster with there bigger wheels then lowracers.
MG
Ultra races are not the only races to compare performance benchmarks. Until dual 26 recumbent design start posting fastest overall speeds at HPV events there is no justification to imply that a dual 26 design is the fastest bike design.
I don't mean to ruffel your feathers but I just think that the more we see at Ultra races the more that this will become a fact.
MG
What was tricked out with the RazzFazz Kevin? I had a lowracer with an upright seat angle and fabric disc covers. 2 of the Bacchetta riders had solid rear discs. The Sunday ride was a social ride with Rich and brakes were used on the coast downs. Neither bike had the same tires or tire psi, the rider height and weight was different, the seat angles were different, neither rider started the descent at the same time and both riders had different cadence on the descent.
Get your facts straight about accurate coast down testing. You claim that lowracers and highracers are equally as fast based on an impromptu coast down 3 years ago. Lowracer designs have changed dramatically since then with improved perfomrance. The highracer design has not changed since that time.
Now here is something to think about John. In '03 Rich Pinto and John Schlitter and Myself were up at the Stevens point rally. Alan Ariail had his tricked out Razz Fazz there. he beat us. But on the Sunday easy ride Rich and Alan had some coast down tests and the Aero and the Carbon RF were equal with the Aero beating it on a few of the coast downs. Alan had his seat height much more upright for climbing not like what he is riding on his current NoCom.
MG
Bacchetta had better team support than Velokraft in RAAM 05. Bacchetta beat Velokraft in RAAM 05. That was a team race not an individual race. Your theory of NoCom solo performance for RAAM is once again biased and non fact based.
IMO the NoCom is not the best setup as a bike for solo RAAM.
MG
Bring your Aero to an HPV event posted at WISIL to race against lowracers. After all racing shows what works and what does not work.
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/events.htm
The Aero is. That's all I have to say on the subject. Agree or disagree but racing is showing what works and what does not work here John.MG
There is a 200K the same weekend as the Indy HPV race. That 200K appears to be an option for a NoCom to race against a team Bacchetta Aero on roads with traffic, wind and hills. Finishing times and photos of the event can be posted on a blog for anyone to view regarding lowracer vs. highracer performance on the open road.
NoCom_AA
I think my Blog is fair and well reasoned and how can you argue with Bacchetta's success?
You are of course welcome to comment on any of my posts. You will be treated fairly and If I have missrepresented anybody I will consider my position and if proven wrong change it.
www.bacchettaaero.blogspot.com
MG
Dual 26 bents with bigger wheels have relatively slower speeds at HPV racing events. The recent results at the FL HPV race show the fastest lap speed posted by a team Bacchetta racer was 24.58 mph. When compared to chip timed non faired lowracer speeds of 28.57 -28.93 at HPV events in 05 the 24.58 lap speed posted by team Bacchetta is considered slow.
Ultra races are not the only races to compare performance benchmarks. Until dual 26 recumbent design start posting fastest overall speeds at HPV events there is no justification to imply that a dual 26 design is the fastest bike design.
What was tricked out with the RazzFazz Kevin? I had a lowracer with an upright seat angle and fabric disc covers. 2 of the Bacchetta riders had solid rear discs. The Sunday ride was a social ride with Rich and brakes were used on the coast downs. Neither bike had the same tires or tire psi, the rider height and weight was different, the seat angles were different, neither rider started the descent at the same time and both riders had different cadence on the descent.
Get your facts straight about accurate coast down testing. You claim that lowracers and highracers are equally as fast based on an impromptu coast down 3 years ago. Lowracer designs have changed dramatically since then with improved perfomrance. The highracer design has not changed since that time.
Bacchetta had better team support than Velokraft in RAAM 05. Bacchetta beat Velokraft in RAAM 05. That was a team race not an individual race. Your theory of NoCom solo performance for RAAM is once again biased and non fact based.
Bring your Aero to an HPV event posted at WISIL to race against lowracers. After all racing shows what works and what does not work.
http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/events.htm
There is a 200K the same weekend as the Indy HPV race. That 200K appears to be an option for a NoCom to race against a team Bacchetta Aero on roads with traffic, wind and hills. Finishing times and photos of the event can be posted on a blog for anyone to view regarding lowracer vs. highracer performance on the open road.
NoCom_AA
Hi Alan,
I pretty much agree with what you posted. But you must admit that in Ultra racing the speeds are lower and there are other factors other than Aerodynamics. I love the NoCom Alan. Great bike and design. Wish I would have ordered one with all of you guys when they first came out.
And a 200k is not an Ultra race Alan. You are most welcome to come to the Brevet. But you never know who will show buddy. All of us 'bent riders might just get our butts handed to us by some of the really strong DF'ers that might show.
And Brevets are not races and GLR does not publish finish times only the names in alphabetical order of the finishers in true Brevet style. I do not plan on riding this ride as a race. If you do I will post pics of your bike and your finish time on my Blog. You can write the story of your experience and I will post it for all to read. hope to see you there Alan. Your king on short rides Alan but on a 400k to a 24 hour event I think that a dual 26 is the way to go. To each his own. BTW Larry Graham is a team Bacchetta rider I am not. He will be at the Michigan UMCA Ultra championship this summer. I have not committed to this race as of yet since it all depends on my fitness level and amount of miles I have In. Larry won the Drafting class at 472 miles in 24 hours at the Sebring UMCA ultra championship race. This was a race with published finish times Alan. Larry is a northerner like you and I and had no miles in prior to this ride yet he did 472 miles. I think an actual Ultra race with published times is the best place to put this to rest.
Any rides planned for Monkey Island This spring? I need the miles....
TGAM
For years you have been posting that brevets are races and now you change your tune when someone challenges you to race one. Very funny Kevin.
And a 200k is not an Ultra race
TGAM
Yeah lot of strong DF riders out there. My 200K target is the highracer rider/bloger/slide show person who has been claiming for years that lowracers are not street worthy, can not climb hills, can not ride on chip seal and are no good off the track. I want to see how long that highracer pilot can keep up with a lowracer before dropping off to draft pack wheels.
You are most welcome to come to the Brevet. But you never know who will show buddy. All of us 'bent riders might just get our butts handed to us by some of the really strong DF'ers that might show.
TGAM
Yeah just like SP was not a race on that Sat. years ago. Time for you to start training when you are not bloging.
And Brevets are not races
TGAM
Sounds like a highracer excuse to sit in with the DF pack and suck wheels the whole way. Good for you. You might as well let the pack do all the work for you while you draft.
I do not plan on riding this ride as a race.
TGAM
How are you going to take photos when you will be no where near the front and still out riding when I am finished? You should buy a lowracer so you can finish the 200k in a respectable time.
If you do I will post pics of your bike and your finish time on my Blog.
TGAM
You never commit to any races Kevin. On your blog you claim that you race. Where are all your posted results of racing HPVs? What web sites are your results posted on?
Time for you to contact Larry for the 200K. You can both wear your ridiculous team jerseys and pretend to be super duo while racing the 200k on those chipseal roads and hills in WI.
Larry Graham is a team Bacchetta rider I am not. He will be at the Michigan UMCA Ultra championship this summer. I have not committed to this race as of yet since it all depends on my fitness level and amount of miles I have In. Larry won the Drafting class at 472 miles in 24 hours at the Sebring UMCA ultra championship race.
TGAM
Time you start training in your own local with your so called "fastest ride in the United States BS group". You need all the miles and speedwork you can get for the 200k race in April.
NoCom_AA
Any rides planned for Monkey Island This spring? I need the miles....
TGAM
Go Bacchetta!
I really don't get the " which bent is faster" argument. All bents have comfort and speed on DFs.
SB
It's human nature for guys to argue about who's is faster I guess. The fact is any two given riders may have different fitness levels. There is really no way to prove this definitively I think. I personally enjoy the high racer design but I haven't ridden a low racer. For the distances I do the position of the High Racer just looks more comfortable to me over a 23 hour period or longer (23 hours was my last ride). Maybe we will know for sure after 4 or 5 more RAAMs.
There is NO argument from me that Bacchetta makes an EXCELLENT ultra bike and has some of the elite and fastest ultra racers in the USA on their team. James Kern, Larry Graham, John Schlitter are all phenomenal athletes and racers.
In contrast, Kevin Magilla/Tom Swift/TGAM who is one of the original team Bacchetta members has been claiming that lowracers are no good on the streets, can't climb hills, are no good in traffic, are dangerous, are useless on chipseal with 406 front tires, can only race on the track, etc.... All biased claims not based on fact or lowracer riding experience.
According to TGAM a lowracer is not a good choice on the open roads with traffic in his local and limited WI area. In this thread he posts that a NoCom is not the bike for a solo RAAM attempt. Amazing how Kevin who never raced any recumbents at sanctioned events and has never sat on a lowracer more than 1 city block knows so much about lowracer performance, aerodynamics including biomechanics of an open riding position.
A dedicated blog for the 200K GLR event with photos and quicktime movies is inevitable. The recumbent community should have access to legitimate photos and movies comparing coastdown and climbing speeds of lowracer and highracer recumbent designs on roads not associated with HPV track venues.
NoCom_AA
Go Bacchetta!
I really don't get the " which bent is faster" argument. All bents have comfort and speed on DFs.
SB
Hi Alan,
Thanks for the nice words.
If you want to race me directly then lets do it at the 24 hour Race sanctioned by the UMCA in Michigan this summer. Larry, Jim and John all ride a lot more miles than I do right now. But I can do enough miles to get in half way decent shape for this event.
Alan,
If you do the 24 hour race I will show at your track race.
How about it? I think we could have some fun....
TGAM
The Michigan 24 hour challenge is on June 17 and 18 and here is a link to there page.
http://www.n24hc.org/
Kevin,
Are you not up for a quick 5+ hour ride in your area with one of those so called "slow & no good on the road lowracers"? Why poke along at 7 hours when sub 6 is doable on a lowracer Kev. You've got the big wheels buddy. Should be no problem to maintain a leading non drafting pace on all that rough pothole strewn WI chipseal. You do know you can not draft an ultra low when you ride a dual 650C Kev. You will have to ride solo and not depend on pack draft in the lead Kev.
There are plenty of people with ample time who can do the 24 hour ultra gig. I prefer the short distance quick stuff. Racing for a quick 40 minutes or a 5-6 hour event is plenty to maintain a healthy heart muscle, metabolism, cardiovascular system and lifestyle, eh Kev?
I planned to go to Indy and race on the track on 4/29 but someone with an ultra low has to travel to WI on 4/29 to produce video clips and photos to show the recumbent community that an ultra low recumbent can ride open roads at a brevet in WI with no danger to the rider. Videotaped coastdowns between highracer and lowracer do not exist on the net. Time for some visual performance reference eh? I've got the video crew ready to go for this event.
BTW, the title of the blog for the 200K will be "NoCom VS. Aero at the WI 200K Hilly Chipseal Brevet".
You can link it on your latest blog.
Don't forget your Blue B team jersey, Endurolytes & HammerGel flask on 4/29 Kevin.
NoCom_AA
Hi Alan,
Thanks for the nice words.
If you want to race me directly then lets do it at the 24 hour Race sanctioned by the UMCA in Michigan this summer. Larry, Jim and John all ride a lot more miles than I do right now. But I can do enough miles to get in half way decent shape for this event.
The Michigan 24 hour challenge is on June 17 and 18 and here is a link to there page.
http://www.n24hc.org/
IF Kevin goes to this, we'll all be expecting great things from him. Although he's never gone before, so perhaps he's just full of hot air, issuing challenges that he hopes will never be accepted. Or perhaps Bacchetta is planning on fielding a team of ringers there, too and he's planning on winning vicariously through their efforts.
The current N24HC recumbent record is held by a TerraTrike rider, a model which is not known to be one of the faster trikes out there. I know of at least one highracer to have competed; so using Kevin's brand of logic, that means trikes are better than highracers at long distances on real road courses. :)
The more mainstream recumbents become, the more the recumbent racing crowd looks like their roadie equivalents, complete with silly spandex jerseys, who's-got-the-bestest-fastest-lightest-most-carbon-fiberesque-bike arguments, boasting and pissing contests. I'm so glad I'm into touring...
Go Bacchetta!
I really don't get the " which bent is faster" argument. All bents have comfort and speed on DFs.
SB
It's not really a "which bent is faster" thread. Jeff-o explained it pretty well at the start of the thread.
Perhaps the best way to deal with Kevin will be to take a spare NoCom to WI and plop his dual 650C butt on the 6" high seat. He can ride the bike more than 1 city block.
After many years Kevin still has ZERO clues about lowracer efficiency while climbing hills, rolling resistance with a 406 front wheel on chipseal, low height visibility in traffic or top cruising speed with a rear wheel tucked behind a riders torso and not under. No need to get into bottom bracket to seat distance as that will overload Kevs brain.
The continued posts about impromptu recreational coastdowns from 3 years ago are rather funny. There may be some hope for Kevin Switfy Tom after he rides more than his current 1 block max distance on a lowracer recumbent. Until then I expect more absurd response about the evils and dangers of low bikes on real roads, at races, on ultras and RAAM.
NoCom_AA
IF Kevin goes to this, we'll all be expecting great things from him. Although he's never gone before, so perhaps he's just full of hot air, issuing challenges that he hopes will never be accepted. Or perhaps Bacchetta is planning on fielding a team of ringers there, too and he's planning on winning vicariously through their efforts.
The current N24HC recumbent record is held by a TerraTrike rider, a model which is not known to be one of the faster trikes out there. I know of at least one highracer to have competed; so using Kevin's brand of logic, that means trikes are better than highracers at long distances on real road courses. :)
I'm clueless about a NoCom because I'm too short to ride one and I've never had a chance to. However, I do know about highracers, both Aeros and Volaes, and I also know about a Baron. Personally, there is no way a highracer is more comfortable than my Baron over any distance or road surface, chipseal or autobahn. Lowracers are long and that long beam slides over bumps like a LazyBoy recliner.
I'll buy that some people have neck issues with lowracers and can't acclimate to the recline, but ride quality certainly isn't an issue.
-Dennis
C'mon you know plenty about the bike.
Hows about that Carbent?
http://www.carbent.com/index.htm
WOW!!!! 16+ lbs. The lightest highracer around with the sub 1 lb.. VK carbon seat, VK carbon fork, Volae handlebars, custom hubs and light wheels. That is one amazing bike.
I bet climbing a steep western mountain route with a Carbent will be easier compared to the much heavier Aero or Carbon Aero. Got to hand it to Dave Karcher of Carbent for finally producing a light carbon highracer design that is not a heavy springy titanium noodle.
NoCom_AA
I'm clueless about a NoCom because I'm too short to ride one and I've never had a chance to. However, I do know about highracers, both Aeros and Volaes, and I also know about a Baron. Personally, there is no way a highracer is more comfortable than my Baron over any distance or road surface, chipseal or autobahn. Lowracers are long and that long beam slides over bumps like a LazyBoy recliner.
I'll buy that some people have neck issues with lowracers and can't acclimate to the recline, but ride quality certainly isn't an issue.
-Dennis
There is NO argument from me that Bacchetta makes an EXCELLENT ultra bike and has some of the elite and fastest ultra racers in the USA on their team. James Kern, Larry Graham, John Schlitter are all phenomenal athletes and racers.
NoCom_AA
Hi Racer, Low Racer. Rans XP Stratus. Who cares? Anyday on any recubent is a good day. United we stand divided we fall. With all that said How much faster do you think these guys might be on lowracers?
Hi Racer, Low Racer. Rans XP Stratus. Who cares? Anyday on any recubent is a good day. United we stand divided we fall. With all that said How much faster do you think these guys might be on lowracers?
Those guys do not need lowracers to go fast at ultra races. They are producing excellent results with their highracer recumbents. However if they switch to a Carbent highracer with lower frame weight they will have a better climbing frame than their team issued bikes.
http://www.carbent.com/
"The Superman dual is 6 lbs. lighter than the typical high racer recumbent bicycles". The weight reduction will make a significant difference when climbing steep mountain grades
NoCom_AA
Hows about that Carbent?
That's cool, but how about that VK3?!? Now, there's a sexy highracer and I can't wait to see one in person.
denster
That's cool, but how about that VK3?!? Now, there's a sexy highracer and I can't wait to see one in person.
denster
The VK highracer is new with little to no information about handling and COG at this time.
The biomechanic advantage the VK highracer has over the Serian SL, Carbent, Volae and Bacchetta is lower seat to BB height. Less stress on the knee joints including the muscular and skeletal system. Clean aerodynamics with a low BB.
The Carbent, Volae and Aero all have similar rider geometry including BB to seat height. Carbent has the light weight advantage. Volae has marketing advantage with a mail order purchase option from Hostel Shoppe http://www.hostelshoppe.com/adwords.php.
Currently Bacchetta is the only highracer that has set ultra racing records to date but no records in stock recumbent racing at HPV track events.
Both highracers and lowracers are equally capable of racing ultra events. Bacchetta currently has superior support of their product line at ultra events including a strong ultra rider base in Florida.
Volae has an experienced 2 person team racing RAAM 06 which is a challenging move to Bacchetta in the ultra rider market. The only solo NoCom RAAM racer Glenn Druery has limited to no funding to enter RAAM 06.
Company support is a big factor in ultra racing success.
NoCom_AA
Hi Alan and John,
A 200 k Brevet is not an ultra. Lets do a longer race Alan. I will be at the brevet but will not ride with you with your current attitude.
And to john I can do 400 miles at that 24 hour race or more. Larry Graham will be there and I will ride in support of him.
Your band of friends has done little to help recumbents nor do you do anything positive.
Glen Druerey needs some cash for RAAM and a Jim vs Glen matchup would be great.
A brevet that is untimed is a poor place for a race. Your about shot at 6 hours Alan. MY chances against you go up very dramaticly at much greater distances. So its an Ultra or nothing. I am just better at the long stuff so bring your band of men and start another blog that you can get kicked off of. But of course rather than supporting Glen you would probably pay for private band width for you nonesense.
And lets continue this disscussion via private email. I am trying to be civil to you but I guess its time to ignor you if you persist. And John you have done nothing for bents other than bash Bacchetta that has done something for the sport.
My blog is fair and honest and I will post about your NoCom Alan. Its a great bike no doubt but your posts on this message board and others just drive people away. And I can tell you no Bacchetta team rider will ever go to one of your Chicagoland races because of this type of stuff. And thats a shame Alan. No hostility from me.
If you want to race in Machigan fine. If not thats fine to.
TGAM
[QUOTE=BlazingPedals]IF Kevin goes to this, we'll all be expecting great things from him. Although he's never gone before, so perhaps he's just full of hot air, issuing challenges that he hopes will never be accepted. Or perhaps Bacchetta is planning on fielding a team of ringers there, too and he's planning on winning vicariously through their efforts.
What kind of comment is this John? I think that your a first class jerk but thats just a personal opinion.
I did not issue the challange Alan did. I prefer a longer race Alan prefers and is better at shorter events. That has always been the thing we have always disagreed on John. What have you done? Care to commit to the Michigan 24 hour event?
Rinngers? These are all over 40 year old guys on Aero's hardly what you would call a ringer. The Aero is a great bike and with a few of them pacelining good things will happen. And Alan is so right. Support is critical in an Ultra for a good time. I don't know if Bacchetta is comming or not but Larry is planning on attending.
The trike record will fall.....
TGAM
Darn Kev,
Sounds like you do not want to do a sub 6 warm up race pace ride to prepare for the NC24. Can't blame you knowing how difficult it will be on the dual 26 with no DF pack wheels to draft. Riding in front of the pack all those windy, hilly, chipsealed southern WI brevet roads is a challenge for anyone. Without wheel draft it will be a very difficult sub 6 hour ride for you.
Maybe you will consider a lowracer with less aerodynamic drag if you want to finish a short hilly chipsealed windy 200K brevet under 6 hours.
How do you like that Carbent beauty Kev? That one will be a good choice for you with dual 650Cs to keep up on the climbs with strong DFs on 16 lb Treks at that so called "Fastest Group Ride in The USA" at Dousman. The Carbent is light and will not bounce or flex when cranking up those super steep long southern WI 30% grades that are just like the Rocky Mountains in CO.
No cookie cutter production with the Carbent. No sir. CARBENT is an AMAZING ground breaking highracer design with beautiful lines, strength and aesthetics. Other bent manufacturers can learn a lot form that bike design, light weight ratio and high quality production. No brake chain rub or brake pad issues with Carbent. IMOP next top of the line highracer to Carbent is Volae built in Waterford. Looking forward to the carbon Volae. That carbon Volae will shake up the ultra world with ease of purchase by mail order and price. Hostel Shoppe is a wonderful company to buy from.
Too bad Carbent is not entering RAAM in 2006. That is the dream bike for dual 650C climbers.
See you at the 200K.
NoCom_AA
Hi Alan and John,
A 200 k Brevet is not an ultra. Lets do a longer race Alan. I will be at the brevet but will not ride with you with your current attitude.
And to john I can do 400 miles at that 24 hour race or more. Larry Graham will be there and I will ride in support of him.
Your band of friends has done little to help recumbents nor do you do anything positive.
Glen Druerey needs some cash for RAAM and a Jim vs Glen matchup would be great.
A brevet that is untimed is a poor place for a race. Your about shot at 6 hours Alan. MY chances against you go up very dramaticly at much greater distances. So its an Ultra or nothing. I am just better at the long stuff so bring your band of men and start another blog that you can get kicked off of. But of course rather than supporting Glen you would probably pay for private band width for you nonesense.
And lets continue this disscussion via private email. I am trying to be civil to you but I guess its time to ignor you if you persist. And John you have done nothing for bents other than bash Bacchetta that has done something for the sport.
My blog is fair and honest and I will post about your NoCom Alan. Its a great bike no doubt but your posts on this message board and others just drive people away. And I can tell you no Bacchetta team rider will ever go to one of your Chicagoland races because of this type of stuff. And thats a shame Alan. No hostility from me.
If you want to race in Machigan fine. If not thats fine to.
TGAM
Sheesh, guys. Magilla has been away for some time and his posts now that he has returned were civil. I don't know the whole monkey island history and don't really care, but Magilla has some interesting things to say and I want to hear them. He loves Bacchettas, so what? I love my bike to.
The highracer/lowracer debate is interesting, but I vote that it occurs without the personal digs.
But of course rather than supporting Glen you would probably pay for private band width for you nonesense.
TGAM
Not sure what you are referring to Kev. If someone wants to participate in RAAM they should pay for it with their own money or by a company sponsor. Not private donation.
Children Charities of America is a group in need of financial support. Better to give financial support to CCA charities instead of someone doing a bicycle race which has zero benefits for children in need of help.
http://www.childrenscharities.org/
NoCom_AA
What kind of comment is this John? I think that your a first class jerk but thats just a personal opinion. I did not issue the challange Alan did.
I guess somebody else used your account when they wrote this:
If you want to race me directly then lets do it at the 24 hour Race sanctioned by the UMCA in Michigan this summer.
You've earned all the disrespect both Jeff-o and I have for you. Holding you in high disregard doesn't make us "first class jerks" it makes us perceptive.
...What have you done? Care to commit to the Michigan 24 hour event?
Rinngers? These are all over 40 year old guys on Aero's hardly what you would call a ringer. ...I don't know if Bacchetta is comming or not but Larry is planning on attending.
I have done exactly what I needed to do: ride to make myself happy. If you can't deal with that, then too bad. I'm not interested in the highracer vs. lowracer war that you seem to be doing your best to perpetuate, and I don't feel any compulsion to advocate bents to the general public. I'm just out to ride my bike. Any challenges I undertake will be against myself.
In my book, riding until you fall off your bike due to lack of sleep goes beyond the normal stupid, all the way to exceptionally stupid. Dumb and Dumber on stupid pills. Stupidus Majoris. Ignoramus Rex. I hope that gives you an inkling of why I might not be there, of why I've never gone to it even though it's only an hour from where I live. Larry is a national UMCA champion and has quads half again the size of mine. I don't know what you consider a ringer, but if you believe he's just an ordinary cyclist who happens to be on a magically-fast bike, then you could be a breveter (see above.)
I guess somebody else used your account when they wrote this:
You've earned all the disrespect both Jeff-o and I have for you. Holding you in high disregard doesn't make us "first class jerks" it makes us perceptive.
I have done exactly what I needed to do: ride to make myself happy. If you can't deal with that, then too bad. I'm not interested in the highracer vs. lowracer war that you seem to be doing your best to perpetuate, and I don't feel any compulsion to advocate bents to the general public. I'm just out to ride my bike. Any challenges I undertake will be against myself.
In my book, riding until you fall off your bike due to lack of sleep goes beyond the normal stupid, all the way to exceptionally stupid. Dumb and Dumber on stupid pills. Stupidus Majoris. Ignoramus Rex. I hope that gives you an inkling of why I might not be there, of why I've never gone to it even though it's only an hour from where I live. Larry is a national UMCA champion and has quads half again the size of mine. I don't know what you consider a ringer, but if you believe he's just an ordinary cyclist who happens to be on a magically-fast bike, then you could be a breveter (see above.)
Well John its great to see such pals as you and Alan in the same bed together.
Should I publish his latest emails to me for all to see?
I think I will not.
MG
I guess somebody else used your account when they wrote this:
You've earned all the disrespect both Jeff-o and I have for you. Holding you in high disregard doesn't make us "first class jerks" it makes us perceptive.
In my book, riding until you fall off your bike due to lack of sleep goes beyond the normal stupid, all the way to exceptionally stupid. Dumb and Dumber on stupid pills. Stupidus Majoris. Ignoramus Rex. I hope that gives you an inkling of why I might not be there, of why I've never gone to it even though it's only an hour from where I live. Larry is a national UMCA champion and has quads half again the size of mine. I don't know what you consider a ringer, but if you believe he's just an ordinary cyclist who happens to be on a magically-fast bike, then you could be a breveter (see above.)
If I posted stuff like the above I would get banned. It's nice to have a friend in the Bizz.
Have a great day John.
MG
Kevin,
I will have a mini sports cam attached to the bike for video clips of coast down speeds and break a ways. Combined with the video and camera crew in the van lot of video and stills will be shot of the 200K brevet.
All your friends from your slide show are looking forward to the GLR 200K on April 29th in Delavan, WI.
http://www.iit.edu/~csbole/calendar.html
Did you get any 100+ mile rides in yet Kev? Not much time left to prepare for a the 200K. I bet lot of Trek riders on light steeds will there. Any members of team Bacchetta planning to race the 200K?
NoCom_AA
Well John its great to see such pals as you and Alan in the same bed together.
Should I publish his latest emails to me for all to see?
I think I will not.
MG
In my book, riding until you fall off your bike due to lack of sleep goes beyond the normal stupid, all the way to exceptionally stupid. Dumb and Dumber on stupid pills. Stupidus Majoris. Ignoramus Rex.
Excellent description of ultra cycling.
That sums it up with ultra cycling. People get killed or seriously injured in ultra cycling events with sleep deprivation, dehydration and fatigue. Who wants to die for a recreational sport like Breedlove did in RAAM 2005?
Ultra cycling will always be the very small participation niche group of the entire cycling market. Highracers will never be allowed to participate directly against UCI legal bikes at sanctioned USCF events.
More cyclist in the USA show up to do tours and recreational century rides than ultra events. Recumbents are an excellent choice for distance riding at those events.
Thank god no one ever gets killed at HPV race events unlike ultra distance events.
NoCom_AA
If I posted stuff like the above I would get banned. It's nice to have a friend in the Bizz.
Have a great day John.
MG
I don't know what Alan wrote to you; but I tend to show more restraint than he does. Which you then seem to interpret as lack of intelligence. That is a mistake on your part. Whatever Alan wrote off-list must have been good. Does your indignation imply that you really do believe Larry is just an average cyclist? Whatever the case, you should knock off with the crocodile tears - they're unbecoming for someone with such an overblown ego as yours.
well I see nothing has changed around here except that somehow kevin has been allowed to post here again. well, back to more important things.
I don't know what Alan wrote to you; but I tend to show more restraint than he does. Which you then seem to interpret as lack of intelligence. That is a mistake on your part. Whatever Alan wrote off-list must have been good. Does your indignation imply that you really do believe Larry is just an average cyclist? Whatever the case, you should knock off with the crocodile tears - they're unbecoming for someone with such an overblown ego as yours.
John,
What are you rambling about now? I am talking to you not Alan. Larry is an over 40 guy who rides lots of miles. Not an average cyclist at all. Bacchetta found a good rider. You lowracer folks can't find any good riders other than Alan. And believe me a 200k is nothing and is no Ultra. My statements on this site and thread concern Ultra cycling. Everything I said about Bacchetta bikes is proving to be true. Lowracer's for track and short events and dual 26 at there relitively lower speeds and more comfortable positions make for better Ultra distance bikes. go ahead and ban me again. this site is worthless on this subject anyway.
MG
Hey, Magilla, if you're actually Spuds McDoogle, or you know where he can be found, will you please beg him to come back? He was the best forum troll of all time.
Hey, Magilla, if you're actually Spuds McDoogle, or you know where he can be found, will you please beg him to come back? He was the best forum troll of all time.
He was great was'nt he? I am sorry but I am not he. But I do know where he is. He's posting on the bacchetta company site at the moment till they ban him. Yes I know him well and have ridden with all of them. I mean him! Thats Chicago style when it comes to message board trolling...
MG
Sheesh, guys. Magilla has been away for some time and his posts now that he has returned were civil. I don't know the whole monkey island history and don't really care, but Magilla has some interesting things to say and I want to hear them. He loves Bacchettas, so what? I love my bike to.
The highracer/lowracer debate is interesting, but I vote that it occurs without the personal digs.
This is John Foltz's site. He hates Bacchetta and has from day one. So what? He is entitled to his opinion.
And to Lowracers if I ever get one it will be a carbon Velocraft and not a Baron. Very old school.
Ed Gin has a new Velocraft Beauty up in pics over at recumbents.com.
Check it out. very, very cool bike.
But as Alan has so correctly pointed out I know nothing about lowracers....
MG
Spuds McDoogle, or you know where he can be found, will you please beg him to come back? He was the best forum troll of all time.
:roflmao: :roflmao:
"This is John Foltz's site. He hates Bacchetta and has from day one."
"Ed Gin has a new Velocraft Beauty up in pics over at recumbents.com."
"What kind of comment is this John? I think that your a first class jerk"
"They are having a hard time with Mr. Kerns success on the Bacchetta Aero which they hate"
MG
Here are some facts for you Kevin.
1) This site is not run or owned by Foltz. I have never seen one post on the net with Foltz "hating" anything about Bacchetta or highracers. He is building a carbon highracer.
This is Foltz site which has more logic than any of your blogs:
http://www.biketcba.org/TRICORR/index.html
2) Gin does not have a NoCom. It was sold to Beauchamp who raced it in 2005 and will race it again this season.
3) Foltz did not post any comments in this thread that are aggressive or negative.
4) NO ONE is having a hard time with Jim Kerns success. He is a phenomenal world class athlete and record holder who rides and races a Bacchetta Aero. His web site and cycling bio are both amazing.
http://www.jameskern.net/
NoCom_AA
Here are some facts for you Kevin.
1) This site is not run or owned by Foltz. I have never seen one post on the net with Foltz "hating" anything about Bacchetta or highracers. He is building a carbon highracer.
This is Foltz site which has more logic than any of your blogs:
http://www.biketcba.org/TRICORR/index.html
2) Gin does not have a NoCom. It was sold to Beauchamp who raced it in 2005 and will race it again this season.
3) Foltz did not post any comments in this thread that are aggressive or negative.
4) NO ONE is having a hard time with Jim Kerns success. He is a phenomenal world class athlete and record holder who rides and races a Bacchetta Aero. His web site and cycling bio are both amazing.
http://www.jameskern.net/
NoCom_AA
See you on April 29 Alan.
I have forwarded your emails to the GLR officials about your planned use of cars on the route. That is a violation of the rules. Only support is allowed at controlls. well see what happens Alan.
If you pull off a sub 5 200 K I will be happy to post your success on my Blog Alan. Just let me take some High resolution photo's of your brevet card to post on my Blog.
Later....
Alan,
You are a bully and a child and I will do my best to beat you but In the past you have been faster than I at these short rides. The 300K Alan or the 400 K? All can be done in safe daylight. You are a coward. I will show for your game so why don't you show for mine?
Yes I am training but have far fewer miles than you right now but so what. You never know what will happen out on the road.
4) NO ONE is having a hard time with Jim Kerns success. He is a phenomenal world class athlete and record holder who rides and races a Bacchetta Aero. His web site and cycling bio are both amazing.
http://www.jameskern.net/
NoCom_AAJim is also an extremely nice guy!
Kevin,
Will all the Killer Bees be rotating in a big paceline for you at the grueling 200K race? Will they do lead pulls for you up Mt. Waterford and along that Fastest Group Ride in the USA route? Will all the Trek racers from Dousman be there to support you? Will anyone be riding dumpster bicycles?
Got any photos of your Aero out coasting the Cobra you plan to post on your blog?
NoCom_AA
Alan,
You are a bully and a child and I will do my best to beat you but In the past you have been faster than I at these short rides. The 300K Alan or the 400 K? All can be done in safe daylight. You are a coward. I will show for your game so why don't you show for mine?
Yes I am training but have far fewer miles than you right now but so what. You never know what will happen out on the road.
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