Mountain Biking - Knee Pain

Just reading the seat height thread,it got me too thinking,I been suffering a fair bit of Knee pain of late,as far as I`m concerned I think I`m set up correctly[stated by all the text books] as far leg length and saddle position.I`m using cleats for the first time in 14 years after using bear trap cages all that time,I have a fair bit of float with the cleats,the ball of my foot is over the axle.My knee pain is in both of my knees.Could this be caused by,Incorrect position,My football effected knees,An Arthritic condition[I have Osteo arthitis in my shoulder and lower back],Old age[nearly 40].
Has anyone got any solutions as I don`t really want to go back to bear traps.:beer:

once you have a knee problem, it never really seems to go away but you can minimize it and have to always watch not to overdo it or whatever.


from my post 9-9-02 http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14353&highlight=knee+pain
i have found by experiment that if i raise the saddle about 1 inch too high it reduces the pain and if i ride standing I have almost no problems.

from experiment i have tried lots of things - had a bike-fit which helped, bought new cleats (speedplay Frogs with lots of float), changed my technique to avoid big gears, and raise my seat ABOVE optimal for long climbs to reduce the bend-angle of my knee.

also see these threads:
Standing to Climb - http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14353&highlight=knee+pain
Another sore knee query - http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6524&highlight=knee+pain

From what little I know: You don't want your knees to bend more than 90 degrees during your stroke as this stretches the ligaments and pulls them around the kneecap with each rotation (1000's of times per ride). Freeriders and Downhillers ride with their seat low enough to exceed 90 degree bends because they don't use the seat much and want the clearance. Optimal XC position has the leg almost (but with room to stand for hard climbs/rough terrain) straight at the bottom of the stroke. I keep the balls of my feet on my pedals, although I ride on platforms, so that may have an effect. Do some light stretching before you ride and start out slow and finish at a cool down pace. Other than that, pay attention to what postures or habits you might have that place extra stress on your knees.

I do not know your exact circumstances, but do you ride enough to get your knees conditioned? I used to have some minor knee pain, but that was when I was not riding enough, and yes I have had a prior ACL. I try to ride at least 60-75 miles a week, as this seems to keep my joints lubed and ready.