Your daily confrontation with cagers

[San Rensho]

It seems that cagers F*** with me almost on a daily basis. How about some of your experiences? I'll start with mine.

Today I was doing my usual ride, going down a two lane road that is easily wide enough for cars to pass without endangering bicyclists. I was taking up about 3 feet of road, and going over 20 mph in a 30 mph zone. Few cars were passing me. There was plenty of room for cars to go past me without having to cross into oncoming traffic and a few did.

I hear a car come up slowly behind me and when she's in my blind spot, she starts honking and then moves up next to me. It looks as if she's having an epileptic fit. Her arms are flaying, pointing towards the right, her head is jerking back and forth, absolutely ranting. I yell that I'm entitled to be on the road and give her the finger. She apparently was motioning to a path, in a park, that is separated by a wall, that lasts for less than a block, which is used by peds, skaters, dog walkers etc, which she believes I should be riding on.

She pulls ahead and stops at a light at a T intersection. I blow the light (self appointed protectors of the church of VC take note, she messed with me BEFORE I ran the red, so don't tell me its my fault) and get ahead of her.

I get over half a mile down the road and sure enough, she does the same thing, waits till she's in my blind spot and blasts the horn again. This time her conniptions are even greater, she's bouncing around in the seat, waving maniacally. It was a little amusing, but the fact is a seemingly deranged person, driving 3k pounds of metal was f****** with me less than two feet away from me while I was on a bike. The usual finger and insults from me and she's off.

Another day in paradise!

[trackhub]

Yeah, I've had similar incidents in my life. I think everyone who rides has had them. You say this is happening to you almost every day? What's your geographic location? (general area)

Years ago, Richard Ballantine wrote that the American motorist is "absolutely convinced" that his/her vehicle gives him/her complete right or way. He was right, with little exception. Confronting this particular zipperhead would not have accomplished anything. You would have heard the standard canned arguments, including "You don't belong here", or the ever-popular "I pay my taxes, and my insurance, and my registration,,,"(Fill in the rest)

Hey, she might have been late for a hair appointment. Lord knows, you can't intefere with that.

[ceridwen]

I went on a ride down to the store with 3 friends on sunday. We planned to go early (8amish) to avoid traffic, but it rained until 10:30, so we ended up leaving at 12:30. The trip is about 8 miles, there are no bike lanes.

We had no trouble other than some people buzzing us on the way there (one of whom a cop got for doing it, he was also going about 20 over, that was a nice moment). While we were leaving the store and still in the parking lot, we had one woman whom we were NO WHERE NEAR yell at us to "get on the f'ing sidewalk". What sidewalk?!?! We're in a parking lot lady. My friend gave her the finger, and we made out way out of the lot.

Then not 200 yards down the road we had a completely different person chuck a nearly full water bottle at us. Thankfully he missed.

It's not a daily thing so far though. I bike to school every day on some back roads and haven't had much trouble except for when the shuttle drivers drift over into the bike lane (which is not nearly up to spec anyways).

[San Rensho]

Yeah, I've had similar incidents in my life. I think everyone who rides has had them. You say this is happening to you almost every day? What's your geographic location? (general area)

Years ago, Richard Ballantine wrote that the American motorist is "absolutely convinced" that his/her vehicle gives him/her complete right or way. He was right, with little exception. Confronting this particular zipperhead would not have accomplished anything. You would have heard the standard canned arguments, including "You don't belong here", or the ever-popular "I pay my taxes, and my insurance, and my registration,,,"(Fill in the rest)

Hey, she might have been late for a hair appointment. Lord knows, you can't intefere with that.

Beautiful Miami, Florida. I guess I have to put up with the idiots since I get to ride year round. Fair trade, but nevertheless a little upsetting. I get over it fairly quickly, though.

[catatonic]

Pretty tame over here in general, aside from the occaisional fly-by, nearly choking on exhaust from a junker, or having to play chicken with people who don't understand right-of-way in a large intersection (straight traffic before left turn, thank you...and no, I won't yield to you since I do have right of way as defined by vehicle code in this instance...get over it or stop driving).

[randya]

Florida, worst state in the union for bicyclists.

[AndrewP]

We have plenty of inconsiderate drivers here, but I only notice them when I am driving a car.

[pharmboyrx]

I was with a group of 10 as we merged onto a section of road with 3 lanes in either direction (A1A and US1 in Jupiter for those who have been there). No cars. As we take our place in the right side of the right lane, someone lays on the horn behind us. A truck....in the left lane!!! We proceed to be passed very closely...we're talking less than a foot...by two cars, when there is no traffic in the left lanes!!! I'm at the back of the paceline so I move out and take the whole lane. Someone lays on the horn behind me, then merges across the 2 clear lanes to my left and speeds up to the red light ahead.

I went f$%ing ballistic. I'm not proud of it but I did. I pulled out my frame pump and went up and tapped hard on the window of that car. When they didn't open it I kicked their door. The kid (like 17) opens the window and mouths off at me. I went nuts, then my group pulled me away and told me to drop it.

I deal with people honking at me everyday and it doesn't bug me. This really got to me for 2 reasons, there were 2 freaking lanes with no cars in them for anyone to pass. Second I was 1 of 2 guys in the group of 10 so my "he-man protect the girl" instinct kicked in.

Hooray florida.

[ceridwen]

heh, my experience is Florida too (orlando), go florida!

[webist]

Though not at all likely to "go ballistic" myself, I admit to vicarious enjoyment of stories/posts by those who do.

[mrkott3r]

seems to me most cagers go more nuts at us young cyclists. I passed one on the right today on the centre lane (so for you americans, I passed him on the left) traffic was slow , I was keeping up (it was outside a high school on a main road). the traffic was accelerating so I sprinted past this car pulled over to the left (to the right) to get out of the way, then he starts honking at me. He passes me his council worker passenger is abusing me, I yell out there was plenty of room, he says he wants to fight me. I shake my head.

Self-righteous cagers, pfft

[JohnBrooking]

I think road rage is a bit less here in Maine (state motto: The Way Life Should Be), so I'm fortunate to not experience as much of it as some of you do. I did have a mysterious thing a few weeks ago, though. It was snowing relatively heavily, and I was riding down the street, on the proper side and between intersections, minding my own business, when this cager coming the other way in his lane rolls down his window and out of the blue just starts yelling at me as he passed. I couldn't make out the words, so I have absolutely no idea what he was upset about, but he sounded angry. Did he think I was endangering myself and others by bicycling in that weather? Did he mistake me for someone else? I was figuratively scratching my head for several minutes afterwards...

[oboeguy]

I've had the exact same experience, complete with apoplectic fit, on possibly the widest two-lane street in the city (Riverside Drive by Grant's Tomb).

[DCCommuter]

I think a lot of the antagonism can be traced to fear. I've had a couple of conversations with drivers who claim they are terrified of hitting cyclists, and don't trust their ability to control their own vehicle to avoid it. Rather than seeing the problem as a "me" problem -- i.e., I'm responsible for controlling my vehicle -- they see it as a "them" problem -- cyclists don't belong on the road.

I find that the antagonism is particularly common among drivers who lack the confidence in their own abilities to leave their lane to pass on a two lane road.

I try explaining that driving around cyclists is really, really, easy: don't tailgate, don't pass unless it's safe to do so, and pass with a safe clearance. In other words, obey the rules of the road. It's not well received.

[DataJunkie]

It has been a while since I have had any issues. I believe drivers on my route are used to me now. Plus, taking the lane more often and expecting every motorist to attempt to hit me helped.
That said, almost all of my 19 mile route is in low traffic areas.

Ah! Thought of one. Last week a driver in a bmw buzzed me. However, he was traveling 1/2 the speed limit and slightly faster than I. Plus, I had not taken the lane yet (narrow street with parked cars).

[galen_52657]

I have not experienced much in the way of lunatic motorists lately. But, its cold and dark so riding hours are diminished. We did get an aggravated motorist on the club training ride on Saturday. And, it seemed to conform to a trend I have noticed of younger male drivers (mostly) being inconsiderate.

Nothing special, just the sounding if the horn starting about 300 yards back from the group and continuing to blow the horn and run up on the tail of the group (about 10 cyclists tightly packed). Then sitting there for a few seconds blowing the horn. Then, making the pass into the lane of a lone oncoming car.

Just your regular garden variety dumb shiznit

[velonomad]

I have to confront cagers everyday, I don't think any of them even know the traffic laws or care. Many are brooding ,probaly because they are couped up all the time. I often get hen pecked by them.
http://animals.timduru.org/dirlist/chicken/Chickens-Roosters_n_hens_in_cage.jpg

Motorists usually don't bother me :)

[DeeMaGlee]

I've only had one experience of a real jerk motorist, and this was someone who lives in my neighborhood who attacked me in our neighborhood! Her Maryland license plate is "HAYAAH" and she drives a BMW sportscar. That gives you an idea of the type...

Coming up to a green traffic light, I had taken posession of my lane in good time. She comes up behind me, blaring the horn. I move out further into the road to prevent her buzzing me in the intersection (with oncoming traffic waiting to turn). I move to the right once clear of the intersection and she buzzes me on the next stretch and overtakes before very quickly decelerating at the next (red) light. I pull up beside her and ask her why she was more concerned about making the light than splattering my head over the road...and now she's just sitting at a light while I can ride ahead of her! She started ranting, so I rode on. Clearly she wasn't intelligent enough to have a rational discussion.

Now I just let my dog crap in her yard and don't pick it up. I have fantasies of going at her pretentious little b*tch-mobile with my bike lock, or smearing dogs**t all over her house/car.

On another note, please stop calling them cagers. It doesn't help the cyclist/motorist relationship, and I'm sure many of you are also motorists.

[pharmboyrx]

Had another great encounter today. I was with 3 others on A1A in Boca Raton/Boynton. A truck passed us and gave us a decent amount of room considering oncoming traffic. However this rere failed to realize that his BOAT extended about 2 feet out further than his car. The rim of the boat was right at head level for me and passed within inches of my head. I yelled just in time for the lead rider to move in and not get creamed.

There was a red light up ahead and a nice group ride turned into a mad sprint to catch him......but the light turned green.

In other news my anger tops out at about 29mph.

[i82frogs]

My favorite encounter so far was when my wife and I were out riding one day. I was behind her, and some woman in a car passes me and lays on the horn right behind my wife. I took off past my wife and chased this lady (downhill, easy to do) I was right behind her the whole way. She freaks out and turns into a dead end street, then jumps out of her car screaming at me that we should have been on the sidewalk. She knows this because she rides a bike too, and that's where she rides.

I explained to her that coming up on a cyclist and blowing her horn was a good way to startle the cyclist and possibly throw them off balance, into the path of her car. She didn't seem to care.

I cannot take the stupidity of some people.

[genec]

We have plenty of inconsiderate drivers here, but I only notice them when I am driving a car.

Funny... sometimes I wonder if they exist because I am riding a bike, then I drive somewhere and sure enough, what I see confirms that the idiots exist no matter what.

[genec]

I think a lot of the antagonism can be traced to fear. I've had a couple of conversations with drivers who claim they are terrified of hitting cyclists, and don't trust their ability to control their own vehicle to avoid it. Rather than seeing the problem as a "me" problem -- i.e., I'm responsible for controlling my vehicle -- they see it as a "them" problem -- cyclists don't belong on the road.

I find that the antagonism is particularly common among drivers who lack the confidence in their own abilities to leave their lane to pass on a two lane road.

I try explaining that driving around cyclists is really, really, easy: don't tailgate, don't pass unless it's safe to do so, and pass with a safe clearance. In other words, obey the rules of the road. It's not well received.


I too have heard the same things... generally from older people. Frightens me that with that type of "lack of control" they are driving at all.

These folks BTW are exactly why BL are a good thing... these folks need lines in the road to tell them exactly what to do.

[PaulH]

I had exactly one "Get out of the road!" yelled at me in eight years of commuing. I replied, "Get out of my country!" I stayed in the road; he presumably stayed in the US. Must have been at least two years ago.

In general, drivers are very well,behaved towrd cyclists in this area. There is certainly a lot of road rage, but it all seems only directed at other cars. Strange.

Paul

[jimmy_jazz]

Fortunately I usually just have to deal with stupid drivers more than aggressive ones. The type that pull next to me at stop signs even though I'm taking the lane and they're sticking halfway out into oncoming traffic, or blow by me just to get to the red light.

The only real aggression I've seen is when a guy in a nice, spotless Audi or Acura (it's been a while...) threw his soda out the sunroof at my friend and me. It missed, so it was no big deal, but I pulled up behind his car again a week later, and there was a *huge* dent right down the middle of the trunk. It felt really nice to see he'd still gotten what was coming to him!

[banerjek]

Rather than seeing the problem as a "me" problem -- i.e., I'm responsible for controlling my vehicle -- they see it as a "them" problem -- cyclists don't belong on the road.
I normally don't argue with drivers (reasoning with morons and unreasonable people is a waste of time by definition), but a couple years ago after having some aggressive woman yell at me that I was in the way, I replied "You realize that if you were only quadruple my size, you'd easily be able to get past me without shifting over or slowing down. Why do you think you should be entitled to 10 times more space than me when we're both just going to work?"

I expected a stream of obscenities since these aggressive types normally have the intellectual capacity of a 2 year old (and emotional control to match). Instead she said -- "huh, never thought about it that way....."

[rule]

I ride so that this type of stuff doesn't come up, at least in the area where I live which is pretty tolerant and cooperative for cyclists.. I make some concessions as to route and in terms of how aggressive I am but the trade-off's are minimal and temporary.

[atbman]

It seems that cagers F*** with me almost on a daily basis. How about some of your experiences? I'll start with mine.

She pulls ahead and stops at a light at a T intersection. I blow the light (self appointed protectors of the church of VC take note, she messed with me BEFORE I ran the red, so don't tell me its my fault) and get ahead of her.


Don't want to disappoint you, so running the red was your fault. There is no logical connection between your experience of this obviously ignorant and ill-tempered driver and your decision to blow the light.

This has nothing to do with promoting VC, but has everything to do with your voluntary reaction. the fact that she was behaving like a tantrum-throwing 3-year old doesn't give you the right to then do something illegal and unwise (and ill-tempered) yourself. In the unlikely event that the police had seen, stopped and charged you, your argument would have cut no ice with the court.

In case you think I'm doing the holier than thou thing, I've also sworn at, given the V sign (UK) to drivers and gone bananas as a result of bad or aggressive driving. But still wouldn't regard illegal riding on my part as justified, except in extreme emergency to save my life/health/wellbeing.

[PaulH]

What if you had hit another cyclist when you blew the red?

Paul

[Dogbait]

It seems that cagers F*** with me almost on a daily basis. How about some of your experiences? I'll start with mine. . . . . .. ..
. . . . . . . .
Another day in paradise!

Daily confrontation? No. Weekly, monthly? No, not even yearly. Maybe every four or five years I'll be "confronted" by a motorist.... even then, I don't engage.

Takes two to tango.

Dogbait

[genec]

Daily confrontation? No. Weekly, monthly? No, not even yearly. Maybe every four or five years I'll be "confronted" by a motorist.... even then, I don't engage.

Takes two to tango.

Dogbait

It does take two to tango... and every now and then the "other guy" will do something either really irratating or stupid. At that point I DO chose to tango and I do whatever I can to make it a good lesson. I figure that someone has to change their mindset or behaviour before somebody gets killed.

I carry cards that have the California vehicle codes, as they apply to bicycles, written on them; and after a bit of discussion, the motorist gets a card.

[sbhikes]

You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.

[Dogbait]

It does take two to tango... and every now and then the "other guy" will do something either really irratating or stupid. At that point I DO chose to tango and I do whatever I can to make it a good lesson. I figure that someone has to change their mindset or behaviour before somebody gets killed.

I carry cards that have the California vehicle codes, as they apply to bicycles, written on them; and after a bit of discussion, the motorist gets a card.

I was referring to the conduct of the OP:

" I yell that I'm entitled to be on the road and give her the finger. "
and
"The usual finger and insults from me and she's off."

That sort of thing will not make a positive change to the mindset or behaviour of the motorist. It is a useless exercise in loss of control over ones emotions. A civilized discussion meant to inform is a totally different dance step.

Dogbait

[Blue Order]

It seems that cagers F*** with me almost on a daily basis. How about some of your experiences? I'll start with mine.

Today I was doing my usual ride, going down a two lane road that is easily wide enough for cars to pass without endangering bicyclists. I was taking up about 3 feet of road, and going over 20 mph in a 30 mph zone. Few cars were passing me. There was plenty of room for cars to go past me without having to cross into oncoming traffic and a few did.

I hear a car come up slowly behind me and when she's in my blind spot, she starts honking and then moves up next to me. It looks as if she's having an epileptic fit. Her arms are flaying, pointing towards the right, her head is jerking back and forth, absolutely ranting. I yell that I'm entitled to be on the road and give her the finger. She apparently was motioning to a path, in a park, that is separated by a wall, that lasts for less than a block, which is used by peds, skaters, dog walkers etc, which she believes I should be riding on.

She pulls ahead and stops at a light at a T intersection. I blow the light (self appointed protectors of the church of VC take note, she messed with me BEFORE I ran the red, so don't tell me its my fault) and get ahead of her.

I get over half a mile down the road and sure enough, she does the same thing, waits till she's in my blind spot and blasts the horn again. This time her conniptions are even greater, she's bouncing around in the seat, waving maniacally. It was a little amusing, but the fact is a seemingly deranged person, driving 3k pounds of metal was f****** with me less than two feet away from me while I was on a bike. The usual finger and insults from me and she's off.

Another day in paradise!San Rensho, I know from previous posts that you're an attorney. If I were in your cycling shoes, here's what I would do: I'd organize. Many states have laws against motorist harassment of cyclists. For example, I know that it's illegal to throw any object at a cyclist in at least one state (can't remember which state, though). If I were a cycling attorney in Florida, I would probably know other cycling attorneys, and I'll bet they've all got a harassment story to tell. So I'd organize them. Get every attorney in the state who rides. In that group, you're guaranteed to have Republicans and Democrats, and you're guaranteed to have some heavy-hitters-- people with connections. And then, when they're organized, you present an anti-harassment statute to the legislature. One that addresses the issues, and has some teeth. If anybody can get a law like that passed, it would be a bipartisan group of attorneys who ride. If it doesn't pass the first time it's presented, present it the next session, and keep presenting it until it passes. That's what I'd do.

Does a law stop people from being jerks? Sometimes. And sometimes not. But it gives us some recourse, which is more than you've got in Florida right now.

[genec]

I was referring to the conduct of the OP:

" I yell that I'm entitled to be on the road and give her the finger. "
and
"The usual finger and insults from me and she's off."

That sort of thing will not make a positive change to the mindset or behaviour of the motorist. It is a useless exercise in loss of control over ones emotions. A civilized discussion meant to inform is a totally different dance step.

Dogbait

Yeah, I've found that while the finger may feel gratifying at the instant you do it, it may do nothing more then escalate the situation.

I usually wave as if they were long lost friends... unless I can really stop and talk to them.

I have found out that often motorists honestly believe you do not belong on the road. There is information missing in their education about cyclists and our rights to the road. I willingly provide that information. This has formed the basis for my opinion that motorists are really poorly trained and that some further education needs to be given to motorists after they have gotten over the initial shock of learning how to drive. (Much like we teach "literature" long after we teach "reading.")

This also forms my opinion that many motorists do not view cyclists as fellow road users but more like obstacles to be avoided. We are obviously human... it is quite easy to see this while we ride... yet we are often treated as if we are nothing more than some object in the way... like a wayward sign post.

[kf5nd]

I really sympathize with people who get s*** from cagers, and I have gotten a little of it over the years, but remarkably little. I think there must be something about the riders... their technique, their appearance, something subtle... that is cueing people in that they can be targets of abuse.

Not they they're doing anything illegal, but that they're not playing the subtle game of human social dominance quite right.

I always "dress up" to go riding. Full corporate team kit (a major local employer, so lots of name recognition on my jersey & shorts), helmet, bike reasonably clean... so I look like an upper-middle-class adult person.

I can definitely see how someone who looks like a juvenile or from a lower social class would be more open to verbal abuse.

Maybe plugging those "holes" in one's presentation would help?

Taking the lane also means that you're saying "I ain't moving, you go around me". I wonder if many of the people who get abused are riding too far to the right, or they aren't keeping a really good line, speed, and cadence.

[sbhikes]

I think that in some regions the full team jersey outfit would invite more abuse. But I agree that looking good can help. Like HH says, he sometimes gets compliments from people about how "professional" he looks on his bike. So, team kit or slacks, a shirt and a briefcase. Maybe fashion can help.

I find that commuter style works: the bright yellow jacket, non-racing attire, lots of safety/visibility gear on the bike, and predictable behavior. People know I'm serious. And with this crazy bike, they recognize me when they see me again. I've gotten some abuse, but not a lot and not too much that was really angry. Mostly people just think I'm crazy and feel a need to tell me so.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I think there must be something about the riders... their technique, their appearance, something subtle... that is cueing people in that they can be targets of abuse.

Not they they're doing anything illegal, but that they're not playing the subtle game of human social dominance quite right.

I always "dress up" to go riding. Full corporate team kit (a major local employer, so lots of name recognition on my jersey & shorts), helmet, bike reasonably clean... so I look like an upper-middle-class adult person.

I can definitely see how someone who looks like a juvenile or from a lower social class would be more open to verbal abuse.

Maybe plugging those "holes" in one's presentation would help?

Taking the lane also means that you're saying "I ain't moving, you go around me". I wonder if many of the people who get abused are riding too far to the right, or they aren't keeping a really good line, speed, and cadence.

You "wonder"? Not "keeping a really good line, speed, and cadence" or not decked out like you? BS!

Based on your above commentsYou "know" (just like the abusers) that those cyclists bring abuse on themselves for not fitting the approved profile of a real cyclist :rolleyes: , like you. Maybe mandatory training conducted by real cyclists like yourself :rolleyes: , with your attitude, will fix things right up. :rolleyes:

[DataJunkie]

I wear everything from lycra\jersey to baggy shorts and a dirty t shirt. Maybe not everything... I can't seem to ride in jeans.
I have not noticed any difference with how I am treated by motorists. Now if I move over into the gutter then things change.
I think the kit thing is a load. It's how you ride not what you are dressed in that makes a difference, at least in my area.

[San Rensho]

San Rensho, I know from previous posts that you're an attorney. If I were in your cycling shoes, here's what I would do: I'd organize. Many states have laws against motorist harassment of cyclists. For example, I know that it's illegal to throw any object at a cyclist in at least one state (can't remember which state, though). If I were a cycling attorney in Florida, I would probably know other cycling attorneys, and I'll bet they've all got a harassment story to tell. So I'd organize them. Get every attorney in the state who rides. In that group, you're guaranteed to have Republicans and Democrats, and you're guaranteed to have some heavy-hitters-- people with connections. And then, when they're organized, you present an anti-harassment statute to the legislature. One that addresses the issues, and has some teeth. If anybody can get a law like that passed, it would be a bipartisan group of attorneys who ride. If it doesn't pass the first time it's presented, present it the next session, and keep presenting it until it passes. That's what I'd do.

Does a law stop people from being jerks? Sometimes. And sometimes not. But it gives us some recourse, which is more than you've got in Florida right now.

Good point. I do know a couple of big shot attorneys that also ride, a couple even commute.

I think getting laws passed in Florida so that cyclists can treat a stop sign as a yield and a red light as a "stop then proceed if clear" would also be great. Other states have this law and apparently it works well. Then cyclists like me and many others on the board can ride as we do, running red lights and stop signs when its safe to do so but never interfering with traffic, and therefore not break the law and not suffer the wrath of the almighty VC.

If that law ever got passed, cyclists could also lobby for an education campaign to introduce the law that would tell drivers about the new law and also send a "share the road" message to drivers.

[LittleBigMan]

I hear a car come up slowly behind me and when she's in my blind spot, she starts honking and then moves up next to me. It looks as if she's having an epileptic fit. Her arms are flaying, pointing towards the right, her head is jerking back and forth, absolutely ranting.

I get over half a mile down the road and sure enough, she does the same thing, waits till she's in my blind spot and blasts the horn again. This time her conniptions are even greater, she's bouncing around in the seat, waving maniacally.
I've had that happen, too. I chalk it up to the lunatic fringe.

On a daily basis, though, most people seem to know how to behave.

[San Rensho]

Don't want to disappoint you, so running the red was your fault. There is no logical connection between your experience of this obviously ignorant and ill-tempered driver and your decision to blow the light.

This has nothing to do with promoting VC, but has everything to do with your voluntary reaction. the fact that she was behaving like a tantrum-throwing 3-year old doesn't give you the right to then do something illegal and unwise (and ill-tempered) yourself. In the unlikely event that the police had seen, stopped and charged you, your argument would have cut no ice with the court.

In case you think I'm doing the holier than thou thing, I've also sworn at, given the V sign (UK) to drivers and gone bananas as a result of bad or aggressive driving. But still wouldn't regard illegal riding on my part as justified, except in extreme emergency to save my life/health/wellbeing.

I wasn't running the red light to spite her, nor did I think what she did to me justified running the red light. I always run red lights when it clear, safe to go, and I don't interfere with traffic. I was merely riding the way I always ride.

I just know that the VC are ready to pounce on this issue and I was heading them off at the pass.

[ItsJustMe]

I also ride in all kinds of stuff, though I don't own any team gear (why people would pay extra to be a billboard...) My top end is a Nashbar jersey and shorts. At the other end, I'll wear jeans and a t-shirt to go just a few miles to grab some lunch from work. I haven't noticed any difference in treatment. The roads I ride on when in jeans are much busier than those in the other direction, towards home.

[webist]

:eek: VC? VC? Do you ride the Ho Chi Minh Trail?

[CTAC]

I'm commuting 7 months so far, first 8 miles one way, now 12 miles. In seven months I never had anything like confrontation. Drivers do make mistakes, but I'm driving myself, too, and I can predict their behavior. I'm trying to make sure that I'm well seen, I leave no space for passing me closely, i.e. motorists have to change the lane to pass, not just to sqeeze in. Another thing is that here, in Silicon Valley, we have lots of people riding and drivers are more aware toward us then in some rural states. We have lots of bicycle lanes, too. Practically every major street, except for El Camino Real have a bicycle lane with no parking. I annoyed more with motorists yielding right of way when the should not, but I still smile and wave to them.

[Woodog]

I had a close encounter with a van a couple of weeks ago. I was clawing my way 25 miles south into a brisk headwind (21mph steady, gusts to 40) just so I could ride back with the wind helping me out.

A huge van pulled alongside me on a narrow country road, matched my speed at the time (10mph - I was struggling just to keep the bike on the road at times) and rolled down the window. The driver yelled at me that I was crazy. I smiled and yelled back, my kid thinks so!

He yelled again - 'do you wanna draft for a few miles?'

Me (yelling over the wind)... sure! Can you give me 25 for about 5 miles?

And so he did. Never saw him before or since.

I smiled again

[spandexwarrior]

:eek: VC? VC? Do you ride the Ho Chi Minh Trail?
Cute joke. There is irony to it. One reason the Vietcong were so successful against the Americans was they used bicycles to transport supplies. I read this in the Bike Cult (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785764372/sr=8-1/qid=1141323887/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-6810040-1591347?%5Fencoding=UTF8) book. These were less visible than trucks to the American airmen. I'm sure if Helmet Head was back there then, he would have lectured the VC about riding VC on the Ho Chi Minh trail.

[slagjumper]

It happens. More and more it is a woman who is going honking mad.

Case 1: 15mph road with speed bumps. Woman beeps then yells the a word. I call her a "road whxxx" and move on with my life.

Case 2: 25 mph road, with traffic jamming at a business district 1000 feet away. I was going 22, and somewhat over to the right, then I saw the woman in the suv being tentative about passing, so I took up the whole lane, (she was still 100 feet behind me, 500 feet to the jam). She starts honking and gesticulating, then passes me fully in the oncomming lane. I pass her in 20 seconds later while she is in traffic that takes 4 minutes to go a block.

Case 3: In an block long, 12 foot wide alley near my house. I start pedaling and after 30 seconds an old man in a small p/u truck wants to pass me in the alley! but he is real tentative and jerky so I take up the whole lane, going 23. The idoit decides he is going to pass, so he starts hiting cement driveway ramps and garbage cans. OK I give up, I pull over and let him rage down the alley.

[genec]

You "wonder"? Not "keeping a really good line, speed, and cadence" or not decked out like you? BS!

Based on your above commentsYou "know" (just like the abusers) that those cyclists bring abuse on themselves for not fitting the approved profile of a real cyclist :rolleyes: , like you. Maybe mandatory training conducted by real cyclists like yourself :rolleyes: , with your attitude, will fix things right up. :rolleyes:

SBHIKES touched on the reality. In any environment "looking the part" helps one fit in. In a major big city, looking like a "real cyclist :rolleyes:" invokes a certain image, one that can be appreciated by fellow commuters that drive H3s that never leave the road... it is strictly an image thing, but indeed, the image matters. That "professional" cyclist image can be maintained with any numbers of different "styles" from "real" to "commuter" (yellow vest, helmet, etc.) to "office" (suit, helmet, etc.)

This is image thing is just as valid out in the rural areas too... Something ILTB somewhat denies, but at the same time he also choses to mock the "real cyclist :rolleyes:" image because to him, in his area, it does not fit... something closer to Levis work better in his riding area... I.E. the uniform changes to fit the environment of what is acceptable.

And while wearing skin tight shiney full length tights into that C&W bar in Wyoming may just not be the right "uniform" for the moment... wearing a T shirt and jeans while riding in downtown San Francisco may also invoke somewhat negative responses from the locals.

And while some may chose to balk at this notion... Consider office wear in various places around the country and how stupid it really is, and yet we easily conform to these subtle rules due to the ready acceptance we as humans desire. In California, I wear shorts and Hawaiian shirts to do my engineering work... but if I fly to some other states, I am expected to put on anything from Dockers to button down shirt and a tie... depending on the state and the task. We find no problem with this... but in the minds of some, "dressing for success" for cycling invokes mockery.

[randya]

I think that in some regions the full team jersey outfit would invite more abuse. But I agree that looking good can help. Like HH says, he sometimes gets compliments from people about how "professional" he looks on his bike. So, team kit or slacks, a shirt and a briefcase. Maybe fashion can help.
I find that I actually get more respect from motorists when I'm riding something different, like a chopper or a minibike, than I do when I'm on a more conventional bike. As far as my outfit, I stay away from lycra, logo jerseys and bike-dork Burley rain gear, street clothes in basic black for me, Timbuk 2 bag.

[chocula]

This has formed the basis for my opinion that motorists are really poorly trained and that some further education needs to be given to motorists after they have gotten over the initial shock of learning how to drive. (Much like we teach "literature" long after we teach "reading.")

This also forms my opinion that many motorists do not view cyclists as fellow road users but more like obstacles to be avoided. We are obviously human... it is quite easy to see this while we ride... yet we are often treated as if we are nothing more than some object in the way... like a wayward sign post.

I agree with this and would like to suggest that there is a sociological component that goes along with the educational. Let me explain.

I suspect that many of the folks on this board, who are my age (37) or older, have very fond memories of riding bicycles far and wide as children. For me, a bicycle meant independence and the ability to transcend the boundaries of my neighborhood. My friends and I walked a lot, too.

However, I would suggest that many new motorists have not had similar experiences. When they were too young to drive, they were driven everywhere. And now that they are old enough, well, they drive themselves everywhere. They have graduated from the back seat to the passenger seat to the driver's seat. Their entire perspective on the built environment has been viewed through a lens called a windshield. And I think this limits these new drivers' capacity to identify with and respond appropriately to pedestrians and cyclists they encounter while motoring about.

I was involved with a pedestrian advocacy group and one of the messages it used was "You are a pedestrian, too." The purpose was to underscore to drivers that they too would ocassionally need to cross the street on foot and would like some courtesy from other motorists. However, I'm not sure such a message has the same resonance with younger people, whose main pedestrian experience is walking from the parking lot into the store. Even fewer have spent time with their hands on the handlebars of bicycles.

More and more people truly do not know what it's like to walk or ride a bicycle in an urban or suburban environment. And that means they really don't understand the people who do. And that often makes them suspicious of us. And suspicion breeds fear. And fear breeds...