Touring - Tents for touring

Hello all,

I am the owner/designer of the Tarptent product line. Forgive this hiker's intrusion into the bike touring lair but I am looking for a little feedback about shelter needs for bike touring. Not having been on a long bike tour, I would very much like to get a sense of how the shelter needs of hikers differ from the shelter needs of people doing bike tours.

We get interest from people doing bike tours and one specific request that comes up is for shorter poles to fit bike panniers--something we can accomodate now with a special pole order. My understanding is that most bike panniers will accomodate about a 15" long tent stuffsack. Is that correct or is there a longer/shorter maximum length? Do panniers vary much in size and do most bike people doing bike tours use panniers or do many people opt for trailers?

How important is free-standing vs. fully stakeable without extra poles? I'm well aware that bikers don't carry trekking poles.

Is ultralight important or is weight, give or take a pound or two, really not that important?

Do most bike tourers opt for solo shelters or are 2-person shelters more prevalent/useful?

Do you bring your bikes inside a shelter or just cover them up in the rain at night or just leave them out (because your shelter wont cover them)?

Are there any other "gotta have" features in the current list of available shelters and/or are there features that you need (and can't find) to make your touring shelter work better?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Henry Shires
Tarptent

We get interest from people doing bike tours and one specific request that comes up is for shorter poles to fit bike panniers--something we can accomodate now with a special pole order. My understanding is that most bike panniers will accomodate about a 15" long tent stuffsack. Is that correct or is there a longer/shorter maximum length?


15" will work. A little shorter is nicer if you just want to strap them to the top of the bike's rack and not have too much overhang, but isn't critical. Most bicycle racks are about 14" long on top.



Do panniers vary much in size and do most bike people doing bike tours use panniers or do many people opt for trailers?

Panniers vary a lot in size. They are still more common than trailers, but trailers are popular when used offroad or with tandems. Those who are after light weight (and thus more likely to be a customer for your product) are more likely to use panniers. 2 panniers, a front rack, and a saddlebag is about half the weight of the lightest commercial trailers.


How important is free-standing vs. fully stakeable without extra poles? I'm well aware that bikers don't carry trekking poles.

Free-standing is a little more important with cycling because the tent is much more likely to be used in a campground or in a picnic shelter than it would be for a backpacker. On the other hand you can usually find areas to put stakes and freestanding means more poles so more weight.


Is ultralight important or is weight, give or take a pound or two, really not that important?

Any tent that I buy I like to be able to use for both cycling and backpacking. So light weight is still important. A pound is okay, two or three is starting to get noticable.


Do most bike tourers opt for solo shelters or are 2-person shelters more prevalent/useful?

I'd be more likely to purchase a 2 person shelter. When cycling solo the weight increase isn't huge and the space is nice. When backpacking it allows me to share the shelter with my wife or another hiker.


Do you bring your bikes inside a shelter or just cover them up in the rain at night or just leave them out (because your shelter wont cover them)?

I leave them outside uncovered (after all it'll be uncovered when I'm riding it). On the touring list (http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/touring) there is some desire by cyclists to bring their bikes inside the tent. I think that a tent big enough to cover my bike would be heavier than I'd want to carry.

Marmot made a cyclist specific tent which did hold a bike and it only stayed on the market for a year.


Are there any other "gotta have" features in the current list of available shelters and/or are there features that you need (and can't find) to make your touring shelter work better?

My priorities are always:
* decent space for two (35+sqft is usually good)
* steep enough walls that I'm not bumping into them all the time
* <4lbs for a 2 person shelter that is sealed from bugs
* enough height to sit up
* good ventilation

My current shelters are a Hennessey Hammock for solo touring and a Eureka Zeus Exo 3 for touring. The Exo 3 is sold as a 3 person tent and weighs about 5lbs. The Exo 2 would be big enough, but I didn't think it was tall enough. The Hennessey Hammock is great as long as I know that I can find trees.

alex

hey there,

it is cool that a tent manufacturer is taking an interest in us cycletourists!!! well done!

panniers do vary in size, as there are many makes and models ... personally i carry my tent horizontally on the rear rack.
however, i have recently seen a guy carry his tent poles lashed to his downtube and the tent was folded and packed away ...

lightweight is good, but i prefer to sty dry and comfy even if it is a few hundred grams more ... some folks are weight weenies!

i prefer a two man tent ... on solo tours there is more room to spread out, and the tent is till crammed with me and all my gear ... on trips with 2 people, the gear goes out into the small vestibules, or under a seperate tarp if there isn't room ...

freestanding or fully stakeable??? ... ummmm, you would be surprised what cycletourists carry on tours with them! no real preference really ...

my bike lives outside, chained ot a fence or a tree or something close to the tent, and just covered with a small tarp ...

a bigger vestibule area would be a good bonus and something i have looked for in a tent for ages ...

i had a rei nitelite which i sold and got a bigger tent when my daughter started coming toruing with me ... the new tent is a dome tent which has a little more headroom but there is very little storage area for panniers and stuff when there is the two of us ...

cheers,
hoogie
timaru/oamaru, new zealand

Hi Henry,
I'm looking into getting into mountain touring this year, so while I'm not yet a tourer, my background in Industrial Design has got me doing a lot of research and often coming up empty when it comes to products I think would be great.

I'm convinced that the BOB trailer is the way to go for mountain touring, but I'm guessing most bike tourers still use panniers for whatever reason. Because of this, I'm thinking shorter corded poles would be advantageous.

A company called Topeak I believe incorporates the bike into the structure of the tent, but I haven't looked into this design. Seems sensible in theory, but I don't know.

Weight is definitely an issue. Most lightweight fully featured tents weigh about 2-2.5kgs, and as every gram you lug up a big hill matters, I don't think many tourers would be keen on any design that's much heavier than that. I'd hazard a guess the trend overall is towards more lightweight, minimalist touring. The trend in hiking is the same. The more weight you carry the more tired you become, the more food you have to eat/carry etc.

I bought the Squall II tarptent about a year ago and plan on using it for my upcoming Summer tour. I ordered it with the sewn-in floor and two poles as I did not have any trekking poles at the time.

I was recently thinking about getting another lightweight freestanding tent that would pack down small enough to fit into my panniers, but decided that the Tarptent will work fine strapped to the rear rack, plus I didn't feel like spending another $200-$300. The height on my rear ortliebs is listed as 16.5 inches.

A freestanding option would be nice actually. Obviously that will mean more weight, but when you look at the weight of all of the other freestanding tents that are advertised as lightweight, you'll see that you have some room to work with.

I think most bikee tourers opt for 2 person tents simply because the solo tents have no room for gear. My ortlieb panniers are waterproof, but I still plan on taking them inside the tent with me. If it were a solo plus room for gear (four panniers and a handlebar bag), that would probably be enough, it doesn't have to actually have space for two bodies.

Some people cover their bikes, but I believe most people just lock em up next to a tree or picnic table. I thought about trying to rig something up that would incorporate the bike into the shelter support. Like a teepee or A-frame type shelter with the bike in the center. The only thing with that is figuring out a way to make sure the bike stays upright. You could lock the brakes with a velcro strap and then attach a long brace or two to the top tube maybe and then stake out the four corners. That would work for the weather, but then you still got the bugs to deal with.

I may try this out on a weekend trip before I leave, but I'm happy with the Squall II as it is. You've made a great product. It could be better suited for touring (pannier packable, etc.) but I'm sure it will keep me dry and bug free at night.

The size of the stuff sack isn't important because you can use any sack you please, I use a plastic shopping type bag (strong one) and put the tent in the bottom of my pannier. It fits better if it's a bit loose.

I used a Sierra Designs Light Year CD, a small 1 person tent (3 lbs.) last year in the Rockies. It rained a lot and snowed a bit, really it was quite uncomfortable in a small tent without room for all my gear. In a small tent you can't separate things that are wet or muddy very easily, I used a plastic garbage bag to put wet things in and put that under the edge of the tent fly. A vestibule is nice if big enough to be useful. I will use a 2 person tent in the future, unfortunately mine weights about 5 lbs. I'd prefer a tent that was in between for my self ~ 4lbs. Free-standing is not important as it adds weight.

I'm excited to hear that you are looking to do something for cycle tourists. here is my wish list

1) Keep it light, 2 to 3 lbs, cycle tourists are now going ultralight and carrying under 30lbs of gear
2) Free standing would be great
3) If the tent is below 3lbs I'd get the 2 person as the extra space is nice
4) A big front break to cover the bike would be fantastic!!!!!!!!
5) I'd prefer a 1 person tent with a big front break, to cover the bike, over a 2 person tent
6) 15" long is ok as most tourists will put it on top of the rear rack.

Hi, Henry.

Tents:

I've been bike touring with a backcountry bias for 20 years, started backwoods bike touring with the first mountain bikes in the mid eighties, and done hundreds of nights out on backcountry and ski mountaineering tours, mountain rescue, gear tester for one of the Seattle companies, etc...

I think light weight and compact size are what a bike tourist is looking for (who isn't?)

I've used a hoop tent (North Face Westwind) a Black Diamond Lighthouse, a Betamid, and just tarps as well as many other tents over the years.

I think your average bike tourist wants mosquito netting and a floor, and free standing is a big plus. Keeping it under 5 pounds is ideal, many people will be looking for a shelter that weighs 2-3 pounds but your average rider would go for a clip flashlight weight for sure.

The MSR Velo is way too much tent and vestibule. Maybe if it was silicon coated with mesh and ferruless poles, but otherwise, too much of a pig.

As much floor space as a two person tent for one person is nice to sort panniers. The BD Lighthouse is coming in as a nearly ideal bike touring tent. I bought one over a year ago. The weight, the packed size, and the interior floor space and headroom are almost ideal. Nice full door and the window vent under the awning is real nice for a cross breeze.

Epic has worked well even in some heavy rains here in the NW. It rained on me this weekend bike camping with the Lighthouse. Concerns over the long term durability of the tent and Epic's performance remain. The Bibler Toddtex version of this tent is too much winter bias for a bike tent.

The BD Lighthouse poles pack at 15.5" but if they were 2-3 inches shorter they would become even more packable for the cyclotourist. I'm trying to pack my shelter, sleeping bag and tarps, etc, all inside the front panniers and a little shorter pole would be a big benefit.

Having a bike 'garage' is something many cyclotourists desire, but not at the expense of a lot of weight. I'd suggest trying a hanging silicone vestibule off a brow pole, if you can cantilever it far enough out to cover a bike. I think also having the vestibule removable via toggles, a zipper or other fastener would be nice.

In addition, the vestibule could be more of a freeform tarp, that could be staked away from the tent, close in reefed, or removed entirely. It wouldn't have to be canterary cut. It may not even have to be full coverage, but some would want a full enclosure to hide the bikes completely.

Maybe trying an arched monopole, like the new Montbells, the old Dana? parawing tarp shelters, or the Marmot Area 51, but lever the pole to one side to make a canopy space for the bike, maybe like the Hilleberg 1 person tent, but with the pole oriented lengthwise. Lets the tent interior be free hanging and adjustable to accomodate the bike.

But the height of the vestibule would be important. I ride an average size bike (56 cm or 22") and it stands at almost 42" high on its kickstand (I just measured it). I think using a brow pole would mabye allow you to raise it up, or else those awning poles on the old VE-24's.

Oh, ya, here's one I'm working on, I'm adding 3 foot walls to this one. Big enough to park a bike, stand up and party in. I'm using a BD 'mid as the canopy, call it cheating, but I'm no tent designer!


Hope this helps!

Hello Henry -

Thanks for soliciting input.

I've been looking at your products for a while now, and i first have a question and then some comments. I was unable to figure this out from the info at your site.

Q - If you opt for no floor, how do you keep the bugs out? Does the no floor tarptent come with mesh attached to the sides, then you just marry it up to your tyvek, or does the floorless version simply do away with the perimeter mesh?

Biking vs bp comment - A pound on the bike/trailer is not nearly as noticeable as a pound on the back. Bicycle tourists are generally not as weight concious as backpackers. This gives you a lot more options in designing the shelter compared to your current products. You can make it bigger and/or cheaper. I'll carry an extra pound or two in my pack to be more comfortable, so its almost nothing as bike cargo.

Suggestions

1. Make roof a bit higher so not jamming your head into it constantly. Steep walls help too. Look at that s-d reverse combi idea. Of course this leads you to...

2. Freestanding is a good idea. There are shelters along the more popular cycle touring routes with concrete floors. Some folk camp indoors in gyms, warehouses, wherever. Some folks go to alaska and camp on deck of ferry for 5 days. Freestanding shelters would have a real edge over your current products in these situations. Freestanding tents also give you options for gear loft. Good way to organize / dry stuff for forced extended rain stays.

3. Make the floor from a white or bright yellow colored material so you can see better, plus makes tent seem less claustrophic. Older folks need more light to see, that black stuff makes it look and feel like a cave. I have a black pack, can never find stuff in there, have to dump it all out and reload (esp when i'm inside a black tent). BTW I love the grey exterior of your current tarptents, please don't change, keep it low visibility.

3.5. Shelter needs to be bug proof. Absolutely essential in mt, co, wy, mn, mi, ak. Nearly everwhere i guess.

4. To me pole length not a big deal, doesnt have to fit in pannniers. Can always strap on top of rack/bags and hang off the back.

5. Offer an economy version with less expensive nylon floor / wall material. It may only be me, but i feel uncomfortable with silnylon as a floor, doesn't seem very tough to me for this job. How about a snap-in / velcro-in replaceable tyvek floor. Eureka sells a ton tents because they're inexpensive. There is a clone of their backcountry 2 model (i think) that sells in walmart for $70-80. Bicycle touring is frequently a very low budget vacation style.

5. IMO shelter doesn't really need to cover the entire bike, just the seat and maybe the chain, rest of it is impervious to water. Your rain jacket / poncho / rain cape can do this job. Adding a garage to the tent seems excessive/wasteful to me in terms of weight/packing space/cost. Also you need to be to lock bike to a tree/grill/table, putting it in tent may hide it from view but does not provide any real security (actually the lock provides little security). Some folks use small tarp to cover bike with panniers attached, solves the whole problem. Also covers reflectors / reflective material when camping in ways that are not completely kosher with the policy of various federal agencies.

6. To me those solo shelters are too small to use for anything more than a few days. I use 2 person tents and even they seem pretty small.

Hello all,

I am the owner/designer of the Tarptent product line. Forgive this hiker's intrusion into the bike touring lair but I am looking for a little feedback about shelter needs for bike touring. Not having been on a long bike tour, I would very much like to get a sense of how the shelter needs of hikers differ from the shelter needs of people doing bike tours.

Henry, it's great to have you here. As you might know recreational cycling is growing quickly in the US and with it, bicycle touring. The following site hosts touring journals and the number of journals there has nearly doubled in the last year. http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/ To have a tent designer here asking for input on a new model is a awesome, especially Tarptent which already has a loyal following among the lightweight crowd.

We get interest from people doing bike tours and one specific request that comes up is for shorter poles to fit bike panniers--something we can accomodate now with a special pole order. My understanding is that most bike panniers will accomodate about a 15" long tent stuffsack. Is that correct or is there a longer/shorter maximum length? Do panniers vary much in size and do most bike people doing bike tours use panniers or do many people opt for trailers?

Most tourers probably don't carry the poles with the rest of the tent. Even if the poles are short this will likely not change. Touring cyclist must split the weight evenly among the two or four panniers. Poles 18" long or shorter are good for me but 15" tent poles would be very popular indeed.
http://www.pbase.com/image/56706894.jpg These are the most popular rear panniers and one of the more popular rear racks. You can see that the pannier on the left is just at 14" and the other just at 15" tall. The Arkel would require turning the poles diagonally but at least they'd fit if that was the desire. The rack will hold items longer than it is. That's where my 18" long tent poles ride, pushed forward toward the seatpost.

How important is free-standing vs. fully stakeable without extra poles? I'm well aware that bikers don't carry trekking poles.

The majority of tourers in the US are going to want free-standing. It's easier to move if you've picked the wrong side of the city park to be on and like Alex said, cycle tourist often find themselves camped on surfaces that you can't stake such as open sided pavilion floors and so on.

Is ultralight important or is weight, give or take a pound or two, really not that important?

Tourers are always looking to save weight just like backpackers do. That said, there are a number of us still carrying big and heavy Moss tents because they take a real beating and are big enough to live in comfortably for several months on the road. It was them that had cover for the bikes with a Velo model but it never was that popular. This is because the whole package was very heavy and the tent body really wasn't very roomy. Hillebergs makes a few tunnel tents that seem to offer the best of both worlds. Roomy for two and room to keep the bikes out of sight; all while coming in at a respectable weight. They even have two photos on their site with two bikes inside the tent's vestibule. These are too expensive for most cyclist to justify though.

Do most bike tourers opt for solo shelters or are 2-person shelters more prevalent/useful?

This one is hard to pin down. There's a vocal bunch that want a very light solo solution and probably just as many or more that use the +1 approach. Small two person tent for solo touring, 3 person tent for two people and so on. Nancy and I bring a couple of panniers in the tent with us in addition to our helmets and handlebar bags. It's also nice to have room to move around in and stretch if the weather pins you down for a few days or one or the other person isn't feeling well.

Do you bring your bikes inside a shelter or just cover them up in the rain at night or just leave them out (because your shelter wont cover them)?

I'd say at least half or more tourers don't cover their bikes and it's a weight and space driven decision. My main reason for wanting the bikes out of sight is lesser chances of theft. We like to leave camp to go walking or hiking. How many backpackers would leave their packs outside the tent when they're gone 100% of the time if they had the room to keep them out of sight?

Are there any other "gotta have" features in the current list of available shelters and/or are there features that you need (and can't find) to make your touring shelter work better?

Watertight, good ventilation, relatively light and something that you can have confidence in during a wind storm. I think if you took a survey of all touring cyclist, those would be the most common concerns. Price and pole length too. The holy grail of touring tents.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Henry Shires
Tarptent

Thank you!

Howdy Henry - I have a Cloudburst 2 that I got in December staring at me right now - just waiting to be used. I think it might suit my bike touring needs to a T - it's a little bigger than the 2 person tent my wife and I have been using, but is half the weight. Sorry - this doesn't answer any of your questions, but you may have already designed the ideal bike touring tent. I'll let you know . . .

Howdy Henry - I have a Cloudburst 2 that I got in December staring at me right now - just waiting to be used. I think it might suit my bike touring needs to a T - it's a little bigger than the 2 person tent my wife and I have been using, but is half the weight. Sorry - this doesn't answer any of your questions, but you may have already designed the ideal bike touring tent. I'll let you know . . .

http://www.pbase.com/image/44642860.jpg

Well then there's a photo of some folks using one to hold you over 'til your next tour. A Cloudburst is on my short list of considerations for our Switzerland trip. Not going to lug the Moss Titan around the Alps. I'll be carrying too much weight in photo-journaling gear to also manage a heavy tent.

A word of thanks for a tent company wanting to address the needs of bicycle tourists :beer:

I'm a hammocker myself, but with any shelter:

<5lbs is a must
freestanding (my part of the country there is forest floor to the south and west or rocky terrain to the north and east)
tent poles: I'd keep them in a separate place probably strapped on top the rack or something
I'd like to see Hennessy Style "Snake Skins" as opposed to a stuffsack. That way you could wrap the tent around the bike frame. That would eliminate the need to take up space in the panniers.

Panniers range from <1000 cu in (pair) to over >5,000 cu in. (pair). 2500 cu in (pair) is about average. I always think of Arkel's T-42s (http://www.arkel-od.com/panniers/t42/overview.asp?fl=1&site=) as being a benchmark set of bicycle panniers.

Hello all,

I am the owner/designer of the Tarptent product line. Forgive this hiker's intrusion into the bike touring lair but I am looking for a little feedback about shelter needs for bike touring. Not having been on a long bike tour, I would very much like to get a sense of how the shelter needs of hikers differ from the shelter needs of people doing bike tours.

Thanks for asking. All of the opinions are mine. I make no claim to speak for anyone else.

We get interest from people doing bike tours and one specific request that comes up is for shorter poles to fit bike panniers--something we can accomodate now with a special pole order. My understanding is that most bike panniers will accomodate about a 15" long tent stuffsack. Is that correct or is there a longer/shorter maximum length? Do panniers vary much in size and do most bike people doing bike tours use panniers or do many people opt for trailers?

Personally, I never packed a tent in a pannier. It always rides on the rear on top of my panniers and rack, along with my sleeping bag and ground pad, all suitably bagged, of course.

How important is free-standing vs. fully stakeable without extra poles? I'm well aware that bikers don't carry trekking poles.

Free-standing is better - more flexible in application. But make it stakable, in case of wind.

Is ultralight important or is weight, give or take a pound or two, really not that important?

Depends on who you are aiming at. For a few days or a week, I'm more concerned about keeping weight down to a bare minimum. For longer trips, some extra total weight of all gear is expected, and I am more likely to tolerate a somewhat heavier tent if it means extra durability - a two-week-plus trip is a major investment in time (and in my case, lost income), so it cannot go south because of equipment failures.

Do most bike tourers opt for solo shelters or are 2-person shelters more prevalent/useful?

I have always opted for a pretty spacious two-man tent. I like having all my gear (other than the bike) inside with me.

Do you bring your bikes inside a shelter or just cover them up in the rain at night or just leave them out (because your shelter wont cover them)?

The bike sleeps outside. I have sometime had a purpose-made plastic bike cover along, but I have never tried to bring the bike inside a tent and am hard-pressed to imagine when I would on a tour. Inside a motel, absolutely. Inside a tent, no.

Are there any other "gotta have" features in the current list of available shelters and/or are there features that you need (and can't find) to make your touring shelter work better?

The other posters have hit it pretty well. Bug-proof is essential. Ditto water-proof. Good ventilation is only a tiny little bit less important.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Good luck in this venture. Very smart piece of thinking, by the way, getting the benefit of a free focus group of bikies. :)

Henry Shires
Tarptent

Also, Topeak tried to come up with a bike touring tent, but in my opinion they failed pretty bad....

https://shop.sunrisecyclery.com/item-picture/15568/picture
No one wants to take off their front tire every night and what happens when you want to go for a ride after setting up camp? You gotta break camp to get the bike back together.

I think the Black Diamond MegaLight or Betalight with a built in floor and bug netting would be great....
http://www.bdel.com/images/gear/800508_mega_light.jpg

Hello all,

I am the owner/designer of the Tarptent product line. Forgive this hiker's intrusion into the bike touring lair but I am looking for a little feedback about shelter needs for bike touring. Not having been on a long bike tour, I would very much like to get a sense of how the shelter needs of hikers differ from the shelter needs of people doing bike tours.

We get interest from people doing bike tours and one specific request that comes up is for shorter poles to fit bike panniers--something we can accomodate now with a special pole order. My understanding is that most bike panniers will accomodate about a 15" long tent stuffsack. Is that correct or is there a longer/shorter maximum length? Do panniers vary much in size and do most bike people doing bike tours use panniers or do many people opt for trailers?

How important is free-standing vs. fully stakeable without extra poles? I'm well aware that bikers don't carry trekking poles.

Is ultralight important or is weight, give or take a pound or two, really not that important?

Do most bike tourers opt for solo shelters or are 2-person shelters more prevalent/useful?

Do you bring your bikes inside a shelter or just cover them up in the rain at night or just leave them out (because your shelter wont cover them)?

Are there any other "gotta have" features in the current list of available shelters and/or are there features that you need (and can't find) to make your touring shelter work better?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Henry Shires
Tarptent

Henry,

Nice of you to ask our opinions. I hope the input helps you. For my part, I currently use a tarp with a net tent (Ray-Way). I use this for both bike touring and backpacking. Incidentally, I have hauled a pair of trekking poles on my bike multiple times. I can't tell you how many times fellow riders asked about the "ski poles" strapped to my saddlebag. I've hauled my tarp on week long trips in the midwest, and around the desert in Big Bend both on my bike and on my back.

I am of the opinion that the needs of a bike tourer and backpacker are very similar. For me, ultralight is very important. I like to travel with about 20lbs of gear and am working toward lighter weight on the bike. The shelter is, obviously, a significant proportion of that total. A pound or two extra will eliminate your tent from my consideration. Many people don't care much about touring weight, but like a lot of ultralight backpackers, getting the least weight is part of the fun. I use a Carradice Camper Longflap saddlebag (www.wallbike.com has details) and strap long items, like poles to the outside of the bag. For me, poles ideally would not be wider than this saddlebag. A tent that does not require poles at all and could be attached to nearby trees or other supports would be a big plus.

Freestanding, although nice, is not a requirement. As a ray-way tarp user, I've gotten accustomed to pounding stakes with my cycling shoes.

Because I do much touring in summertime, ventillation and bug resistance is of prime importance. I have considered one of your tarptents but with the foot end so small my impression is that the tent will not have as good of ventillation as a simpler shaped tarp. I have also found that noseeum netting significantly restricts airflow in low wind conditions so I would like any bug netting to be able to be tied out of the way or removed altogether when bugs are not an issue and/or light wind conditions.

I have no need to keep a bike inside a tent. The bikes we use generally do not need to be protected from occaisional rain and a touring bike gets pretty dirty so it's best left outside.

I like a two person tent size to allow room for gear without being cramped. A single person tent seems too small to me even though it might be a few ounces lighter. A single person tent also seems like it will have less ventillation.

Privacy is not a concern for me. I'm sure it is for many, but I would prefer lighter weight over a couple extra flaps of material that just block the airflow.

Have you considered spinnaker fabric for a tarptent? From what I have seen, some of the spinnaker tarps are exceptionally lightweight. I have not used any of these yet though I understand that they do require more careful handling than silnylon. But if the weight is low enough, it might be worth it.

Other nice-to-have features:

1. Loops to hang a flashlight. preferably in a location good for reading.
2. Small netting pockets and/or an attic to store glasses, keys, wallet, etc.
3. A means of securing a water bottle so it doesn't tip over in the night.
4. Reflective guylines.
5. Good quality stakes. It's annoying to get cheap stakes with a good tent. Maybe a titanium option?
6. Small patch kit with matching fabric.
7. An iPod pocket (everything else has one these days!).

If you need a prototype tester, I'd be happy to lend a hand. Just PM me. :)

Henry, welcome! Nice to be appreciated :)

I echo most of the above. I carry the tent horizontally on the rear rack; park the bike outside; take my panniers inside. Also important is being able to seal and lock it for an unloaded ride into town, or a day hike.

The must-have features for me are: room for two (or bags), dry, warm, configurable ventilation (cool) when you need it. And did I mention DRY and WARM. Then I look for reasonable weight.

Packable dimensions, free-standing, vestibule, all the extras are secondary. If it doesn't meet the must-haves, it's not for me.

My ideal touring tent is a Sierra Design Flashlight. I've never been wet in it. I believe the key (besides the tub floor) is the excellent fly design. I think a tent with a wrap-around mesh (your TarpTent has this?) would have problems here. The Flashlight is reasonable weight (~5 lbs?), fits two plus our panniers, has good sit-up height. When I retire it, I hope there's still choices out there.

All that may be obvious, and probably matches a backpacker's requirements, too. The big difference between backpacking and bike touring is the range of camping conditions. On a backpack trip, I aim for the mountains for two weeks; or for dry canyons; or rain forest. I actually have three tents and I can choose which one for which trip. On a one-month bike tour you can go from Mt. Olympus to Hells Canyon to Logan Pass -- rain to oven to snow.

Thus: dry, cool, warm. All in one tent. Can it be done??? I'm still a believer in a tent fly, because it helps with all three; a fly-less tent would be lighter, of course. But sacrificing the must-haves just to save weight is not an option.

-- Mark

Wow, hillarious. I just picked up a tarptent kit from Thru-hiker last week. Regardless, everything I wanted to say has been said, and I'd like to echo the comment about a larger vestibule being a good option, but not a requirement. I can think of no better way to while away a rainy afternoon than pulling the bike in out of the rain to allow me to make adjustments, clean, and generally tinker with it.

I'd like a camouflage color scheme for us stealth campers.

I have done a number of tours that I use a tent to overnight with. Most of my tours but not all are with groups and my equipment is transported for me. However the compactness of the folding up tent is still important.
The greatest important to me is it abililty to stand up to extreme weather. Last Spring while riding across Kansas we had extreme weather with heavy rains and very strong winds. My tent which has never failed me before did fail me on the tour. It rains so hard and the wind blew so strong that the rain went right thru the tent and the wind just slid the tent down the poles and just laid down on top of me with the poles still standing. I had to evacute my tent two nights in a row.
I am looking for a new tent but it must first be able to handle high winds and heavy rains above all else.
While I had a lot of companions that were also tent camping and a lot of them had their tents to leak real bad like my did, but none had there tents collasped as mine did.
Doug

Lots of good suggestions above. My main criteria are:
1. waterproof
2. storm proof
3. large vestibule for wet pannier storage and cooking
4. weight
5. pack rainfly seperate from innertent and poles. Rainfly will often be carried wet untill early afternoon when I find a place to dry it.

Wow, thanks very much to all of you! Just too many responses to bore you all with individual replies in this forum but I read everything thoroughly (and will keep checking back if more responses pop up) and you have given me lots to chew on. We've focused on minimalist, very light shelters for long-distance hiking where every ounce counts but after reading through all the comments I can sense a bit more leeway for slightly heavier designs that better suit bike tourer needs. Points noted about wide range in conditions and camping spaces on bike tours and the need for stormproofness as well as the desire for space. Lots to think about...

Henry

I think the main difference between hikers and tourers is that we (bike tourers) end up in much more varied environment when camping. We could pitch our tent in a city park, on the deck of a ferry, in large organized campgrounds, in a small wood where being invisible is important... And in a single trip the weather can change dramatically since we cover more distance.

As such, I think the best tent would be a fairly adaptable free standing tent. Removable panels, large (detachable?) vestibule for storing panniers and to do the occasional rainy day cooking, etc. Having an extended vestibule option (detachable) for thos who want to bring their bike inside would be nice... The idea is that people could choose to customize their tent to the need of each of their tours. This would add weight but as others have said, 1 pound on your bike is not as bad as one pound on your back. Keep in mind that a bike can lie on its side and that extra space for a bike does not have to be very high above ground.

If I had to choose I would opt for:

- Large vestibule
- Lots of mesh pockets inside
- 2 persons tent
- Easy to set up and pack up (fast!)
- A loop to attach the bike to the tent at night
- A low profile look (the tent should not look expensive or have flashy colors)

The biggest differences between Bike touring and Backpacking (I do both) are that the cycle tourist has a lot more gear than the minimalist backpacker, the cyclist can carry a bit more weight more easily than a backpacker, and the cyclist may have to deal with a wider range of weather conditions.

Most backpackers go out for a weekend, maybe the ocasional longer ~week long trip in the summer, while cycle tourists go for weeks and can't predict what the weather will be. When I'm backpacking everthing is tailored for the conditions, weather forcast, etc. specifically for that trip. A cyclist may be in cities, rural farm areas and wilderness highways/parks so has to carry a lot more clothes and other gear. The tent needs to have room for all this stuff. also, Most cyclists don't want to attract attention to them selves so tents in muted, natural colours are a good idea. I prefer to put everything in my panniers, poles included. So poles that collapse to 15" or less are better. A vestibule to put wet shoes, muddly pannier/pannier covers,etc is a good idea. Tents made of polyester are more UV resistant, are hydrophobic (naturally more water resistant) and don't absorb as much water and stretch like nylon. Nylon being more abrasion resistant is better for floors.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

The most important variable for my tent is weight. I tour long distances and carry very little gear (no tent or sleeping bag so far). The next trip that I am planning, I want to carry a tent and sleeping bag for some of the long legs out west. Those two items must fit into the two rear panniers that I am carrying on my road bike. Since I will likely only use it maybe 10 nights total I will go small (1 person), light weight (3lbs max), secure in the wind(it needs stakes), weatherproof(good floor and rain fly). This seems to put my requirements in line with those of backpackers.

I certainly do not agree with those who have said that for long tours a few extra pounds don't matter. I would think that that is backwards, if I were going only for a few days and a few miles I would more easily agree to more weight. But for thousands of miles, every ounce counts for me. In fact, as soon as I get out of the mountains and into the midwest, I will ship much of my cold weather gear home to lighten the load.

I certainly do not agree with those who have said that for long tours a few extra pounds don't matter. I would think that that is backwards, if I were going only for a few days and a few miles I would more easily agree to more weight. But for thousands of miles, every ounce counts for me. In fact, as soon as I get out of the mountains and into the midwest, I will ship much of my cold weather gear home to lighten the load.

I think the idea is that after a few weeks on the road, especially when camping each night, comfort ranks pretty high on many cyclists' list of priority. While for shorter trips (one or two weeks) people are less likely to complain about their Spartan life.

Another aspect to consider is the type of terrain you'll be crossing... if its hilly then weight matters a lot... if not, weight is only a minor issue.

Just like you, most of us do mail stuff back home when travelling... but many won't compromise a certain level of comfort at night for the sake of saving a few grams here and there...

Of course, if you are concerned solely about your performance - and a good number of cyclists are - that is a different issue... but the way I see it: you have to balance comfort on your bike and comfort off your bike to have a pleasurable trip.

I don’t think most of us said that weight does not matter when bicycle touring… what most of us said is that it matter less than it does for hikers. After all, the whole idea of using wheels is to avoid vertical movement when travelling horizontally.

Very broadly speaking, there are two categories of bike tourists: those who do relatively short tours of less than two weeks duration (i.e., a trip fitting into a typical American vacation slot) and those who do relatively long one-month or longer tours (e.g., Europeans, students, teachers, retirees, etc.). These two different types of tourists will arguably prefer different types of shelters. Tourists on short trips can opt for a shelter that is biased toward lighter weight, smaller footprint, smaller pack size, etc. -- basically something that is easy for a weekend warrior to carry. Longer excursions generally demand more durability, more room, easier pitching -- basically, something that's bombproof and easy to live in, the rider being someone who rides a lot and is probably in good condition. When comparing various design trade-offs, maybe this segmentation will help decide how to bias the choices.

For ultralight, I like tents such as the old-style (pre MSR) Walrus Zoid: http://milly.org/rambouillet/pages/rainy_camp.htm

No panniers. Tent between seatpost and saddlebag. Bag strapped to bars

Weighs under 2 pounds. 18 inches seems too long for the poles. How about 14?

For hard winter, I like an Australian swag, a canvas tube tent with inflatable mattress and 2-pound down bag rolled up inside. Instant setup and breakdown time: just unroll. If raining/snowing, add a short pole at each end and guy out. You don't like to spend a great deal of time tinkering with equipment in the winter, so the extra weight's worth it. I'd love to see a version of the swag in lightweight Bibler tent-type material, though.

I'm a hammocker and I don't 'get' tents at all.

I'm not sure whether you are looking for converts, or are willing to considering designs that don't fit the traditional idea of just what a 'tent' is.

Some in our community tow trailers and like tents with vestibules. I don't get it.

For me it is all about weight, ease, size and comfort, not necessarily in that order.

I'm a hammocker and I don't 'get' tents at all.

I'm not sure whether you are looking for converts, or are willing to considering designs that don't fit the traditional idea of just what a 'tent' is.

Some in our community tow trailers and like tents with vestibules. I don't get it.

For me it is all about weight, ease, size and comfort, not necessarily in that order.

Are you the guy who wrote that big Stealth Camping article on crazyguy? If so let me tell you that is one FREAKIN GOOD ARTICLE! I love that article, man. When is the next update coming?

I'm with you; I'm done with tents. Hammocks all the way. As far as adaptability, I think hammock are a better way to go. I'm planning to make a Speer style hammock after I get my TE Clone built up.

The tent that I have used for touring in the past was a 2 man, I called it a man and a half tent. The tent and poles easily fit on top of my rear rack. I had to carry a seperate ground sheet but I wrapped it around my tent and sleeping bag. For me lightness and compactness are key and I like a tent to be able to be used for short and long tours, so it has to be light but tough. Self standing is also nice.

I have to admit though, that I am looking at getting a hammock because it just seems easier. For now though I will use my tent.

if you could come up with some kind of force field shelter generated by something the size of an ipod, rechargable with a bike generator, well, i think that would be pretty nifty ;)

Very broadly speaking, there are two categories of bike tourists: those who do relatively short tours... and those who do relatively long one-month or longer tours...


Or there are those who camp all the time, those fair-weather campers and those who camp only when hotels are full.

I'd imagine a 5 pound(ish) tent.

More headroom than the average backpacking tent.

A bit more of a vestibule. Someone previously mentioned a removeable vestibule/bike tarp-excellent idea. I'll be trying out a "McGyver" of such on my upcoming 6month+ tour.

Space for a bike inside seems like a good idea initially, but would probably be wasted space for most, most of the time. While vestibule space has many more options, allowing for a smaller tent footprint.

Free standing, yet still stakeable/guyout points for severe weather.

Sized +1 (ie 2 person tent for solo, 3 person for a couple etc). Sometimes all my gear goes inside, sometimes none of it. Obviously would depend upon the size, and type of vestibule though.

Mellow/environmentaly friendly color (not just for "stealth" camping folks).

Some type of tent pole protector/storage "tube". For folks who put poles on the tops of racks-over a days ride I've had individual poles try to "escape" from there bungee position. Poles also have a way of "eating" through bags as they vibrate day in & out while riding. New lightweight poles also seem a bit easy to damage when collapsed.

I think the single most important issue with a bike specific tent is the poles and how they are carried.

It has taken me several years and a number of trips to work out the best option is to carry the poles on the underside of the top tube.

Therefore no single pole should be more than about 45cm/17" but most importantly a tough pole bag is required that has 2 or 3 velcro straps around it and perhaps a long zip and reinforced ends with a velcro strap and buckle to hold the pole bag in place.

The actual tent can then fit anywhere, in panniers or better still on top of the rack especially if it comes with a couple of bages, one for the inner and another for the outer.

At the moment I carry the poles in a conventional pole bag and use a long thin bungee cord to attache the poles to the top tube.

If you look at the photos of the 'loaded rigs' you will notice that in nearly all cases the top tube is 'free space' on the bike

A lot of soloists here, but I tour with my wife and use the tent for non-touring camping too. Since it's my wife and I, a three person is generally preferred so there's space for us and essentials to keep dry.

-3 person sizing (2 people + gear)
-tall enough to sit up
-1 vestibule for muddy or wet shoes
-2 entries are preferred in case one of us has to get up early or late
-freestanding
-at least one interior pocket so we don't squash our glasses

I do both backpacking and bike touring and I think they are very similar with both having weight weenies, comfort seekers and everyone in between. As we've seen here, no one tent will satisfy everyone but you can see some general trends. I have an Alps Mountaineering Mystique 2 (http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/Lightweight%20Tents.htm) that I use for both backpacking and bike touring with my wife and it fits "our" needs very well. It is low profile and has a full coverage fly for big winds and rains. It has 2 doors and 2 vestibules which is great when you have two people. We put our backpacks/panniers in the vestibules and there is also a little extra room in the tent for smaller panniers or bags. It weighs right at 5 pounds and straps on my rear rack very nicely. One negative is that it is not freestanding, but we decided to take that risk and it has not been a problem so far. Another negative for some people would be the headroom, but for us, having it be more windpoof is more important.

Dear Henry, I suspect that you now have pretty good idea that bikers' needs are just as varied as hikers. Nevertheless, they all agree on two things, compactness, and bug proof. I collect tents to suit the types of tour I do. A basic Slumberjack bivy which I love most. I use it with occasional motel overnights. Then I have Euraika back country2 for sag touring. I'm thinking of getting a free standing sleep net to go with Hennessy hammock. This will allow me to sleep under a roof, or between trees. I hope you can come up with two or three radical designs to suit all tastes and needs.

I love my REI Half-Dome tent. Two entrances with vestibules. Plenty of room for gear. Headroom to sit up. Light (a little over 5lbs), well-ventilated. Can be used with just fly and footprint. Nuff said!