Advocacy & Safety - Another good reason not to filter to front of line

While waiting in line behind a few cars at a multlane intersection I witnessed a car going straight plow into another*. The a couple cars flew/slid across three lanes toward me and plowed into the cars in front of me (one of them in the right turn only lane) and then ended up on the sidewalk against the traffic signal post.
I am quite certain that if I had filtered forward and was either ahead of the stopped cars or just to left of the car in the RTOL I would not be here writing this, with a good chance I wouldn't ever be here to tell the story. The two car in front of line were heavily damaged.

Stay tuned for video of post accident (The view of the accident itself was likely blocked by the car in front of me)

*Since I wasn't watching the light I don't know if straight going vehicle ran red or if left turning vehicle didn't yield ROW. I suspect light turned red, person turned left and thru vehicle didn't stop on red.

Just yesterday I came across a motorcycle that had been badly hit at an interection. Firetrucks were already on the scene.

Al

Here is the video

youtube rgYB6ECW3XQ - Left turn collision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgYB6ECW3XQ)

Al

And if you were first in line at the intersection, what would your likely outcome have been without any filtering?

I didn't watch the video, but there's no rationale here for not lane sharing via filtering.

If you had been standing on the sidwalk on the right, you'd be dead. No standing on sidewalks then? What this video tells me is that no matter what you do, sometimes @#$! happens.

I'll still filter . . . I'm glad your okay, but this doesn't prove anything to be honest.

Here is the 5.1MB video, remember to right click, save as... then open from local drive.

Auto Accident (http://www.optionnz.com/users/afs/060303-0702.9055accident.avi)

Al

The file needs the Indeo decoder to play... which appears to cost money. Can you post the video in a different format?

Of course it doesn't prove anything, but I do think that the closer to the intersection one is the more potential danger. Bus stops near intersections quite often get taken out from intersection accidents like this.

But I do think that waiting well in front of line is a bad idea. I witness a good number of cyclists who wait in or even a bit beyond the x-walk after passing vehicle on right then pulling in front of first. When I am in front of line when there are no othre cars I am usually a couple feet back from stop line.

Al

I didn't watch the video, but there's no rationale here for not lane sharing via filtering.
The main rationale is that the lane is narrow and the only way to filter forward in this particular case would be to ride on the line between RTOL and rightmos thru lane.

Since most accidents occur at intersections it is certainly a good idea to minimize the time one spends close to an intersection.

My point was that unless one is able to avoid an extra light cycle, I am aware of no advantages to filtering foward and this accident just brought to light one other (yes, rare) disadvantage of doing so.

Al

The file needs the Indeo decoder to play... which appears to cost money. Can you post the video in a different format?
You can get it here:
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=&DwnldID=2846&ProductID=355


March'07 edit: Video is now on Youtube.

Al

You can get it here:
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=&DwnldID=2846&ProductID=355

Al

Thanks. The Microsoft link I followed sent me to the Indeo site, which was asking for $15 for their codec.

And if you were first in line at the intersection, what would your likely outcome have been without any filtering?

I didn't watch the video, but there's no rationale here for not lane sharing via filtering.

Have to agree. Actually this kind of thing is a reason to filter. At the front you might get involved when a driver plows into the bacl of the line. At the back you are at the point of initial impact and are mush.

Have to agree. Actually this kind of thing is a reason to filter. At the front you might get involved when a driver plows into the bacl of the line. At the back you are at the point of initial impact and are mush.
Of course accidents from a rear approaching vehicle that doesn't stop for a other stopped cars happen, but they are less frequent than accident in intersections from vehicles running red lights and not giving ROW. I always watch rear approaching vehicles when I am stopped in line and if there is any indication they are not slowing I will move right.

Al

Some frame grabs

Al

I can't view the video either, but this doesn't sound like making a case against filtering. A drunk guy in a truck can plow into a stopped line of ten cars and take you while you were safely tucked between two cars waiting for your turn.

I want to add that filtering should no be done to the top of the line for the following reasons:
- the cyclist places him/herself either on a the ped x-ing or beyond the light line.
- it pisses-off the first motorist in line who is going to make a dangerous move while passing the cyclist.
(imagine three of four cyclists making their way up in front of your car after you hit this red light for the second time :mad: ).

Best recommendation for filering is when behind long line of six or more cars and sufficient space is available without swerving handlebar around side mirrors. Watch that passenger door, indicator and movement of front tire. Stay behind second car or preferably where there is a space an make eye contact with following driver followed by a nod or hand sign.

I can't view the video either, but this doesn't sound like making a case against filtering. A drunk guy in a truck can plow into a stopped line of ten cars and take you while you were safely tucked between two cars waiting for your turn.

I understand this concern, but let me explain:
1. Within intersection accidents (where I live) are far more common than approaching intersection (i.e. truck not stopping behind line of cars) accidents.
2. I am not sandwiched between cars, but instead a bit to the right (see first frame grab image) When stopped I am more aware of what is going on behind me than in front and always am ready to react if things seem abnormal.
3. This is not the situation of very light traffic, but instead lines of cars that I am part of. The driver directly behind me was very aware of me and all vehicles in line further behind were slowing as a line as I obseved in rear view mirror. Its what happens every day at intersection like this.

I am a bit surprised at the negative reaction to my thread title. I presented it as another good reason (i.e. a con for filtering, not a case or argument against it), that its, food for thought. This does not mean there are no cons for waiting in line. The argument or case for or against filtering comes after weighing all the pros and cons. I had never heard of this con being discussed, so based on this experience presented it.

Yes I am emotional, if I had filtered forward and waited in a position just to the left or a bit ahead to the left of the red car in RTOL (the place most cyclists wait after filtering forward) I would most likely be dead. The red car was lifted off the ground. I would have been between the red car and the dark car that hit it.

I have witnessed many dozens intersection accidents or post accidents during my 14yrs of commuting (bike and auto) here, but never once have I witnessed a car plowing into line of stopped cars at arterial interections or the after effects. But of course the later does happens. I have watched cars approach me at too fast a speed behind me while I am stopped in line and I have moved over in case they didn't stop, but in all cases they did.

Al

I've recently come to conclude that you should never filter to the head of the line.

If you can agree that we're all "road users", then the same road-rules apply to anyone using the road. You're no different from cars or trucks simply because you don't have an engine attached! Pedestrians are also road users, and they must follow the rules of the road. You rarely see a motorcyclist filter to the head of the line; Most of them patiently wait their turn, and you should too.

When you break the rules it just p*sses off most other road users, who will take any excuse to get p*ssed off at a cyclist...not because we're cyclists but because cyclists are usually irresponsible road users. If a car is being irresponsible, other drivers will get p*ssed off with him too, after all.

If you're going to use the road, I suggest you use it responsibly like everyone else by knowing the rules and following them. Otherwise get off your bike and walk it home on the sidewalk.

(I'm also noodling with the idea that cyclists should be made to take an exam to prove their knowledge of the rules before they can ride on the roads. My primary school (in Ireland) did a whole course for 8-11-year-olds that taught us how to make lane changes, signal, etc, and it really was a terrific foundation for me. It was promoted by RoSPA (Royal Society for Prevention of Accidents) (http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/index.htm))

Bek, has a good point, you'd be just as vulnerable if you were first at the intersection.

But, if it's true that being in front does make one significantly more likely to be involved as collateral damage in such an accident, then those who always filter to the front are significantly more likely to be so damaged then those who just stop and take their turn. I guess it's worth considering.

As someone who usually stops and waits his turn, I do filter forward when there are so many cars that I'm likely to have to wait through more than one light cycle if I wait my turn. But even then, I usually stop behind one of the cars up front (wherever I can find a gap and the driver seems okay with me cutting in front of him -- smiling and waving helps a lot -- or just off to the side if I can't), and usually do not filter all the way to the front.

I am a bit surprised at the negative reaction to my thread title. I presented it as another good reason (i.e. a con for filtering, not a case or argument against it), that its, food for thought. This does not mean there are no cons for waiting in line. The argument or case for or against filtering comes after weighing all the pros and cons. I had never heard of this con being discussed, so based on this experience presented it.

Point taken. I think, part of the problem is that most of us cannot see the video, only the title, but I think we agree overall, the closest to the intersection, the more vulnerable a cyclist is (and it's not only where you live). Glad you did not filter up that day! :)

Bek, has a good point, you'd be just as vulnerable if you were first at the intersection.

But, if it's true that being in front does make one significantly more likely to be involved as collateral damage in such an accident, then those who always filter to the front are significantly more likely to be so damaged then those who just stop and take their turn. I guess it's worth considering.

Of course Bek's point is true (as is the point about the potential for pedestrian waiting on sidewalk.) But as you point out the idea is to minimize the time ones spends at the front of line. When you are first you have no choice (except the choice to stay further behind the stop line), when you are not first one can choose the level of within intersection collateral exposure and balance that with rear exposure.

The folks who really need to think about this are those who wait in the x-walk or even a bit beyond (often trackstanding) after filtering foward. I see lots of 'roadie' types doing this on weekends.

ps- Everyone involved in the accident was able to talk and said the felt OK or was observed walking around. This of course does not mean that some more serious injuries will not later surface for those involved.

Al

For what it's worth, in Oregon, passing on the right is allowed. Avoiding exhaust fumes is the reason I go to the front, and waiting forward of the lead car assures that they see you and don't right hook you when the light changes (or if right on red is allowed). Although I know the situation is different in the US, my observation in Paris and Barcelona was that virtually all the scooters, motorcycles and bicyclists filter to the front, and the motorists are aware and accepting of this.

For what it's worth, in Oregon, passing on the right is allowed. Avoiding exhaust fumes is the reason I go to the front, and waiting forward of the lead car assures that they see you and don't right hook you when the light changes (or if right on red is allowed). Although I know the situation is different in the US, my observation in Paris and Barcelona was that virtually all the scooters, motorcycles and bicyclists filter to the front, and the motorists are aware and accepting of this.
Exhaust fumes: You will likely get equal exposure from several cars passing you 3' on your left than waiting 6' behind one vehicle in front of you and later riding thru where they accerlated. Idling engines produce much less exhaust that an engine under hard acceleration. Also ever notice on a cold day (or an oil buring car) that the exhaust very often is drifts to the right of a moving car with right side exhaust? since there is no hard data on this I think its fair to call it a wash.
Right Hook: If you wait in line it is impossible to get right hooked.

Is filtering forward in Oregon legal if it requires that one rides on the lane divider line or in a RTOL when one is going straight?

Al

Is filtering forward in Oregon legal if it requires that one rides on the lane divider line or in a RTOL when one is going straight?
No. The law requires that there is sufficient clear space in front of you and that the move can be safely done.

It's a very common sensical law -- it lets you move forward on the right (or exit a bike lane) when it makes sense. It does not enable cyclists to do dumb things.

Exhaust fumes: You will likely get equal exposure from several cars passing you 3' on your left than waiting 6' behind one vehicle in front of you and later riding thru where they accerlated. Idling engines produce much less exhaust that an engine under hard acceleration. Also ever notice on a cold day (or an oil buring car) that the exhaust very often is drifts to the right of a moving car with right side exhaust? since there is no hard data on this I think its fair to call it a wash.
Right Hook: If you wait in line it is impossible to get right hooked.

Is filtering forward in Oregon legal if it requires that one rides on the lane divider line or in a RTOL when one is going straight?

Al

I used to do alot of groundwater/soil contamination delineation. One of the tools we used to determine if soil was contaminated with hydrocarbons was a gas detector. In the winter, we'd have to leave the engine running on our vehicle so we had a warm shelter to retreat to. Normally I would screen soil samples at the back of the vehicle. Not in winter, exhaust fumes would set the detector off like crazy giving me false positives, so I'd move the sample screening to the passenger seat where the air quality was way better. Bottom line, air quality was much worse near the back than it was at the passenger seat, even when the passenger seat was downwind of the tailpipe.

Is filtering forward in Oregon legal if it requires that one rides on the lane divider line or in a RTOL when one is going straight?
It's just passing on the right.

(c) Overtaking and passing upon the right is permitted if the overtaking vehicle is a bicycle that may safely make the passage under the existing conditions.

I personally would be on the left of a RTOL, but the law doesn't require this (you might even argue that the law requires you to be to the right of a RTOL).

How do you feel about advance bike stop lines or 'bike boxes'? Vancouver BC is installing them, and I've seen them in use in Europe. Portland is considering them as well.
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/bikeboxes.htm

It's just passing on the right.

(c) Overtaking and passing upon the right is permitted if the overtaking vehicle is a bicycle that may safely make the passage under the existing conditions.

I personally would be on the left of a RTOL, but the law doesn't require this (you might even argue that the law requires you to be to the right of a RTOL).

How do you feel about advance bike stop lines or 'bike boxes'? Vancouver BC is installing them, and I've seen them in use in Europe. Portland is considering them as well.
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/bikeboxes.htm

whoa, I read that pamphlet and it seems to me the city planner must ride a bike. Too bad on this side of the rockies the city planners still drive suburbans.

How do you feel about advance bike stop lines or 'bike boxes'? Vancouver BC is installing them, and I've seen them in use in Europe. Portland is considering them as well.
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/engsvcs/transport/cycling/bikeboxes.htm
I looked at examples and the pdf on how to use and I don't really see a benefit. What problem is trying to be solved?

One problem I see it creates is if one wants to use BB to turn left (it says to use it for this in the pdf), one approaches on right, then moves left in the BB. But what if on the right approach the light turns green. Then the cyclist is stuck on the right, trying to go left, yikes!

But its one of those things that unless I can use and experiment with first hand I can't give good thoughts on.

Al

I do filter forward when there are so many cars that I'm likely to have to wait through more than one light cycle if I wait my turn.
By that standard, I should always filter. Which I almost always do.

As a motorist I find filtering a bit annoying.
As a cyclist I do not filter. Unless you count bypassing traffic by using a sidewalk on those rare times I am stuck in traffic. My commute is mostly low traffic routes.
Maybe filtering does not apply to me, bringing up the question of why I bothered to post in this thread. bleh

By that standard, I should always filter. Which I almost always do.
I filter foward if there is space and it ensures I will make the light cycle. But I only go as far forward as needed to make the next (or current) green light, which is never to front of line.

Here is an 2.1MB example at the exact same intersection from earlier this week:
Using BL to pass traffic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsK-Pnv7yDo)
And yeah, it looks and is risky at the speed I was going. Even if light hadn't turned green as I was filtering I would have still stopped and waited before front of line.

Al

I personally would be on the left of a RTOL, but the law doesn't require this (you might even argue that the law requires you to be to the right of a RTOL).
It definitely does not require that. The bicycle does not need to be to the right or in an available bike lane "When continuing straight at an intersection when the bicycle lane or path is to the right of a lane from which a motor vehicle must turn right."

Continuing straight from a RTOL can be very dangerous -- especially if the next lane to the left is allowed to turn right. If I'm moving, I stay in the middle of the lane. If I have to stop for a light, I move over and let the cars pull up next to me so they feel good because they think I'm letting them through. In reality, I'll be out in front once the light changes because I start much faster.

As a motorist, I don't mind filtering/splitting lanes unless the lane split causes me to fear damage to my vehicle, startles me, or blocks my way on restart.

As a cyclist, I can't break the motorcycling habit of splitting lanes. At that same intersection my biggest fear would be a driver right turning into me at they try to make a right turn.

As you illustrate, there are a few times where this being at the front of the line is more dangerous than back a bit in the line. I just make sure 1- I never cross the crosswalk sign when waiting for the light, and 2- I'm at the front right corner of the vehicle I stop by so there is less likelihood they will right turn into me.

If you were at the front of the line and had wits about you, you could have moved forward some seeing the crash coming towards you.

The next hazard coming your way is roundabouts instead of lights.

I just make sure 1- I never cross the crosswalk sign when waiting for the light, and 2- I'm at the front right corner of the vehicle I stop by so there is less likelihood they will right turn into me.

If you were at the front of the line and had wits about you, you could have moved forward some seeing the crash coming towards you.

1. good idea
2. The sedan that after being hit slid into those cars in front of me ripped off the bumper of the car in the thru lane and slamed into the red car in the RTOL. I would have been involved in the accident if between those two cars.

This accident happened so fast there is no freaking way one could have reacted to get out the the path of multiple cars sliding around -thats just dreaming. Some of the cars that hit were likely going >45mph. Did you note that if you went forward there were other cars still going thru intersection?

Al

what can I say, you live in an area of idiot drivers. Unfortunately with so many states having gone no fault, and low likelihood of drivers losing driving priviledge, I don't see any easy solution.

Even my practice of keeping a vehicle on my left during intersection crossing would not have helped. Better say your prayers, cross yourself, and go for it ;--))

More good reasons not to move to ariz. You make CA drivers seem sane by comparison.

what can I say, you live in an area of idiot drivers. ...

More good reasons not to move to ariz. You make CA drivers seem sane by comparison.
From: http://www.insurance.com/Article.aspx/Red_Light_Running_is_a_Rampant_Problem/artid/262
Cities and States with highest death rates in red light running crashes per 100,000 people, 1992-98
Sources: Fatality Analysis Reporting System, U.S. Department of Transportation; population data from U.S.

Population Deaths Rates per 100,000
[City, population, # deaths, deaths per 100,000]
Phoenix, AZ 1,125,599 122 10.8
Memphis, TN 614,067 49 8
Mesa, AZ 333,756 26 7.8
St. Petersburg, FL 237,480 18 7.6
Birmingham, AL 256,386 18 7
Dallas, TX 1,047,816 73 7
Albuquerque, NM 412,625 28 6.8
Louisville, KY 260,572 17 6.5
Detroit, MI 998,523 65 6.5

Population Deaths Rates per
100,000
Arizona 4,280,998 305 7.1
Nevada 1,529,841 59 3.9
Michigan 9,655,540 355 3.7
Texas 18,677,046 663 3.5
Alabama 4,255,686 143 3.4
New Mexico 1,670,580 56 3.4
Florida 14,197,723 434 3.1
California 31,645,023 956 3
Delaware 717,499 21 2.9

Those idiots are killing themselves and worse those who are not at fault. This is as you will note older data, because AZ was top on list, red light enforcement cameras have been put at the worst intersections and I understand the rate has gone down.

Al

If you wait in line instead of filtering to the front, I think there is a much better chance of your being rear ended or sandwiched instead of some other car. The filtered forward position is much safer, IMO. The drivers in these types of accidents don't realize that they are coming up on a line of stopped cars and plow into the back of the line because they are distracted in the first place (can you say teenage girls talking or text messaging on cell phones?).

How did you manage to have a camera up and running so fast ... and while biking?

I've recently come to conclude that you should never filter to the head of the line.

If you can agree that we're all "road users", then the same road-rules apply to anyone using the road. You're no different from cars or trucks simply because you don't have an engine attached! Pedestrians are also road users, and they must follow the rules of the road. You rarely see a motorcyclist filter to the head of the line; Most of them patiently wait their turn, and you should too.

When you break the rules it just p*sses off most other road users, who will take any excuse to get p*ssed off at a cyclist...not because we're cyclists but because cyclists are usually irresponsible road users. If a car is being irresponsible, other drivers will get p*ssed off with him too, after all.

If you're going to use the road, I suggest you use it responsibly like everyone else by knowing the rules and following them. Otherwise get off your bike and walk it home on the sidewalk.

(I'm also noodling with the idea that cyclists should be made to take an exam to prove their knowledge of the rules before they can ride on the roads. My primary school (in Ireland) did a whole course for 8-11-year-olds that taught us how to make lane changes, signal, etc, and it really was a terrific foundation for me. It was promoted by RoSPA (Royal Society for Prevention of Accidents) (http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/index.htm))

Why do you assume filtering is breaking the law? Many states allow motorcycles to split lanes (Ca for example) and unless there is a specific prohibition in the statutes against it, its not illegal for bicycles to split lanes.

Car drivers get pissed off at motorcyclists in Ca, opening doors on them etc., and its legal to split lanes there. So your argument that doing something illegal pisses off cagers and makes them aggressive to cyclists holds no water because cagers get pissed off at you even when you follow the rules.

If you wait in line instead of filtering to the front, I think there is a much better chance of your being rear ended or sandwiched instead of some other car. The filtered forward position is much safer, IMO. The drivers in these types of accidents don't realize that they are coming up on a line of stopped cars and plow into the back of the line because they are distracted in the first place (can you say teenage girls talking or text messaging on cell phones?).
Its probably regional, or environment type. (i.e suburb, urban center, rural)
In the suburbia I live in within intersection accidents are by far the most common type and they usually occur with at least one vehicle at high speed 45mph or more causing cars and debris to fly and slide a great distance. Drivers here are used to stopping a lot as well as intersections are so common. Rear ends occur mostly just as the light turns red, but not as often once a line has developed.
Nationally within controlled intersection accidents account for 22%, while rear end account for 18% including rear ends not near intersection (i.e. sudden freeway stops, right turns with no intersection control)
We all have some level of fear of being hit from behind, agreed and it is always possible. We have much less fear of being hit from flying cars and debris from an intersection accident. This was just a reminder that it can happen. Honestly until I witnessed what happened I never really considered the risk.

To be safest we need to consider all possibilities and weigh the relative risks and controls for each situation we are in.

Al

You do however agree that the risk of this happening is probably quite a bit lower than for a lot of other common bike-car collisions?

Being stuck in traffic instead of sharing a wide lane by filtering up towards the front?

I'm with Randya's positioning rationale as being safer.

I disagree with Al, that by not filtering you cannot be right hooked. A Right hook can happen by an impatient motorist even if you were in the main traffic flow, or a driver can right hook from the ajacent lane.

So, if the lane is wide enough to share safely.....why not roll towards the front? Lane sharing is normal between bikes and cars, it stands to reason to use our vehicles to the greatest advantage, and that means sharing lanes if no preferential lanes for bicycles are available.

Filtering to the front is also one of the main benefits of bicycling in a gridlock situation. Sure, it agravates some motorists, same as taking the lane when traffic is flowing freely might; but too bad, if they don't like sitting in that traffic jam, they could park the car and start pedaling.

:)

So, what if you were near the back of the que and someone slams into the back of the line?

You loose either way.

jw

Being stuck in traffic instead of sharing a wide lane by filtering up towards the front?

I'm with Randya's positioning rationale as being safer.

I disagree with Al, that by not filtering you cannot be right hooked. A Right hook can happen by an impatient motorist even if you were in the main traffic flow, or a driver can right hook from the ajacent lane.

So, if the lane is wide enough to share safely.....why not roll towards the front? Lane sharing is normal between bikes and cars, it stands to reason to use our vehicles to the greatest advantage, and that means sharing lanes if no preferential lanes for bicycles are available.
1. There is no wide lane
2a. I am not stuck in traffic. I am close enough to make the green light (actually in this intesection I have been an addtional 5-7 cars back and still make the green light) Only on this day did I not make the green light because drivers did not go on green because of the accident.
2b. I do filter forward in BL at this intersection when the line is very long (see video above)
3. No one knows what is safer. Its just another factor to consider.
4. Sure someone could merge into my lane. That is different than a right hook.

Bek, do you fear I will take away your ability to filter forward? Can't you get it that being in front of line puts one in a position for collateral damage from within intersection accidents, just as being at rear or line or between cars near rear puts one in danger for rear collision. Its a heads up. Perhaps where you ride every intersection is not a multilane 45mph one, which is one of the reasons the death rate at within intersections in Phoenix is highest in nation - not just because more folks run lights, but because the severity of the accidents is worse.

This is by no means the first time I've seen vehicles sliding across intersections into other stopped vehicles, its only the first time captured a bit of it on video - I see severe intersection collisions about 3x per year. My friend rides the bus to work every day. His bus stop is on the corner of an intersection and has been rebuilt 2 times in the last 1.5yrs. because it has been taken out by flying cars from within intersection collisions. He waits for the bus 20ft back from the bus stop.

Its just something to consider, perhaps more so for those that live in suburban areas with high speed arterials.

Al

I do filter forward in BL at this intersection when the line is very long (see video above).
There is actually a bike lane there, and you prefer not to use it and wait in line with the traffic? :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

Why?



Perhaps where you ride every intersection is not a multilane 45mph one....(suburban areas with high speed arterials.)

Exactly!!! I have no idea why anyone would choose to live in such a place. IMO, the type of roads we each ride daily is a very important factor in the differences of opinion on this forum re. bike lanes, etc.

There is actually a bike lane there, and you prefer not to use it and wait in line with the traffic? :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

The BL ends just before the RTOL breaks off to the right. Its in the later video showing me filtering forward, appologies if you can't view it due to connection bandwidth, OS or other technical issues.

If you cant view it the three thumbnails below are frame grabs from that filtering video showing me filtering. first is me using BL to move forward, 2nd shows where it ends, 3rd is me merged into thru lane.

For the record while I advocate for the BL stripe to end before intersection, the way it is done in at this intersection is wrong because it is not just the stripe than ends but the space provided by the BL as well. This is a poor implementation of a BL ending, where the BL dumps into the RTOL. RTOL should begin or break away from the right of the space used by a BL.

Let me ask, would you filter to the right of the black pickup shown in the last frame grab (assuming traffic was stopped)?

Al

Can't they narrow the lanes a little and sqeeze the bike lane in between the RTOL lane and the righthand through lane? Sure there's an interweave movement w/ the RT traffic; but you have to do that anyway, and it could be marked with dashed lines or sharrows-type chevrons, and there could be a sign telling motorists to yield to bikes. Is this even on the radar screen of the local DOT? Is there an active local bicycle advisory committee?

Is this even on the radar screen of the local DOT? Is there an active local bicycle advisory committee?
http://www.mcdot.maricopa.gov/bicycle/bike.htm
(I am very bummed I can't attend any of these meetings as I will be out of town that week)

This is the long term plan for the city this intersection is in (Tempe, AZ)
http://www.tempe.gov/tim/CompPlan/COMPREHENSIVEPLANBOARDS.htm

Al

This is the long term plan for the city this intersection is in (Tempe, AZ)
http://www.tempe.gov/tim/CompPlan/COMPREHENSIVEPLANBOARDS.htm
I don't see a lot of specifics here about engineering designs, etc.; mostly just a general feel-good mission statement and general information for beginning cyclists. It also looks like they'd rather build paths than deal with the engineering and design issues of on-street facilities.

I looked at examples and the pdf on how to use and I don't really see a benefit. What problem is trying to be solved?

One problem I see it creates is if one wants to use BB to turn left (it says to use it for this in the pdf), one approaches on right, then moves left in the BB. But what if on the right approach the light turns green. Then the cyclist is stuck on the right, trying to go left, yikes!

But its one of those things that unless I can use and experiment with first hand I can't give good thoughts on.
The design allows you to filter to the front and get a head start on the cars behind you. I think in Europe they also usually include a separate green signal for bikes, that allows cyclists to proceed sooner than the cars. Probably works best where there are a lot of cyclists, and not just the occassional one.

if there's a LONG line of cars, and i won't make the light cycle, darn right i head to the front. those light cycle waits are what makes my bike commute faster than driving.

if it's only a few cars, or if i'm blocking someone's right turn on a long light wait, i'll wait behind.