Road Cycling - Bike oriented toward older cyclist

Well, I'm entering that period (mid 50's) where my body is starting to protest against the abuse of the typical road bike set-up. I've been looking at several frame alternatives...One I'm intrigued by is the Moots Yamoots road bike with the virtual rear pivot. As I understand it, the ti chainstays provide a limited flex, while the seat stay has a collar that allows vertical movement. The amount of movement is small, but it might allay the teeth rattling effect of the chip-seal roads that are becoming increasingly popular in Texas. Has anyone had experience with this type of frame?
How about handlebar/stem/fork and its effect on vibration damping?
The effect I'm looking for is fairly subtle...don't want to be bouncing up and down on a suspension seatpost. Are the elastomer damping in some saddles really effective?
All input is appreciated.

What are you riding now/

Go for a softride...

I'm 61, a recreational rider, and I like to do longer rides of 50~100 miles. Here in Eastern Washington we have chip seal roads that are worse than the 25 cent 'Magic Fingers Massage' beds in a cheap hotel. The point is, that like you, I am sensitive to crappy roads. What I have found in my search for the perfect bike is several things. First , and probably foremost, more than anything else wheels/tires seem to make the biggest difference in "ride quality", regardless what the frame material is. I have had wheelsets up the gazoo, Rolfs, Ksyriums and others. The best riding wheelset, for me, was a standard Mavic Open Pro rim, 32 hole, laced 3x to my Ultegra hubs. Any good hubs will do, and my wheels, while not the absolute lightest, are tough, strong and very smooth. Tire choice and tire size make a large difference too. I use either 700x25 Continental GP3000 or 700x23 Vittoria Open Corsa. The Vittoria tires are wonderfuly smooth, but they do wear a little quicker than the Contis.

Of the three bikes I ride regularly, and I switch wheelsets amongst them, is my Calfee Tetra. It flat dampens the road vibrations. You can still feel the bumps, holes etc., but the irritating buzz is gone. The next best for vibration damping is the Serotta. Not quite as good as the Calfee, but not far away.

More directly to your question about the Vamoots, that rear end is designed more for bumps, holes, rocks etc., that you would find on a dirt road or trail, than as a 'buzz killer' like on chip seal. I rode one two years ago before I bought the Serotta. Forks, handlebars and stems do little for vibration. Using an underwrap underneath the bartape is very effective. Suspension seatposts too are designed for larger bumps rather than chip seal roads.

So, in my opinion, any good frame/fork that fits you properly and comfortably and that is suitable for the tasks at hand, equipped with good choices in wheels and tires , would meet your needs.

Right now I'm riding a used bike. That's part of the problem: the frame is a little too large for me. It's an '01 Trek 5900, obviously a good bike and a I got a good deal, but I haven't been able to dial in the fit...despite stem changes, etc. So I've decided to go with an LBS I trust to fit me. But I want to be pre-armed with as much knowledge as I can muster. My riding is mainly with local clubs, etc. in the 35-50 mi range. Try to hit the major charity rides and the occasional century. I'm competitive with my age group, but hardly a speedster. I've recently experienced back problems (I often end up riding no-hands a lot of the time near the end of a ride). Lately I have to constantly shift positions in the saddle or stand up.

Based on my experience, and what you have describe, the 'uncomfortableness' is a sign of an ill-fitting bike. A bike that fits you properly will be, obviously more comfortable, but because you are better positioned and hence more relaxed during your rides, you won't be as sensitive the the road surfaces.

I had my 'revalation' when I went to a Serotta Certified fit specialist, and paid money, to be fitted on the Serotta fit cycle. Up until then, like you, I self-fitted with varying degrees of success. The result of the fitting was I <found out that I> was riding a bike that was two sizes too small, and I was too bunched up in the cockpit.

So, I would stongly recommend to you that you find a real fitter, preferably Serotta Certified, that has the fit cycle and pay to have a proper fitting done. Armed with that information, you can make and intelligent, informed decision as to what bike. You will know what size.

When you get fitted, candidly discuss your goals, riding style and what you would realistically like to achieve. That will help the fitter better understand what you want and need. Too many guys try to 'macho' themselves during the fit and can wind up with a bike that is a real pain in the neck. The fitting will be the best two hours you've spent.

I'm 63, and ride similarly to you, except, praise the lord, we do not have the chip seal roads. However, on the Santa Fe Century there were chip seal roads, and I know exactly what you mean!!

I would bet that the back problems you are having are related to the improper fit of an oversize bike, or one that is not properly proportioned or set up for your leg/upper body ratio.

I would second the "get a good fit" route that you are going on, and the "find the best tire and wheelset" approach.

I ride a Lemond Buenos Aires because it nicely fits my rather short legs and opposingly rather long body. However, I did have to sacrifice a little stand-over space to get everything to go all together. But, stand-over space is overly rated in a road bike. After 7,000 miles on this bike, I still have all my parts "intact" and have never had a problem. I also ride a mtn bike with the typical 2", which I bought right off the floor with no more "fit" than the 2" stand-over (my first bike in MANY years). Amazingly, I rode this bike on the Ride the Rockies and a century, and have about 7,500 miles and have never had a "fit" problem with it. Good luck, I guess, or maybe the structure of the mtn bike just does not require such a close fit.

A good LBS is your best bet. Have fun.

Also, you can also consider a recumbent tandem and let someone else do the work for you while you sit upright??

Here is a pic of me and my Lemond on the Santa Fe Century

Originally posted by Davet
What I have found in my search for the perfect bike is several things. First , and probably foremost, more than anything else wheels/tires seem to make the biggest difference in "ride quality", regardless what the frame material is. I have had wheelsets up the gazoo, Rolfs, Ksyriums and others. The best riding wheelset, for me, was a standard Mavic Open Pro rim, 32 hole, laced 3x to my Ultegra hubs. Some buy the wheel and tire theory,some don't.I don't. Your wheels are my wheels and I run 23 and 25 tire sizes. They do nothing for a really bad ride,other than to make the slightest difference, and I am often not sure of that.I notice you did not mention having an Al bike?

I have an Al bike, and I've had an Al bike, and I'll tell you flat out that wheels and tires make the single biggest difference in the ride quality to me. I'm not factoring in a crappy riding bike. Ti, Al and CF frames can ride nicely or poorly, depending on the design and execution of the frame.

I notice you did not mention having an Al bike?

"There is as much
misinformation regarding the ride qualities of
the various frame materials as there is real
data.The fact is that in a given frame type,the
frame ’s geometry will effect the “feel ” more
than the material it is made of.It gets slightly
more complicated when you factor in that all
frame materials can exhibit different ride
qualities.Finally,the way a given frame is
manufactured will also vary the ride “feel ”.
Generally speaking,the lighter the frame is the
more supple,or forgiving,it will feel as you
ride it."

Some of the experts on Rec.Bicycles.Tech would state that material is the least of the factors affecting ride

Google search:
as_q=aluminum+steel+titanium&num=100&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=bicycle+comparison&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images[/url][/url]

I now (belatedly) understand the importance of good fit, and that will be my 1st priority. I'm hearing a lot of disagreement on the relevance of frame material in filtering road buzz. Reading the Seven Cycles web site, I got the impression that their frames can be "tuned" to achieve a particular ride quality. Does this make sense? I'm interested in older cyclists' experience with saddles. I've had the best succes with the Flite Trans Am (with the cut-out) in relieving pressure, but I still have a problem peddling in the drops. Also, if I ran my axial pros at 85-90 PSI, would I run an increased risk of flatting?

Originally posted by Poppaspoke
I've recently experienced back problems (I often end up riding no-hands a lot of the time near the end of a ride). Lately I have to constantly shift positions in the saddle or stand up.
This helps. Is the back discomfort the only issue? What, specifically makes you feel the frame's too big (usually results in discomfort in the upper back and neck)? We need specifics! What is your stem height, relative to your saddle height? Sounds like you could stand to raise it. When you ride in the drops, do the h-bars obscure the front axle (it's not right for everyone, but it's a starting point, and more data for your BikeForums Custom Internet Bike Fit Team (tm)). Actually, you need to hook up w/ a local davet or dnvrfox, and have him eyeball your fit.

Failing that, I'm with davet. Pop for a Serotta Fit Cycle session (~$100?) from a shop that has a fair amount of experience with it. It's the best fit system going. (If you buy a Serotta, they will probably apply it toward the purchase.) Or, some shops will do the same thing with their stock, trying different size frames and switching parts and such as necessary. This way, it's clear from the outset to all involved that your objective is not buying a new bike. In any case, you should expect to have to set up an appointment and spend something for the service. Basically, you're asking for an employees undivided attention for an hour. Call ahead... if the idea seems foreign to them, it probably is. Keep looking. Fellow bike club members can be a pretty good source of information for shops & shop personnel that are particularly good at such things.

? I'm interested in older cyclists' experience with saddles

I ride the one that came with the bike - a San Marco "M", as I do with the road bike - a standard cheapie Specialized saddle.

Saddles have never been an issue with me - I guess I have been lucky. No irritation, no chafing, no soreness (beyond the break-in period you are going to get with any saddle). Of course, I am one of those very strange folks who rides with underwear between my skin and my chamois. Heresy, I know, but it happens to work with me. I am not just quite sure why your concern with saddles??

I now (belatedly) understand the importance of good fit, and that will be my 1st priority. I'm hearing a lot of disagreement on the relevance of frame material in filtering road buzz. Reading the Seven Cycles web site, I got the impression that their frames can be "tuned" to achieve a particular ride quality. Does this make sense? I'm interested in older cyclists' experience with saddles. I've had the best succes with the Flite Trans Am (with the cut-out) in relieving pressure, but I still have a problem peddling in the drops. Also, if I ran my axial pros at 85-90 PSI, would I run an increased risk of flatting?

Any good framemaker can "tune" the ride to suit the customers needs. Serotta, which I am familiar with, can build the same frame, one for you and one for the boy-racer down the road. Each frame will have it's own unique ride qualities, because the frame maker asked each customer about their riding style, riding habits and what they wanted from their bicycle.

In my opinion, the relevance of different frame materials and how they filter road buzz is this: while each frame material, Titanium, Aluminum and Carbon Fiber will filter 'road buzz' differently, a much more important element ,like I stated earlier, is the wheels and tires. I am fortunate that I own a bike made out of each of the materials. So I can ride each bike with a particular set of wheels and tires back to back. The biggest difference that I notice on any bike is what wheel/tire combo I have on at that particular time. For instance, if I'm going to do a century ride, regardless of the bike I choose, I will use my 'standard' wheelset with the Vittoria tires. This is the smoothest combo I've got. Everyone has an opinion on which is the best riding frame material and I have stated mine, based on my personal experience with bikes that I own.

Saddles are a very personal choice; what works well for one is the others nightmare. If you are having trouble pedaling in the drops, it sounds like the up/down tilt of your saddle might be off, your handlebars are too low or your saddle might be too high. Until you get a properly fitting bike, it is going to be difficult to cure the other fit problems.

I wouldn't run a Michelin Axial Pro under 100psi unless you were fairly light, say 150# or less. Otherwise you do risk pinch flats.

It sounds like you are investigating custom made bikes. In your search for the perfect bike, find the perfect bike shop. One that you find their judgement is sound, that will act in your best interest and that will take care of you. I think that would be my first consideration, even before I looked at bikes. To do that you may have to travel a bit, maybe out of your area. But if you going to spend the kind of money that Seven, or Serotta, or Calfee or any other custom frame builder is worth, you need someone to give you the fundamentals of a good bike experience.

beutifull bike:) wats the story with the seat stays , are they made of a different material to the rest of the frame , that curve must dampen a lot of vibs. out ?

Woah! Rotate the bars a bit more and it will look like what the street people ride.

Hi,
faced with esentially the same problem, I decide to get a Ti touring bike. The couple of Ti bikes I have ridden had a nice ride feel.

I'll be 58 in a few weeks :eek: and here is what I ride.
http://home.mindspring.com/~rhorne/Litespeed1.jpg
The carbon fork and curved seat stays help quite a bit with dampening the bumps. The saddle is a Terry Ti Fly.
My other bike has an Al frame and straight seat stays. May be my imagination but the ride on it is a little more harsh.

I have several friends, some older than me, some younger, who have switched to recumbents for comfort reasons. Those things look scarey to me. I'd fall over the first time I had to stop. :D

Be nice Pokey. It's my bike and I like it that way!

Originally posted by greywolf
wats the story with the seat stays , are they made of a different material to the rest of the frame , that curve must dampen a lot of vibs. out ?
Since Davet didn't respond, I'll give it a shot, based on what a Serotta sales rep told me one time. I don't know what it is, but it's supposed to allow you to dial the flex and stiffness you want by changing the attachments. She said its real strength was for handling, especially like fast, curvy descents.

Since no one really answered what the story
is with the seat stays on Davets image I'll pipe in.
The bike is a Serotta Hor's Catagorie (sic?). The rear
seat stays are an elastomer that allows for some
degree of shock absorbtion. I believe Serotta called
it DKS (for Dave Kirk Suspension the designer).
I don't see the Hor's listed in the current line up
of Serotta models.
My understanding is that the DKS as stated above
does more to smooth ride in cornering etc. That said
much of the buzz on Serotta Forum is that it is helpful
with back problems etc. Serotta has designed frames
for folks with severe back problems (see the
Serotta Gallery at Serotta.com).
If you're interested, once you know the frame size
you need, check out Serotta specials, they have a
few Hor's available at reduced price (but be aware
they are EXPENSIVE, figure about $3k for the frame &
fork).
Hope this helps,
Marty

Well you guys are partially correct. My bike is a Hors Categorie, and the rear-end (DKS) was designed by David Kirk. What the DKS rear triangle does is allow up to 10mm movement of the chain-stay. There is a controlled pivot where the seat stay and chain-stay are joined. There is an elastomer attached to each seat stay to control the velocity of the movement. It doesn't act like a suspension in practice. What it does do is keep the rear wheel planted on the ground. So instead of a bump kicking the rear wheel up, the DKS absorbs the upward movement, keeping the rear wheel in contact with the ground.

When I first got the bike last year, I was absolutely amazed at the downhill handling. It was like the bike was on rails, nothing seemed to upset the stability. One magazine described the handling as "Hooverlike", and I agree.

Serotta doesn't offer the Hors Categorie as a separate model this year. The DKS rear is now offered as an option on the Legend Ti.