Touring - The Newbie's Guide To Touring Bikes

Sure you can search for it all over the place, but here it is in one spot. Calling everyone who has cyclo toured before... If you started touring all over again, what would you tell yourself? what would your bike setup look like? what kind of racks and paniers would be best? What camping gear would your recomend?

Help our new-bees out!!!!

Mike

Jamie has done a great job with his site:

http://bicycletouring101.com/

One question that I know comes up every so often is...
"What bike would be good for touring if I have a tight budget?"
Of course "tight budget" could mean alot of different things to alot of different people. I did a search for the word "budget" and this is some of what i came up with...

If your budget is really tight (below $700), you might be best off upgrading a bike you already own. It may not be a true dedicated touring bike, but touring can and has been done on all sorts of bikes. Also, older and/or slightly used touring bikes can be found on ebay, craigslist, or even at local garage sales in your area.

If you have a little more cash on hand ($750-$950), the next step up would be one of the budget touring bikes from REI (Novara Randonee), Fuji (Fuji Touring), or Bianchi (Bianchi Volpe). REI often times has coupons (check the coupon forum on this site) for 10-20% off.

Next up from that (on up to about $1400) would be the Trek 520 (ready to tour with after swapping to lower geared crankset and a stronger rack), Cannondale T600 (??) or T800 (Aluminum bikes), or the Surly LHT (sold as a frame and then you build it up how you want it).

After that, things start getting expensive for the "budget shopper". There is the Bruce Gordon BLT, the Rivendell Atlantis, the Koga Miyata World Traveler, and I think Waterford's models are in the high end as well. Regardless of which bike you get, "most" tourers have steel frames with attachments for three water bottle cages, front and rear racks (mid-fork braze-ons), at least 36 spokes per wheel, drop style handlebars or flats with some sort of extension for more hand positions, and mtb gearing for hauling heavy loads up steep mountains.

Saddle...

The brooks B17 saddle is the number one most recomended saddle for touring. it is old school, and they simply don't make anything like them anywhere else. Most people buy them from www.wallbike.com because of the generous return policy. For most they are not that comfortable when you first get them, but once they have a chance to take the shape of your butt, they are unbeatable when it comes to being in the saddle all day long. there are several different types of brooks saddles. To find out more info, search for brooks on this forum. there are probably over 100 threads that talk about the saddle, the different models, and what to recomend for different bike setups.

Mike

I thought you would never ask. I,m almost aways disapointed with the bike fit threds. Information gushes across the screan, usualy with no point of referance. the way any bike fits is dependant on what is to fit it. Now in my 60th.year i,v only been riding for about 15 yrs. this includes a cost to cost and Golf to The Canadian border. Most of the riding has been 1 or 2 weeks at a time, so I,v had several opertunities to correct bike fit. I have size 13 feet, my arms spred to 6 in. more than my hight, and a short torso. these are the important things that make bike fit a nightmare. perticularly if you follow the ritings of one guru , who never tells you his personal dementions, There seems to be an abundants of cries for long and high stems while this may be wondreful advice for people with long torsoes and short arms, but not for me.
the conventional thinking is that a person with a short torso does best with a short top tube, however with #13 shoes and 175 crank arms a longer top tub than is found on most of the bikes from the golden age. it seems that most of the 23 in. bikes from that period have 56 57 top tubes this gets me about .75 in of toe overlap. My long arms are stored between my sholders and the handle bar,s this is done by puting the bars about 60 mm below the seat/at level. one thing I notis with the barhight is that on a short ride on the bike trail, when going down and underpas the pressure increses on the top of the hood while on the slight clime up the other side I feel my middle finger pulling on the bottum of the hood, I think this sistum workes for me with my long arms. Posaly having your self fit for a sut of cloths may give you a foundation for what you deed in a bike, IF you ask hoe the masurments compar to most people, when I find a long sleve shurt that fits my armes it is in the big and tall shop and has a tale down to may knees Ge I feel better now but I stil cant spell Have a good ride

If I had to do it all over again I would buy the bike I've got. It is assembled by Urbane Cyclist in Toronto and it is their touring bike. (http://ucycle.com/bikes/item.php?name=urbtour&cat=urbanite)

Urbane is a worker owned co-operative so they also fit my politics and lifestyle. Employees really listen to your needs and they stand behind their products.

Not everyone can build up a custom bike from scratch. I have neither the skills nor the time so for just a little more I got to allow someone who really knows what they are doing to do everything from measure me for a frame to assemble a bike with my choice of brakes, gearing, racks et al.

With correcting all the mistakes from my first tour bike (Giant OCR Tour) which had road specific gearing and tires, along with a compact frame, I could have bought a fully equiped custom bike and still had change left over. Ive learned a great deal since then and my new bike is a Surly LHT that fits great and is very comfortable.
The components work well together (carefull research helps) and the Brooks B17 cant be beat. I put this machine together myself and feel confident I can repair most, if not all , problems that may arise. Total price with carefull shopping was less than a bare bones Trek 520.
Much of what Ive learned was here at these forums.

We get many questions on this forum from folks with around $600 to spend on a loaded touring bike, wanting to know if it is possible. Well of course you can tour on just about anything with enough patience, but assuming you want a bike suited for the purpose, and a fairly trouble-free experience, here are some suggestions. Two common configuration of touring bike are the road-bike style, with drop bars and 700mm wheels, and the expedition-style, with 26" wheels and a more typical flat handlebar like a mountain bike. The roadbike style will be slightly faster on pavement, and the expedition-style is possibly a bit more rugged due to the 26" wheels and mtn bike frame. Both can be purchased or built on a budget, keeping in mind the following:

First of all, a loaded touring bike generally will have a stronger, heavier frame and wheelset, frequently with 36-spoke wheels, to carry the weight. The gearing will almost always be a triple in front, often with a mountain bike (mtb) crankset and small chainrings, combined with large cogs in the rear, for low overall gearing capable of climbing over hills with a load. Tires will generally run larger than typical roadbikes, for load capacity and a smoother ride. Shifters may be the simpler and more reliable bar-end style.

Frame material will usually be chromoly steel for strength and a smooth ride, although there are exceptions to this, such as the excellent aluminum Cannondale touring series. The frame geometry itself will have more relaxed angles and a longer wheelbase for stability and room to carry panniers. The seating position often puts the bars at seat height or greater, and the frame will have an assortment of braze-ons for mounting of racks, water bottles, and other accessories.

Ok, with a basic understanding of what we are looking for, what can we get for around $600? Assuming that you want something manufactured within the last decade or so, two popular options representing each type of bike configuration are as follows:

1) Used bikes designed for loaded touring frequently come up on Ebay or bulletin boards like Craigslist, which I prefer. Bikes such as the venerable Trek 520, the Novara Randonee, Fuji Touring and the Cannondale T-series are all candidates - with strong wheels, frames and appropriate gearing in most cases. A 5-10 year old model can usually be found in good shape for around $500, which allows a little extra for servicing, wheel truing if necessary, and possible fit modifications (stem, etc). It may have a rack and/or accessories. Make sure the wheels appear true and in good condition, with even spoke tension, or allow for rebuilding.

I bought my 1995 Trek 520 off CL a few years ago for $600 with low miles and it has been trouble-free. Note that the earlier 520's came with mtn bike front gearing, unlike the more recent models which have a road crank (which can be swapped). In any case, this style of traditional touring bike will also serve well as a commuter and general purpose road bike, being the faster choice of the two styles on pavement.

2. The second option is the expedition style bike, for those who prefer a flat handlebar and/or plan to do some dirt roads along the way. The budget approach here is to convert a steel mountain bike from the early 90's to a touring rig. I did this recently with a 1993 Trek 970 - a high end chromoly mtn bike with a rigid fork, lugged frame, and XT components. Expect to pay $2-300 for a similar Trek, Stumpjumper or Marin mtn bke of similar vintage. I would suggest buying a higher end steel frame model which will have better wheels and components than an entry level bike, and the price difference will be minimal. It will also be lighter. Look for a rigid fork for pedaling efficiency, lower maintenance, and a smooth ride with a load.

In my case, I cleaned up my bike, serviced the bearings, and mounted Continental Town and Country 26 x 1.9 tires - beefy tires that roll well on pavement but can handle rough terrain as well. I added Jandd racks - the Extreme front holds panniers high or low, and the Expedition rear is extra long for better heel - pannier clearance. The riding position was too stretched out, so I put on a shorter stem and bars that had some rise, along with a Terry men's saddle, although it may get a Brooks at some point. This entire touring setup, with racks and all modifications, was under $500, leaving money for panniers.

Make sure you get your riding position dialed-in properly - or you will be miserable. Also, note that mountain bikes often come with 175mm crank arms for greater power off road, where a similar size roadbike might have 170, or 172.5. The longer arms will result in slightly greater knee flex which may cause discomfort when pedaling all day long, especially if you are not a tall person. I prefer shorter crank arms myself, due to knee issues from running. They can be changed, but allow $100 more on the project cost if you think it will be necessary.

In summary (finally!) either one of these bike setups should carry you on week-long tours or across country without problems, and without a large investment, saving money for actual touring expenses while on the road. You can always buy a fancier rig once you find out how much you enjoy touring!

I like what mtnroadshas to say, especially about his Trek 970. I have a Trek 830 from 1988 that is not up to the quality of a 970 with regards to wheels/hubs and some other componentry. But, it has a bullet proof frame. It's set up for my personal physical situation so it's a little different than what most people consider normal for long rides. Still, it works for me and will pack like a mule and climb like Jeep. It was to be my tourer until bought a Trek 520 off CL. Fully loaded/racked and with Nitto upgrades and a Brooks B-17, it cost me $550. It's a '98. New ones go for $1,100 around here.

Bottom line, it can be done. There are lots of good bikes out there for sale.

I praise the Bianchi Volpe for that price range. I had one after a car hit and wrecked the Miyata 1000 tourer I was using. After another cyclist wrecked the Volpe I upgraded to a Cannondale touring frame using parts stripped from the Miyata and the Volpe. Finally I lucked into some $$$ and upgraded to a Bruce Gordon BLT. The BLT is his budget bike. I still have the Cannondale. Two years after I got the BLT I am discovering touring specific things Bruce built into it.

In a pinch any bike will do. I heard of a racer down to his last Masi. Threw everything in a knapsack and heard across the country.

Chilled Water on Your Tour

No need to spend $15 for an insulated water bottle that holds half the water.
An old sock works much better and is cheaper.
And if you have two water bottles, you can use the pair.
Just put the water bottle in the sock, keep the sock wet, and your water stays cool.
Out West, where the air is really dry, your water will be cold.
It's called evaporative cooling - and it works.

After you've got your bike, the next question is how to carry everything.

Some people swear by trailers, some people swear by panniers, most people say if you're completely undecided, only you can tell by trying both.

This is about panniers.

It's generally accepted that a bike is much more stable if you split the load between front and back. Sure, you can carry 60lbs on a rear rack only, but many people end up asking "Why is my bike squirrely when it used to ride so solid?" Rear-rack only is fine for shopping, for commuting runs and for light touring, but for loaded touring you should plan on using both front and rear racks/panniers.

Some people even say to go with 60/40 split, front/rear. That's 60% of the weight on the front. The effect is as if you're riding on rails, you have a very stable and sure-footed load. It will probably take an afternoon to get used to the feel, but after that there's no turning back.

Many panniers manufacturers to choose from. Ortliebs (http://www.ortlieb.com/), Arkel (http://www.arkel-od.com/), Jandd (http://www.jandd.com) (and others) are recognized for top-of-the-line bags. They're well-designed, rugged, last for multiple round-the-world tours. No small factor is that when something does go wrong with them (say, a mounting hook comes loose), they are quick to respond. If you're headed to Patagonia or across the Silk Road, consider these expensive panniers only. Others will certainly recommend their favorites.

But for touring in areas that aren't so remote (say, across the US), you can get by just fine on panniers that'll save you a bunch of cash. Nashbar (http://www.nashbar.com), Performance (http://www.performancebike.com/), REI (http://www.rei.com) (MEC in Canada) -- all sell good panniers starting in the $50 range (one pair) that can last over many summers and thousands of miles. My wife and I are proof: a set of REIs and a set of Nashbars that have 40,000 miles on 'em and still have several years left of service. Plus, for shopping trips around home, the less expensive ones are ideal since they don't put such a big investment at risk.

Only you can decide how important price is in choosing equipment. One person may argue to "Go for the best at the start". Another person may advocate for Nashbar panniers, based on price and knowing that they'll probably last long enough for their use. If cost is a consideration, you can still get good quality for your budget. If your wallet allows, go for expedition quality.

-- Mark

Don't stop dialing it in, don't stop parsing your list to carry less and less.

Always be willing to stop and 'check things out'.

Always be willing to try a conversation on someone if you feel like talking, otherwise don't feel obligated to say much. (I feel like I operate at about 40 IQ sometimes on tour and the words don't always pour out.)

Features I desire after having owned 4 different touring bikes and 48 years of cycling. Connections for front and rear racks and fenders. Bruce Gordon rear racks have an offset to make changing the rear wheel easier and a 'brazeon' on the rack to keep fender stays away from the dropouts. Beefy tubing. Room for 38 to 43mm tires and matching fenders. I may not use them all of the time but I want to be able to. A triple with a 22x32 low or better. Drop bars. Mechanical brakes. Cantilevers for big tires and muddy conditions. Disc brakes if I will be facing a lot of big descents with a full load. I do not have discs now. Good tech support from the builder. (Bias for Bruce Gorden, I live a 22 mile ride from his shop). Rust-proof fittings. Parts that are generally available as exotic hardware might be difficult to replace while on tour. A wife that wants to pick you up at work if it is raining hard. Have had that one for 35 years come St. Patricks Eve. :D . She also pushes me to replace worn gear when it get ratty looking :) . And likes to run sag stops on double centuries and longer brevets. :p .

Don't give up at the first problem you run into...(flat tube and no more patches, blown tire #@&%$#% miles between two cities and no spare, broke spoke and wheel wobbling like a drunk dog going downhill, finding that tent leak in the middle of a thunder storm etc etc....and you WILL run into some problem, think of these things as Lagnaippe a little something extra to flavor the experience.

Helpful hints that i just learned:

ORGANIZE YOUR PANNIERS!!!! On my first trip it was a total disaster going through the days ride having no idea what I put in what pannier. Everytime I needed anything (tylenol, gum, wallet, camera, rain gear, power bar, phone, lip balm, ect.) I had to look through all the bags to find them!!! It was SOOOO frustrating!

At first I packed my sleeping pad and tent inside of my panniers... causing a lack of room for other things.. as a result I had things crammed in the bags making it extremely difficult to find / get to anything without making a huge mess. after that first night I put the bag and pad on my back rack instead, making the panniers much less crouded. The bike did not handle any differently (I thought it would handle differently and that is why I put everything in the bags to start off with)

Even if in a warm client, in my opinion, you must pack rain gear. I used a bike specific poncho and a shower cap over my helmet. The cap made a HUGE difference!!! Even though it was not cold, these items were absolutely needed. I drove 97 miles that day... about 80 of them in the rain. It would have been absolutely miserable without these items... it is not so much the rain falling, it is the wind normally associated with rain, and the horrible road spray you will constantly be nailed with by passing cars and trucks.

I used a bike specific (incredibly loud) airhorn mounted to my handle bars... I installed this as a joke, or a toy... It ended up being EXTREMLY useful during the trip. There were several times I used it (especially in the bad weather) to make drivers aware of my presence.. there were also 3 different times that while driving through farm lands large dogs (unleashed) started chasing me. In all three instances a loud long toot of the horn stoped them dead in their tracks (Apparently it scared them... and I am not suggesting this would work for all dogs)

BUY YOUR WATER. At first I was just getting the resturants to fill them when I stopped. THIS WAS A MISTAKE. 3/4 of the way through the first day I started to experience serious discomfort from the chlorine in the local waters. This cleared up immediately once I consumed my first purchased gallon of water, and did not come back because I continued to drink only the bottled water.

I had 4 full size water bottles with me on the tour. I should have brought 5. I kept buying my water by the gallon at the various stores... it takes a few gulps and about 5 bottles to hold a gallon of water. because I only had 4 bottles, I ended up wasting water from every gallon I purchased.

I spent a good bit of time wondering if I should bring my good head light. It is pretty big, and has a heavy battery. I was very glad that I brought it along because it was very useful when riding around town at night, and it also made the day of rain MUCH safer.

If bringing a stove, you have to practice making things on it before you go. I did not and that was a mistake. I made some camping store noodles, rice, and grits. They were all horrible to eat because I had no way to mesure water, and there were no flavorful ingredients anyway. The store bought camping food was crap at best. I never even considered the idea of bringing pancake mix until it was too late... it would have been a fantastic breakfast every morning, but I did not have a frying pan. all i had was a little tiny pot to boil water in. I would have saved a lot of money if I had properly prepared here by doing a few practice meals.

Do NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE EFFECTS OF THE WIND ON A FULLY LOADED BIKE ON A LONG RIDE. This is self-explanitory.

WHEN SETTING UP CAMP, AVOID SETTING UP NEAR ANYTHING THAT LOOKS OUT OF THE ORDINARY. There are some sick people out there, and if I had followed this simple rule (that is not always that obvious) I would have avoided a realy scary situation.

That is all I can think of for now.... I will chime back in as soon as I remember anything else.

Mike

A good water filter can save you the hassle and $ of buying lots of water.

Helpful hints that i just learned:

WHEN SETTING UP CAMP, AVOID SETTING UP NEAR ANYTHING THAT LOOKS OUT OF THE ORDINARY. There are some sick people out there, and if I had followed this simple rule (that is not always that obvious) I would have avoided a realy scary situation.

That is all I can think of for now.... I will chime back in as soon as I remember anything else.

Mike

Mike

I am doing my first tour this summer. My wife is freaked out about me camping near weirdoes. If you wouldn't mind, please go into more detail on your experience. Thanks.

Steve

Mike

I am doing my first tour this summer. My wife is freaked out about me camping near weirdoes. If you wouldn't mind, please go into more detail on your experience. Thanks.

Steve

Steve, look through this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=183528 for the account in his own words. He set up camp near something that looked like a large, weird tarp - which turned out to be a shelter for a large, menacing, mentally disturbed individual.

About wierdos. When it is getting dark out on the open road and I have to just camp where I am I get way off the road. Like 200 to 300 yards with trees, brush, and a bulge in the ground shielding me from drivers. And I keep the lights low. The tarp tent is dull grey green. And when I do head into the bruch I wait until no traffic is visible in any direction. In KOA and other campgrounds I get as far away from the driveways as possible to keep headlights from waking me or lost cars from driving over me. Camping next to a large log provides shelter from wind and cars. In one town I asked the police about safe camping and they let me set up on their lawn.

In one town I asked the police about safe camping and they let me set up on their lawn.
Remember that cops can be your best friend. You may fear the LAPD, but local cops can be really cool. I've had so many great homecooked dinners with police when I've asked where to camp. Plus no one messes with you when you're camped in the police chief's yard.

If you know what type and size of bike you are looking for, Touring or Hybrid depending on your personal comfort, with the appropriate racks. Then you put the word out at the various local bike clubs. Stuff happens, and it is usually good. I received my brand new BOB-original packaging etc. from a friend of a friend including shipping,$160, everyone happy. Tonight on a ride with a couple of bike club members, one had a brand new Rodriguez touring bike. She GAVE me her older (but still great) Trek 531, fully equiped and in great shape I know at least two people who could use it. Now I've been across the US and have ridden Alaska on my Marin Sausolito. I have ridden with Panniers and a BOB. It is all good. People like to help out others.

Camping gear. Buy a light (under 5lbs) two man tent, good quality, with rain fly. You will find a footprint for it, in the form of a light weight tarp maye on the road. You will appreciate the room. My headlight is also my camplight. i bought a whisperlight stove at a garage sale. Tour specific clothes aren't that big a deal, except for raingear and warm layers. Bring some light nylon rope. It is useful, particularly in bear country or where "critters" might get into your stuff.Thermarest self inflating pad is great. I get by with a knife (sharp) fork and a spoon. Maybe a stirring spoon too! I really like the Shimano bike sandals for riding. I have a pair of Sealskin socks that I can put on in cold or inclement weather. The sandals are very comfortable and you can wear them into the shower (or town) and not worry about picking up any nasty's. Then if you feel the need for another pair of shoes, you have more choices- cheap tennies or whatever. Pack a Kevlar spoke in your repair kit. Cheap insurance. If I did one thing consistantly, it was to buy breakfast. It is the cheapest meal of the day, filling, and you meet the nicest people. You then have at least one hot, usually delicious meal under your belt no matter what else happens.

Remember that cops can be your best friend. You may fear the LAPD, but local cops can be really cool. I've had so many great homecooked dinners with police when I've asked where to camp. Plus no one messes with you when you're camped in the police chief's yard.

Probably not to be counted on if you are young, pierced, tattooed, non-white, or in any other way "different".

Probably not to be counted on if you are young, pierced, tattooed, non-white, or in any other way "different".
Definitely an important consideration. I myself happen to be of partial asian descent, and also sport a full beard. In the patriot-act age, to many people that equates to Taliban-on-a-bicycle, and I have had some unpleasant experiences with law enforcement ( and locals ) in predominantly caucasian counties. Even here in the northwest. Nothing scary though...

If your budget is really tight (below $700), you might be best off upgrading a bike you already own. It may not be a true dedicated touring bike, but touring can and has been done on all sorts of bikes. Also, older and/or slightly used touring bikes can be found on ebay, craigslist, or even at local garage sales in your area.


Like a Miyata 210/610. Outstanding touring platforms, and better frames than you can buy today. If you insist on index shifting you can add it for (well) under $100.
Top

A real newbie might discover they don't like touring. (It could happen!) Spending a ton of money would end up being a waste. For someone like that, or for kids who will outgrow their current bike, I'd recommend a non-suspension mountain bike. It should be from a reputable manufacturer, DEFINITELY NOT A DEPARTMENT STORE BIKE. Mountain bikes usually have more robust components - frame, spokes, hubs, etc. They have low gearing - necessary for a tourist to carry a load up hills. Used ones are cheap - check ebay - because they have been so much more popular than road bikes that there are thousands of them out there. In fact, I'll bet a newbie could find an aunt or uncle who has a nice old mountain bike sitting in the garage that they would let you have for a song.

My opinion is that suspension adds unnecessary weight for tourists who are going to be riding on roads so they are undesireable. However, they are very desireable for mountain bikers, so non-suspension bikes typically sell for cheaper on Ebay, Craigslist, garage sales, etc.

I would buy some higher-pressure, road-style tires. I'd add bar ends (if the bike didn't already have them) for some added hand positions.

After that there would be lots of options to think about, but the basics would be there.

As long as it has Rohloff gears, a B.O.B. Ibex trailer, lock out forks and is made by Thorn in the Uk

www.sjscycles.co.uk

They made mine and it performed perfect during my 6 month tour Patagonia.

george

Here's a link to a good site for inexpensive bike touring and other good touring tips.

http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/BikeTheBikes.html

i've been away from serious cycling for 30 plus years,and have deceided to try touring again.i would like to do a build-up and am looking at a used specialized expedition frame [4130 specialized cr-mo] i'm really not familiar with specialized bikes,could i have some advice?thx

One thing is that I'm told that 26" wheels were developed to be similar radius to 700c with the different size tire installed. so the attempt was not really to create a difference in the first place.

26" have more tire options toward the fat end, so if you are a 1.25 tire or larger person, this is your rim, 700C is the reverse, perfect for the person who wants loaded touring at 37mm through to say 28MM for light touring.

Beyond tires, the smaller wheel is stronger. You can go to 36 spokes and have the effect of a 700c at say 40 spokes while using relatively standard components. In addition for the same hub the rigging angle is more favourable, again stronger smaller wheels. The smaller wheel is lighter, and the distance from center is lower, which means it's esier to spool up and keep spooled up, a big factor in quickness and energy overall. The larger wheel is better rolling relative to roughness in the road, which is present even in a fairly smooth road; and rolls better relative to hub friction, might be a factor with a generator a pro on the downhills, an con for spooling up. Large wheels roll over bumps more easily and are easier on your body because the ride is smoother.

Gearing wise the smaller wheel has a natural abilty to deliver lower gears, while maintaining a tighter gear spacing, and less problems from chain suck and so forth. On the other hand you would have to choose the lower gearing, it's worse for you if you want a high gearing.

The smaller wheels take up less space on the frame leaving room for fenders, racks and for the whole machine to be lower in the wind. Of course this assumes that the frame was built to take advantage of these features... Smaller wheels provide more fit options since a large rider can easily ride 26" wheels, while 700c can be worse for small riders.

Parts for smaller wheels are easier to carry, so your extra tire and tubes weighs less. And parts are generally easier to find in most place in the world. Often seems as though for the same rim the smaller wheel is easier to change tires while fixing flats, though that sounds wrong so maybe the rims aren't really the same.

Larger wheels brake more effectively with rim brakes, but less effectively with disc.

Smaller wheels have less trouble with toe overlap on the front wheel or fender. The perfect storm in this regard is when an oversize touring shoe, like The popular sandals that tend to have extra material at the toe, overlap with the fenders or even fender wires, and crash you. This can hit at a bad time like slow maneuvering in traffic.

Hey, I have a dumb-ish question about sizing.
Okay, on REI, it says that an X-Small bike is fit for people 5'0"-5'3", and a Small is 5'3"-5'6".
I'm exactly 5'3". Which size?!

Hey, I have a dumb-ish question about sizing.
Okay, on REI, it says that an X-Small bike is fit for people 5'0"-5'3", and a Small is 5'3"-5'6".
I'm exactly 5'3". Which size?!

That's REI's attempt at mass marketing its bikes. Bike fit is something to be done by a mechanic and is a function of your inseam (or distance to pubic bone), torso height, arm length and what type of riding it will be.

It's something you'll be doing thousands of repetitive motions on, not a t-shirt.

How important is wheelbase for load stability? Does it make a huge difference? I am trying to choose between using a 1982 model year steel bike that I have toured with before, which I know carries a load well, but has very old components, including 27 inch wheels and down tube shifters, and another 1998 model year steel bike I have which has newer components but a slightly shorter wheelbase. The 1982 bike has about a 40.25 inch wheelbase and the 1998 bike has about a 39 inch wheelbase. For comparison purposes, I noticed that the wheelbase on the new Trek 520s are about 41.5 inches.

I know there are lots of other considerations besides wheelbase, but I am wondering how much differerence wheelbase makes when it comes to stability?

Question:

I have a 2006 Kona Dr. Dew that has the stock Sun ME14A rims and I'm finding that I'm occassionally breaking spokes when I pack any significant weight. I'd like to do some light touring (overnighters) and extended commuting, but I'm a bit nervous about my current rim situation. I had the rear spokes replaced with sturdier ones, but I'm wondering if 28 spokes is just too few on a 700C rim.

I'm riding on 700 x 37C Continental Country Rides, have disc brakes and run with front/rear panniers. I weigh ~160 lbs.

What rims could someone recommend to put on my current bike?

(I'd kind of like to keep with my current tire sizing)

Thank you for any suggestions.

Spoke problems aren't related to the brand or quality of the rim. They are related to the quality and number of the spokes that make the wheel. The rim may flex a little on each rotation but the spokes do all the work. Your problem is that you are asking 28 spokes to do a whole lot of work that they may not be up for. For an unloaded bike with a pretty lightweight rider, 28 spokes would do just fine but as you increase your load much past your normal weight, you really should use a higher spoke count wheel.

It's doubly important because of the disc brakes. To see why, look at a rim brake wheel. It's still a disc brake, just one with really large rotors. As you apply braking force to the rim, the spokes can wind up a little because of their springiness. The amount is minute but they do flex a little. With a hub mounted disc, as you apply braking force it has to translate to the tires through the hub and then on to the rim. This will put much more force on the spoke heads than a rim brake will. Add to that the fact that the wheel is now dished on both sides for a rear wheel and on one side for the front. Dishing causes the spokes to have a shallower angle of attack towards the rim. If the wheel were solid, this wouldn't be a problem but because you are depending on the strength of a narrow wire, a shallower angle makes it weaker. Triangulation of the spoke helps it share the load better. That's the major reason that the front wheel seldom breaks spokes.

You best bet would be to replace the wheels with at least a 32 spoke wheel and preferably a 36 spoke wheel. My favorite spokes are the DT Alpine III. They aren't that much heavier than a normal double butted and they make for a super strong wheel.

How important is wheelbase for load stability? Does it make a huge difference? I am trying to choose between using a 1982 model year steel bike that I have toured with before, which I know carries a load well, but has very old components, including 27 inch wheels and down tube shifters, and another 1998 model year steel bike I have which has newer components but a slightly shorter wheelbase. The 1982 bike has about a 40.25 inch wheelbase and the 1998 bike has about a 39 inch wheelbase. For comparison purposes, I noticed that the wheelbase on the new Trek 520s are about 41.5 inches.

I know there are lots of other considerations besides wheelbase, but I am wondering how much differerence wheelbase makes when it comes to stability?

Think of the bike as a rather elaborate leaf spring. The longer the leaf, the smoother the ride and the better able the bike is to handle loads. The cost of this better ride is quickness. For example, a short wheelbase bike will respond quickly to rider input and will steer and ride like a bug-eyed Sprite (an Austin Healy sports car). It's going to be a lot of fun for zipping around town and for short trips. A long wheelbase bike will ride more like an old Cadilac. It won't respond that quickly to corners and it certainly won't be a sports car but it also won't beat the crap out of you.

To continue the car analogy, if you are going across the country with all of your stuff, the sports car isn't going to be comfortable. With all your stuff, the car (or bike) will need constant attention to keep it going down the road and not running off into a ditch. Hit a bump and that sporty ride is going to translate it right up your spine and you'll be worn out by the end of the day.

The Caddy is going to glide over the bumps and soak up the roughness. It may not have sporty handling but the handling will be predicable and not need constant attention to keep it moving down the road. In other words, you can relax and enjoy the trip.

For touring bike, a 39" wheelbase is pretty short. You probably have 16" chainstays on the bike. If you don't hit the bags with your heels, you must either be mounting the bags as far back as possible or you have tiny feet;) Moving the bags rearward will move the center of gravity of the bike further back and make your bike even quicker steering...not something you want on a loaded bike:eek:

cyccommute,

Thank you for taking the time on that response -- it was very enlightening.

I've had my rims rebuilt with heavier-gauge spokes, but if I have further probs I will move up to higher spoke-count rims.

Thanks again for the great post!

If the spoke is a straight gauge, it's not a strong as a butted spoke. Here's what Sheldon Brown has to say about them

Double-buttedspokes are thicker at the ends than in the middle. The most popular diameters are 2.0/1.8/2.0 mm (also known as 14/15 gauge) and 1.8/1.6/1.8 (15/16 gauge).
Double-butted spokes do more than save weight. The thick ends make them as strong in the highly-stressed areas as straight-gauge spokes of the same thickness, but the thinner middle sections make the spokes effectively more elastic. This allows them to stretch (temporarily) more than thicker spokes.

As a result, when the wheel is subjected to sharp localized stresses, the most heavily stressed spokes can elongate enough to shift some of the stress to adjoining spokes. This is particularly desirable when the limiting factor is how much stress the rim can withstand without cracking around the spoke hole.


Triple-butted spokes, such as the DT Alpine III, are the best choice when durability and reliability is the primary aim, as with tandems and bicycles for loaded touring. They share the advantages of single-butted and double-butted spokes. The DT Alpine III, for instance, is 2.34 mm (13 gauge) at the head, 1.8 mm (15 gauge) in the middle, and 2.0 mm (14 gauge) at the threaded end.
Single- and triple-butted spokes solve one of the great problems of wheel design: Since spokes use rolled, not cut threads, the outside diameter of the threads is larger than the base diameter of the spoke wire. Since the holes in the hub flanges must be large enough to fit the threads through, the holes, in turn are larger than the wire requires. This is undesirable, because a tight match between the spoke diameter at the elbow and the diameter of the flange hole is crucial to resisting fatigue-related breakage.

Since single- and triple-butted spokes are thicker at the head end than at the thread end, they may be used with hubs that have holes just large enough to pass the thick wire at the head end.

Hello All,
I'm am determined to do a month long tour while I am in Japan. I have read that the road and safety conditions are ideal. The problem is I don't yet have a touring bike and all the research I've done on American bikes doesn't really apply because those bikes are not offered in my part of Japan (Kyushu).
I would like to buy a Trek 520 type of bike but have only found Trek bikes that are out of my price range (as far as I know, Trek doesn't really offer touring bikes in Japan). The bike my nearest shop recommended is a Louis Garneau. I realize that it is probably not the best bike, but realizing that this will be my first tour & I may have to leave/sell the bike once I leave Japan, will this bike be sufficient? The gear information tends to confuse me, does this bike offer competent gearing? Is the aluminum Frame and Fork a deal breaker? The bike is about $950 U.S. http://www.louisgarneausports.com/bike/cyclo-gmt.htm
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone else in Kyushu, send me a note.
Richard

Like a Miyata 210/610. Outstanding touring platforms, and better frames than you can buy today.

I disagree. Having owned and toured on a Miyata 210, I can say without any hesitation that my Surly Long Haul Trucker is a better frame, period. The fork is stronger, the tubing is stiffer, the handling is better, the bike is more stable, there are more touring-appropriate frame braze-ons and every component that I buy for the bike fits correctly. And yet, the bike has the same weight. It feels a lot more sturdy than the old ride, though. The constant need to jury-rig components to get them to play nice together on my Miyata gave me fits.

That said, building up my LHT cost me around $1,000. Purchasing my 210 cost about $250. Stock, it would have been acceptable for touring, minus the brake pads. Still, I wanted things to be more to my personal taste, so I spent another $350-$400 or so altogether up until my first tour on it. I had a great touring bike for ~$600. I highly recommend going this route to anyone on a budget. There are better "vintage" touring frames out there than the Miyata 210, but not a whole lot of them. Most are roughly equivalent in quality. The fact is that modern touring frames and bicycles are generally technically superior to their older counterparts. How much better does that really make them? Well, when it comes to doing what a touring bike is supposed to do, not much. I only "upgraded" when my 210 bit the dust in an accident with a car (I'm fine - I hit HIM!).

I guess the point is that just about any bike can make a touring bike and that vintage touring bike are especially good choices, but if you can afford to buy new or can get a bargain on a used but more recent vintage of touring bike, well, maybe you should. They usually ARE better, and that makes it easier to enjoy the trip, in my opinion.

If a newbie is in the market for a touring bike I think the obvious answer is to get a Surly LHT
from jenson. Built with ok components and touring gears its $900.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI401G00-Surly+Long+Haul+Trucker+Bike.aspx

I came very close to buying the LHT at Jenson but in the end went with my LBS. The Jenson price is great, but if you explain your siutation to your fav LBS, they might be willing to work with you. The LBS that I'm loyal to originally quoted me about 1200+ for a LHT. I explained that I wanted them to get my money but couldn't afford a 300 dollar difference. They managed to crunch some numbers and let it go for $950. This will make things much more convenient if something goes wrong with your bike while still in town.

I suggest go bicycle camping first. You can usually do this with a back rack and backpack. My self I can even bicycle on city bus to several camp grounds.
One you will get a feel for it, and how your equipment does or doesn't work.
Two you get a taste for the great outdoors.

Here's a quick one: If a tourer is not going to do self-contained touring (with all the extra camping/cooking gear), in other words he or she will be staying at motels/hostels/b & bs etc., I'd like to suggest the following:

* Attach a front and rear rack. (My definite choice for the front rack is Old Man Mountain.)
* Use medium or small-sized front panniers. (My choice is the Ortliebs.)
* Carry a trunk on the rear rack.
* Attach a handle-bar bag.

This setup would provide all the carry-space you'd need, places to keep your valuables/more delicate items, and save you a few bucks by not purchasing rear rear panniers.

David in FL

don't know if it has been answered
but is modifying a Road bike into a touring bike something that's done?
or is it silly

depends on the bike, the shape, and what it's made of...

Trufance, modifying a roadbike is hard because most roadbike frames do not have the rear chainstay clearance to hang panniers without striking your heal against the pannier. Also, the tubing is made to be light not strong. A touring frame doesn't care about lightweight or speed, it cares about balance and strength, which is a completely different priority from a roadbike that's all about handling at the limit and using the lightest components possible. A road frame is fine for unloaded touring, but it is strongly advised against converting a road bike frame to a touring frame simply because the frame was not made to balance and carry the additional 60 lb. of odd weights all around the bike.
Also, most road bike forks are not made to allow clearance for tires larger than 28mm.

My understanding was the Miyata 210 is not really considered to be superior to current offerings. The 610 and, more so, the 1000 were considered to be serious tourers that were just about perfect off-the-shelf.... Not sure as I never rode one....

Probably not to be counted on if you are young, pierced, tattooed, non-white, or in any other way "different".

I 'd count on it. I did a little touring in South Africa and found the police would rather have the wierd stranger right where they could see them. Police have seen worse then you can imagine. Play by their rules and you will be fine.

The first real pain (after the line of blisters at the seat contact line turned to calluses) was knees:

Get low gears and use them! 80 - 90 revs per minute is required: no, you won't set any land speed records, but you will avoid trouble. And if you can't peddle that fast, then you are using too big of a gear. The first night I slept in a sitting position (night ferry from Shearness to Vlissinden) my knees went out within 20 km of the terminal; it felt like I had a nail driven through each of my kneecaps. It took a week of visiting friends before I could climb stairs without pain. When I slept in my tent, with my legs straight, I had no problem, but it returned after a night on a train. The second time I immediately halted and camped, and was able to proceed after 4 days. There appears to be a connection between these two observations (gears and knees).

Broken spokes: carry spare spokes, check your wheels regularly and replace them as soon as they happen. All I would do was tighten them to what the neighbouring spokes were and start riding; and the wheel would pull back into shape. So you need a spoke key as well.

Oil will not stop the squeeling of the bulls-eye pulley on the rear derailer (which for me started at about 3000 km coming south through the Ardennes). They have to be dismantled and greased.

Front and rear paniers also act as cushions in a side impact. My crank was bent and I was flung sideways, but my legs were uninjured.

Get a cycling cape and leggings as opposed to pants and a jacket. The ventilation is so much better...

I also endorse the Brooks leather saddle...

Hi,
I am getting a new bike, getting into touring again....planning to do some onger rides but also commuter too...
I have narrowed it down to
Bianchi Volpe or Surly LHT

any ideas on what would be the best choice?

the Bianchi Volpe doesn't have holes in the fronk forks for bags....but other than that?

Thanks...
Susanbb... newbie

Jamis Aurora
(oh that was not on the list!)

Definitely get frame with braze ons and screw holes... if you want to add things later, you can