Road Bike Racing - What a classy fella'

That Tom Boonen's something else, eh? He pretty much had the points competition for P-N all wrapped up, and then he drops out today, presumably to allow those smaller guys the opportunity for fame. He's got a couple wins to boost his confidence and track his training, he's the freaking World Champ; he doesn't need to win points classifications. He'll show what he's made of in La Primavera.

Cole

I haven't been following--do you mean Points or GC?

Points. Sprinter's joisey. He had nearly double the points of second place before he dropped out, I think.

Cole

... and then he drops out today, presumably to allow those smaller guys the opportunity for fame. ...
Sorry, no. He told the TV cameraman on a moto (during the stage) that he was leaving because he is in the Milan-San Remo next weekend. Presumably to save some energy.

I used to like him a lot, but he seems to be getting a big head lately. Cipollini was bad enough, then it was Petacchi. We really don't need another one.

I used to like him a lot, but he seems to be getting a big head lately. Cipollini was bad enough, then it was Petacchi. We really don't need another one.

Don't forget Robbie McEwan in that group. . .

Petacchi a bit head? Have you ever read/seen post race interviews w/ him? He always gives huge kudos to his team. He is 100x more humble than Cipo (aka horse face). For as good as Petacchi is, he should have a sickening ego - which he does not. Hell, even Boonen isn't bad at all.

I guess a question is... Have you ever won races? Can you relate to someone who wins often? Winning takes a certain personality type as 99% of guys who race (pros through Cat 5) never see the finish line 1st.

Not trying to be a di#k, just saying that Petacchi is quite humble for as good as he is, and Boonen is far from being a conceeded a-hole too.

Not trying to be a di#k, just saying that Petacchi is quite humble for as good as he is, and Boonen is far from being a conceeded a-hole too.

+1 McEwen, Petacchi and Boonen always give due respect to their teams for getting them to the line first. More importantly, though, I appreciate them actually admitting that they are one of the best cyclists in the world. I'd rather them be honest about their abilities relative to everyone one else than for them to be faslely humble.

Recent Boonen interviews reflect that. The guy has won a lot of races already this year, what do you expect him to say? "Uh, well, I just got to give it up to God who made this all possible, I just got lucky out there today, every day is a different race, I'd like to thank my agent."

Don't forget Robbie McEwan in that group. . .

Won't brook no bad talk about my boy. One of our junior riders had a horrible crash last year and you know who one of the first guys to send him a get well was? Robbie.

He's a tough SOB, but I've never seen him ride others into the barricades, unlike some of the other sprinters.

Cipollini was bad enough, then it was Petacchi. We really don't need another one.

Amen. Boonen seems like a pretty laid back, levelheaded guy in some of the interviews I've read, but I'd like to see him evolve into a grand tour GC contender. So far his strategy of dropping out of stage races has paid off nicely, but I hope it doesn't become a habit in July.

+1 McEwen, Petacchi and Boonen always give due respect to their teams for getting them to the line first. More importantly, though, I appreciate them actually admitting that they are one of the best cyclists in the world. I'd rather them be honest about their abilities relative to everyone one else than for them to be faslely humble.

Recent Boonen interviews reflect that. The guy has won a lot of races already this year, what do you expect him to say? "Uh, well, I just got to give it up to God who made this all possible, I just got lucky out there today, every day is a different race, I'd like to thank my agent."

Amen about Boonen. There's a lot of bogus modesty in pro sports across the board. Boonen, Petacchi, etc., just being frank and open about their goals, what's important to 'em. Strike me as pretty straight-up guys. I pull for 'em. M-SR will be a treat. Even that little a-hole McEwen calls it like he sees it; he just seems to be a real jackass with relatively little professional regard for his peers. Don't blame him for exchanging words with Lance -- cut from the same "little man" cloth -- but hooking people, cutting wheels, riding guys into the barriers, all sure seems to be pretty bush and unnecessary on this level. What would it be like if Barry Bonds were a pro cyclist?

Won't brook no bad talk about my boy. One of our junior riders had a horrible crash last year and you know who one of the first guys to send him a get well was? Robbie.

He's a tough SOB, but I've never seen him ride others into the barricades, unlike some of the other sprinters.

McEwen cheats:


"Danish talent Matti Breschel was on his way to a possible victory in Driedaagse van West-Vlaanderen, but then crashed badly as previously reported. The Team CSC rider was in the decisive 18-man breakaway on the final stage, a breakaway that also included the leading rider, Davitamon-Lotto's Robbie McEwen.

"I already won the intermediate sprint yesterday; and I was only seconds away from winning overall," Matti Breschel told Cyclingnews from the hospital in Torhout this morning. "I just knew that I was stronger than McEwen but I never got the chance to show that in the final sprint. He had already come beside me and given me a push a couple of times to intimidate me so I'd be reluctant to take him on in the sprint. But I was where I had to be in that final straight."

While referring to the Monday morning edition of Het Volk newspaper on his bedside table, Breschel's tone of voice changed. "I'm most upset because McEwen said to the Belgian press that I tried to get through a gap which wasn't there. But that's rubbish. We started sprinting in the middle of the road and Robbie took me from the middle to the left, trying to close the door on me by pushing me towards the barriers. He went down first because of his irregular sprinting, and it was his bike which brought me down and made me hit the barriers damn hard."

Watching the TV footage of the event, race commissaires later relegated the Australian to 44th place for irregular sprinting. "Ok, they disqualified McEwen, but he walked away unscathed and although it is good to know that the commissaires saw what he was doing, their decision doesn't put me back in competition for the spring classics!," a very sore and battered Breschel said. "I've got to admit I'm seriously pissed off right now." Two fractures vertebrae and a serious concussion will keep the Dane out of racing for a few weeks, meaning he will miss out on the spring classics he was so focused on.+ -- cyclingnews.com 3/5/06

Sorry but in the world of proffessional cycling the sprinters world is 'rubbin is racin'. If you get a chance watch the video of last years Giro. Every overhead shot of the groups sprints all you see is shoulders and elbows flying. These guys play rough and Robbie is one of the roughest.

Sorry but in the world of proffessional cycling the sprinters world is 'rubbin is racin'. If you get a chance watch the video of last years Giro. Every overhead shot of the groups sprints all you see is shoulders and elbows flying. These guys play rough and Robbie is one of the roughest.

I respect your opinion as much as anyone's, but there's a difference. Contact is expected. Back in my racing days -- such as they were -- I leaned on people, stuck out an elbow to hold a wheel, touched a hip or two to move someone over, shouted, used the odd choice euphemism, etc. But it's a whole other thing to ride dirty. McEwen rides dirty. Shame, because he has some physical class, but one suspects just not quite enough to go wheel-to-wheel with Boonen, Petacchi, and maybe even Hushovd. Those guys don't ride like Robbie M., mainly because they don't have to. McEwen, when he gets a whiff of somebody actually BEATING him, like Breschel appeared likely to do, stops at nothing to prevent it from happening. Screwed himself out of the green jersey in Paris last year because his "little man" craziness couldn't stand that the semi-washed up O'Grady was about to pip him in a sprint. Notice that he went after Stuey, not Boonen, who's got 6 or 7 inches on him and probably forty punds. He's a pric_. lance was a pric_, too, he just acquired a little polish over time.

McEwen is no better or worse than any of the other sprinters. The only class sprinter over the last 10 years who I can't recall doing anything questionable (either a DQ or much media comment) is Hushovd.

He's a pric_. lance was a pric_, too, he just acquired a little polish over time.

If you didnt say lance was a prick, I would take that last comment as flame bait against us Aussies.

I dont think us Aussies have been this represented in pro cycling, so I root for any aussie thats winning, even if hes a prick

I respect your opinion as much as anyone's, but there's a difference. Contact is expected. Back in my racing days -- such as they were -- I leaned on people, stuck out an elbow to hold a wheel, touched a hip or two to move someone over, shouted, used the odd choice euphemism, etc. But it's a whole other thing to ride dirty. McEwen rides dirty. Shame, because he has some physical class, but one suspects just not quite enough to go wheel-to-wheel with Boonen, Petacchi, and maybe even Hushovd. Those guys don't ride like Robbie M., mainly because they don't have to. McEwen, when he gets a whiff of somebody actually BEATING him, like Breschel appeared likely to do, stops at nothing to prevent it from happening. Screwed himself out of the green jersey in Paris last year because his "little man" craziness couldn't stand that the semi-washed up O'Grady was about to pip him in a sprint. Notice that he went after Stuey, not Boonen, who's got 6 or 7 inches on him and probably forty punds. He's a pric_. lance was a pric_, too, he just acquired a little polish over time.

Yeah in case you missed it, the reason he head-butted O'Grady was because O'Grady had already thrown an elbow at his head, and then held it there, in order to impede him. But many people overlook that fact. I respect Robbie because he'll sell his soul to get to the line first, and doesn't need a damn armchair ride like Petacchi to do it.

Have you seen the video Veloduo? Mcewen was coming from 3rd of 4th wheel, and Breschel got the perfect leadout. It looked like Mcewen would take him, but MCewen could have dies and Breschel might have held on and had the strength.

Breschel took the line to the barriers at the start. Mcewen got in on his shoulder but side by side so the marginal slipstream benefit would be his. 'dats racin, both taking the line to the barriers where the win is calm.

Breschel appeared to get antsy, nervous as Mcewen had his shoulder and was rding him on that line. He corrected, but OVER-corrected and really took Mcewen by surprise as Mcewen is the most talented handler in the peloton. It looked like Breschel did a mini hook, NOT intentionally, just in the act of over correcting as he was throwing his bars to and fro. *Note this correction could have come after they locked bars, so not 100% on it.

Mcewen's bars or brake caught on Breschel's bars and he went down, and then made Breschel go into the barrier.

My take, if Breschel was an experienced sprinter it would not have happened. I don't see how MCewen can be dq'ed *except in expediency* when Breschel took the line to the barriers first. It also looked as if it sloped down that way too. If one takes the view that a racing line can be taken to the barriers, when the sprint begins, and then obviously corect the line along the barriers, versus a tangent from the sprint start to the end line on whatever angle as long as it is at the finish line, and not to the barrier, Mcewen should be clean. The overcorrection by Breschel was just as much to blame than Mcewn getting in close to Breschel. Besides, worse is seen every day.

In case some of you "Let's all Get Along World Peace" weenies haven't noticed, pro cycling is a VERY tough, dangerous, grueling sport. And generally speaking, Nice Guys Don't Win. You saw how many Tours Jan won after 1997 with his total lack of a killer instinct. No knock on Jan. I LOVE Jan. But there it is.

Most Tour winners and successful pro bike racers do have it. A few notable exceptions (Miguel Indurain does come to mind).

That being said that Boonen kid is very scary. God forbid he turns into a big mtn. climber. Man he can sure crush those shorter steeper Spring Classic climbs eh? Ask George Hincapie about that.

Amen. Boonen seems like a pretty laid back, levelheaded guy in some of the interviews I've read, but I'd like to see him evolve into a grand tour GC contender. So far his strategy of dropping out of stage races has paid off nicely, but I hope it doesn't become a habit in July.

Boonen's a little big to be a serious GC contender. He did drop out during the tour last year and I made a mental note to see if he does it again, right before the mountians like Cipo used to do.

Boonen's a little big to be a serious GC contender. He did drop out during the tour last year and I made a mental note to see if he does it again, right before the mountians like Cipo used to do.

Well there was Indurain, not to say they have a comparable style.

Yeah, I hope Boonen doesn't turn into Cipo. Boooooring.

Yeah in case you missed it, the reason he head-butted O'Grady was because O'Grady had already thrown an elbow at his head, and then held it there, in order to impede him. But many people overlook that fact. I respect Robbie because he'll sell his soul to get to the line first, and doesn't need a damn armchair ride like Petacchi to do it.

The "elbows out" maneuver is a time-honored ploy sprinters have used for decades. What happened with Mc and Stuey is that Stuey had the spot and it pissed Robbie off. That battle, I understand, really dated back to junior days in Oz -- those two hate each other. Can't understand why, Robbie being such a charmer and all...

Guess I stirred up the 'Roos. That's fine. It's great they root for their boys. Even when they're jackasses. Hell, a third of a billion Americans managed to delude themselves about what a great guy Lance was for 6-7 years and root for that pric_. It's all good.

A lot of us have raced against guys like McEwen (chip on the shoulder-wise, not talent-wise). I doubt very many of us at all then subsequently root for the little shi_s. And Lance was very definitely the same kind of jackass; he just had a better PR team and a little more compelling schtick.

Yeah in case you missed it, the reason he head-butted O'Grady was because O'Grady had already thrown an elbow at his head, and then held it there, in order to impede him. ...

Yeah - Robbie shouldn't have done that, but it definitely was provoked.

Why this desire to see Boonen turn into a GC guy? It's as if he's a lesser rider because he wins one day races and not grand tours.

He is not a one trick poney like Cipo or Peta. He is an stunningly strong one day rider who also has the ability to sprint with the best of them.

If I remember correctly, he dropped out of last years TDF because of a nasty injury caused by a crash while crossing some tracks. He has the ability to finish stages in the autobus al la Zabel.

For better or worse Robbie is the kind of guy who give back twice what he is given. Yeah he shouldn't have leaned on Stuey so hard but Stuey started it and Robbie always finishes it. If you pull a knife on Robbie he'll pull an M50 so be prepared.

I have mass respect for all sprinters they are bravest guys in the peleton, some play rougher than others but they all play rough.

Ok, I understand that they are not choir boys, and its a rough sport, but of the top sprinters, is anybody relegated more often than butthead?

I think that is the first crash Mcewen has caused as far as I know.

Try watching stage 2 in the 2004 tour. Boonen switches line violently, VIOLENTLY, and Kirsipuu has to mirror that tack or he will have his front wheel taken out. Kirsipuus dramatic shift takes out Casper and Kurt Asle Arvesen.

Boonen no relegation.

See stage 7, 2005, Davis switches line, but not as dramatic as Boonen. He causes Galvez to go down who takes Furlan with him. Handbags at 10 paces.

Davis relegated, plus a thousand franc fine. Boonen Scott Moninger free? Why the bias.

Poeple get bad reputations because of their perceptions and Mcewen rap is from his pugnacious stance in the media, he is blunt, pithy and spares no prisoners.

If you didnt say lance was a prick, I would take that last comment as flame bait against us Aussies.

I dont think us Aussies have been this represented in pro cycling, so I root for any aussie thats winning, even if hes a prick

Since when do the Aussies need flame bait?

Poeple get bad reputations because of their perceptions and Mcewen rap is from his pugnacious stance in the media, he is blunt, pithy and spares no prisoners.


Precisely why we love him!!!1

Ok, I understand that they are not choir boys, and its a rough sport, but of the top sprinters, is anybody relegated more often than butthead?

Beavis.

And who else is going to give a blunt answer like this?

"It might be a flat stage but it's going to be hot and windy and, let's face it, we're two weeks into the Tour and there are almost dead bodies on bikes out there." ;)

Over the past year I've come to have some admiration for Robbie and Bob Roll - both of whom I held in rather low regard until I looked a little closer. They're both a bit rough around the edges, but undeniably the genuine article.

Why this desire to see Boonen turn into a GC guy? It's as if he's a lesser rider because he wins one day races and not grand tours.

He is not a one trick poney like Cipo or Peta. He is an stunningly strong one day rider who also has the ability to sprint with the best of them.

If I remember correctly, he dropped out of last years TDF because of a nasty injury caused by a crash while crossing some tracks. He has the ability to finish stages in the autobus al la Zabel.

I totally agree with you, I think Boonen is a GREAT one day rider. There's a great looking interview and article in one of the cycling mags I have not had the time to shoplift yet. Oops, I mean "purchase."

Everytime I see Boonen in the front of a pack toward the finish line, I always think "good luck" directed toward the other riders. It's going to be a lot of years watching Boonen have a great career. Plus, he always seems to be happy with the sport and responsible to fans and the press; which is always good to see.

What I meant about last year's Tour Day France, is that we were TOLD he dropped out because of an injury. I never know what to believe. Because Cipolini used to make it clear he hated mountains and drop out, I assume it's possible someone like Boonen could drop out claiming an injury so as not to piss off the Tour director like Cipo used to do. Wasn't Cipo asked not to race the tour in his last year of racing because he would always drop out?

I'm not saying Boonen did or didn't really have an injury; I just made a note to see of he drops out again right before the mountains.

Lastly, you said Boonen is "a stunningly strong one day rider." Well, did you see the stage in Paris-Nice where Boonen's chain slipped at the beginning of the sprint. Boonen's rear wheel lifted off the gound and TB had time to look back at it, replant the bike, power ahead of everyone and still win the sprint. "Stunningly strong" doesn't even begin to describe how strong he is and how much control he has.

...What I meant about last year's Tour Day France, is that we were TOLD he dropped out because of an injury. I never know what to believe. ...

A day or two before he withdrew, television showed him riding with a much-sullied uniform. He had unquestionably gone down and no doubt had some nasty bruises (on back and hip judging from the marks on his kit). Certainly, he wasn't going to challenge for stage wins in the mountains, but I'd be very surprised if winning the Green Jersey at the Tour de France isn't up there with Milan-San Remo, the Tour of Flanders, Paris-Roubaix and the World Championship on his list of goals for any given year.

edit - I stand corrected, it was his knee - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/4681965.stm

Boonen looks like a chicken when he's sprinting. Head bobbing up and down.

He's said that one of his goals is the green jersey. I'd love to see him, Hushovd and Robbie go after that one.

Boonen's a little big to be a serious GC contender. He did drop out during the tour last year and I made a mental note to see if he does it again, right before the mountians like Cipo used to do.

He was hurt last year. Not the same thing.

In case some of you "Let's all Get Along World Peace" weenies haven't noticed, pro cycling is a VERY tough, dangerous, grueling sport. And generally speaking, Nice Guys Don't Win. You saw how many Tours Jan won after 1997 with his total lack of a killer instinct. No knock on Jan. I LOVE Jan. But there it is.

Most Tour winners and successful pro bike racers do have it. A few notable exceptions (Miguel Indurain does come to mind).

That being said that Boonen kid is very scary. God forbid he turns into a big mtn. climber. Man he can sure crush those shorter steeper Spring Classic climbs eh? Ask George Hincapie about that.

Good point about the killer instinct. I have about 7 wins to my credit and I have it. I know plenty of guys who can drop me on road rides that have never won a thing, and that is probably why.

As far as the danger of sprinting goes, I feel sorry for Matti Breschel, but if he can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Boonen looks like a chicken when he's sprinting. Head bobbing up and down.

looking like a chicken or not, he's d@mn good

Try watching stage 2 in the 2004 tour. Boonen switches line violently, VIOLENTLY, and Kirsipuu has to mirror that tack or he will have his front wheel taken out. Kirsipuus dramatic shift takes out Casper and Kurt Asle Arvesen. Boonen no relegation.There was no relegation for two reasons: 1. Boonen swerved because he broke his pedal. 2. Boonen didn't place in the points.



See stage 7, 2005, Davis switches line, but not as dramatic as Boonen. He causes Galvez to go down who takes Furlan with him. Davis relegated, plus a thousand franc fine. Boonen Scott Moninger free? Why the bias. See exlanation above. Davis's riding was unsafe and in his control. Plus, he had a place and points to lose as a penalty by his relegation.

There was no relegation for two reasons: 1. Boonen swerved because he broke his pedal. 2. Boonen didn't place in the points.


See exlanation above. Davis's riding was unsafe and in his control. Plus, he had a place and points to lose as a penalty by his relegation.

Walter Walter Walter, got footage of the stage 2 sprint? He was following an echelon/sprinting line he had no right to follow because he was crossing all these sprinters' lines behind him. If you watch it is very obvious. Overcoming the CSC doco shows an upclose of it, and then you see him look down at his crank arm, but after he made his shift for the racing line. The mechanical had nothing to do with it.

Just what is your motive in this specious claim. Take a look, any objective person would see that. His place on that stage was not too much further back than Davis. Boonen got sprint points also.

You are a fool son.

stage 2 2004

1 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Lotto-Domo 35 pts
2 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Crédit Agricole 30
3 Jean-Patrick Nazon (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance 26
4 Danilo Hondo (Ger) Gerolsteiner 24
5 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone 22
6 Jaan Kirsipuu (Est) AG2R Prévoyance 20
7 Erik Zabel (Ger) T-Mobile Team 19
8 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 18
9 Gerrit Glomser (Aut) Saeco 17
10 Mario Cipollini (Ita) Domina Vacanze 16
11 Peter Wrolich (Aut) Gerolsteiner 15
12 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step-Davitamon 14
13 Aart Vierhouten (Ned) Lotto-Domo 13
14 Sylvain Calzati (Fra) R.A.G.T. Semences - MG Rover 12
15 Baden Cooke (Aus) Fdjeux.com 11
16 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère 10
17 Franck Renier (Fra) Brioches La Boulangère 9
18 Martin Elmiger (Swi) Phonak Hearing Systems 8
19 Salvatore Commesso (Ita) Saeco 7
20 Laurent Brochard (Fra) AG2R Prévoyance 6
21 Mikel Pradera Rodriguez (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto 5
22 Daniel Becke (Ger) Illes Balears - Banesto 4
23 Jimmy Engoulvent (Fra) Cofidis - Le Crédit Par Téléphone 3
24 Christophe Brandt (Bel) Lotto-Domo 2
25 Aitor Gonzalez Jimenez (Spa) Fassa Bortolo 1

Stage 7 2005

Davis was somewhere between 6th and 10th prior to relegation.

Walter Walter Walter, got footage of the stage 2 sprint? He was following an echelon/sprinting line he had no right to follow because he was crossing all these sprinters' lines behind him. If you watch it is very obvious. Overcoming the CSC doco shows an upclose of it, and then you see him look down at his crank arm, but after he made his shift for the racing line. The mechanical had nothing to do with it.

Just what is your motive in this specious claim. Take a look, any objective person would see that. His place on that stage was not too much further back than Davis. Boonen got sprint points also.

You are a fool son.Personally I think anyone who takes a discussion of a bike race seriously enough to call someone a fool over it has some serious motivation problems. :rolleyes:

Boonen broke his pedal on stage 2 in the 2004 TDF. I guess you didn't know that. His looking at his cranks wasn't enough of a clue for you? Maybe if he held up a sign a that said, "I broke my pedal.", for the camera so you could see it on your WCP dvd you'd be convinced? He wasn't relegated, none of the riders affected by his move complained(even though Casper and Arveson were both crashed), and it was because it was a mechanical.

and my motive for saying this is to talk about bike racing.

Only a coward calls names on the internet. ;)

Only a coward calls names on the internet. ;)

+1

Personally I think anyone who takes a discussion of a bike race seriously enough to call someone a fool over it has some serious motivation problems. :rolleyes:

Boonen broke his pedal on stage 2 in the 2004 TDF. I guess you didn't know that. His looking at his cranks wasn't enough of a clue for you? Maybe if he held up a sign a that said, "I broke my pedal.", for the camera so you could see it on your WCP dvd you'd be convinced? He wasn't relegated, none of the riders affected by his move complained(even though Casper and Arveson were both crashed), and it was because it was a mechanical.

and my motive for saying this is to talk about bike racing.

Only a coward calls names on the internet. ;)

not a name nor epithet but an apt description. He shifted to follow the left hand echelon. He did not shift because his crank was broken. I don't doubt that his crank broke but I think it was also a little "justification"... gees can't win here and won't make up any ground with no pwer through the bb, so lets just rest on the mechanical failure. He was taking alot of heat in the Belgian press.

A fool is someone who can't see the cause when it is before their eyes. You sir, fit that desciption.

+1
+1=2

we can progress on to chaos theory 101 and nuclear physics 102 now folks.

not a name nor epithet but an apt description. He shifted to follow the left hand echelon. He did not shift because his crank was broken. I don't doubt that his crank broke but I think it was also a little "justification"... gees can't win here and won't make up any ground with no pwer through the bb, so lets just rest on the mechanical failure. He was taking alot of heat in the Belgian press.

A fool is someone who can't see the cause when it is before their eyes. You sir, fit that desciption.

I would think that when the T-Mobile team manager gives information he got from the riders in the stage, and he states that he supports the conclusion that a collision caused by a rider on an opposing squad was due to mechanical failure, you could be rather well certain that was what really happened.

One more bit of simple math before I quit. The stage finish was in Belgium. Boonen was the guy the Belgian press would have been looking for to win the stage. He didn't win. He took heat. Here's the formula: Expectation + Disappointment = Heat. Multiply that by a few factors and you'll get some sense of what Jan has gone through for the past several years.

Multiply that by a few factors and you'll get some sense of what Jan has gone through for the past several years.


Except Jan's grief is self inflicted. It came in the form of too much strudel. ;)

not a name nor epithet but an apt description. He shifted to follow the left hand echelon. He did not shift because his crank was broken. I don't doubt that his crank broke but I think it was also a little "justification"... gees can't win here and won't make up any ground with no pwer through the bb, so lets just rest on the mechanical failure. He was taking alot of heat in the Belgian press.

A fool is someone who can't see the cause when it is before their eyes. You sir, fit that desciption.Since you've decided to become my dog, here's a bone for you to chew on. If you're nice, I'll throw you another.

from cyclingnews.com, July 8, 2004:

Boonen: "I hesitated"

"Today, not winning is my own fault," Tom Boonen told the Belgian press after Tuesday's stage three, won by Robbie McEwen. "One second of doubting was fatal. I didn't want to take any risks. Five hundred metres before the line, I put it in the highest gear; afraid the chain might jump again. I normally never do that. But I was too nervous about having the same mechanical problem as in the previous sprints.

Now you were saying something about, "...can't see the cause when it is before their eyes..."???

Walt if you read Thunders original post he doesn't necessarily disagree with you. He saying that Boonens move preceded his mechanical failure. Yes Boonen had a pedal break but he made an 'aggressive' move before his pedal broke not because of.

Since you've decided to become my dog, here's a bone for you to chew on. If you're nice, I'll throw you another.

from cyclingnews.com, July 8, 2004:

Boonen: "I hesitated"

"Today, not winning is my own fault," Tom Boonen told the Belgian press after Tuesday's stage three, won by Robbie McEwen. "One second of doubting was fatal. I didn't want to take any risks. Five hundred metres before the line, I put it in the highest gear; afraid the chain might jump again. I normally never do that. But I was too nervous about having the same mechanical problem as in the previous sprints.

Now you were saying something about, "...can't see the cause when it is before their eyes..."???
Stage 2 after his shifting line, and a few seconds *no more than 3* sprint he sits down on the saddle and stops, then looks down at the bb. To my eyes, that spells something wrong. Especially when he could have still salvaged a top 5 and maybe even a podium place on that stage.

That does not account for his move. His move may well have coincided with the break in the crank arm or on thepedal/cleat or bb. Because it was his first stomp that may have done the greatest damage, or the first few stomps. But his line was intentional, he had full control of the bike as you can see, especially evident if you watch Overcoming (CSC doco *since KAA crashed).

Look at the break of the line on the right of screen, where Dean is taking Hushovd in pursuit of Mcewen who has just launched himself with about 200 to go. That is the shortest route home, and it is also the leading echelone or sprinters line with Dean *Credit Agricole being the arrow head, after Mcewen.

Boonen was poorly positioned on the far right and he jumped and crossed many sprinters line, which would have been fine usually if you have enough room, it is fair game. But there was not room. He would have taken down Kirsipuu. Boonen was responsible for choosing this line, just like Davis. In a sprint where no one falls and someone is impeded in minor placings from 5th through 10th, I say this is sprinting, you need to expect this, just like Breschel should not have got nervous. No one comes down, bad luck someone took your racing line, you need to be quicker and better positioned next time. But Kirsipuu's front wheel was almost taken out which had a domino effect. *It would have been taken out.

Boonen should have been relegated. Simple. There should not be any discussion about it. The line was too dramatic, and his control over the bike too obvious, to explain away, to justify such a dangerous move.

I think there is a few percent modicum of doubt over the mechanical failure and its contribution to Boonen's racing line. A few percent, on the balance of probabilities, there is 97% that suggests it not germane in the resulting event.

Sorry I called you a fool WG, but I hope you take an objective look at the footage to see the anomalies, in Davis v Galvez/Furlan, Boonen v Kirsipuu/Casper/KAA and Mcewen v Breschel. It is rarely straight forward nor black and white whereas a race jury's decision comes down relegation or dq, v no penalty.

btw, I will recheck the footage myself, and correct my analysis if so needed.

Walt if you read Thunders original post he doesn't necessarily disagree with you. He saying that Boonens move preceded his mechanical failure. Yes Boonen had a pedal break but he made an 'aggressive' move before his pedal broke not because of.Yes, I understand what he is saying, even though he has backtracked from originally calling the existence of a mechanical problem a "specious claim". :p But I'm saying that the evidence points to Boonen's move coinciding with his pedal break/drivetrain problem.

Unlike some other riders, Boonen doesn't have a history for tactics like switching sides of the road in the middle of a sprint. Granted, this was early in his career, but he still doesn't show those types of inclinations. Take his sprint in 05 MSR. He could have quite possible have bullied his way to the front if he had ridden a bit more aggressively, but he is not a McEwen/Baffi/Abdoujaparov type sprinter.

I think the facts suggest that Boonen's mechanical led to his veering. The other riders all just kept their mouths shut even though a couple got beat up pretty bad in the ensuing crash, no one was relegated, Kirsipuu was silent, and you know they wouldn't have been quiet if Boonen had been riding recklessly. The officials certainly aren't going to pick favorites when judging reckless riding, especially when there is a crash. Ask Paolo Bettini, and he wasn't even riding recklessly. ;)

Anyway, none of this is worth calling names over.

Yes, I understand what he is saying, even though he has backtracked from originally calling the existence of a mechanical problem a "specious claim". :p But I'm saying that the evidence points to Boonen's move coinciding with his pedal break/drivetrain problem.

Unlike some other riders, Boonen doesn't have a history for tactics like switching sides of the road in the middle of a sprint. Granted, this was early in his career, but he still doesn't show those types of inclinations. Take his sprint in 05 MSR. He could have quite possible have bullied his way to the front if he had ridden a bit more aggressively, but he is not a McEwen/Baffi/Abdoujaparov type sprinter.

I think the facts suggest that Boonen's mechanical led to his veering. The other riders all just kept their mouths shut even though a couple got beat up pretty bad in the ensuing crash, no one was relegated, Kirsipuu was silent, and you know they wouldn't have been quite if Boonen had been riding recklessly. The officials certainly aren't going to pick favorites when judging reckless riding, especially when there is a crash. Ask Paolo Bettini, and he wasn't even riding recklessly. ;)

Anyway, none of this is worth calling names over.

no never backtracked WG, the specious claim rightfully stands. The mechanical as a causal factor for his racing line, IS a fallacy, and is specious.

I still attest that.