Triathlon - Getting my a$$ kicked.

I was never much of an athlete in High School but I've always had a decent physique. As my 30th birthday approaches I've decided I want to get in the best shape of my life and I've started Tri training. I've been training for a tri since february 1st but I've been working out periodically for years. The problem?

My training partner is a girl from work who drinks quite a bit and hasn't really been working out. When we run she has no problems at all. When we swim, she is like a fish and can easily lap me.

What am I doing wrong that with more training I can't keep up? Are there things I can do to improve upon this apparently weak fitness level? I don't intend on being sexist as I am aware there are MANY women out there that would dust me I'm just feeling down about the progress I have (or haven't) made thus far. :(

Any ideas would be appreciated...

I've discovered the hard way that good technique in swimming counts for a great deal, and lack of it a great disadvantage, somewhat independent of general aerobic fitness level.

Find a good swim coach and have them look at your swim technique; take some lessons. I found that watching video of me swimming was enormously illuminating (and moderately embarassing ) in pointing out flaws. Now that I've had a few months of coaching, my swim times have improved substantially.

I don´t want to discourage you but I have come to the conclusion that some people are just not naturally gifted athletes. Unfortunately I have to count myself in that assessment. I think I am probably a lot fitter and stronger than most people but only because I exercise regularly (cycling and weight training) while most people are just couch potatos. I am OK at strength type stuff but at aerobic fitness I am not nearly as good as I should be and never will be. I will certainly never be in the Tour.

Scientific studies on exercise have shown that people vary enormously in how they respond to exercise. High responders are the professional athletes who get a high return on their exercise investment. But the range runs right down to non-responders who hardly improve at all however much they exercise.

I used to be much faster when I drank too. It was hard on my liver, though.

Seriously, keep at it and you'll see some huge improvement soon, I'm betting. It's not a smooth curve. Sometimes it's flat and then a big jump up. Keep turning those pedals. And lay off the hooch even though you may be tempted to join your partner.

As I once heard someone say, put a world class swimmer (some of the fittest people on the planet!) on a bike, and watch them suffer. Put a world class cyclist in the pool, and watch them flounder.

Being fit is a good starting point, but each exercise has its own muscles it emphasizes. A less fit person with a 6 month head start on you running-wise will outrun you...for a while.

Keep with the running and the cycling, and I'm sure you'll see huge improvements before too long.

Swimming, as others have said, is problematic. A 90lb woman with great technique will outswim any n00b, period. I don't care how strong or fit they are. Technique is hugely, vastly important in swimming.

For starters, just getting to the point where you're relaxed and comfortable in the water will help immensely. Sooner or later, though, getting some help with your technique will probably be advisable.

Don't give up! You should improve fairly quickly.

V

V-
"Swimming, as others have said, is problematic. A 90lb woman with great technique will outswim any n00b, period. I don't care how strong or fit they are. Technique is hugely, vastly important in swimming."

I totally agree, and she did use to be on a swim team. What I think bothered me so much was that I've been training for about a month in the pool now and thought I was progressing nicely until I was next to her. I used to be a lifeguard and while we didn't spend THAT much time on technique I felt like I had a decent grip until now. :(

The good news is that training with her has motivated me. I'm going to up the times on all of my workouts by 10-15 minutes a piece and try and push myself harder because through working out with her I've realized that I'm not pushing myself as hard as would be beneficial to me. From what I can tell from my swim stroke it seems I need to work on my kick power and on "pushing the bouy" so that my legs and butt don't sink so far down. The rest of my stroke does pretty well but could use smaller improvements.

Total Immersion swimming. Get the book and the video. Better yet go to a Total Immersion clinic. Swimming is the most technique based of the 3 sports. Anybody who was on their high school swim team, even in lousy shape, will outswim a well conditioned athlete with lousy swimming technique.

As Lincoln said when they told him Grant was a drinker "find out what it is that he drinks".

Good Luck
Joe

I was never much of an athlete in High School but I've always had a decent physique. As my 30th birthday approaches I've decided I want to get in the best shape of my life and I've started Tri training. I've been training for a tri since february 1st but I've been working out periodically for years. The problem?

My training partner is a girl from work who drinks quite a bit and hasn't really been working out. When we run she has no problems at all. When we swim, she is like a fish and can easily lap me.

What am I doing wrong that with more training I can't keep up? Are there things I can do to improve upon this apparently weak fitness level? I don't intend on being sexist as I am aware there are MANY women out there that would dust me I'm just feeling down about the progress I have (or haven't) made thus far. :(

Any ideas would be appreciated...


Swimming is 90% technique so just keep working the appropriate drills to improve your stroke. Since FEB 1st isn’t long so just be consistent in your training and you'll surly improve as the months go by.

Good Luck :)

First of all, everyone has provided some sound advice. The Total Immersion swimming DVD is fantastic. I absolutely recommend it.

Personally, I talked with the lifeguards at my workout facility and had them critique my form and provide tips. All of them also happened to be on the local high school swim team and they helped tremendously.

Lastly, she may kill you on the swim (if you're doing a sprint distance tri) and only beat you by 3-4 mins, which you can totally make up on the bike. Example, my buddy was a college all-american swimmer. He dusted me on the swim and that's putting it lightly (beat me by 3 mins on a 500y swim!) and I dusted him on the bike. On a 15 mile bike course, I was able to make up the time and put time between us he couldn't make up.

Swimming, in my humble opinion, takes a while to perfect the form. I would be patient and keep cranking on the bike. You can make up the time!!!

The good news is that training with her has motivated me. I'm going to up the times on all of my workouts by 10-15 minutes a piece and try and push myself harder because through working out with her I've realized that I'm not pushing myself as hard as would be beneficial to me. From what I can tell from my swim stroke it seems I need to work on my kick power and on "pushing the bouy" so that my legs and butt don't sink so far down. The rest of my stroke does pretty well but could use smaller improvements.

Just two cents from a (very) experienced swimmer...

You really DON'T want to work on your kick power. Why? When you kick hard, your heartrate goes through the roof and you waste O2. It's very inefficient to kick hard - that's why you only see sprinters doing it - it's only for the short-term. The rest of us use what's called a two-beat kick, which essentially doesn't look like kicking at all. It's very efficient (in fact, the only way for me to get my heartrate UP when I'm swimming is to start kicking more, or do a different stroke).

You need to work on your overall technique, most likely body position if you're having trouble with your feet and arse sinking, and also your catch and pull. Try not to use a pull buoy too much - it's like a crutch, plus it can put undue strain on your shoulders. So nevermind about the kick - you'll just find yourself blowing even harder. If your friend is a good swimmer, maybe you ought to offer her a case of her favorite beer in exchange for a mini-lesson! ;)

You know I started about the same time and there are a few people at the gym who consistently kick my butt in the pool. But I don't judge myself against people who have been swimming their whole lives. I try to gauge myself against myself -- in other words go for more distance and time. I figure the 1200 meters I'm swimming now is better than the 25 meters I was swimming when I started. It's about time, though, to work on speed. And speed, like stamina, will get better as time goes by.

Oh and I did my first times 500m today -- 10:21. I'm happy even though that's a bit on the slow side.

You know I started about the same time and there are a few people at the gym who consistently kick my butt in the pool. But I don't judge myself against people who have been swimming their whole lives. I try to gauge myself against myself -- in other words go for more distance and time. I figure the 1200 meters I'm swimming now is better than the 25 meters I was swimming when I started. It's about time, though, to work on speed. And speed, like stamina, will get better as time goes by.

Oh and I did my first timed 500m today -- 10:21. I'm happy even though that's a bit on the slow side.

I don't think that you should compare yourself to other people. I try not to compare myself to other people during training. That is what race day is for! Keep at your training, set reasonable goals, and push yourself to your max until you cross the finish line.

I went into the pool today after lengthening most of my workouts by 10-15 minutes this week. Spent a great deal of time focusing on some of the things she had talked with me about and I'm feeling a little better about it. I was able to "push the bouy" and get my back side up more while focusing on getting my arms in the right places during my stroke. I went slower at first but I assume this will improve with time. I think I am going to up my swim and run to 3 times a week both just so that I can really get them under control before the first sprint in June. My biking is pretty strong and I don't imagine that more training will help THAT much more in a 13.5 mile bike ride.

Anyhow, I wanted to let you guys know that I wasn't completely down and out. I've walked away with some valuable lessons methinks. :)

Now that we're finally seeing some snow melt up here, I'm starting to see some Swim Technique seminars/sessions around town. I'd imagine that lots of community pools will be having sessions like this, geared towards triathletes. Sounds to me like a great opportunity!

Just two cents from a (very) experienced swimmer...

You really DON'T want to work on your kick power. Why? When you kick hard, your heartrate goes through the roof and you waste O2. It's very inefficient to kick hard - that's why you only see sprinters doing it - it's only for the short-term. The rest of us use what's called a two-beat kick, which essentially doesn't look like kicking at all. It's very efficient (in fact, the only way for me to get my heartrate UP when I'm swimming is to start kicking more, or do a different stroke).

You need to work on your overall technique, most likely body position if you're having trouble with your feet and arse sinking, and also your catch and pull. Try not to use a pull buoy too much - it's like a crutch, plus it can put undue strain on your shoulders. So nevermind about the kick - you'll just find yourself blowing even harder. If your friend is a good swimmer, maybe you ought to offer her a case of her favorite beer in exchange for a mini-lesson! ;)

I started to write a reply but see that H20Chick said exactly what I was advising. She is obviously someone with lots of knowledge and experience. I learned this one day when a person in the next lane told me to not try kicking so hard. He advised that the kick motion isn't to propel you so much as just to keep your body in the proper position in the water while your hands, arms, and shoulders do all the work. In addition, you need to save your legs for the bike and run.

I never had a coach but I was fortunate that several people offered advice and suggestions while I trained. Most of these were strangers that just saw me not doing things right.

Just two cents from a (very) experienced swimmer...

... The rest of us use what's called a two-beat kick, which essentially doesn't look like kicking at all. It's very efficient (in fact, the only way for me to get my heartrate UP when I'm swimming is to start kicking more, or do a different stroke).
...

I've seen this phrase "two beat kick" and others like it ("four beat", "six beat") a few times in various places. What do they mean?

I'm just now aware enough of my kicking that I can tell if I'm bicycling and switch to a more from-the-hip style, but it's still something I have to consciously monitor and control. Regardless of what my legs are doing, it's unconnected to what the rest of my body is doing, which is probably another area for improvement. I don't have a clue how kick timing is related to the rest of the stroke, but it seems like it ought to be somehow.

Chris, I may be out in left field on this one....here goes.
In the Total Immersion video, they teach one kick per stroke. This may be a "two beat kick" as you kick twice, one for each arm stroke. H20Chick should probably clarify.

I don't mean to be negative...but maybe you could take up an armchair quarterback position if things don't workout. Good luck though!

Re: two beat kick - think of it kind of like running and swinging your arms, but instead, it's the opposite in terms of which limbs are doing the work. When you run, your arms swing each time you step - opposite arm with opposite leg. A two-beat kick is the same idea. With each arm stroke, you execute one kick. The purpose is to maintain body position and not let the legs and hips drop, plus to get some hip rotation in your stroke. Four-beat is twice as many kicks per stroke and six-beat is even faster. You want to avoid doing that unless you're sprinting.

Chris, we really ought to swim together sometime... it's a lot easier than typing it out! :)

The difference in target cadence between the sports is fascinating. My current run cadence is about 160 steps (80 left, 80 right) per minute, with an equal number of arm swings; I'm currently working to get this a bit faster. My bike cadence is now 85-100 cycles per minute and is faster than it used to be.

My current stroke rate on an easy swim is 16-17 left/right pairs per 25 yards, which currently takes about 25 seconds. If I understand your explanation of a two beat kick, my kick rate should match my stroke rate, but it's currently much faster than that, probably randomly varying between a four and a six beat kick. I'm usually so focused on what every other part of my body is doing I simply don't have any spare cycles to consistently pay much attention to what my legs are doing. Perhaps if I slowed my kick down and controlled it a bit better, I'd probably have more energy later in the swim, which might even make me faster.

As for swimming together sometime H2O, I would get a lot out of that. I'll email you to see what we can arrange. Thanks.

Just another opinion...I don't have a background in running or swimming but I have seen a lot of personal improvements in the past couple years. For running, I suggest the book Chi Running. If you are a heel striker, landing with a flat foot and increasing your cadence will work wonders. For swimming, I echo the suggestions of the TI DVD. Also check out the site www.swim.about.com. There are a lot of useful tips and links to swim videos that you can download.

I have found that going harder in your swim will only slow you down if you are a novice. Slow everything down (kick, stroke, breathing) and pay attention to what you are doing. My TI coach suggested a drill called 'pause swimming' that has been very helpful in self-analyzing flaws in technique. Essentially, you swim normally but take a stroke every 2 seconds. This gives you time to realize where your hand is, when to rotate your hips/shoulders, where your hand enters the water, etc. Do this at a very relaxed pace and focus on a different aspect for 5-10 laps before moving on. Between each set of 'pause swimming' swim a few laps normally and count your strokes per length. Set a goal of 20 strokes (# times your hand enters the water) per 25 meter length. When that is attained, reset your goal to 18/length. Decent swimmers have no trouble getting to 16 or less. After a set of counting strokes, go back to pause swimming with a different focus.

The typical type A triathlete will be reluctant to ease back on the effort (especially in his/her weakest event) but until you do, your swim times will improve only slightly and that at the expense of extreme effort (which will cost you dearly when you get out of the water).

What am I doing wrong that with more training I can't keep up?

#1 Don't compare yourself to others

#2 Focus on building endurance and skill over time - a quick fix is just that...if it is really going matter it may be something only you can measure and understand. Improvements take time, hard work and perseverance.

#3 There is also the realization that some individuals are just gifted athletes and some are not. I'm one of those who have absolutely no natural talent. What I do have is a NEVER QUIT attitude and a very dedicated work ethic. It has taken me to the Boston Marathon 4-times and the Ironman Triathlon World Championships in Hawaii 3-times. I have to practically sweat blood to get what I get and I have to put a ton of lonely hours and miles in each day, each week, year round in some awful weather conditions at times... and I have done it for over 25-years. Experience can give you strength.

#4 You have to experience some bad training days to really appreciate the ones that feel effortless. Racing is the same - you have to crash and burn a few times to understand you limits and understand how bad you want it the next time you race.

#5 Set short term goals 1-3 years and long term goals 5-10 years.

#6 Swiming is a very small part of the Triathlon - focus on a quality program that addresses the whole package: Swim, Bike, Run, Strength training, nutrition, rest days, etc... A good friend of mine was a National Class College swimmer and can finish the 2.4 swim in Hawaii in the top 25 at the age of 43 and has finished as high as #1 in Canada in the swim and #15 in Hawaii. Our biking is very close and I have a faster marathon PR - but he can put the package together much better than I and has done several sub 10-hour Ironman events...where my IM PR almost 2-hours more.

[QUOTE=MHR]#1 Don't compare yourself to others

/QUOTE]

Say it again!

And this is what I like so much about triathlon. Except for the super-elite, everybody out there is competing against themselves. The person you most want to beat is that guy that you used to be, whether it was last race or last year or back when you were a bon-bon eating couch surfer.

And we're all in it together.